Why I think Linus has had such a hard time moving to GNU+Linux, My story of moving to Linux, And how I think you should approach switching to Linux

[Roswell]

On 11/1/2021 at 7:27 AM, LAwLz said:

92.6% of Internet users do not use desktops or laptops. They primarily or exclusively use Android/iOS. 

If you think most people rely on Windows-exclusive software then you are sadly mistaken. Very few people do in the grand scheme of things even use Windows at all, much less has to use it. 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/617136/digital-population-worldwide/

 

As we move more and more towards web applications, the number of people who rely on Windows exclusive software will go down even further than it already has. 

Just a couple of days ago Adobe announced that they are making Photoshop available in browsers. It's right now a cut down version, but this is the world we're moving towards. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2021/10/26/adobe-brings-photoshop-to-the-browser/?sh=3ea024d41e7c

 

You're wildly incorrect and you're not linking what you think you're linking. 7.4% of 4.66 billion is 344 million. If you're under the impression that only 344 million people use a computer, you're way off. 

 

300 million PCs were shipped in 2020 alone, IN ONE YEAR: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/11/22225356/pc-sales-shipments-2020-growth-idc-canalys-remote-work#:~:text=Market research firm Canalys reports that PC shipments,and the biggest growth we’ve seen since 2010.

 

Do you think every PC user is upgrading every 12 months? Lol.

 

Again, start practicing what you preach and provide citations for your misinformation, otherwise you're just spewing nonsense.

 

 

 

[Vacras]

I personally feel like windows gets way too much bad reputation anyways. As a software dev I have worked with Linux and MacOS extensively which I only heard good things about before trying them. As an avid gamer I have had years of windows experience beforehand and all I can say about either of these three operating systems is:

 

Each of them is garbage. Linux is better in some aspects, macOS wins here and there and Windows wipes the floor in other areas.

 

Especially MacOS, which is often praised for its stability, has crashed many more times for me than my gaming rig running windows 10 with overclocked hardware that has changed multiple times over the last few years without reinstalling the os.

 

Linux on the other hand sometimes just feels like a glorified CLI with some UI elements to make it seem like it’s an everyday joe’s os. I strongly agree with the point being made that Linux is in many instances not usable without using the command line. Until it improves in that regard Linux will never become a mainstream os like some like to claim.

 

If I had to give a recommendation to people for setting up a new install and they want to avoid as much hassle as possible: just stick with windows. It supports so much hardware and software combinations that you will rarely run into issues when running any somewhat “normal” hardware from the last 10 years.

[Xenoprimate]

18 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I also think it's a bit hypocritical since it's very often the same people talking about how "GNU/Linux wastes your time" that also identify themselves as gamers. So gaming isn't a waste of time, but learning about OSes is? What about watching a LTT video where he buys a bunch of stuff from IKEA, unboxes it and puts it together in his 10 billionth video about putting PC components together? That's not a waste of time?

In the end, the entire argument boils down to "my hobby is not a waste of time but other peoples' hobbies are", which is a stupid argument.

Well I never said any of that. I'm not making any kind of value judgement on people's hobbies- if tinkering with your OS/desktop is your *hobby* that's absolutely fine! And certainly no more a "waste of time" than gaming or watching youtube videos, for sure.

 

But I think it was apparent that I was comparing Linux to Windows as a tool, not a hobby in of itself. Personally, I'm very much not in to tinkering with my computer- hell I'd even buy prebuilts if they were better value. I only build my own PCs because it's cheaper, not out of a love of tinkering; and I have the same mentality with my OS- I just want something that will get out of my way and let me get on with *my* hobbies (music creation, programming) and work (engineering).

 

Yes, Windows has its issues, of course- no one should be denying that- but I can not imagine the hit to my productivity I would take if I switched to Linux. Even ignoring program compatibilities, every time I've used Linux (on the desktop) I've found it to be temperamental and incomplete.

