Colour Accurate TN vs IPS Monitor

[TechMasterMind]

So anyone can tell you IPS monitors *generally* have "better colours" compared to TN but what exactly does that mean? Like if I find an IPS monitor that covers 98% of sRGB and a TN that does the same, are they equal in that respect? Or will the IPS still somehow be better? And in the case of a TN panel - if the TN panel monitor has a 1ms GTG response time and the IPS monitor has the same rating, are they equal in that respect or is a TN panel still going to be quicker?

 

Basically, I want a monitor that is fast (priority) but is also as close to covering 100% of sRGB as possible and if an IPS monitor can actually genuinely reach 1ms without ultra low motion blur or anything and both monitors are 165hz, same resolution, freesync etc. then I'll take the more colour accurate one. However I just don't know if there is more to having "better colours" or a "faster panel" than colour accuracy and refresh rate and response time (or atleast the GTG response time on the spec sheet).

 

Edit: people seem not to understand this post: *ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL* will the exact same specced IPS and TN panels be different in colours or response time and please please do not tell me "I will know the difference when I see it".

I don't want anecdotes from people who have almost certainly been looking at wildly differently specced TN and IPS monitors, I want to know imperically what difference is causing TN panels to lag behind IPS monitors even with the same specifications if they infact do lag behind.

[Andrewtst]

TN panel is the cheapest and worst panel, the only goods is fast respond, manufacturer manage to sell it expensive because eSports user only need fast respond time.

 

Others than fast respond time, nothing good on TN and TN cannot be accurate in colors, that is hardware limit.

 

This article give you a summary on TN panel - https://www.sharpmeg.com/advantages-and-disadvantages

[Tan3l6]

Color space and vibrancy/saturation i think are quite different.

I just know by experience that IPS panel monitors tend to have colers better saturated, even when looking straight at the monitor. And when viewing from an angle the TN, every TN the colors start to shift very rapidly. 

Anyway, I don't have much other knowledge than from experience. Someone might be able to describe the differences at more detail.

 

Color accuracy I hear is achieved with a calibrator, don't know anything about that process -  never needed to use a calibrator.

[TechMasterMind]

Just now, Tan3l6 said:

Color space and vibrancy/saturation i think are quite different.

I just know by experience that IPS panel monitors tend to have colers better saturated, even when looking straight at the monitor. And when viewing from an angle the TN, every TN the colors start to shift very rapidly. 

Anyway, I don't have much other knowledge than from experience. Someone might be able to describe the differences at more detail.

 

OK, on what you do seem to know though, how would a colour have more "vibrance" on one monitor to another? Surely, when veiwing straight on, they are both getting the same freqencies to your eyes if they are reproducing the colours as accurately as each other? Could you describe further what you mean?

[Andrewtst]

2 minutes ago, TechMasterMind said:

OK, on what you do seem to know though, how would a colour have more "vibrance" on one monitor to another? Surely, when veiwing straight on, they are both getting the same freqencies to your eyes if they are reproducing the colours as accurately as each other? Could you describe further what you mean?

Go get a decent IPS, then you will know.

 

Word cannot describe how bad TN are. 

[TechMasterMind]

4 minutes ago, Andrewtst said:

TN panel is the cheapest and worst panel, the only goods is fast respond, manufacturer manage to sell it expensive because eSports user only need fast respond time.

 

Others than fast respond time, nothing good on TN and TN cannot be accurate in colors, that is hardware limit.

Well I don't need a TN panel to be more accurate than the most accurate IPS panel, I just want 100% sRGB which TN panels can certainly do. Unless there is some other way of measuring how "good" the colours are on a monitor? So I would be interested in what exactly is this hardware limit is? What causes TN panels to not be able to produce colours as well as a similarly colour accurate IPS monitor?

[Tan3l6]

4 minutes ago, TechMasterMind said:

OK, on what you do seem to know though, how would a colour have more "vibrance" on one monitor to another? Surely, when veiwing straight on, they are both getting the same freqencies to your eyes if they are reproducing the colours as accurately as each other? Could you describe further what you mean?

