Should I Take NVIDIA Back?

[Egg-Roll]

So seeing as the WAN show no longer has a topic for "reasons" I'll just type it here...

 

at 11 minutes in Linus says Nvidia makes nothing, while that might be true they do in fact produce a card with their own branding on it to sell themselves and call it a reference card correct? Therefore while they might not make it they do have a product for sale based on the very chipset they designed, who makes it is irrelevant, it's the fact they sell a unit that makes their MSRP relevant. Equally they hold the stock of the manufactured chipsets of their GPUs and only sell them (or give rights to produce them) upon agreeing on their terms including not selling below a specified price point, which is in fact a Manufacture Suggested Retail Price, or more specifically a Minimum Advertised Price, as I said they hold the rights to the very chipset needed to make those cards and if the agreement is to sell all 3080 Ti's starting at $1200 then that is in fact a MSRP. So it's complete and utter nonsense that Nvidia's $1200 should be ignored as it is a MSRP, while the cheapest it's still what it is, also without Nvidia there would be no 3080 Ti. In other words if Nvidia states in their agreement with AIBs that all 3080 Tis are to be sold at $1200 and they sell the chips and/or rights at $800 a unit obviously the AIBs can't reach the $1200 mark like Nvidia can. 

 

at 17 minutes in he talks about if the $700 exists, well NOTHING exists at MSRP not even the 3080 Ti in question. As to if the 3080 actually exists at MSRP of $700 or not well maybe not outside of Nvidia that is, theoretically they could and that's all there can be because they simply don't exist in real life none of them including the 3080 Ti at any MSRP pricing, end of story as I can't today waltz my butt down to the local computer store to pick up a 3080 Ti any variant now can I? The cheapest one I've found is a ASUS TUF unit at about $780, the one with a actual price is $850 (EVGA XC3) listed w/o using the webs history logger.

https://web.archive.org/web/20201028193548/https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1593649-REG/asus_tuf_rtx3080_10g_gaming_tuf_gaming_geforce_rtx.html

So while no $700 AIBs currently exist based on their past selling prices (I've found) Linus clearly forgot the BS Nvidia does in their contracts that make it really hard to sell at the $700 price tag which is the reason why Nvidia's units are always sold out, because Nvidia deliberately does it to always sell out their own units to maximize profits. Currently there is no incentive on making or selling the $700-900 units, Linus should know that but to defend himself (clearly) he ignored that simple fact, as it comes down to what's the most profitable to the company for that unit in question.

 

To further reinforce this why is it in the past LTT mentioned the $700 in past videos (while never directly mentioning it in the review it is clear they were referring to the price given by Nvidia in the 3080 review at the beginning) whereas the $1200 is no longer of importance? Reality is AIBs have a very hard or near impossible time producing the $700 or $1200 price tags in a normal market because of Nvidias  practices something Linus knows full well. So yes the $1200 is totally relevant, and the higher prices given by AIBs is because they have limited supply and have decided to put that limited supply into the SKUs that will produce the most money, it's a intelligent business choice to make when supply is thin and demand is high.

 (he said king not kin)

The 2080 Ti was $1200+ so he was actually wrong there, but not by much.

The first half of the WAN show was literally to just try to cover is own butt, but failed to do so.

 

Equally why is it possible for AIBs to manufacture AMD GPU at AMDs MSRP vs Nvidias? They all don't exist in the wild but on paper/websites they do. Why is that? It couldn't be shity practices done by Nvidia could it? NAH NEVER, NOT IN OUR LIFE TIME 

 

I can't recall when it was but I do remember Nvidia hitting the news about issues with selling chipsets to AIBs before the 3080 I believe.

 

 

TL;TR Linus shouldn't willy-nilly throw out a MSRP from the people who designed the chipset in question as he feels fit to justify his own mistakes.

 

 

  

On 6/3/2021 at 2:25 PM, WolframaticAlpha said:

Hey! I use a 5700XT too. Nice GPU, especially for a linux user like me

Yea I bought it because I can benefit from using Linux since the Linux drivers are usually better. Right now I am on windows however, and it's still a damn good card esp for the price I paid for it  (open box reference design MSI which I watercooled), also bought it over the 2060S as it was a base $50 cheaper if I remember correctly at time of buying, not the cheapest unit there but the cheapest unit was MIA at the store I went too lol...

