Ryzen 7 2700X expectations for memory performance? 3200Mhz max?

[BahnStormer]

I've been holding off the obvious GPU + CPU upgrade until the GPU prices get a little less silly (2024??)... but I've upgraded all the supporting hardware, so it is a very reasonable spec, other than the mid-spec GPU and still capable, but fairly aged CPU.

 

The only real frustration (other than the obvious: crazy GPU prices) is that I'm really struggling to get my GSkill TridentZ Neo memory running anywhere close to the 3600Mhz 14-14-14-36 specs... I haven't tinkered too much, but it seems to struggle with those timings at anything over 3200Mhz. I set the memory speeds via the DOCP/XMP profile and then stepped the target frequency back to 3200Mhz (I've tried most of the increments between 3200Mhz and 3600Mhz, but it won't even POST).... it's rock steady (memtest86) at 3200Mhz, but can't POST at ANYTHING over that.

 

Full (relevant?) system spec - the rest is in my sig:

Ryzen7 2700X w/Noctua NH-D15

ASUS TUF X570PRO WiFi (all latest drivers + BIOS)

32Gb TridentZ DDR4-3600C14 (2x16Gb sticks - F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA)

(less relevant?)

Palit GTX1660SuperOC

M.2 Samsung EVO970Plus 500Gb (boot drive - win10, 2021 latest patched version)

M.2 WD SN550 Blue 1Tb

2x 8Tb SATA WD80EFAX

Corsair HX850 PSU

Corsair Carbide330R case (stock intake, 2x Noctua NF-A14 on exhaust, NF-A15 on extra intake)

 

Ambient, case, CPU and memory temps are all VERY reasonable and I think I've got all the possible drivers, patches and firmwares up to the latest.

 

There are people running these memory kits (F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA) on X570's and 5000-series Ryzens with 3800Mhz+ speeds and even tighter timings (still CL14).... but admittedly at 1.5V.

 

Is this just a limitation of the memory controller in the Ryzen 7 2700X? I'm cutting it some slack as it is a CPU that was never really designed to run memory over 3200Mhz.

 

If it should be able to run that memory any faster, could somebody please point me in the direction of a good source of tweaking memory timings? (or just let me know what is reasonable to aim for)

[YoungBlade]

Being stuck at 3200 speeds or less is pretty common with 2nd gen Ryzen from what I've heard. Some chips could do better, but most couldn't. I think the recommended speed of the day was DDR4-3000, as it was basically the performance sweet spot and effectively all chips could do it.

 

Here's a period appropriate video on the subject:

 

[GDRRiley]

I'm right now at 2866 with 4x8gb 3200 C16 from Geli on my 2700x+B450m steel legend

Zen+ memory controllers can really only do 3200 with less than 16gb of ram and even that isn't 100%.

[BahnStormer]

Thanks for confirming, all... that's more or less as I suspected... on the plus side, it's given me more of an excuse to pull the trigger on a 5900X

 

FYI - for anybody who is interested in what WILL run.... with the same 2700X on an ASUS Prime Plus B450, I was previously able to run 16Gb Corsair LPX 3200 (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16 DOCP/XMP: 16-18-18-36)... they were fine at the rated speeds and I even managed to tighten the timings a little... but that was the original Samsung memory from Corsair (v4.xx).

 

When I bought two more stick of EXACTLY the same model memory (CMK16GX4M2B3200C16), Corsair had "upgraded" to v5.xx and switched the memory for technically the same XMP spec, but clearly lower performance Hynix.... it would run at the rated speed as a pair, but NOTHING tighter.... and running with all the same model number, but clearly mixed Samsung+Hynix memory (4x8Gb), I had to dial it back to 3133Mhz to get the rated timings or CAS18 to get 3200Mhz.

 

Once I realised the bait and switch, I cursed my bad luck and Corsair(!)... then promised myself never to trust Corsair memory models names again and to switch brands for the next memory upgrade.

 

To be clear, it's not "bad" memory, although single ranked, it was always able to run at the rated speeds and was VERY good value.... but swapping the hardware on the same model number is just misleading people and playing off previous positive reviews of the Samsung-based model, so that just soured my trust in Corsair... I mean that's no Gigabyte PSU level of broken trust.... but it just feels wrong.

 

As a slight aside: I ran the same memory with EXACTLY the same results on my X570, so clearly a memory compatibility / memory controller issue with running that "mixed" memory.

 

That experience is why I started looking for a different memory brand: I went for GSkill this time mostly because of several casual comments from various reviewers mentioning them as being consistent and reliable: LTT and "both the Steves" (GamersNexus + HardwareUnboxed)... then a bit of reading and the TridentZNeo seem to be VERY highly regarded, although unfortunately priced to match that reputation.

