Is cryptomining the smart way for Europe to warm their homes this winter?

[Wh0_Am_1]

Preface: Now I know that as this has to do with cryptomining and what not this may not fly with every audience, but this is my proposed solution for a problem.

 

 

For reasons quite well known to the populace, Europe is having difficulties sourcing natural gas this winter to warm their homes.  

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Europe and Germany have all but accepted an energy crisis this winter after a drastic reduction in gas flow

As a result of this sales of space heaters have sky rocketed.

 

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German consumers are swarming to shops to buy electric heaters as fears of a true gas shortage

This is leading to a shortage of space heaters.

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"There has been a huge increase in sales of electric heaters in the last two months and the heaters [we] have on hand are running out," said Frank Doring

So this is my proposed solution, what if instead as computers are basically space heaters. With the current decrease in GPU prices, what if European consumers were to start purchasing gaming or mining rigs and start cryptomining to heat their homes, now I know that this would only work for the savvy consumer, and that rigs are a whole lot more expensive than space heaters, but the rigs would in part pay themselves off by doing work that pays itself of to some extent, and may potentially be able to game, I mean theoretically it should be easy as one would only need to set up the rig and configure Nicehash after booting into their OS (which for in windows takes ~15 min?)

 

(Note: this post will most likely be edited as it is not a final product and just an idea I hastily cobbled together before heading to bed)

Edit: Due to the technical hurdle and the relatively low reliability (because computers do crash) such a solution would not be for the faint of heart, I am not proposing that everyone implement such a solution. My main goal was to propose a solution that may allow some users to make gains (or just minimize losses) in this difficult year. And if people are going to be paying an arm and a leg for power anyway, it may be worth putting that power to good use.

[LWM723]

No, a space heater is much more efficient at heating. It puts out much more heat than a pc.

[Kilrah]

5 minutes ago, LWM723 said:

No, a space heater is much more efficient at heating. It puts out much more heat than a pc.

A PC's consumption is 100% converted to heat, just like a space heater. 

Space heater might be more powerful, sure, but you can just add more PCs if that's what you need. 

 

As to OP, no since there's just as much talk about electricity shortage. Last thing you want is more of the energy used for heating to come from electricity, and if it does it should come from a heat pump that needs 1/3rd of the electricity supply. Permanent purely resistive home heating has been banned for a while here for good reasons.

 

16 minutes ago, Wh0_Am_1 said:

With the current decrease in GPU prices

You realise that would make the prices skyrocket instantly again, right?

[Wh0_Am_1]

Just now, LWM723 said:

No, a space heater is much more efficient at heating. It puts out much more heat than a pc.

Quite literally 99%+ of the power that a PC uses in one way or another released as heat, though by nature PCs do tend to use less power, unless you go high end, or increase your component count to increased power consumption. It's more an idea floated for those who want another reason to quire a PC or want to crypto mine, because when you think about it the primary cost of mining is power, and if you were going to use that power any way, may as well put it to work.

[Wh0_Am_1]

7 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

A PC's consumption is 100% converted to heat, just like a space heater. 

Space heater might be more powerful, sure, but you can just add more PCs if that's what you need. 

 

As to OP, no since there's just as much talk about electricity shortage. Last thing you want is more of the energy used for heating to come from electricity, and if it does it should come from a heat pump that needs 1/3rd of the electricity supply. Permanent purely resistive home heating has been banned for a while here for good reasons.

There are already efforts being made to produce more electricity such as bringing online old power plants, and whatnot. Thing is that the heat has to come from somewhere, and if you can't use natural gas furnaces, then the grid is likely the only option.  Also heat pumps are not powerful enough to handle European winters efficiently. 

  

7 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

You realise that would make the prices skyrocket instantly again, right?

Yes.

 

[LWM723]

Well, when it's -30 I'll be nice and warm with my heater and you'll be freezing you ass off with your pc.

[porina]

If the goal is to primarily produce heat, then PCs are no worse than a resistive heater. I use this myself, since gas heating in my home is beyond repair and I chose not to replace it.

