Very high Water Temperatures (60°C), pump at 100% with 4 large radiators

[Arysan]

hello everyone,

 

i have a temperature problem with my new system. In idle mode my water temperature reaches about 35°C and when gaming over 65°C. my ambient temperature is at 25°C.

the pump is always running at 100% speed and all fans are at 65%. my flow meter moves very strangely (attached video).

The Strange movement of the flow meter leads me to following considerations:
- water is not moving correctly, so its temp rises
but why is the water flow so strange:

- is my pump broken?

- is my pump too weak?

- any other obstructions possible?

- anything i didnt think of?

 

My cooling Setup:

2x 480 Radiator Pull

2x 360 Radiator Push/pull

Pump: EK-Quantum Kinetic FLT 360 D5 PWM

GPU Block: EK-Quantum Vector Strix RTX 3080/3090

CPU Block: EK-Quantum Magnitude - AM4

 

Sytem:

Case: Obsidian 1000D

Crosshair VIII Formula

Asus Strix 3090

Ryzen 9 5950X

 

I hope you guys and girls can help me out with my problem

I'm open to any suggenstions or hints if i missed something

[BiotechBen]

Most blocks have microfins, if it's plumbed backwards in one of the blocks, the flow can be badly affected. And with that equipment, I wouldn't expect it to run cold, You have two toasty bois in there.

[Guest]

What inner diameter is that tubing/fittings?

[Guest]

That's also a lot of radiators.. did you prefill them as much as you could/leak check/bleed the system completely?

[Arysan]

thx for your fast replies.

 

- im using PETG 12/16mm tubing 

 

while i was wating for the gpu waterblock, i watercooled the cpu+mainboard with the two 480 Radiators and everything was fine. the flow meter was running like crazy, so these two rads should not be ostructed.
one of the 360 Rads was used in my old system and also never made any problems. the other new 360 Rad i only cleaned with distilled water but never tested it in a system before.

Just checked the CPU block flow direction: should be finde

GPU Block flow direction: doesnt matter says the instruction

[Guest]

Yeah that flow meter should be spinning like a fan.  What is the order of your water cooling components starting from the pump to next thing, next thing back to the pump?

[Arysan]

If my flow meter was just running with a constant slow speed, id just say, ok i have a lot of Radiators and hot hardware the temps are the way they are supposed to be, 

but the flow meter moves very inconstant. it stops then moves 45 degree, stops and so on.

[Arysan]

2 minutes ago, si1enze said:

Yeah that flow meter should be spinning like a fan.  What is the order of your water cooling components starting from the pump to next thing, next thing back to the pump?

thank you. thats what im thinking

 

my loop order is:

Pump with Resevoir  -> flow meter -> GPU -> 2x 360 Rads -> temp sensor -> CPU -> mainboard vrms -> 2x 480 Rads -> Pump with Resevoir

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Arysan said:

If my flow meter was just running with a constant slow speed, id just say, ok i have a lot of Radiators and hot hardware the temps are the way they are supposed to be, 

but the flow meter moves very inconstant. it stops then moves 45 degree, stops and so on.

Yeah, that thing is malfunctioning, or your flow is restricted somewhere in the loop.

[Guest]

Pump/Res straight to flow meter?  Probably the pump.

[Guest]

If there isn't a huge bubble somewhere..

 

[Arysan]

2 minutes ago, si1enze said:

Pump/Res straight to flow meter?  Probably the pump.

Yes. 

1 minute ago, si1enze said:

If there isn't a huge bubble somewhere..

 

i had this on my mind too. the 2x 480 Rads have their in/out pointed upwards, so these shouldnt be the problem. the 2x360 Rads on the other hand at the top of the case, their in/outs point down, so there could be air trapped.

Any idea how to test this, execpt for shuffeling the system like a dice?

[Guest]

If there's enough head room (outlet of pump to first component, they're rated for this), and the stuff is oriented right it should do it mostly on it's own, but Gravity is a stubborn SOB..  I always made sure the loop was sealed well and turned it like an infant baby dice gently until the air went to the res.

[Arysan]

3 minutes ago, si1enze said:

If there's enough head room (outlet of pump to first component, they're rated for this), and the stuff is oriented right it should do it mostly on it's own, but Gravity is a stubborn SOB..  I always made sure the loop was sealed well and turned it like an infant baby dice gently until the air went to the res.

its like pump -> 15cm tube -> flow meter -> 40cm tube GPU (might be visible on the picture i attached)

i turned it a liitle when i was filling the loop the, but the system i sooo large and heavy, it needs two persons to lift it.

[bowrilla]

Well, your GPU block is mounted the wrong way around and since it has a jet plate you will impede flow. I can't think of any EK block with terminals on the top of the cards that has the inlet on the rearmost port. Looking at the block at EK's website, it's clearly visible that the foremost port goes directly over the microfin structure and the jet plate on top of it. That WILL increase resistance and severly impede flow since the water now needs to get through the microfins, get trapped their (probably some turbulent backflow) in front of the jet plate before trying to get through the small slit of the jet plate. While it wasn't ideal with GPU blocks without jet plates and you'd get less cooling performance, jet plates require you to get your flow direction right.