[SolarNova]

@LinusTech

 

Im not one who usually comes on here to bash/call out a single persons take on a single subject ..but this a big one.

 

Just watched this weeks WAN show.... your way of the ball on this one.

Arguing 'Halo products are expensive so if ur worried about the price its obviously not a product for you' ..comes across as incredibly arrogant.

 

Lets be clear, and i've already posted the list in this thread.

Nvidas past 'halo' gaming cards (so not Titans , Dual Chip cards, or special limited OCed variants), are all around $700 inclusive of inflation ..or less.

 

To compare the 3080ti against the 2080ti is obviously stupid comparison and only done to cover ur pov on the subject, ignoring ofc every other 'halo' gaming card, or even every other X80ti card prior to that. The 2080ti pricing was completely out of line.

 

Arguing that in comparison to the 3090 its a good price is also epicly bad. The 3090 is supposedly considered the Titan class card ...so take past examples again, 780ti, 980ti, 1080ti ..all were Titan class performance for far less than Titan price. And if u dont consider the 3090 a Titan class card then the argument is even worse, if the 3090 is some new class between Titan and 3080ti ..why the hell is it so damn expensive ..where is the Titan ..and why is the 3080 now in the 3080ti price point and the 3080ti even higher still. It works out as a complete shift in pricing tiers.

 

The 20 series hinted at Nvidia trying to shift the pricing scheme, the initial 30 series card all but confirmed it ..the 3080ti HAS confirmed it. You cant defend that. Its a slap in the face to the consumer, end of story.

 

In the end ur defending a X80ti that is near 2 times the price it should be in comparison to every other 'halo' gaming card from the 10 series back to the year 2000 taking into account inflation.

 

Holding companies and the market to task is necessary ..its always been necessary ..just saying " it is what it is" is not helpful.

 

[Egg-Roll]

30 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

*Snip*

 

Truth be told there are 3 issues driving the prices up.

 

First is obvious and that's corporate greed, fabrication costs are becoming more expensive, the USAs anti-china actions... Just to name a few (mostly the first one however)

 

The second is people keep buying the products because "marketing just works" outside of crypto/pandemic, look at smartphones as a prime example how a top tier phone used to be $600 back in the S3/S4 days to todays market of $800 for a S21, however unlike the S3/4 back in the day one can't likely simply buy the cheapest model due to the self imposed "limitations" so you should really buy the 256 variant, but what if that's not enough still so you panic buy the 512 instead at nearly $1200, same stupid phone nearly double the price apparently there is no 512 unit for base model lol, 256 is $850, the $1400 is the Ultra as it's the only one that offers it apparently. Nvidia is playing the reverse game, throw out something stupidly expensive let it sit out in the market for x number of months (while hording all the chips that don't make it) then throw out a cheaper variant for a little cheaper of the price with a little less power. People will think they are getting a dirt cheap 3090 (they are outside of the vram, or more logically a way over priced 10% tops better 3080) and will buy that  right up, making the 3080 Ti possible the most sought after card.

 

The third issue is the media, this is where Linus and others get involved. I praise people like GN for calling out on the BS practices of overpricing their products based on the past (AMD, Intel and Nvidia), it's when bigger companies and places like LTT don't do such things as they should Instead they do this instead:

Linus and others who praise the overpriced sand (knowing the price or not) don't need to be paid or forced to do so, but when they do so at their free own will failing to bring up the extreme costs (as they did with the 3080 Ti) in comparison to the counterparts available they also reinforce the pricing schemes of the companies as well, even if they deny doing so.

I think the 6900 XT is a big ripoff but if it's a ripoff what does that make the 3080 Ti? A scam? If the 3080 Ti was released for the same price as the 6900 XT as it should have I would just call it a ripoff as well and only for those who wish to spend the money, sadly that never happened instead if people want to spend the money they might be better off trying to get the 6900 XT instead or shill out the few hundred more for the 3090, which in some cases might not be much more anyways, possibly cheaper if lucky...