 

The thing to consider is I use what I have, not buy specifically for it. If mining is the application of choice, efficiency will affect the return, but consider that an extra rather than the goal.

 

Also consider it doesn't have to be mining. You could do folding for example, or any other distributed computing project that might lead to more interesting results than mining. You generally wont get paid for it, so see it like charity while you're heating yourself.

[Needfuldoer]

No. Resistive electric heating is one of the most energy intensive, least economical ways to heat a space. 

 

1 hour ago, Wh0_Am_1 said:

Also heat pumps are not powerful enough to handle European winters efficiently. 

Going to need a citation on that one. 

 

I'm in New England and my Mitsubishi H2i system hasn't missed a beat. It replaced electric baseboards, and my winter power bill dropped by more than half while keeping my place noticeably warmer. Even when it was below zero (Fahrenheit) and working hard, it still had a coefficient of performance of around 2.5. (Basically meaning it was running at 250% the efficiency of resistive electric heat.)

 

As I understand it, heat pumps have been common in Europe for years but are only just taking off in 'Murica.

 

EDIT: There's still a lot of hearsay FUD around heat pumps because the ones they had in the 70s weren't great. (Apparently technology can't improve over the course of 50 years?)

Edited August 21, 2022 by Needfuldoer

[tikker]

1 hour ago, LWM723 said:

Well, when it's -30 I'll be nice and warm with my heater and you'll be freezing you ass off with your pc.

Heat is heat. It doesn't matter if it's a 300 W resistive space heater dumping that 300 W in the air or a 300 W GPU, which for all intents and purposes is also a resistive load. You are putting the same amount of heat into the surrounding air.

1 hour ago, Wh0_Am_1 said:

Also heat pumps are not powerful enough to handle European winters efficiently.

Last winter here in the Netherlands (coastal) was a joke. The average temperature was 5 C and we didn't have a single day that stayed below freezing (at the national reference station). From what I've read the coolant used in heat pumps apparently boils at -15 C, so temperatures above that will stil allow it to generate heat at the cost of using more power.

34 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

As I understand it, heat pumps have been common in Europe for years but are only just taking off in 'Murica.

In the Netherlands they're even becoming mandatory in a few years for new houses or when you replace your CV.

[fUnDaMeNtAl_knobhead]

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

A PC's consumption is 100% converted to heat, just like a space heater. 

Space heater might be more powerful, sure, but you can just add more PCs if that's what you need. 

 

As to OP, no since there's just as much talk about electricity shortage. Last thing you want is more of the energy used for heating to come from electricity, and if it does it should come from a heat pump that needs 1/3rd of the electricity supply. Permanent purely resistive home heating has been banned for a while here for good reasons.

 

You realise that would make the prices skyrocket instantly again, right?

My brain has literally 1 brain cell or even none if my theory of me being a knob is correct but isnt heat generated by pc componets a product of inefficencies? SO the leftover energy gets converted into heat? I may be wrong but if a pcs consumpiiton is 100 percent converted into heat i dont get why laptops over the last 5 years have gotten slimmer (but again im a knob)

 

Pls validate me i have a huge ego for a knob

[tikker]

24 minutes ago, fUnDaMeNtAl_knobhead said:

My brain has literally 1 brain cell or even none if my theory of me being a knob is correct but isnt heat generated by pc componets a product of inefficencies? SO the leftover energy gets converted into heat? I may be wrong but if a pcs consumpiiton is 100 percent converted into heat i dont get why laptops over the last 5 years have gotten slimmer (but again im a knob)

 

Pls validate me i have a huge ego for a knob

Yes leftover energy gets converted into heat. Laptops have gotten slimmer, but if you've ever touched the bottom of one that has been going full power for a bit you'll notice that they are quite hot to the touch. Resistance from electrical components generates heat. Rub your hands together, for example, and you'll notice they get hotter if you press them together harder. A filament light bulb is basically a giant resistor. Current flows through the wire, it has resistance, the wire heats up, part of the energy is released as visible light and the rest dissipated as heat.