 

I'm not able to get these to move one Mhz over 3200Mhz (almost certainly a limit due to my CPU), but they're running the XMP profile "CAS14" profile 14-14-14-34 (tRC 75, CR 1T) and I've done a standard "4 pass" on MemTest86 with 0 errors, so I'm happy they'll be solid at decently tight timings and 3200Mhz.

 

The kit is the 2x16Gb "F4-3600C14D-32GTZNA", but be warned I think the price works out 50% more than the equivalent Corsair 3600Mhz C14 product, but I'd rather know what I'm getting.

[BahnStormer]

20 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

I'm right now at 2866 with 4x8gb 3200 C16 from Geli on my 2700x+B450m steel legend

Zen+ memory controllers can really only do 3200 with less than 16gb of ram and even that isn't 100%.

See my previous reply - I don't think the problem is the capacity, it's the number of chips: Zen+ can run 3200Mhz C14 with two chips fine (even dual ranked)... but as soon as I had four sticks I had to slack off the timings or the speed.

[bigbill04]

I couldn't get my new Asus x570 motherboard to get past the press F2 or Delete to enter the UEFI Bios screen after installing it. Did you run into that issue by chance. I am also running a Ryzen 7 2700X, but with GSkill Ripjaws f4-3200c16d-32gvk and a 3080ti FE

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BahnStormer said:

 

 

I'm not able to get these to move one Mhz over 3200Mhz (almost certainly a limit due to my CPU), but they're running the XMP profile "CAS14" profile 14-14-14-34 (tRC 75, CR 1T) and I've done a standard "4 pass" on MemTest86 with 0 errors, so I'm happy they'll be solid at decently tight timings and 3200Mhz.

 

 

That's mostly due to running 32gb on the Zen + memory controller.

To pass that hurdle, you can try setting your timings up 16-16-16-16-36 2T and 1.40v should be more than enough.

The IMC you could give it a bump, but I think 1.08v should be enough to start, 1.2v your limit on ambient cooling.

 

My 2x8gb G.Skills F4-3600C16D-16GTZ do 3733mhz with my 2700X

[BahnStormer]

10 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

3733mhz with my 2700X

Strange that 32Gb has so much impact versus 32Gb... I think you may have just won the silicon lottery there... seems very few people able to get much over 3200Mhz on the 2700X... that said, I might give the IMC voltage nudge a try.... as my memory SHOULD be able to run my CL14 ratings at 3600Mhz... that's technically a memory overclock (i.e. anything over 2133Mhz is an overclock) , but that's the official spec of that TridentZ.

[BahnStormer]

On 12/31/2021 at 11:13 PM, YoungBlade said:

Being stuck at 3200 speeds or less is pretty common with 2nd gen Ryzen from what I've heard. Some chips could do better, but most couldn't. I think the recommended speed of the day was DDR4-3000, as it was basically the performance sweet spot and effectively all chips could do it.

 

Here's a period appropriate video on the subject:

 

Not directly off this HUB video, but there was another linked video from Steve that was a quick run-through on how to see what type of memory timing SHOULD be possible for each type of CPU/IMC and the respective RAM.... where it measures the response rates of the memory, then calculates each setting in the BIOS.

 

 

The process has three stages:

1) Thaiphoon Burner memory analyser - http://www.softnology.biz/files.html 

2) 1usmus's DRAM calculator - https://www.techspot.com/downloads/7164-ryzen-dram-calculator.html

3) BIOS - enter the advised memory memory timings from the DRAM calculator into your BIOS.

 

One slight update in the ~30 months since that video was done: the two apps effectively link together now so step 1 to 2 requires a lot less manual typing.

 

Note that after you run the Thaiphoon report YOU HAVE TO CHANGE TO NANOSECONDS, NOT CLOCK CYCLES: it's not difficult, it's just hidden....

a) run the "read" process

b) select the report

c) scroll ALL the way to the bottom and select the one tiny line of text at the end of the report that says "

Show delays in nanoseconds

"

d) THEN you can Export the COMPLETE report to HTML and it can be imported into the DRAM CALC tool.

 

Be careful with the order of the config items - my ASUS BIOS had a few of the settings in a different order.

 

Steve seems to rate it fairly highly.... but I think I still have a limitation of clock speed on my 2700X and I suspect it isn't as accurate if you're running the memory BELOW rated clock speed: according to the calc tool, if I'm dropping my memory clockspeed from the rated 3600Mhz to 3200Mhz, my memory should be able to tighten up from the rated CL14 to CL11, even allowing for my 2700X!! (would be nice if that worked!!)

[Guest]

2 hours ago, BahnStormer said:

Strange that 32Gb has so much impact versus 32Gb... I think you may have just won the silicon lottery there... seems very few people able to get much over 3200Mhz on the 2700X... that said, I might give the IMC voltage nudge a try.... as my memory SHOULD be able to run my CL14 ratings at 3600Mhz... that's technically a memory overclock (i.e. anything over 2133Mhz is an overclock) , but that's the official spec of that TridentZ.