 

In fairness, there is one huge bugbear I have with Windows though- I wish it was easier to control the auto-updating. Sometimes I have renders or calculations that need to take many hours, so I leave my machine number-crunching overnight... Only to find that Windows restarted itself when I wasn't looking. Part of the reason I'm not interested in capitulation to the Linux fanbase is because I actually wish we had real competition... If Linux had 25% market share imagine how much better Windows would have to be... Just like what happened with Intel and AMD over the last 2 years! But if the Linux community doesn't want to even admit there are still issues, that day will never come.

[LAwLz]

19 hours ago, Arika S said:

except that you put them together in the same sentence, i've never had a trackpad not work on any device i've had, even after a fresh install of windows because i never keep the OEM OS.

If someone says "I want a sandwich or an apple" they are referring to two distinct things. When I said "trackpad or an obscure peripheral" I also refer to two distinct things.

If you don't understand that the word "or" means then I can't help you. Either you're pretending to be ignorant to make strawman arguments and argue semantics, or you don't understand English to the degree needed to have a proper conversation. Having a conversation with you in either case seems kind of pointless unless you change that behavior.

 

 

19 hours ago, Arika S said:

literally the wording of what i said.

You need to define it better. The majority of people in the world? Only 59.5% of the global population even has access to Internet. I assume you don't include the people living in huts in Africa when you say "majority of people".

Are you talking about businesses? Consumers? Are we including people who don't even have a laptop or desktop? Are we including businesses? Are we excluding consumers completely? The list goes on. If we are going to have a serious conversation I want everyone to stop using vague terms that they can change the definition of however they want whenever it suits them.

I want you to specific exactly which group of people you are talking about when you say "majority of people".

 

 

19 hours ago, Arika S said:

the majority of people using windows 10 would have a better experience using windows 10 than they would using Linux, whether that be because of familiarity, current use case or supported hardware.

Okay, so when you said "majority of people" you were only talking about the majority (>50%) of the minority of the population that runs Windows 10 (~1 billion devices, which is somewhere around 12% of the world's population). 

So when you said "the majority of people will be better off using Windows than GNU/Linux" what you actually meant was "over 6% of the population would be better off running Windows than running GNU/Linux".

Do you see why I want you to define things properly before we continue with the conversation? I think we need to move away from these overly broad terms getting thrown around and define things more properly. 

 

 

19 hours ago, Arika S said:

The people that complain about windows updates breaking things, or weird issues that crop up are the ones that shout the loudest, the people that have no issues, or tiny things that they barely notice are not going to post about it on the internet.

The majority of Windows users having issues don't complain on the Internet either. The average Windows user is someone like my mom or grandpa. They use it to send some email and browse the web. They don't go on the LTT forum and post about the latest update. The average user barely knows if they have gotten an update or not. They will call someone and have them repair their computer when (not if) something breaks.

Also, I never said "look online, see how many complaints there are". You're trying to make a strawman argument. You are right that users who have issues are more likely to complain, but that does not mean people who complain are a minority. You are making an assumption about how large the silent majority is and which side they are on. Not everyone who is silent has a completely problem-free computer.

 

 

19 hours ago, Arika S said:

but that also doesn't make my current experience invalid.

I am not saying your experience is invalid. I am saying your experience should not be taken as an absolutely truth for how everyone will experience it.

I have had far fewer issues with GNU/Linux than I have had with Windows 10. Does that mean everyone in the entire world would have the same experience? Of course not. But that's essentially what your argument is.

You: "I had a bad experience so therefore the majority will".

Me: "But your experience doesn't necessarily reflect the experience others would have".

You: "Stop saying my experience is invalid!"

Me: "I never did..."

 

 

20 hours ago, Arika S said:

for people that only use a browser, yes they should go a chromebook, which is what i generally suggest to people anyway.

A large portion (maybe even the majority of people) only use their browser, and ChromeOS is GNU/Linux.

So what you are saying is that you would suggest possibly the majority of people run GNU/Linux instead of Windows. Why are we even having this conversation if you agree with me?

 

In before: "ChromeOS doesn't count as GNU/Linux" because it's an easy distro to use.

In before: "The majority of Windows users runs Windows-only software" without any evidence to back that statement up with.