 I really think there are more knowledgable forum users. All I can say is - best under any angle most IPS panel monitors. TN has in these times basically no advantages besides being the cheapest. TN used to be fastest (for gaming), but now IPS has reached the speeds also.

[PDifolco]

TN are the worst

VA have better contrast/luminosity less accurate colors

IPS have good color bad constrast

OLED/QD-OLED has good color and contrast

[Andrewtst]

2 minutes ago, TechMasterMind said:

Well I don't need a TN panel to be more accurate than the most accurate IPS panel, I just want 100% sRGB which TN panels can certainly do. Unless there is some other way of measuring how "good" the colours are on a monitor? So I would be interested in what exactly is this hardware limit is? What causes TN panels to not be able to produce colours as well as a similarly colour accurate IPS monitor?

Due the the hardware limit, they just cannot display out the suppose color even it manage to reach 100% sRGB.

TN tend to greyish, dull (if compare with IPS or VA), the lifeless color even on straight view. Not clear, unsharp text.

 

Also TN can make certain people eye tired and I will tear when I look at the TN more than 15 mins.

[TechMasterMind]

1 minute ago, Andrewtst said:

Go get a decent IPS, then you will know.

 

Word cannot describe how bad TN are. 

I'm not talking about the average TN vs IPS monitor, I am talking about TN and IPS monitors with the same specifications, I would need a more imperical difference I could point to before completely dismissing IPS panels, rather than simply peoples anecdotal experiences which will almost certainly be will wildly differently specced IPS and TN panels.

[Tan3l6]

4 minutes ago, TechMasterMind said:

I'm not talking about the average TN vs IPS monitor, I am talking about TN and IPS monitors with the same specifications, I would need a more imperical difference I could point to before completely dismissing IPS panels, rather than simply peoples anecdotal experiences which will almost certainly be will wildly differently specced IPS and TN panels.

It comes down t o comparing actual models, not just IPS vs TN, when considering buying a new monitor anyway.

Though today I raelly can't find a reason why opt to TN. It's not bad if watching straight on, but otherwise as mentioned before - colors shift very noticably when viewing in any other angle than straight on.

[Andrewtst]

6 minutes ago, TechMasterMind said:

I'm not talking about the average TN vs IPS monitor, I am talking about TN and IPS monitors with the same specifications, I would need a more imperical difference I could point to before completely dismissing IPS panels, rather than simply peoples anecdotal experiences which will almost certainly be will wildly differently specced IPS and TN panels.

It is same, you get the most high-end TN panel also same, and also cannot compare with normal IPS (not high-end) panel.

 

Because bad thing can't be good. The technology in TN is just bad as it is.

 

Plenty YouTube show you the differences, you can just get to know from there. VIew it using IPS panel, VA panel or OLED Panel, if you don't have any, view it using your mobile phone for view the exact issue on TN vs others panel.

 

They is no reason get TN panel anymore, faster respond time? IPS also manage to do it now, even some high-end VA panel manage to do it.

[TechMasterMind]

Just now, Tan3l6 said:

It comes down t o comparing actual models, not just IPS vs TN, when considering buying a new monitor anyway.

Though today I raelly can't find a reason why opt to TN.

OK, I mean, I can't really look at every monitor individually but I get the impression from your answer that better colour specs will be reflective of a better monitor? Even if it is TN vs IPS?

And I mean, TN panels could be faster, so many people that *just* care about that would go for a TN.

[Andrewtst]

Just now, TechMasterMind said:

OK, I mean, I can't really look at every monitor individually but I get the impression from your answer that better colour specs will be reflective of a better monitor? Even if it is TN vs IPS?

And I mean, TN panels could be faster, so many people that *just* care about that would go for a TN.

Yes, that why I said TN panel is for eSports user only that never care on how the display output.

 

Many user that once use others panel than TN, will no longer go back to TN panel.

[Tan3l6]

4 minutes ago, TechMasterMind said:

OK, I mean, I can't really look at every monitor individually but I get the impression from your answer that better colour specs will be reflective of a better monitor? Even if it is TN vs IPS?