Well the spec of the board and memory is much higher than the IMC of the 2700x which is only 2933mhz. But, for sure has a difficult time with 32gb and high frequency, even with Bdies like you have.

 

So your memory is good, it's fast, it's just paired with the wrong chip. Upgrade too a 5600x later, and you should have better memory overclocks.

[BahnStormer]

1 hour ago, ShrimpBrime said:

So your memory is good, it's fast, it's just paired with the wrong chip. Upgrade too a 5600x later, and you should have better memory overclocks.

 

Don't worry, I'm realistic about what is possible with my CPU - I'm just seeing what's possible with the current kit. Like a lot of people, I'm kinda stuck mid-way through an upgrade that I thought I'd complete as soon as the bleeding edge price lunacy that follows a new CPU / GPU release (i.e. mid-2020), so I thought I'd be finishing this build off by mid-2021 at the latest!

 

I'm just struggling to justify any more CPU grunt for work requirements (my 5700G laptop is actually plenty!), so it would be gaming only.... and my gaming experience is limited more by my GPU (GTX1660S ) than CPU.... so I only actually "need" the new CPU when I upgrade the GPU.... and that's hard to justify at present as I don't want to feed the idiocy machine and validate the current prices.

 

Looks like Intel is coming to the party eventually, but I doubt they'll dent the current demand levels, certainly not in 2022... so let's hope that either crypto crashes or there's a new dedicated uber-box for efficient crypto mining that renders the current gaming cards being used for mining as worthless...

[Guest]

Just now, BahnStormer said:

 

Don't worry, I'm realistic about what is possible with my CPU - I'm just seeing what's possible with the current kit. Like a lot of people, I'm kinda stuck mid-way through an upgrade that I thought I'd complete as soon as the bleeding edge price lunacy that follows a new CPU / GPU release (i.e. mid-2020), so I thought I'd be finishing this build off by mid-2021 at the latest!

 

I'm just struggling to justify any more CPU grunt for work requirements (my 5700G laptop is actually plenty!), so it would be gaming only.... and my gaming experience is limited more by my GPU (GTX1660S ) than CPU.... so I only actually "need" the new CPU when I upgrade the GPU.... and that's hard to justify at present as I don't want to feed the idiocy machine and validate the current prices.

 

Looks like Intel is coming to the party eventually, but I doubt they'll dent the current demand levels, certainly not in 2022... so let's hope that either crypto crashes or there's a new dedicated uber-box for efficient crypto mining that renders the current gaming cards being used for mining as worthless...

2700X is still a great chip, I have one. Delidded it. Ran cooling experiments with a TEC, all kinds of fun stuff. It's now in my HTPC turned gaming rig and gave it to my youngest son. 16gb of memory and it handles everything fine. 

 

But for certain.... the gpu.

I picked up a gtx 980 at OCN in Nov for 225$. I'd keep an eye out for a 980 cause it'll be a faster gpu but for a better price. Them 1660 gpus still fetch more $$, just because it's a newer gen. 

[BahnStormer]

1 hour ago, ShrimpBrime said:

2700X is still a great chip, I have one. Delidded it. Ran cooling experiments with a TEC, all kinds of fun stuff. It's now in my HTPC turned gaming rig and gave it to my youngest son. 16gb of memory and it handles everything fine. 

 

But for certain.... the gpu.

I picked up a gtx 980 at OCN in Nov for 225$. I'd keep an eye out for a 980 cause it'll be a faster gpu but for a better price. Them 1660 gpus still fetch more $$, just because it's a newer gen. 

Yep - 2700X is still plenty for most requirements... memory controller is a frustration, but I'm having fun seeing how tight I can get the timings at 3200Mhz for now... so this has become "project CAS11", rather than "project 3600Mhz"

 

The CPU will be fine for a while, I think: it'll only be a bottleneck when I eventually get my hands on a reasonably mid/high end Ampere card (or LoveLace at this rate?!?), but either way, I think it'll be a while.... I'm in the UK - we can't even get the GTX1660S from retailers any more... the only option is to throw yourself at the mercy of the scalpers: eBay is £500 ($675) new / £400+ 2nd hand (~$550)... absolute blind luck that I decided to get myself a stop-gap card at Christmas 2019 and reluctantly paid slightly over RRP for mine (£230 / $310 at the time!!)....

 

These days, the only card that isn't silly money is the GTX1650 (~£200/$270)/... but most are £230.... i.e. exactly what I paid for my 1660super 2 YEARS ago.... but that's 85% of GTX970 performance.

