I've been defeated...

[jakkuh_t]

 

[rcmaehl]

Jasco firmware github since I don't see it in the video description:

 

https://github.com/jascoproducts/firmware

[lps2]

I know it's way too late now, but for others, Inovelli switches are phenomenal for these use cases you'd just need a separate motion sensor which they also have. For dimmers where you want to control smart bulbs, I disable the internal relay and use an automation to control the light. This means that the dedicated light app AND the switch will work. I even use scenes so that if I press on/off twice it turns on/off a whole group of lights or sets a scene. Their firmware is also widely available and they have been really responsive to the community including the Home Assistant community.

[General_Mudkip]

Video is great but some of the music is a bit too much in my opinion, especially the track that plays around ~3:30.

[Nystemy]

To be fair.

The more I see people fiddle with smart switches and lamps, the more stupid I find these "smart homes devices" to be... And it isn't just these switches that makes me think that.

 

Though, personally working with electronics engineering and manufacturing, I can't help but think that dumb switches used as a "switch" to send inputs to a controller that in turn controls the lights via relays or a dimmable LED driver would be a far more hassle free solution by a lot... And for more advanced lighting needs solutions like DMX and KNX/Dali works very well, even good old modbus is quite useful. But a Raspberry pi with a few IO expanders on the I2C bus is fairly trivial as well.

 

Integrating "smartness" into every piece in a system is generally stupid.

[Nuver]

Imagine talking to a customer service agent like that. Yikes.

[Evelen]

If anyone want to set up zwavejs2mqtt on a separate system from HA this is a way to do it: https://flemmingss.com/how-to-set-up-zwavejs2mqtt-on-a-raspberry-pi-and-integrate-it-with-home-assistant/

[Emerick_H]

1 hour ago, rcmaehl said:

Jasco firmware github since I don't see it in the video description:

 

https://github.com/jascoproducts/firmware

Yes, I'm surprised that they didn't mention that but basically if you missed it Jasco released a video some time ago directly responding to LTT (Linus reacted to it on the last WAN show), and then a few days ago they uploaded another video to announce that they finally released some of the most popular device's firmware on Github:

[Handbook5020]

23 minutes ago, Nuver said:

Imagine talking to a customer service agent like that. Yikes.

Agreed, abusing someone with no power and who didn't make that decision over the phone will not solve your issue. Be polite, they don't want to be in that situation either. Very cringeworthy.

[MaxiKevey]

Does America/Canada not have wired smart home solutions like KNX? Any wireless system WILL give you problems at some point.

[Lurick]

So many people fail to realize this isn't about flipping a switch in a room, it's about a few things, one is tinkering but two is having OTHER stuff work easier because of investing in part 1. Sure you're not going to "make your money back" on a large investment like this but being able to save on energy because you don't have to do other things like heat/cool areas of the home or not having to trudge up two flights of stairs because your kid forgot to turn off their light before leaving or any number of things happening automatically. Yes it's a tinkering desire first and foremost but beyond that I see so much blind hatred "to just flip a switch" it's baffling, why the hell do you care what someone else does to make aspects of their life different?

[Lurick]

8 minutes ago, James Evens said:

Recently had to look at smart home things and learned about DALI bus.

Why wasn't this an option?

 

It is an standardized protocol with dozen of vendors and hardware. This makes it compatible to what ever you need. Once the connection technology (e.g. Zigbee v3) is outdated you can just swap the dali 2 controller to a new product but keep all the house installation untouched/in place. If down the road a switch breaks it isn't a huge deal as the protocol is standardized so there will be a replacement available from some manufacturer.

 

Zigbee and Z-Wave are basically competing standards although both are generally open ecosystems to some extent I believe Zigbee is much moreso but there are availability issues too. Someone in another thread commented how they couldn't get Z-Wave anything where they lived it was all Zigbee and I know for others it's the opposite so it might have been, for Linus, a combination of available switches and the protocol they came in that he liked at the time.

[WhiteWolf_Kevin]

55 minutes ago, Handbook5020 said:

Agreed, abusing someone with no power and who didn't make that decision over the phone will not solve your issue. Be polite, they don't want to be in that situation either. Very cringeworthy.

I'm gonna come out in defense of Linus here. There was no abuse going on. People often mistake being blunt for being rude. Linus wasn't being rude or abusing the customer service rep. He was being blunt. And I disagree that the rep doesn't want to be in that situation. They were hired for a customer support representative position for the company and part of that position is having to deal with the BS decisions/policies that your company makes. Customer Service/Support is the first line of communication that customers have with a company. Maybe if Customer Service reported to the powers that be that customers are upset by the lack of firmware file availability then this issue would have been solved before Linus ever got involved. You can't just expect people to say "Oh, you're not the person who decided that? Okay then, there isn't an issue" and hang up.