And I mean, TN panels could be faster, so many people that *just* care about that would go for a TN.

For the color "specs" theres only colors per channel usually 6 bits per channel or 6+FRC  / 8 bits per channel or 8+FRC

That depends the colors visible to user I think. 

About color spaces I'm not too informative.

 

 

But yeah, TN is dying breed - IPS has caught on even mostly with price.

[TechMasterMind]

7 minutes ago, Andrewtst said:

It is same, you get the most high-end TN panel also same, and also cannot compare with normal IPS (not high-end) panel.

 

Because bad thing can't be good. The technology in TN is just bad as it is.

 

Plenty YouTube show you the differences, you can just get to know from there. VIew it using IPS panel, VA panel or OLED Panel, if you don't have any, view it using your mobile phone for view the exact issue on TN vs others panel.

Right but *why* does twisting vs rotating the crystals make one *inherently* worse? Noone explains that. They only talk about *in general* one monitor type will be worse than another?

[Tan3l6]

1 minute ago, TechMasterMind said:

Right but *why* does twisting vs rotating the crystals make one *inherently* worse? Noone explains that. They only talk about *in general* one monitor type will be worse than another?

I think there are a lot of accurate articles in the web, concerning all of that.

[TechMasterMind]

6 minutes ago, Tan3l6 said:

For the color "specs" theres only colors per channel usually 6 bits per channel or 6+FRC  / 8 bits per channel or 8+FRC

That depends the colors visible to user I think. 

About color spaces I'm not too informative.

 

 

But yeah, TN is dying breed - IPS has caught on even mostly with price.

Fair enough, I guess I just need to learn more.

 

Yeah I agree TN seem to be dying off, but perhaps they might not ever *quiiite* leave us if some people continue to value solely response times, although the prices are so similar and hence there aren't really distinctions on the spec sheet for similar price points. The only distinction will be IPS vs TN, which, if the rest of the specs are reflective of the monitor, wouldn't make a difference but hypothetically, before making this post, I realised there could be differences that cannot be translated to a spec sheet - even if I don't know what twisting vs rotating crystals would make.

[TechMasterMind]

4 minutes ago, Tan3l6 said:

I think there are a lot of accurate articles in the web, concerning all of that.

There are a lot of articles but none of them actually give 1) the reasoning why or 2) why this would make even similarly specced TN panels *inherently* worse.

 

The articles all go on and on about how in general TN monitors are like x and IPS are like y. The best of them will mention very breifly something about whats happening to the crystals or of the monitors on the market, what they the average specifications are but never ever will they talk about *why* that is or why it makes TN *inherently* less colour accurate, even dead on.

[Tan3l6]

5 minutes ago, TechMasterMind said:

There are a lot of articles but none of them actually give 1) the reasoning why or 2) why this would make even similarly specced TN panels *inherently* worse.

I guess the techicality would blow most regular users brains.

Like translating mandarin to a rottweiler.

[TechMasterMind]

3 minutes ago, Tan3l6 said:

I guess the techicality would blow most regular users brains.

Like translating mandarin to a rottweiler.

Yeah I guess but I feel its important as especially now TN and IPS are similiar prices and TN panels are 100%sRGB and using it head on, so if you only want colours that are *good enough* and then care about speed, like me, you might be tempted to go for a TN, if hypothetically, an IPS *isn't* inherently better at producing colours head on, and a TN *is* inherently faster, then the TN with all the rest of the specs being the same, then the TN would in that sceneraio be the obvious choice. But the thing is, noone seems to genuinely know and hence we don't actually know which the better choice is, which I feel should've been covered at some point by a major tech outlet but I can't find any that has, even the more technical ones.

[Mihle]

Colour spaces don't explain everything with colour at all.

 

Colour space (100% RGB for example) just tells you that the most red a monitor can produce is red enough, far enough out if you look at a colour space graph, an the most green is green enough, and so on.

 

It does not tell you how accurate the colour is. Colour accuracy is basically that if monitor is told to show a colour that is 128 red and 73 green, and 12 blue or whatever other colour, (0-255 if 8 bit) it is actually what it's supposed to be. Two monitors can have same colour space and very different colour accuracy.