 

GTX1660S isn't bad: it's 6Gb GDDR6 + Turing-based GPU (same as RTX2000 series)... just with fewer cores and no ray-tracing.... it handles most titles with mid/high-detail 1440P just about okay, but in any of the FPS/competitive titles I need to keep the frame rates closer to the monitor refresh (170Hz), so I end up having to settle for some lower detail settings... e.g. Fortnite :"Performance DX12, Epic distance, Medium detail" - stays at 170FPS, but High details tends to hover around 160FPS.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, BahnStormer said:

Yep - 2700X is still plenty for most requirements... memory controller is a frustration, but I'm having fun seeing how tight I can get the timings at 3200Mhz for now... so this has become "project CAS11", rather than "project 3600Mhz"

 

The CPU will be fine for a while, I think: it'll only be a bottleneck when I eventually get my hands on a reasonably mid/high end Ampere card (or the next gen?!?), but I think it'll be a while.... I'm in the UK - we can't even get the GTX1660S from retailers any more... the only option is to throw yourself at the mercy of the scalpers: eBay is £500 ($675) new / £400+ 2nd hand (~$550)... absolute blind luck that I decided to get myself a stop-gap card at Christmas 2019 and reluctantly paid slightly over RRP for mine (£230 / $310 at the time!!).

 

GTX1660S isn't bad, TBH: it's 6Gb GDDR6 + Turing-based GPU (same as RTX2000 series)... just with fewer cores and no ray-tracing.... it handles most titles with mid/high-detail 1440P just about okay, but in any of the FPS/competitive titles I need to keep the frame rates closer to the monitor refresh (170Hz), so I end up having to settle for some lower detail settings... e.g. Fortnite :"Performance DX12, Epic distance, Medium detail" - stays at 170FPS, but High details tends to hover around 160FPS

You're just chasing an arbitrary number you know.....

 

Go for the highest resolution and the highest details you can with lows at 60fps or higher and turn the FPS counter off. lol. 

 

Don't think you're into competitive gaming, it doesn't sound like it.... so quality over quantity is what you should goal IMO.

 

I'm into competitive benchmarking. So it's the other way around. Minimum detail everything FPS counter must go up. I'm looking for the score, not eye candies. Most of my tweaking with NVidia GPUs comes from using NVInspector. 

 

Gaming, running 4K on 2700X and RTX 2060 with lows close to 30fps. Games like BeamNG and Mud Runner, MSFS look fantastical! I could use a faster cpu for these games..... BUT, the kids don't complain about FPS or stuttering. So it's all good. Luckily at 9 years old, my youngest isn't even aware of what an FPS means lol. But I always hear about issues, never from lower frame rates though.

 

EDIT: In my opinion of course.

[BahnStormer]

Agreed - arbitrary number... and even getting it to run 3800MT/sec CL14 or 3600Mt/sec CL12 would make next to no difference with that CPU+GPU: 3200Mhz(MT/sec) CL14 is actually pretty solid performance - it's pretty much the sweet spot for the average 2700X, I'm just trying to get what value I can out of the hardware before stumping up for a 5900X and 3080Ti  (or possibly a 5800X3D?)....

 

It's doing everything I need for now... I'm no professional gamer, but I'm certainly a little more enthusiastic than most: the "Performance" settings in Fortnite give a significant advantage over the extra animated scenery in the DX11 and DX12 versions.... and although the odd artifact is annoying, it's nothing compared to things getting "jumpy".... once you're used to smooth, high refresh gaming, then even 60fps lows are painful and sub-120fps is irritatingly noticeable, but that's only for certain games like Fortnite (or CSGO - but that'll run 180FPS lows on an overclocked toaster!!)... if I'm playing something a little less FPS-sensitive and where I'm along for the journey, rather than rather than chasing a leaderboard (e.g. COD:Warzone), then I'll ramp up the eye candy to a point where it'll keep to avg of 60FPS certainly 40+ on the 1% lows. 

 

And enjoy the naïve 9yr old.... my 10yr old was using the HTPC for some Fortnight and Minecraft gaming while his Xbox was in another room and he was commenting how going back to his XBox was noticeably "more jerky" on Fortnite (and the render distance wasn't as far in Minecraft)... but when I showed him the choice of the eye-candy or smoothness, he decided the console (and the auto-aim) was better....  so he's happy....for now....

 

That HTPC is an old 3770K, 4Gb GTX1050Ti, 16Gb Crucial Ballistix... so I think he realises that it's not THAT much faster than his Xbox - just there's just more scope to tweak the eye candy down to make things run smoother....

 

Plus if he decides he wants that for his console, then the only HTPC I'll be left with is an older one in the family room (mITX 3570K with a GT1030 ).... I'm hoping the next time either of those HTPC's needs an upgrade I can put Rembrandt-type APU in there (Ryzen 6###G?)... which would pave the way for some pretty incredible low-profile HTPCs.