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Arika S said:

depends on what you define as an "issue" with windows

An issue (or problem) is something that is difficult to deal with and causes trouble, worry or something along those lines.

An issue with an OS could be, for example a piece of hardware or software not behaving as expected and intended by the user or developer.

For example if I update my OS and suddenly it deletes my home directory, I would say that's an issue. It's not something I as a user expected, and it's probably not something the developer intended either.

Someone getting infected with a virus that causes their computer to misbehave would also be classified as an issue if you ask me. It makes the computer not behave as the developer (of the OS) or user intended, and it causes the user trouble and/or worries.

Some examples from the survey includes the computer not working at all after an update, or performance issues as in it suddenly being a lot slower than before.

 

 

20 hours ago, Arika S said:

Quote

This conclusion comes from a survey of 1,100 members

 

I don't see your point.

Are you saying 1100 people are not a big enough sample size to make any meaningful conclusion from? You might want to brush up on your statistics knowledge if that's the case.

1100 users surveyed should be more than enough for a 95% confidence level and a margin of error of <3%.

 

These statistics are absolutely a good representative of the average Windows 10 user experience.

Stop trying to dismiss evidence you don't like.

[mr moose]

31 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I don't see your point.

Are you saying 1100 people are not a big enough sample size to make any meaningful conclusion from? You might want to brush up on your statistics knowledge if that's the case.

1100 users surveyed should be more than enough for a 95% confidence level and a margin of error of <3%.

 

These statistics are absolutely a good representative of the average Windows 10 user experience.

Stop trying to dismiss evidence you don't like.

`

You have to be careful with surveys like that, without having the survey information (who they asked, what they asked and how they calculated the results) that survey could be simply garbage.  

 

The survey was conducted by which? (Uk watchdog) after they had received 1000 complaints from their own memebers 2 years prior.  They do not say if they surveyed the same 1000 people, or did due diligence and surveyed 1000 random people.  Given they were all Which? members it is likely the survey is not random and thus not likely reliable.

[Arika]

54 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

If someone says "I want a sandwich or an apple" they are referring to two distinct things. When I said "trackpad or an obscure peripheral" I also refer to two distinct things.

If you don't understand that the word "or" means then I can't help you.

 

which i saw what you said as being an avoidance tactic to bring something else into the conversation that i wasn't referring to.

me: i have issues with my trackpad on linux

you: have you ever had issues with a trackpad or obscure hardware in windows? it sucks to.

 

how else am i supposed to respond to that? "no, i have not, in anyway, trackpad or anything else".

 

which then your response would be along the line of "well that's your problem, other people don't have these issues". which is NOT a strawman because that has been your go to argument for everything else i have said.

 

Since you're the kind of person who loves to call out logical fallacies left and right

Quote

Either you're pretending to be ignorant to make strawman arguments and argue semantics, or you don't understand English to the degree needed to have a proper conversation. Having a conversation with you in either case seems kind of pointless unless you change that behavior.

avoid Ad Hominem

 

 

54 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

You need to define it better. The majority of people in the world? Only 59.5% of the global population even has access to Internet. I assume you don't include the people living in huts in Africa when you say "majority of people".

Are you talking about businesses? Consumers? Are we including people who don't even have a laptop or desktop? Are we including businesses? Are we excluding consumers completely? The list goes on. If we are going to have a serious conversation I want everyone to stop using vague terms that they can change the definition of however they want whenever it suits them.

I want you to specific exactly which group of people you are talking about when you say "majority of people".

are you serious? you can't figure out what i mean? do you REALLY think i'm talking about people in huts in africa?..... literally the next part of what i wrote out, which you quoted in your next reply:

"the majority of people using windows 10".

 

So let me write this out in plain english

"the majority (meaning "majority") of current windows 10 users, would have a better experience continuing to use Windows 10, than they would if they tried to switch to Linux for any one reason or another which i've already listed out"

 

54 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Also, I never said "look online, see how many complaints there are". You're trying to make a strawman argument.

i never said you did....also where is the strawman argument?