 

In chips everything is significantly smaller, but the same idea applies. A small bit of energy is used for the actual logic of all the transistors and what not in the chip, a small bit is used to carry a signal to the display and a small bit is emitted as light from the various LEDs. The rest is all dissipated as heat because all the components in the circuit have a resistance and any energy that's left after you have done what you wanted to do goes into heating the components, because it has nowhere else to go.

[Arika]

So you will have problems with gas....so everyone is going out and buying space heaters....i suspect you will end up with problems with your electricity then.

[Coaxialgamer]

Me thinks you're unlikely to generate enough crypto to offset whatever wear and tear to hardware you end up creating. Not to mention that a PC might replace ONE small space heater, but is unlikely to produce enough heat to actually heat a home.

 

You want my advice? Get a heat pump. The energy savings from cutting your electrical heating bill by 60-70% will likely far exceed whatever's you'll earn mining crypto (or just running a resistive heater).

If you don't already have one, it's still a smart investment, given both future energy policy and the fact that many units double as AC units.

 

Heat pumps can also be used to supplement a gas heating system, so it's also a good way to cut down on gas consumption for heat.

 

Imo, given that I'm residing in an apartment, I fully plan on leaching off the heat of other residents (those suckers won't even know what hit them).

[Sauron]

Computer parts are much more expensive than heaters. By the time you offset the cost by participating in the scam that is cryptocurrency mining you'll be old.

[Thaldor]

PC parts are as bad as nothing as thermal masses, for actually cold winter (-20-40C) and energy crisis you don't even want heat pump, you want convection heater. As in the old style metal thing with just air passing through it or filled with oil. That thermal mass means that if there is going to be rolling blackouts to conserve electricity you aren't instantly relying on the insulation of your house but you have something that will stay warm and release that heat for couple of hours even without having power.

 

Learn to use the insulation of your house. This is something so many people are just not getting especially during summer heats. Simple rules: Heat and cool when possible and otherwise try to conserve the temperature.

During winter let sunshine in and let it warm your house as much as possible and do not open doors and windows if not necessary. Even on room scale, if you don't need to spend time in your bedroom during the day, close the door and keep it shut, the heater will keep it warm and if there's a blackout and at the same time you come home from grocery shopping and need to keep your front door open to bring bags in, the inside door to your bedroom will keep the heat in there and you save energy by not having to heat it up again. If you have bigger house you can also consider do you really need all the rooms heated or can you leave some rooms cold and heat only when needed.

Same in summer, your house is insulated, cool it down during nights and when the outside temperature is lower and shut the doors and windows during the heatwave and try to keep the sunshine outside because that heats things up and you don't want that.

 

And for real, if people are scared that the gas will be regulated and they are running and buying space heaters to cover that gas heating, there will be electricity regulation and most likely rolling blackouts to conserve the energy. Now not only your problem will be that you are missing some heating but you are missing all of the electric home appliances and you really should consider that more than the heating. Heating house isn't that hard and keeping the heat in isn't rocket science but if you have couple decades old fridge and you need to be 2 hours without electricity, you better hope that fridge is still in good condition because those 2 hours will be a long time without the compressor to cool the insides. Getting candles and other non-electricity depending light sources and possibly small heat sources is very much good forward thinking and that small but good (you still have time to do the research to find the best suitable for you) solarpanel to charge powerbanks is good idea. It's also recommended to find out what you can eat and especially how and what you can cook without electricity.

[Wh0_Am_1]

4 hours ago, tikker said:

Yes leftover energy gets converted into heat. Laptops have gotten slimmer, but if you've ever touched the bottom of one that has been going full power for a bit you'll notice that they are quite hot to the touch. Resistance from electrical components generates heat. Rub your hands together, for example, and you'll notice they get hotter if you press them together harder. A filament light bulb is basically a giant resistor. Current flows through the wire, it has resistance, the wire heats up, part of the energy is released as visible light and the rest dissipated as heat.

 

In chips everything is significantly smaller, but the same idea applies. A small bit of energy is used for the actual logic of all the transistors and what not in the chip, a small bit is used to carry a signal to the display and a small bit is emitted as light from the various LEDs. The rest is all dissipated as heat because all the components in the circuit have a resistance and any energy that's left after you have done what you wanted to do goes into heating the components, because it has nowhere else to go.