[dogwitch]

at the end of the day the average consumer is dumb.

  people that do some research etc. wont be. but look at tech people. we to often stroke are own ego and  try to spin a narrative about tech. i been around longer then linus.  i understand where he is coming from on  this.

 there is a point that  where you not going explain it .

to  the user time and time again on ever video on the subject.

it not worth the time or money to do so.

 

i will use the term

ray tracing.

it has 2 complete different meanings. context is needed.

but the average person will only know what PR dept told them it means..

see where am going here.

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by dogwitch
format fix

[iLikeBananas]

So correct me if I am wrong, but I have been reading this thread and to me it looks like you guys are complaining about prices going up in general. I don't see how LTT is supporting that. If anything they have complained about it a few times in the past. I remember hearing them making the same argument. You could get a top tier graphics card for x Dollars, now you have to pay twice as much.

 

Now that is a shitty situation but nothing we can do about. Are you gonna buy no hardware at all until prices drop, which wont happen anytime soon? I don't think that LTT is wrong here. The prices might be bad, but they are the prices we have right now and we have to accept that. And I don't think it is wrong to recommend one of those cards.

[Egg-Roll]

5 hours ago, iLikeBananas said:

I don't see how LTT is supporting that. If anything they have complained about it a few times in the past.

For the 3080 Ti by just doing silly facial expressions and not question the price or even talk about it really equals to condoning it, doesn't matter if that's their intent or not, their intent was clearly be first after embargo lifts and give 0 Fs what comes of it. There was no remarks about how it's like the 3090 as in it being overpriced in the original video, the only time Linus acknowledged it was overpriced sand was on the WAN show. Don't get me wrong the video was a good review video of the 3080 Ti, one of the better videos they've done for Nvidias GPUs in a while, but I guess they couldn't make it too good so they had to screw up somewhere...

 

To put it in everyday life, it's almost equal to cops turning a blind eye to people who speed yet claim they don't condone it so people keep speeding up and up and up till it feels like a race track in the Indie 500... The cops could stop it or attempt too (even the best police force can't stop every car, so if all x million people decide to turn the highways into a race track cops are not going to be able to stop it) but they decide not too by not attempting to at least stop it. While yes Linus doesn't have police powers, the logic is the same, no one wants everyone hating on the pricing and can't suggest said product but suggest it's equal from their competitor instead that's cheaper, if everyone did that then they wouldn't do it correct? As that product would not sell or wouldn't sell well. (under normal conditions) Which is why I believe even if Linus claims he doesn't support it, his videos paint a different picture by the lack of discouragement. A funny face isn't discouraging, however enough words can be.

 

Current situation is unique, low supply with high demands (I've already explained why higher tier versions of cards are only being made vs the cheaper units), but doesn't mean Linus shouldn't have spend the 30 seconds to talk about how $1200 is a horrible price considering the 6900 XT (it's equal all things out of RTX really, each card excels in certain areas) at $1000, and how that itself is overpriced but a better deal than this card. That extra $200 is a pure cash grab on Nvidias end due to market conditions and as GN stated it would be DOA with any other market situation, as why would you spend 1.5x the price for 10% more within the Green ecosystem? Even in current market situation I will still suggest grabbing a G series (APU) card from either Intel or AMD along with their wished CPU if they so desperately want a new computer, or better yet go out and buy a prebuilt with a 3080 in it... It would be cheaper than the 3080 Ti  Well maybe, like everything else everyone should shop around for the best deal... Origin on the GPU side is charging $770 more for a 3080 from a 6700 XT, a $500 card... Which is weirdly $1000 in Canada on a Canadian retailer (not 3rd party) 

 

Guess everyone is screwing everyone now.

[VicBar]

On 6/6/2021 at 7:00 PM, iLikeBananas said:

 I don't think that LTT is wrong here. The prices might be bad, but they are the prices we have right now and we have to accept that. And I don't think it is wrong to recommend one of those cards.

I don't quite agree with that. Yes we have to "accept" the reality of the silicon shortage and "accept" that there are things out of everyone's control even NVIDIA, but them taking the position they did with the pricing, efectively "cutting out the middle man" and become the scaplers themselves (- GN), we have no reason and should not accept. The backlash is not only justified but good.