 

you seem to be hung up on the definition of the word "majority" where i think it should be pretty clear that when talking in a topic about windows users and linux users, that the "majority" would be referring to the people in category a (windows users) or category b (linux users). You seem to be trying to catch me in some contrived interpretation of a single word and extrapolating it to something i'm not even close to saying.

 

54 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

You: "I had a bad experience so therefore the majority will".

Me: "But your experience doesn't necessarily reflect the experience others would have".

You: "Stop saying my experience is invalid!"

Me: "I never did..."

now who's using strawman?

what is is ACTUALLY like

 

Me: "I had a bad experience so therefore the majority will".

You: "But your experience doesn't necessarily reflect the experience others would have".

You: "perhaps, but my experience has still been shit and i do believe that I'm not in the minority, that doesn't make me wrong!"

 

I'm not saying it is a FACT that everyone will have the same problems i have, based on my experience, it is my believe that people will have more problems switching to linux than staying with windows. Maybe that's on me for not making it clear, my bad. But since there has been no massive exodus yet there is no data to go by, i would love to be proved wrong. But even if i am, it doesn't sweeten my experience.

 

54 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

and ChromeOS is GNU/Linux.

which is absolute semantics and you know it. which is ironic given you accused me of arguing semantics just before.

 

54 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I don't see your point.

Are you saying 1100 people are not a big enough sample size to make any meaningful conclusion from? You might want to brush up on your statistics knowledge if that's the case.

1100 users surveyed should be more than enough for a 95% confidence level and a margin of error of <3%.

 

These statistics are absolutely a good representative of the average Windows 10 user experience.

Stop trying to dismiss evidence you don't like.

As someone who deals with statistics at work on a daily basis, no, i don't see these as a good representation.

 

1,100 people polled

1,000,000,000 windows 10 users (being generous and i like round numbers)

 

the people polled is 0.00011% of the windows user base.

the article linked doesn't say anything about:

• who was polled (ages, professions)
• how the people were polled (how did these 1100 people get the survey?)
• the severity of the issues where they are deemed to be applicable (would something as simple as "my email crashed once after the update" be counted? which may not have even been caused by an update)

because if the whole point of the survey is: "to consider paying compensation to anyone who has experienced a loss of any kind – presumably of data, or time – thanks to a problem with Windows 10."

then holy shit i want money from system76 for the amount of time i've spent getting pop-os to be usable from installation

 

which makes it an unreliable survey. also i find it interesting that they didn't provide percentages for

Quote

Some folks said their PC was slower following an update, and others ended up with a computer that failed to work or boot entirely. Of those unfortunates that fell into the latter camp, 46% said they had to pay someone to repair their PC, with the average cost of that work being £67

because it might be something as simple as 11 people people had their PC brick, which means only 5 people had to pay someone to fix it.....ssooooooo 1% unbootable and 0.45% paid.

 

I'm sure you've had experiences with older people or tech-illiterate people, where you've helped them with their PC and if anything goes wrong they blame it on something you did.

 

 

but what ever, feel free to insult me again and to slap down everything i've said because it's apparently wrong to have issues with linux and to recommend windows over it

[LAwLz]

15 hours ago, Roswell said:

You're wildly incorrect and you're not linking what you think you're linking. 7.4% of of 4.66 billion is 344 million. If you're under the impression that only 344 million people use a computer, you're way off. 

 

300 million PCs were shipped in 2020 alone, IN ONE YEAR: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/11/22225356/pc-sales-shipments-2020-growth-idc-canalys-remote-work#:~:text=Market research firm Canalys reports that PC shipments,and the biggest growth we’ve seen since 2010.

 

Do you think every PC user is upgrading every 12 months? Lol.

 

Again, start practicing what you preach and provide citations for your misinformation, otherwise you're just spewing nonsense.

I specifically said "They primarily or exclusively use Android/iOS.", and that's why our numbers don't line up.

All those PCs shipped that you are talking about, those 300 million in 2020 alone, only accounts for 7.4% of active Internet users. People are buying a lot of computers, but barely using them (or using them for very specific things).