 

According to your video, you almost have no flow or the flowmeter is broken. Since your water temps go up into dangerous territory (you run PETG ... 60°C is dangerous and might result in deformed tubes ending up with a leak!) I'd say not broken and you indeed have a huge flow issues. A D5 is fine to push even a larger loop like yours, it's designed for household heating systems.

 

I don't think you have an air bubble issue. The 2 in the front are irrelevant, they'd loose their air bubble easily since ports are up. The ones on top are also not cricitcal. Yes, trapped air might have an impact on performance but not on flow since the water sits on top of everything and the water can get around underneath is. It lays flat, there's no issue for flow. You only reduce the surface area a bit.

 

Questions now are:

• does your pump work properly outside of the loop?
• is your pump wired correctly?
• will switching to the correct inlet port on the GPU fix the issue?
• DId the high water temps damage your PETG tubing?

[Arysan]

On 7/2/2021 at 11:33 AM, bowrilla said:

Well, your GPU block is mounted the wrong way around and since it has a jet plate you will impede flow. I can't think of any EK block with terminals on the top of the cards that has the inlet on the rearmost port. Looking at the block at EK's website, it's clearly visible that the foremost port goes directly over the microfin structure and the jet plate on top of it. That WILL increase resistance and severly impede flow since the water now needs to get through the microfins, get trapped their (probably some turbulent backflow) in front of the jet plate before trying to get through the small slit of the jet plate. While it wasn't ideal with GPU blocks without jet plates and you'd get less cooling performance, jet plates require you to get your flow direction right.

 

According to your video, you almost have no flow or the flowmeter is broken. Since your water temps go up into dangerous territory (you run PETG ... 60°C is dangerous and might result in deformed tubes ending up with a leak!) I'd say not broken and you indeed have a huge flow issues. A D5 is fine to push even a larger loop like yours, it's designed for household heating systems.

 

I don't think you have an air bubble issue. The 2 in the front are irrelevant, they'd loose their air bubble easily since ports are up. The ones on top are also not cricitcal. Yes, trapped air might have an impact on performance but not on flow since the water sits on top of everything and the water can get around underneath is. It lays flat, there's no issue for flow. You only reduce the surface area a bit.

 

Questions now are:

• does your pump work properly outside of the loop?
• is your pump wired correctly?
• will switching to the correct inlet port on the GPU fix the issue?
• DId the high water temps damage your PETG tubing?

Thank you for your response.

 

so the idea that the waterflow through the gpu is wrong is interesting. mounting the block with the manual. i thought waterflow doesnt matter. if im mistaken there, this might be the solution.

- i have not tested the pump outside the loop, since i wasnt sure were to start with troubleshooting.

- the pump should be wired correctly. 

- the PETG tubes still look finde

- i will try switching the GPU in/out ports the next days

 

 

[MaratM]

it might be a blockage of CPU block, it is very easily blocked cause the fins are very thin.

[bowrilla]

10 hours ago, Arysan said:

Thank you for your response.

 

so the idea that the waterflow through the gpu is wrong is interesting. mounting the block with the manual. i thought waterflow doesnt matter. if im mistaken there, this might be the solution.

- i have not tested the pump outside the loop, since i wasnt sure were to start with troubleshooting.

- the pump should be wired correctly. 

- the PETG tubes still look finde

- i will try switching the GPU in/out ports the next days

 

 

Might have been the general manual and they missed changing that line? Looking at the closeup of the dry and unmounted block, it clearly has a jet plate (albeit not as tight as the one in the CPU block) and by running it back to front, your impeding flow without any real benefits. GPU blocks without jetplates are indeed direction agnostic- the impact on cooling performance is minimal with those. Once you add a jet plate, there clearly is a preferred flow direction through the block. I have to say though: I'd be surprised if that was the only reason for your bad performance.

 

You should test the pump outside the loop. One tube going into a buckt (ideally with distilled water, tap water will require a thorough flush). Since the distro plate ports are correctly connected as it seems, there should be movement. You can of course try to run the pump from a Molex adaptor and not from a mainboard fan header. Might also be a broken header (or broken connector).

 

You should be able to spot blockage in your blocks if there's some due to the acrylic tops but they would need to be almost fully blocked to have the temps go up that far. That would leave the radiators. Assuming you prepped and flushed your radiators well before assembly you're left with little points of failure.

 

I guess you will need to test all your components individually. Do you have softline compression fittings and some tubing? Would definitely make testing a lot easier.

 

I'd probably rip everything apart and having a dry run with soft tubing outside the case adding one component at a time. Your flowmeter is ... well, no other way of saying this, sort of a visual toy/gadget. It ain't measuring anything properly and you can't really visually differentiate flowrates beyond a certain point. Once it spins at somthing above 100rpm (guesstimate) you just can't differentiate anymore. The aquacomputer flowmeters are a good choice, they actually give pretty accurate readings, the tool is good and it is also compatible with HWInfo64.

 

A D5 is perfectly capable of running your system, a 2nd pump would only add redundancy.

 

P.S.: Is your D5 ONLY plugged into the mainboard fan header or do you also use the additional Molex connector? Because it's a D5, that thing needs quite some power and your on board 4pin fan header will most likely not be able to power that thing (potentially to the point of breaking something).