 

Also, the in reality it was just a "bad take", hence the WAN Show VOD's name. He's not wrong, but the position he took and the focus he gave to the card came across as pretty tone-deaf. You can focus on the 3090 and the card looks good: "It's a no brainer". Or you can say: "The 3090 doesn't make sense so we're not even gonna waste our time comparing it to it." - GN.

 

So in a time when there are not enough cards, instead of making lower end ones with good price to performance, they know they can get away with selling the most expensive products they can make and even mark up the price further. And it's a dick move. That's it. Linus acknowleged the "Where's the 3050, 3050Ti" idea when answering a Superchat last WAN Show.

[HenrySalayne]

On 6/5/2021 at 5:59 PM, Egg-Roll said:

while that might be true they do in fact produce a card with their own branding on it to sell themselves and call it a reference card correct?

The Founders Edition is not the reference card. It might be the reference design, but for the 3000 series at least, it wasn't. The FE serves two purposes:

- neutral review units without any board partner branding

-  entry level definition to force an equal entry price on board partner cards

 

On 6/5/2021 at 5:59 PM, Egg-Roll said:

Equally they hold the stock of the manufactured chipsets of their GPUs and only sell them (or give rights to produce them) upon agreeing on their terms including not selling below a specified price point, which is in fact a Manufacture Suggested Retail Price, or more specifically a Minimum Advertised Price,

I have bought several Nvidia graphics cards in the past way below MSRP. So I tend to call this wild and likely untrue speculation. And I'm sorry, but you cannot complain about some arbitrary value like the MSRP. It's nothing but a suggestion about the general direction of pricing. A long, long time ago in a far, far away past, we have seen prices well below the MSRP and today the opposite is happening.

 

On 6/5/2021 at 7:48 PM, Egg-Roll said:

Linus and others who praise the overpriced sand (knowing the price or not) don't need to be paid or forced to do so, but when they do so at their free own will failing to bring up the extreme costs (as they did with the 3080 Ti) in comparison to the counterparts available they also reinforce the pricing schemes of the companies as well, even if they deny doing so.

You don't seem to understand why PC components are so expensive right now. It has nothing to do with greedy manufacturers but people happily paying these insane prices. Nvidia could sell GPUs for $1 and you would still see +$2k pricetags on graphics cards. As long as stock cannot keep up with demand, prices will be as high as they are today without any interference from the manufacturers. Point your finger at all the people out there mining and scalping if you want to find a culprit. They are the ones pushing the price for personal profit.

[MultiGamerClub]

On 6/2/2021 at 3:00 PM, GabenJr said:

Buy NVIDIA RTX 3080 Ti (PAID LINK): Coming soon

awww

[dogwitch]

so what some people are saying is.

the host of a video channel. needs to ref everything . every time they do a video...

so people are that lazy now for research. sad

[Egg-Roll]

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

You don't seem to understand why PC components are so expensive right now. It has nothing to do with greedy manufacturers but people happily paying these insane prices. Nvidia could sell GPUs for $1 and you would still see +$2k pricetags on graphics cards. As long as stock cannot keep up with demand, prices will be as high as they are today without any interference from the manufacturers. Point your finger at all the people out there mining and scalping if you want to find a culprit. They are the ones pushing the price for personal profit.

I know why they are so expensive right now, but you quoted a part of my comment with the intent to throw it out of context. Reality is you can't go out and get a 3080 Ti chip to build your own card now can you? No you can't, why is that hmm? It couldn't be the fact that Nvidia owns the rights to that chip could it? That was my point in that specific part you quoted me on. So they can make up whatever price they want and sell it to the AIBs, they can demand the AIBs of that product to sell it for at least a certain amount, it's all about the contract between the AIBs and Nvidia not your own personal opinions on the matter. You are clearly failing to see that. I've rarely seen if ever (since I'm in Canada and conversion is a thing) AIBs sell Nvidia GPUs under MSRP, maybe it's due to where you live, but that simply doesn't exist here, and I don't classify MIRs cheaper.