That was my argument. Barely anyone actually needs a Windows PC. The vast majority of people are just using their phones. For example India almost exclusively uses phones, with very few desktops and laptops. It's not exactly a coincident that the number of Indian Internet users went up at the same time as Reliance Jio started offering cellular connectivity and cheap smartphones.

[Roswell]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I specifically said "They primarily or exclusively use Android/iOS.", and that's why our numbers don't line up.

All those PCs shipped that you are talking about, those 300 million in 2020 alone, only accounts for 7.4% of active Internet users. People are buying a lot of computers, but barely using them (or using them for very specific things).

That was my argument. Barely anyone actually needs a Windows PC. The vast majority of people are just using their phones. For example India almost exclusively uses phones, with very few desktops and laptops. It's not exactly a coincident that the number of Indian Internet users went up at the same time as Reliance Jio started offering cellular connectivity and cheap smartphones.

You’re again failing to provide any data to back up your claims.

 

If people buy 300 million computers a year so they can “barely use them”, then go ahead and prove it. That would be extremely interesting news and I’m sure such strange behavior would be widely covered by now.

[LAwLz]

52 minutes ago, Roswell said:

You’re again failing to provide any data to back up your claims.

 

If people buy 300 million computers a year so they can “barely use them”, then go ahead and prove it. That would be extremely interesting news and I’m sure such strange behavior would be widely covered by now.

I already provided you with a source.

92.6% of Internet connections are from mobile devices. We could assume that there is a massive amount of "shadow PCs" that aren't being used to connect to the Internet, but I find that argument to be a bit hard to buy. Might as well say aliens run Windows 10 so we need to include those in our statistics. Equally hard to prove or disprove.

 

If we look at another source for OS market share then Windows (all versions combined) is sitting at 32.44%. The rest is mostly Android and iOS (with a bit of MacOS and GNU/Linux).

 

Gartner estimates that there were 235 million laptops and desktops sold in 2020.

Meanwhile, they estimate about 1500 million mobile phones were sold. (Source)

 

 

 

Most people have already abandoned the desktop and laptop market, because they don't need it. Most people just want a browser.

I really don't understand why you have such a hard time accepting this. Have you ever seen the average Joe use a computer? They basically never do anything except use their browser. 

 

 

In India, Q1 2021 was the biggest PC sales year ever. Wanna know how many PCs were sold?

517,000 desktops, 2,500,000 laptops and 43,000 workstations, for a total of around 3 million in sales.

Wanna know how many phones were sold in the same period of time? 38 million.

 

 

PCs are slowly dying because people don't need them. Even with the massive boon that is/was Covid.

More and more services are becoming web-based. Fewer and fewer people are buying PCs, or even using them (if we look at usage numbers such as Internet activity).

[OneOfYas]

Linux is just not worth the hassle and time to mess around with for the average person and is inaccessible due to it being free and reliant on a community who has no incentive to have a structured layered approach which when money is involved is an incentive, this is why people work... people who lack will be quickly weeded out.

 

Also the fact that it just takes too long to fix what should be a simple to fix thing.

[dragonfly43]

2 hours ago, OneOfYas said:

Linux is just not worth the hassle and time to mess around with for the average person and is inaccessible due to it being free and reliant on a community who has no incentive to have a structured layered approach which when money is involved is an incentive, this is why people work... people who lack will be quickly weeded out.

 

Also the fact that it just takes too long to fix what should be a simple to fix thing.

If you don't go for the latest, the newest ... distros, hardwares you have satisfying computer experience with very little cost compared to Windows or Mac.

A newbie that goes for Kali instead of, for example Debian Stable, he is buying the trouble.

[Roswell]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I already provided you with a source.

92.6% of Internet connections are from mobile devices. We could assume that there is a massive amount of "shadow PCs" that aren't being used to connect to the Internet, but I find that argument to be a bit hard to buy. Might as well say aliens run Windows 10 so we need to include those in our statistics. Equally hard to prove or disprove.

