Networking the internet kind using Tmobile

[Gork]

I would love a video getting to the bottom of why internet hasn't improved much after the 90s. Its practically a long set of coax cables and hubs. Tmobile is acting like they can also be an ISP. How the hell is that going to play out though? Cells of any type have a softcap for users right? that's why frequency hopping (spread spectrum) showed a lot of promise several years ago.

But it fundimentally, hasn't improved.  Gigabyte speed fiber optic is always around the corner. Wireless doesn't need a glorified LAN party (sort of) but has other problems. If, in gamer speak) you lose line of site, then no more internet, and or spotty f'n awful internet.

Any chance for a series about Why the fuck is internet still in 2010? and not in goodway.

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 minute ago, Gork said:

I would love a video getting to the bottom of why internet hasn't improved much after the 90s.

depends on where you are, but Id say speed has gone up a lot since then.

 

But the big answer is cost. Most users don't care, and governments let it happen.

 

2 minutes ago, Gork said:

Tmobile is acting like they can also be an ISP.

They are, 4g and beyond is all IP packets.

 

3 minutes ago, Gork said:

Cells of any type have a softcap for users right? that's why frequency hopping (spread spectrum) showed a lot of promise several years ago.

This keeps getting better over time. They have gotten pretty good with lots of clients, and things like mmwave 5g makes this much beter.

 

4 minutes ago, Gork said:

But it fundimentally, hasn't improved.

Even coax has gotten much beter. Docsis 3.1 has gotten >1gbit on coax. You didn't get that 10 years ago, and thats with the same cabeling.

 

 

[GuiltySpark_]

I think you're combining cellular data technologies and wired internet technologies as if they're they are meant to be used interchangeably? My wired internet experience has greatly improved since 2010 and especially the 90's. Back then I was waiting for JPG's to load on dialup, now I can download a whole 4K movie in a minute or two with gigabit (not gigabyte, big difference) fiber internet. 

 

Also..

 

 

[Gork]

2 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

depends on where you are, but Id say speed has gone up a lot since then.

 

But the big answer is cost. Most users don't care, and governments let it happen.

 

They are, 4g and beyond is all IP packets.

 

This keeps getting better over time. They have gotten pretty good with lots of clients, and things like mmwave 5g makes this much beter.

 

Even coax has gotten much beter. Docsis 3.1 has gotten >1gbit on coax. You didn't get that 10 years ago, and thats with the same cabeling.

 

 

That's true! that is legit.  SIP vs TCIP vs just IP or something nuts IIRC. I don't  have any need or desire to go back to AOhell, dipswitch blackmagic, and Rocking a 24.4 then 57.6k  modem. that was "fun".. We now have clouds for backup. GOG and steam for games etc, modems all but a memory, their's a few odd places where modems are still a thing. I dated someone who had to use dialup purely becuase of distance and and pole rights made worse because of being on a res. 

[Donut417]

6 hours ago, Gork said:

Any chance for a series about Why the fuck is internet still in 2010? and not in goodway.

Here is what you gotta understand. Especially in the US the internet is controlled by private corporations. They answer to their shareholders. For them to install Fiber it has to be profitable. For them to install Cable internet (Coax) it has to be profitable. Thats the reason why rural areas are stuck on 1997 internet because frankly its not as profitable to install better choices. In order for cable co's to go to Fiber equipment would need to be changed in the data center, out on the infrastructure side and at the home. The cost out ways the benefit for these companies. Wireless is easy to build out and to install at the customers end.

 

6 hours ago, Gork said:

mobile is acting like they can also be an ISP. How the hell is that going to play out though? Cells of any type have a softcap for users right?

T Mobile offers 50 Mbps on their internet and I have seen speed tests suggesting you can get faster speeds especially in 5G areas. T Mobile states they may de prioritize your traffic if the tower is congested, but its advertised as unlimited. But from the reviews I have seen, the service is relatively solid. There are some negatives. 

 

1. You have to use their gateway, which lacks features 
2. You may or may not have 5G in your area 
3. You are on CGNAT as they dont have enough IPv4 addresses 
   1. You can possibly pay extra for a IPv4 static address however
4. The service is attached to your address, meaning you can take your gateway with you if you travel and expect to get service. 