 

Current retail market is caused by shortages I know that, I'm not stupid. However that doesn't make me wrong or stupid. I've already explained why we are seeing up to $2k units being sold at retail places before scalpers, perhaps actually read what I type before responding? If you don't understand ask.

 

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

I have bought several Nvidia graphics cards in the past way below MSRP. So I tend to call this wild and likely untrue speculation. And I'm sorry, but you cannot complain about some arbitrary value like the MSRP. It's nothing but a suggestion about the general direction of pricing. A long, long time ago in a far, far away past, we have seen prices well below the MSRP and today the opposite is happening.

 

I've already responded to this in the above, but wtf are you even going on about? Look I'm sorry for butt hurting all fanboys of both Linus and Nvidia (not really) but reality is Linus and people who condone such actions as increasing the price by $200 arbitrarily because they can thanks to the "current market situation" to gouge the consumers even more are still part of the problem, you can claim otherwise but you think Nvidia is complaining about him not bringing up the needless $200 increase? That's the issue, not where you buy your cards not the prices your are paying via scalpers or what ever fancy branding/features the AIBs decide to charge you for. Today we have the $1200 price tag to go based on, you know the actual price you could have gone to Best Buy to buy on release day in the USA? Doesn't matter market situation or not, failing to bring up the initial price in the video when clearly it should have made the card go from it's a good card to don't buy the card for $1200 but go to the 6900 XT instead for $1000 or buy the 3090.

 

I've bought most of my cards over MSRP but not by much, cards get "cheaper" here threw MIRs (useless) and free games here, very rarely do they get more than $20 in instant rebates. Also buying older or used units that stores are trying to move to make room don't count. As if we play that game then sure anyone could buy a card for under the MSRP...

 

3 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

The Founders Edition is not the reference card. It might be the reference design, but for the 3000 series at least, it wasn't. The FE serves two purposes:

- neutral review units without any board partner branding

-  entry level definition to force an equal entry price on board partner cards

Wait hold up... You just contradicted yourself.

"entry level definition to force an equal entry price on board partner cards"

with

" And I'm sorry, but you cannot complain about some arbitrary value like the MSRP. It's nothing but a suggestion about the general direction of pricing"

and

"It has nothing to do with greedy manufacturers"

 

So you are telling me the should have been $1000 to compete against the 6900 XT price to what it became of at $1200 has nothing to do with corporate greed due to current markets? You also clearly stated that MSRPs don't matter yet also state the selling price of the Nvidias GPU are designed for the purpose of a baseline aka a MSRP, you know a Manufactures "Suggested" (aka can sell for more or less) Retail Price... Now you put into play Nvidia will want the $200 extra for every chip on top of the normal selling price of the unit, no AIB is likely ever going to come close to the $1200 price. Plus no one knows the contracts the AIBs sign, there is nothing stopping Nvidia from selling a chip for $800 so long it is possible for the AIBs to sell at the $1200 mark if they so wish as per laws. In other words Nvidias contracts with their AIB partners can be setup so they could make the $1200 card they just won't make much money in doing so.

 

If you have the contracts for every AIB then please put them here if I'm wrong. Tho I would question how you got those confidential documents in the first place.

 

Also remember this has nothing to do with AIBs own pricing setups every video in the past Linus and others have gone based on the Nvidia and AMDs suggested prices or in the situation of Nvidia their FE cards, which are reference by design, meaning manufactures can use their layout for 3rd party cooling and to simplify manufacturing, and only way they have any hopes in really getting the price to compete with Nvidia's. If the AIB decides to sell a pure gold plated edition for $99,999 then one shouldn't judge a card based on that price, but the one that is closer to the MSRP or what the designer of the chip sells their units for, and at $1200 directly comparing it to the $1000 6900 XT it's a bad card, it gets worst when you look at the $800 3080 card. Pricing for now outside of scalpers is just on paper and dumb luck, if you want to do the stupid thing and buy from a scalper that's your choice, but don't force everyone to live by that pricing. Same goes with the current AIBs placement of chips into which product they put it into it doesn't/shouldn't dictate the overall market pricing as there is still a chance to grab a $1200 3080 Ti from Nvidia, so long that chance exists that price matters, so long computer component stores display a $880 3080 that price matters, regardless how unlikely the manufacture of the card will produce that specific unit, as it is not the most profitable for them with the scarce commodity. Economically speaking they are better off to throw that 3080 chip into a $1200 unit over the $880 unit, they make more money that way, doesn't mean that product won't ever existed it just means that product today isn't being built due to allocation priorities in a hot market.