Instead of doubling down on the BS policy of not providing firmware, Jasco's Customer Service should have some process in place for their reps to collect user feedback: "I do apologize, but company policy is to not provide the firmware files. However, I'd be happy to submit a complaint/suggestion on your behalf if you think that policy should be changed."

[ryankrage77]

1 hour ago, Nuver said:

Imagine talking to a customer service agent like that. Yikes.

1 hour ago, Handbook5020 said:

Agreed, abusing someone with no power and who didn't make that decision over the phone will not solve your issue. Be polite, they don't want to be in that situation either. Very cringeworthy.

Completely agree. Linus normally comes across as a nice person on camera, but this showed a whole other side of him. The condescension was completely uncalled for.

[Tankers]

1 hour ago, Handbook5020 said:

Agreed, abusing someone with no power and who didn't make that decision over the phone will not solve your issue. Be polite, they don't want to be in that situation either. Very cringeworthy.

To be honest that was one of politest angry customer reaction I saw in a long time. Normally there is just full on rage mode on the phone when something stupid that higher ups decided onto stomps someones plans.

[Ultraforce]

1 hour ago, MaxiKevey said:

Does America/Canada not have wired smart home solutions like KNX? Any wireless system WILL give you problems at some point.

He previously did some z wave stuff with his garage at his old home which is probably part of why he went with wireless.

 

Linus also talked about not knowing much about Smart Home stuff so z wave being used since it's what Jake is familiar with probably makes sense to some degree.

EDIT : Looking into it KNX might exist in North America but has nowhere near the presence as in Europe https://www.cepro.com/news/will_european_knx_home_automation_standard_make_it_in_the_u-s1/

Edited June 13, 2022 by Ultraforce
further reading lead to new information being found

[Uttamattamakin]

Having watched the whole thing I get why they would not initially give the firmware out.  Since most normal sane people would just buy a hub along with some switches or sensors and live within that system.  IF their product is meant to be used in that manner then they should not sell them without being clearly labeled to work only with a given hub. 

 

Sensors that are meant to be DIY friendly should be sold and supported as such. 

[Tom Tom]

@LinusTech

For sensors, I have 13 of these. Got them off Z-wave Europe shop for like 20€ each.
https://aeotec.com/products/aeotec-multi-sensor-6/

These work great for me. And you can connect them to 5v over micro USB. Just get some cheap phone chargers to put above the wall. Also get in-wall mounts, for a nice flush mount.

Just watch out for the update period, when it sends changes in temperature, humidity or so on. With as many sensors as you have, YOU WILL overwhelm the network if it's updating every second, or if the threshold for updating is to tight.

If you find healing the network, or requesting nearest neighbors takes long, stop all activity on the network. Disable any pulls or updates from the devices.  

Sometimes there are hidden parameters, like the Aeotec Multi Sensor, it has a hidden parameters, which is later updated in the firmware to be a part of the template of the device. For the mentioned Aeotec Sensor, parameter 81 to 1 disables the LED, for when it detect motion, but wasn't in the template when I added them, but could still configure it. Also did you try searching for manually adding parameters to your current switches? Sometimes they can be missing, but the functionality is there.

 

For switches. I wouldn't buy some weird ass switch with different functions in it. If it's a switch, it should do switching. If it's a sensor, let it do sensing. 

Switches, I use the fibaro ones. They go under the

https://manuals.fibaro.com/switch-2/

Although there are a COUPLE of things you need to know about switches overall. If you don't have a NEUTRAL wire, you NEED to use a dimmer switch. Or you will loose power to the switch when you turn the light on, which will then turn the light off, which will then give power to the switch again and turn it on, which will then turn off again. You get the idea. You'll get a blinking light.

https://manuals.fibaro.com/dimmer-2/

You can set it to work as a normal switch that doesn't dim. But the first time it turns on it goes through a cycle where it tests the limits.

 

You can also try out door sensors like this.

https://www.fibaro.com/en/products/door-window-sensor/

Although I wouldn't necessarily recommend Fibaro ones. If you get those, disable temperature reporting, so it doesn't drain the battery to much.

These look interesting to me, but the way it's made, after battery dies, you can just throw it away.

https://www.amazon.com/Sensative-Z-Wave-Contact-Outdoor-Installation/dp/B01NBZ65QE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

AND, if you're still using a switch, and if the peak load is high, you might partially weld the switch and get it stuck. In that case just tap the switch a bit.

 

But the MAIN thing you need to know!
Not all things work with Home Assistant! Or, not every device works with every controller.

This product does not work with HomeAssistant. Check under compatibility on the site. Works with Aeotec Z-Stick, but not Home Assistant.

https://shop.zwave.eu/products/sensors/multisensors/2711/aeotec-multisensor-7?c=187

 

You need to check that it's compatible with your controller, has the template for the device (if it doesn't, you have to manually enter parameters without them being named and not knowing the range, if it would be a slider, etc...) You might not even know about their existance.