The fact is if your live in rural America where you choice is 25/3 Satellite with 10000 ms ping or 3 Mbps DSL, that LTE /5G service starts looking really nice. Also some wired broadband providers do have data caps which T Mobile technically doesnt. Comcast, Cox, potentially WOW in some areas all have data caps. AT&T might cap DSL users in some areas but Fiber is uncapped. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

Yeah its definitely improved.  My friend is in Pflugerville, TX and even there he gets 13Mbit.  Its bad compared to a lot of places, but its definitely not 90s speed.

Sadly he probably wont get upgraded to faster any time soon for the reasons described above.  His parents only recently had that speed rolled out, despite the fact they SHOULD be rolling out FTTP now not more FTTC, but it is what it is.

Especially in Texas where the idea of the any kind of government oversight is considered Socialism, despite the fact things could be a whole lot better if telecom was more tightly regulated.  Although when you're living in a state where your only form of heat in the winter can suddenly be cut off for days, you'd think that would demand some reconsideration.

[Gork]

Quote

Here is what you gotta understand. Especially in the US the internet is controlled by private corporations. They answer to their shareholders. For them to install Fiber it has to be profitable. For them to install Cable internet (Coax) it has to be profitable. Thats the reason why rural areas are stuck on 1997 internet because frankly its not as profitable to install better choices. In order for cable co's to go to Fiber equipment would need to be changed in the data center, out on the infrastructure side and at the home. The cost out ways the benefit for these companies. Wireless is easy to build out and to install at the customers end.

And not only that but poloticing and drama in rural areas is unreal.  Their is a  lot of fiber her in new mexico. But no one can (or will) try to come into take over what's basically Xfinities turf, a situation that came about because of just gross deals.

Spark, Google (breifly) and CityLink have tried to get rights to use, and lease it out to consumers, wich hit a stalemate to get users some kind fiberuptic reciever box. looks like some kind alien gizmo. that plugs into your computer. I don't have any idea how it works though.

My hunch is wireless for the last mile or the whole thing is a more flexable way to go, what kind of current and coming wireless technologies are floating around to make it ubiquitous? what I meen is. Is their much now or realistically on the horizon where we aren't trapped in a cable monoply. Japan has been testing Terahertz speed, but the range on that insanely limited, why is that? just physics? 

I guess what i'm really stuck on is what's keeping americas internet from getting upgraided from a massive mishmash of everything, into a much more solid, and agile ineternet topology  so as rural, and big cities get good quality.

[Gork]

Quote

Especially in Texas where the idea of the any kind of government oversight is considered Socialism, despite the fact things could be a whole lot better if telecom was more tightly regulated.  Although when you're living in a state where your only form of heat in the winter can suddenly be cut off for days, you'd think that would demand some reconsideration.

lol omg yes: hey don't you like freezing while get around to defrosting pipes? wtf! no.

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, Gork said:

Is their much now or realistically on the horizon where we aren't trapped in a cable monoply.

But we are trapped in a monopoly. Exclusive rights agreements fucked everyone. Our with Xfinity has expired. But other cable providers are not choosing to come in to our city. Why? Not enough potential customers. Well Charter covers 8% of the city now, but I think thats only because it had to run a Fiber line to a cell site, so they decided to cover a portion. 

 

The reason you are not seeing new ISP's is because the old ones put up barriers. Take Google Fiber in Nashville. The incumbents owned a portion of the utility poles, they made it difficult for Google to install Fiber, plus Google has to pay rent for each pole they use. That drives up costs, lowers profitability. 

[Gork]

6 hours ago, Donut417 said:

But we are trapped in a monopoly. Exclusive rights agreements fucked everyone. Our with Xfinity has expired. But other cable providers are not choosing to come in to our city. Why? Not enough potential customers. Well Charter covers 8% of the city now, but I think thats only because it had to run a Fiber line to a cell site, so they decided to cover a portion. 

 

The reason you are not seeing new ISP's is because the old ones put up barriers. Take Google Fiber in Nashville. The incumbents owned a portion of the utility poles, they made it difficult for Google to install Fiber, plus Google has to pay rent for each pole they use. That drives up costs, lowers profitability. 

Good points!  They do also have a hit and mistrack record to consider now as well. But 'pole rights'  makes things expensive AF. I've read some just absurdly petty sounding things to: like what side of the pole is whos if more than one company is using it. That is if Google, Comcast and Tmobile, all wanted the same physical piece of wood (god that sounds wrong but) and even if it's one  a city put up. They will have a absurdly long and petting sounding bid war on who gets the north east and west sections. and mark them somehow. But that it's even that petty. I get wanting to know whose wires are whos . But to have to even have to  make a bid for some part of it. Over it being assigned, all things bein equal. is nuts! and it gets more nuts when yet another company comes and has to clean up everyone elses mess! I only know because of the gd nightmare stories people have told me about that!  Sometimes with good reason. CenturyLink (for example) is infamous for it's dick moves. Does your neighbore have Xfinity? well their is a high risk, that Centuary link will cut their physical cable, the come back to offer "better internet") when it was "just" a case of sabatoge, or a tech being an asshole just to be one.