[HenrySalayne]

7 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

I know why they are so expensive right now, but you quoted a part of my comment with the intent to throw it out of context.

Not really. The forum software just introduced a small IQ test and scrambled the quotes a little bit. I have fixed it.

8 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

It couldn't be the fact that Nvidia owns the rights to that chip could it? That was my point in that specific part you quoted me on. So they can make up whatever price they want and sell it to the AIBs, they can demand the AIBs of that product to sell it for at least a certain amount, it's all about the contract between the AIBs and Nvidia not your own personal opinions on the matter.

I have no insight into the contracts between Nvidia and their board partners. But you don't have any insight either. I have two data points from the past: In October 2016 I bought a mid-tier 1070 for 429€ (MSRP 499€) and in early 2020 a mid-tier 2070S for 489€ (MSRP 519€). I'm quite confident everybody involved still got their margin on these products and they were not once-in-a-lifetime unicorn offerings. I didn't even bother to find the cheapest offer and just bought all the components at the same store.
And I don't see you complain about the insane cost of a 2080S, by the way. It was 40% more expensive and just had 10% more performance. What a rip-off!

 

And one more thing: It's no longer Summer of 2020, it's now Summer 2021. Manufacturing costs have increased drastically in the past few month. All resources and components are way more expensive nowadays. It might just be the new MSRP is reflecting these changes and we will not see a 3080 for $699 in the foreseeable future. If Nvidia is asking way too much for their graphic cards, AMD is probably quite happy to step in and save the day. But I don't see this happening any time soon.

 

[SADS]

On 6/6/2021 at 12:00 PM, iLikeBananas said:

So correct me if I am wrong, but I have been reading this thread and to me it looks like you guys are complaining about prices going up in general. I don't see how LTT is supporting that. If anything they have complained about it a few times in the past. I remember hearing them making the same argument. You could get a top tier graphics card for x Dollars, now you have to pay twice as much.

 

Now that is a shitty situation but nothing we can do about. Are you gonna buy no hardware at all until prices drop, which wont happen anytime soon? I don't think that LTT is wrong here. The prices might be bad, but they are the prices we have right now and we have to accept that. And I don't think it is wrong to recommend one of those cards.

I'd disagree. I like to think I am an enthusiast to a degree, and if someone asked me what graphics card to buy, I absolutely would tell them not to buy anything right now because its not worth the money at MSRP, retail or second hand prices.

I'm holding onto my cash for now as well.

If I wanted to, I could go onto Ebay right now and buy a scalper priced card.... but I'm not stupid with my money

 

I think a lot of people here are conflating pricing (affected by supply/demand/"corporate greed" etc) with value. Currently I couldn't recommend these products because the price means that the value of the product is not good enough.

I think that because there are a lot of new buyers, there's a lot of customers that have no idea whatsoever if these cards are offering good value... which they don't.

[Egg-Roll]

4 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

I have no insight into the contracts between Nvidia and their board partners. But you don't have any insight either. I have two data points from the past: In October 2016 I bought a mid-tier 1070 for 429€ (MSRP 499€) and in early 2020 a mid-tier 2070S for 489€ (MSRP 519€). I'm quite confident everybody involved still got their margin on these products and they were not once-in-a-lifetime unicorn offerings. I didn't even bother to find the cheapest offer and just bought all the components at the same store.
And I don't see you complain about the insane cost of a 2080S, by the way. It was 40% more expensive and just had 10% more performance. What a rip-off!

The MSRPs in Euros are weird, about 1/3 of the time if you can get free shipping you can save money even after paying any taxes, duties etc. Feels like they think your currency is equal to that of the USD so they just charge you that. I know VAT is about 15-20% but that doesn't mean you aren't getting screwed over by the MSRP.