The only power that a computer uses that does not produce heat in the immediate vicinity is whatever power is sent througj a network cable or emf, even the light will radiate out and then get absorbed by an object as heat, and the air from the fans will turn into heat via friction.

[8tg]

Anyone who thinks the solution to anything is crypto mining should be gently placed somewhere in the middle of the ocean.

 

My solution to Europe being cold is to just suck it up nerds, what’s the coldest it even gets in Central Europe?  I can maybe understand Northern Europe since it can regularly drop below freezing there but places like Germany, France, other meme nations inferior to America, it barely touches freezing there. Just put a hat on.

[Sauron]

7 minutes ago, 8tg said:

I can maybe understand Northern Europe since it can regularly drop below freezing there but places like Germany, France, other meme nations inferior to America, it barely touches freezing there.

Paris regularly gets to -10C in the winter, plus both germany and france extend from central europe to northern europe meaning much of their territory gets quite cold. purchase a map, americans.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

7 hours ago, fUnDaMeNtAl_knobhead said:

My brain has literally 1 brain cell or even none if my theory of me being a knob is correct but isnt heat generated by pc componets a product of inefficencies? SO the leftover energy gets converted into heat? I may be wrong but if a pcs consumpiiton is 100 percent converted into heat i dont get why laptops over the last 5 years have gotten slimmer (but again im a knob)

 

Pls validate me i have a huge ego for a knob

Laptops have can get thinner because they use less energy, but all of it is converted to heat. A 35w cpu will make 35w of heat, but if you can make a cpu only draw 25w and be just as fast, it will need less cooling and thus can be cooler.

[Ultraforce]

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure it would be less expensive even if it would be less safe to just take metal and make your own space heater. I feel like some of the old-fashioned ways of trying to help with heating would be able to work to some extent if there isn't enough supply of space heaters. Likewise, I know my grandfather who lived in northern Italy's family used the http://www.oldandinteresting.com/images/bed%20wagon.jpgbed wagons to keep the bed warm though they do have risk of fire which was particularly worrying as during the war he was able to take oil from a downed plane and hided it under his bed. Basically, I feel like there are a lot of alternatives that take advantage of past innovations in heating houses before wasting electricity on computers to solve math problems as a heating solution.

[Coaxialgamer]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Paris regularly gets to -10C in the winter, plus both germany and france extend from central europe to northern europe meaning much of their territory gets quite cold. purchase a map, americans.

Paris hasn't seen consistent-10°C temperatures in years, even at night. When we do get those temps, it typically doesn't last more than a day or two.

 

Last winter we barely even went below freezing temps at all, let alone -10°C. I should know, I live there.

[Sauron]

14 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Paris hasn't seen consistent-10°C temperatures in years, even at night. When we do get those temps, it typically doesn't last more than a day or two.

 

Last winter we barely even went below freezing temps at all, let alone -10°C. I should know, I live there.

just looking at the averages... maybe it's not consistent across paris? I know it covers a very large area. Still, parts of France and Germany are definitely to be considered northern Europe.

[Guest]

Just bottle up the heat you have now and save it for later.

[Kilrah]

11 hours ago, Wh0_Am_1 said:

Also heat pumps are not powerful enough to handle European winters efficiently. 

That's a common misconception, but nowadays even the worst will still be more efficient than a resistive heater, and the best can be 3x or more even at about -15°C.

 

 

  

10 hours ago, fUnDaMeNtAl_knobhead said:

I may be wrong but if a pcs consumpiiton is 100 percent converted into heat i dont get why laptops over the last 5 years have gotten slimmer (but again im a knob)

Because through improvements the energy needed for a given amount of computation becomes lower. It all still comes out as heat, just less of it is needed.

[OrdinaryPhil]

You'd be better off just burning your cash in a fire pit. Crypto is a terrible investment atm so you'd be paying tons of money for PC to just waste time farming for useless digital currencies.

There are lots of ways to heat your home. The most common is a simple fireplace. If you don't have a fireplace, look for an infra-red heater, they are decently efficient as well.