I am so hoping in the near 1-2 year mark 5G can inspire people want to bring this stupidity to a halt. Hell 6G is now also getting with a bucket wishlist including some amount amount of frequency hoppy, neerly 400Megs a second each way, and (finally) real time spacestuff being asked for. I have no idea how much the growing wishlist is practical. Popularmechanics claims after that is Xgen. Ithat'd somehow scale and be infinitely upgradeable. I think who ever told the writer to run with that was on drugs. It's bad reporting for one thing. for another physically replacing stuff is done because new speeds and frequencies use entirely different kinds of transmitters and recievers. telcos don't chunk down new dishes just for shits 'n grins.

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, Gork said:

Does your neighbore have Xfinity? well their is a high risk, that Centuary link will cut their physical cable, the come back to offer "better internet") when it was "just" a case of sabatoge, or a tech being an asshole just to be one.

Thats illegal. Other companies cant sabotage other companies networks. That leads to FCC investigations and law suits. Comcast (Xfinity) is much bigger and meaner Thant CenturyLink. They could probably sue CenturyLink in to..... Id say bankruptcy but they have already went thru that, so Comcast would probably make them go out of businesses. Legally they cant stop companies from renting pole space, however what they can do is drag their feet if some of their equipment needs to be moved. But outright cutting of cabling would bring the wrath of the government down on them. As thats anti competitive behavior and the DOJ would be whipping out the good old Sherman Act. Thats the law that broke up the Ma Bell. 

 

8 minutes ago, Gork said:

I am so hoping in the near 1-2 year mark 5G can inspire people want to bring this stupidity to a halt.

Its already a thing. T Mobile has its Home internet and in some areas its 5G. Just keep in mind 5G doesnt necessarily mean faster speeds. Most of the 5G connections I have seen are well below what 5G could provide. 

[Gork]

36 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

49 minutes ago, Gork said:

Does your neighbore have Xfinity? well their is a high risk, that Centuary link will cut their physical cable, the come back to offer "better internet") when it was "just" a case of sabatoge, or a tech being an asshole just to be one.

Thats illegal. Other companies cant sabotage other companies networks. That leads to FCC investigations and law suits. Comcast (Xfinity) is much bigger and meaner Thant CenturyLink. They could probably sue CenturyLink in to..... Id say bankruptcy but they have already went thru that, so Comcast would probably make them go out of businesses. Legally they cant stop companies from renting pole space, however what they can do is drag their feet if some of their equipment needs to be moved. But outright cutting of cabling would bring the wrath of the government down on them. As thats anti competitive behavior and the DOJ would be whipping out the good old Sherman Act. Thats the law that broke up the Ma Bell. 

 

Oh it is. But they do it a lot here.  it's nuts!   look up Santa Fe NM and the history of comcast. The city practically gave them monoply rights.  Ma Bell from what I recall had some guys steal a bunch of documents. I don't remember all the specifics. Other than it was a BFD!, Xingular became it's Cell service. I can't remember if AT&T came out of that or not. 

Sufficed to say youare 200% right on all the legalities, and the legal and spirit of what they're supposed to do. How much of that is enforced is just one part of the problem

42 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Its already a thing. T Mobile has its Home internet and in some areas its 5G. Just keep in mind 5G doesnt necessarily mean faster speeds. Most of the 5G connections I have seen are well below what 5G could provide. 

Oh! I didn't know it's helping people with internet! Coolness! I got tired of comcast being a yo-yo. and are trying Tmobiles internet side. In terms of stability and speed. So Far so good. It the little cillindar has 3-4 bars out of 5.  Googles speedtest claims I can get up to 200mbs down. My own experience is it's probably not much faster than 70mbs down, but it's 5-10mbs up! I just don't get why we don't have semetrical internet.

[Gork]

Comcast is cutting other peoples cables now -_-. https://forums.xfinity.com/conversations/customer-service/comcast-installers-cut-centurylink-line-in-2-places-centurylink-charged-me-95-to-repair/602db0dec5375f08cd3cedbd

 

I couldn't find one of the many, many, many. articles showing that century link did the same schenigans. Comcast doing it isn't any better!