 

On a display that is not colour accurate, some mixes of red can turn out quite orange for example.

 

From my understanding, TN is usually worse on colour accuracy, but you have to look up reviews, and maybe you don't care enough about it either.

 

TN colour start to shift very fast if you don't look on it very straight on, while IPS is very good at that, while VA is somewhere in between.

 

I don't think you will notice the difference in response time between a good IPS and good TN unless you are an actual good eSports player.

 

I personally will never get an TN monitor again.

[xg32]

On 7/6/2022 at 6:39 AM, TechMasterMind said:

,

color space specified by a monitor typically specifies the outer edges of color space, the gradient is determined by bit rate and LUT.

when a monitor specifies that it is 100% srgb it's at least to that color space (capable of higher coverage) and is at least somewhat accurate.

Beware of panels that are advertised as "color accurate" but sold at a premium, chances are they are the same 100% srgb panels that may or may not be calibrated

The AW2521H is a good balance of refresh rate, color gamut and ips.

 

some TN panels are incapable of displaying 100% srgb and has a low LUT which is why the color "looks bad".

 

VA is capped out at around 110% srgb 90% p3 85% argb and 70% rec2020 which is enough for most use cases and comfortable to the eye if the user is not bothered/notice the black smearing, comes with deeper contrast too, a nice balance

 

IPS is currenntly up to 100%+ p3 100%+argb and 86%~ rec2020, most professional monitors are ips panels with 12-16bit LUT. Higher color gamut past a certain point hurts response time alot

 

I game on slightly toned down argb without a srgb clamp, so in a way it's inaccurate but that doesn't matter to me.

 

TN for refresh rate, VA for contrast/balamce IPS for color gamut.

 

Most consumers prioritize size and prize, and even then TN might be too washed out for most.

 

The reason i consider the MAG274QRF-QD the best 1440p monitor is because it has a 102% argb gamut on a 10bit panel for 400dollars, thanks to QD and FRC, before 2020, that was impossible at a higher refresh rate and  would cost at least 700usd.

 

there are also tech that try to push for higher rec2020 coverage, laser panels, double panels, water cooling etc but knowing how slow monitor tech improves it's not anytime soon for consumers.

[e22big]

On 7/6/2022 at 8:39 PM, TechMasterMind said:

Yeah I guess but I feel its important as especially now TN and IPS are similiar prices and TN panels are 100%sRGB and using it head on, so if you only want colours that are *good enough* and then care about speed, like me, you might be tempted to go for a TN, if hypothetically, an IPS *isn't* inherently better at producing colours head on, and a TN *is* inherently faster, then the TN with all the rest of the specs being the same, then the TN would in that sceneraio be the obvious choice. But the thing is, noone seems to genuinely know and hence we don't actually know which the better choice is, which I feel should've been covered at some point by a major tech outlet but I can't find any that has, even the more technical ones.

If all else being equal, then it is equal. A monitor with the exact colour coverage, calibrate to the same white point, have the same contrast, the same brightness and the same response time - will produce the same image regardless of the panel technology (minus a few quirks like slightly glow on IPS). 

 

In reality, however, we tends to choose a panel by its tech for a reason because those specs tends not to be equal. And while there's a TN that has about the same coverage as IPS (at least in SRGB anyway), they tends not to be equal in other aspect - viewing angle being the biggest issue. 

 

Some IPS may share the same terrible contrast as TN, and an ultra budget IPS can have nearly the same viewing angle with a top end TN - but even a midrange IPS will easily beat TN in that aspect and it can have better coverage of more colour spaces (like Adobe, DCIP-3 or even rec2020) while not even that slower when it comes to response time. 

 

Unless you use OLED, response time tends to not matter that much when it's lower to a certain level, and IPS had basically reached that while still offer the rest of the benefits which make them more likely to be a suprior product. But there will always be a worse IPS and better TN.

[Berinejo]

one extra thing that I don't think anyone has added is that TN panels have very bad viewing angles and are generally have a matte finish (if you care about those)