 

If we look at another source for OS market share then Windows (all versions combined) is sitting at 32.44%. The rest is mostly Android and iOS (with a bit of MacOS and GNU/Linux).

 

Gartner estimates that there were 235 million laptops and desktops sold in 2020.

Meanwhile, they estimate about 1500 million mobile phones were sold. (Source)

 

 

 

Most people have already abandoned the desktop and laptop market, because they don't need it. Most people just want a browser.

I really don't understand why you have such a hard time accepting this. Have you ever seen the average Joe use a computer? They basically never do anything except use their browser. 

 

 

In India, Q1 2021 was the biggest PC sales year ever. Wanna know how many PCs were sold?

517,000 desktops, 2,500,000 laptops and 43,000 workstations, for a total of around 3 million in sales.

Wanna know how many phones were sold in the same period of time? 38 million.

 

 

PCs are slowly dying because people don't need them. Even with the massive boon that is/was Covid.

More and more services are becoming web-based. Fewer and fewer people are buying PCs, or even using them (if we look at usage numbers such as Internet activity).

You didn't provide anything. Again, you don't comprehend what you're linking. Where in this graph do you see that 92% of people only use cell phones to connect to the internet? All you're doing, paragraph after paragraph, is providing links to internet statistics and then extrapolating information that is impossible to extrapolate. 

 

You either genuinely don't understand what these graphs mean or you think your audience is too lazy to look at it and call you out.

 

300 million PCs sold last year. Billions in the last 10 years. What do you think people do with these machines if not use them? Are they for decoration purposes?!

 

People use both PCs and cell phones, that invalidates all of the absurd mental gymnastics you're trying to pull off here. Either provide a citation that only 8% of internet users use a PC or drop it and acknowledge you were wrong.

 

[Ein0r]

I can't wait for those challenge vids. I'm a user that thinks about switching to Linux, because it is interesting and maybe a decent alternative to Windows 11. And if I ever consider the switch to Win 11 and if I have to (and want to) do a proper clean Os install, then I might give Linux a try to see if it is something for me.  But I also have less software- and troubleshooting knowledge than Linus, so I'm scared.

 

In the early 2000s, our school had two computer rooms. An old one with old machines that took forever to do anything. And a brand new one, in a brand new room, with brand new machines. But barely anyone used that room becaues all those new machines had Linux installed, whereas the old af machines ran on Windows. Sure, a begginer friendly Linux version in during the early 2ks is probably not comparable with a beginner friendly Linux version in 2021, but still.

 

Simply the feeling of "this is different and thus wrong or too bothersome to get used to" is so hard to disregard.

[Jaesop]

There's this weird idea that Linux not being a good option in every use case is a knock against it which is.. odd. If you need Adobe software? Linux isn't for you. If you need Logic? Linux and Windows aren't for you.

 

Linux will never be the answer 100% of the time. But in terms of a user who's mostly looking to play games and do web browsing, it's perfectly suited. It's also suited for a lot of professional work as well. Just not all professional work.

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, Ein0r said:

But I also have less software- and troubleshooting knowledge than Linus, so I'm scared.

Just keep in mind that Linus has next to no software or troubleshooting knowledge.

[Vacras]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Just keep in mind that Linus has next to no software or troubleshooting knowledge.

I obviously can't know for sure how much knowledge Linus has, but I am pretty sure that he is there for every major server software update or change in their infrastructure. And those changes will require a huge amount of troubleshooting so saying he has next to no knowledge in that regard is just not right to assume out of thin air imo.

[LAwLz]

On 11/4/2021 at 11:12 AM, Vacras said:

I obviously can't know for sure how much knowledge Linus has, but I am pretty sure that he is there for every major server software update or change in their infrastructure. And those changes will require a huge amount of troubleshooting so saying he has next to no knowledge in that regard is just not right to assume out of thin air imo.

Judging by their videos, their infrastructure was (or still) is awful because it was clearly set up by someone who doesn't understand the basics of it.

I am fairly sure they used for example UnRAID because they were sponsored by them, so if something went wrong they probably just called someone at that company and had it fixed.