[Donut417]

8 minutes ago, Gork said:

Comcast is cutting other peoples cables now -_-. https://forums.xfinity.com/conversations/customer-service/comcast-installers-cut-centurylink-line-in-2-places-centurylink-charged-me-95-to-repair/602db0dec5375f08cd3cedbd

 

I couldn't find one of the many, many, many. articles showing that century link did the same schenigans. Comcast doing it isn't any better!

Keywords in that article. Sub Contractor. They dont actually work for Comcast, they are a separate entity. Contractors for ISP installs are known to be paid by the job not by the hour, as a result they cut corners and dont do shit right. 

[Gork]

9 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Keywords in that article. Sub Contractor. They dont actually work for Comcast, they are a separate entity. Contractors for ISP installs are known to be paid by the job not by the hour, as a result they cut corners and dont do shit right. 

Good point! 

[Jarsky]

On 11/28/2021 at 9:55 AM, Gork said:

I would love a video getting to the bottom of why internet hasn't improved much after the 90s.

Internet has improved drastically at a global level since the 90's. If youre talking consumer level broadband, 28.8k-56k dial up and 64k ISDN were the ubiquotous standard then. 

These days many countries have multi gigabit fiber offers. 

On 11/28/2021 at 9:55 AM, Gork said:

Its practically a long set of coax cables and hubs.

No ISP relies on coax as a back bone, and coax (cable) as a last mile is slowly being phased out in many countries. Theyre phasing it out in favor of GPON (in particular Fibre) and Wireless offerings. Also Hubs have not really been a thing for well over a decade, and communication providers use switching. 

On 11/28/2021 at 9:55 AM, Gork said:

Tmobile is acting like they can also be an ISP. How the hell is that going to play out though?

I havent lived in the US for many years so not sure about Tmobile, but what makes you think they can't be an "ISP"?

Cellular providers can differentiate their mobile broadband offerings from their mobile phone offerings. Theres been massive advancements since the old GSM days to todays CDMA & LTE offerings

On 11/28/2021 at 9:55 AM, Gork said:

Cells of any type have a softcap for users right? that's why frequency hopping (spread spectrum) showed a lot of promise several years ago.

They have a cap on number of connections yes, and especially by spectrum because of spectrum saturation. High density areas have a large number of cell sites in those areas though and different cells on each cell site typically overlap with the FDD cells from another for balancing and redundancy. 

 

On 11/28/2021 at 9:55 AM, Gork said:

But it fundimentally, hasn't improved.  Gigabyte speed fiber optic is always around the corner. Wireless doesn't need a glorified LAN party (sort of) but has other problems. If, in gamer speak) you lose line of site, then no more internet, and or spotty f'n awful internet.

Any chance for a series about Why the fuck is internet still in 2010? and not in goodway.

 

It's not. I can tell you that in every country i've lived outside of the US i've been able to get a minimum of 500Mbit fiber, and 4G mobile broadband with ~80Mbit+ 

Where I currently live in New Zealand, I can get 8Gbit fiber and 350Mbit+ 5G mobile broadband. 

 

Where I lived in Michigan I used to have 200Mbit (Comcast) and decent 4G (Verizon). I still have plenty of friends who live in the US, and have gigabit internet.

It just seems you're making over arching assumptions based on your geographical location and what's available to you. 

 

The biggest issue in the US, is also its greatest strength...captalism. Many countries regulate fair competition in this area, which differentiates wholesale infrastructure from retail. This means retail providers can get access to networks all over and provide service in areas they do not have their own infrastructure. Im not sure what its called these days but it used to be referred to as LLU (Local loop unbundling).

 

29 minutes ago, Gork said:

Comcast is cutting other peoples cables now -_-. https://forums.xfinity.com/conversations/customer-service/comcast-installers-cut-centurylink-line-in-2-places-centurylink-charged-me-95-to-repair/602db0dec5375f08cd3cedbd

 

I couldn't find one of the many, many, many. articles showing that century link did the same schenigans. Comcast doing it isn't any better!

 

As someone who used to work in telecommunications I can tell you it's quite an easy thing to do. Believe it or not, but the ground beneath our feet actually moves and shifts over time. Even if you get a schematic of where the cables were laid, if they've been there for 20 years they could easily be a couple feet away from where they were originally laid, especially if theyre an area that has geothermal or seismic activity.