Updating firmware:

Firmware is normally updated directly from the controller by just clicking update. You normally don't need the firmware file. My thinking is that the firmware file is sent to the producer of the controller, they then check the firmware that it doesn't break the compatibility with their controller, or if they need to update the template for the z-wave device. And then once they do the checks or create the new updated template, they will put it on their repository where the controller can then grab it and update the Z-wave device.
Still though, the firmware should normally still be available to users with a disclamer.

 

My recommendation:

Get a loaner Fibaro Home Center 3 and try it out, just don't get the lite version. You can write LUA code in it and do some complex stuff. They regularly update their firmware. But in Z-Wave I haven't yet come across a bullet proof system without issues. There's always some little bit of extra work, and frustration when you're not on location to restart the system. I just have it reboot every night, but that's because I use some really weird connections and APIs and it breaks sometimes.

[jlyn]

I have Jasco dimmer switches (46203) without the motion sensor but the other parameters seem the same as the JE 26932. The fade in/out annoys us all to now end. While I am not sure how the motion plays a factor in this, I had to do two things to eliminate the fade on my smart dimmer w/o motion:

1. To turn off the fade at the physical switch level, you need to set Parameter 16 Switch Mode to 1 (Enabled. Default is 0). This should make the switch act like a regular switch with no fade. You should also be able to manually set this parameter on the physical switch (at least this works on the 46203) by toggling 5 on switch clicks followed by 5 off switch clicks fairly quickly.

2. With Parameter 16 enabled, turning the switch on/off from Home Assistant does not respect this parameter. The only way I have accomplished zero fade is to set the transition parameter to zero on every service call. Attached are samples from both Node-RED and HA Automations for reference. The quirkiness of doing it this way is the light is "instant", but commands are unresponsive for a couple seconds as it is still completing the fade duration (i.e. if the fade normally takes 2 seconds, the light will instantly turn on, but the switch continues to think it is still fading for 2 seconds and will not accept new commands until the fade is over).

 

https://community.home-assistant.io/t/z-wave-ge-jasco-dimmer-switch-mode-only-applying-to-physical-switch/378291

[GDRRiley]

14 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Having watched the whole thing I get why they would not initially give the firmware out.  Since most normal sane people would just buy a hub along with some switches or sensors and live within that system.  IF their product is meant to be used in that manner then they should not sell them without being clearly labeled to work only with a given hub. 

 

Sensors that are meant to be DIY friendly should be sold and supported as such.

most people I know don't buy the hubs given the price, you can 99% of the functionality with an old PC or single board computer and a 10$ antenna
its a fairly open standard you can't claim to work with it and then go well we only work with these hubs

[10leej]

Linus.... Buddy, you should've bought the ones I told you to buy. In the last thread....

[WhiteWolf_Kevin]

42 minutes ago, Tankers said:

To be honest that was one of politest angry customer reaction I saw in a long time. Normally there is just full on rage mode on the phone when something stupid that higher ups decided onto stomps someones plans.

So I watched this video in 2x speed originally. Rewatching it at normal speed makes the Customer Service phone call a lot more docile than I originally perceived. So the point I made above about him not being rude and just being blunt stands even firmer now.

[dogwitch]

3 minutes ago, WhiteWolf_Kevin said:

So I watched this video in 2x speed originally. Rewatching it at normal speed makes the Customer Service phone call a lot more docile than I originally perceived. So the point I made above about him not being rude and just being blunt stands even firmer now.

i delt with a isp last year. (the bs they where pulling) i knew for a fact they where recording the call i was on. i stated with them .you lie about both the service and devices you can see on my modem. plus the few million you stolen from fed gov and refuse to replace parts around town.(that was in the news twice in my state)

the reason why your able to do this  is you got a dod contract....

 

bigger context. the isp straight up said fk you to the fire dept in my county. they refuse to install usable internet to them.

[Hypfer]

This would be a good opportunity to talk about the fact that the exact same thing is happening with Philips Hue Zigbee Lights.

There are firmware updates. Quite a few actually
You just can't get them if you're not using the official Hue bridge.

Well you actually can, but not in an official way.
Hackers managed to gain a rootshell on the bridge and used that as an entry point to reverse engineer its software to figure out how that thing fetches the firmware files.

Without the work of these individuals, you simply could not update your lights.
Why Signify does that is beyond me, considering that those firmware update files are encrypted and only decrypted by the light itself.
It is unclear how providing these files in an official way would cause harm to their intellectual property.


I'd very much like to see a follow-up video where other vendors get called out for the same BS.
Please just don't harass any more customer service personnel. They're not responsible for these decisions

[Robyoublind]

i have these light switches and i had to update them through the ge cync app