Besides, updating software shouldn't involve "a huge amount of troubleshooting", and even if it does, it might not have been Linus who did the troubleshooting nor did he necessarily learn anything from it.

 

Anyway, I obviously can't know how much Linus knows, but judging by his comments and videos, I'd say that he most likely knew next to nothing. That might have changed now when he got a bit more experience, but even after this video series he probably only knows the absolute basics. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

On 11/3/2021 at 2:15 PM, dragonfly43 said:

If you don't go for the latest, the newest ... distros, hardwares you have satisfying computer experience with very little cost compared to Windows or Mac.

A newbie that goes for Kali instead of, for example Debian Stable, he is buying the trouble.

As a Computer Science student who couldn't even get Linux Mint to boot from the USB... I beg to differ. 

[lil5]

1 hour ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

As a Computer Science student who couldn't even get Linux Mint to boot from the USB... I beg to differ. 

- download the iso for Linux Mint 

- install https://www.balena.io/etcher/

- use etcher to burn the iso to USB

- restart with while mashing f12

- select USB as temporary boot drive

- follow graphical installation 

[Giganthrax]

On 11/2/2021 at 7:56 AM, LAwLz said:

I also think it's a bit hypocritical since it's very often the same people talking about how "GNU/Linux wastes your time" that also identify themselves as gamers. So gaming isn't a waste of time, but learning about OSes is? What about watching a LTT video where he buys a bunch of stuff from IKEA, unboxes it and puts it together in his 10 billionth video about putting PC components together? That's not a waste of time?

In the end, the entire argument boils down to "my hobby is not a waste of time but other peoples' hobbies are", which is a stupid argument.

How is that hypocritical? Most people don't switch OSes or troubleshoot OS problems because it's fun for them. They need an OS so they can get real work done or entertain themselves in their leisure time, such as by gaming or watching LTT videos. Getting cockblocked by their OS isn't a hobby or an interesting challenge for them: it's a huge annoyance and an actual waste of time because it prevents them from doing what they actually want to do on their computer.

 

If using Linux is a hobby for you, that's cool. But we're talking about actual, real world use here, and that needs to be rock solid or it's no good at all. And I'm saying that as someone who daily drives Linux for work, but still acknowledge that it's got a long way to go before it can hold a candle to Windows on the desktop. 

[Giganthrax]

8 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

As a Computer Science student who couldn't even get Linux Mint to boot from the USB... I beg to differ. 

What? How? 

[Laborant]

I am using Linux at work daily, and I am pretty confident in debugging device drivers or setting up a Yocto-Linux (embedded "distro-maker"-Platform). But even I prefer working on Windows and simply SSH into my Linux machines doing everything from the command line. Why? Because basically, every GUI that is present lacks certain functionality I expect from a modern OS. Be it elevating your rights, be it better controls over the peripheral hardware, be it the ability to install Office and Photoshop. Also, with SSH, I am not dependent on the GPU driver that often crashes, making Gnome switch to CPU-Rendering. I am paid to work with and develop for embedded Linux - and not paid for dealing with problems my Desktop Linux causes.

And no, Gimp is NOT a viable alternative to Photoshop. Everyone who says that, did not use Photoshop in the past ten years.

 

Also, I remember such elitist behavior from the Linux forums from when I was a Linux noob. It taught me to stay away from these forums, and that Linus STILL experiences the same, tells me that this decision was correct.

[Togglesun]

video about putting PC components together? 

[0xReki]

On 11/8/2021 at 4:22 PM, Laborant said:

Also, I remember such elitist behavior from the Linux forums from when I was a Linux noob. It taught me to stay away from these forums, and that Linus STILL experiences the same, tells me that this decision was correct.

I have to agree, elitists/purists etc. are terrible and just make the experience worse. 

[0xReki]

I get why stupid should work and that's why there should be usable central package manager to download all you need.
Granted in the last few years, Windows Defender blocks adware infested installers, so this isn't as much of a problem as before: those are the same people you have to explain how not to get their system infested with adware/bloatware.