I paid about $550-$600 for my 1070 plus taxes but that's Canada...

As for margins well yea, no one would make something they can't profit off of. That's the point, you might have gotten a card below MSRP but depending where that specific card was made, tariffs, shipping, retail, warehousing etc could have been many times cheaper than in either US or Canada so you have the ability to get cheaper prices.

 

The Supers of any series is just filler, usually a tweaked variant of the past to push a little more performance out to milk as much money as possible. Also the 2080S was released for the same price as the 2080. Both had a base of $700USD. Just AIBs likely had or wanted to keep pushing their 2080's so they adjusted their prices to do so.

 

Edit: I just looked it up the Founders card sold for $500 USD for the 2070S so you basically paid $100 more, but that's including taxes etc. So you actually paid what is basically the lowest anyone could sell you w/o likely losing money.

4 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

And one more thing: It's no longer Summer of 2020, it's now Summer 2021. Manufacturing costs have increased drastically in the past few month. All resources and components are way more expensive nowadays. It might just be the new MSRP is reflecting these changes and we will not see a 3080 for $699 in the foreseeable future. If Nvidia is asking way too much for their graphic cards, AMD is probably quite happy to step in and save the day. But I don't see this happening any time soon.

Have they? Or is it due to supply issues, costs of supplies have gone up a little bit but I can't see how they have gone up so much to justify a 20% increase over AMDs, TSMC is rumored to increase prices by 25% however there is a lot more to a gpu over a tiny chip. I've already explained why we currently don't see a $700 3080 at least from AIBs, I'm sure Nvidia is still making them for their own store as it's the most profitable but to make partners happy and to ensure they survive this (more money afterwards) they can't make as many.

I've already questioned as to why AMDs AIBs are fully able to list MSRP priced cards while Nvidias are not, yet all I've received is basically hatred towards me for calling Nvidia out on it. The quality of the components should be equal, esp within the same brand, else people who owned them (past and present, it's not just a 20/21 thing) would be complaining about poor manufacturing quality. In current markets you do have to dig a little bit but you can find a 6700 XT, I think a 6800 XT and potentially a 6900 XT AIB SKU for AMDs MSRP, yet no SKUs exist for Nvidias via AIBs even before the pandemic?  Look at motherboard, ram, and cpu manufactures, they all price their products around each other to compete even within their own brand. Only Nvidia's AIBs don't (some of whom make said components too), if that doesn't scream questionable practices by Nvidia then Nvidia has brainwashed people very well. I like Nvidia, but this price gouging has gotten out of hand, regardless if it's the $200 tacked onto the 3080 Ti or the contracts between them and AIBs that make it nearly impossible to produce products to compete with their own. With AMD rising from the ashes like a phoenix I don't see myself buying another Nvidia card in the foreseeable future as there is quite clearly an issue with Nvidia between them and AIBs at least.

 

I got my current gpu, 5700 xt, for about $450 cad plus taxes where the MSRP was $400 USD, it retailed around $500 but I got a open box (10% off) 2nd cheapest option, so I actually got the 5700 XT under AMDs MSRP. Reason why I didn't go with Nvidia? They wanted about 30-50 more (from the $500) for their equal card and it was hard to find, I wonder why  (I was ok with paying the $500ish price tag, just a open box with a 10%? I'm getting that first as if it didn't work I can return it)

[iLikeBananas]

On 6/7/2021 at 8:14 PM, VicBar said:

Yes we have to "accept" the reality of the silicon shortage and "accept" that there are things out of everyone's control even NVIDIA, but them taking the position they did with the pricing, efectively "cutting out the middle man" and become the scaplers themselves (- GN), we have no reason and should not accept. The backlash is not only justified but good.

Okay I agree with that. That was a shitty move by them and I think LTT acknowledges this too. I swear I heard Linus complain about this exact thing in one of his videos.

 

But in the end of the day the price of a product is also driven by demand. And right now there is just soooo much demand that they can get away with it.

 

On 6/8/2021 at 11:15 AM, SADS said:

I'd disagree. I like to think I am an enthusiast to a degree, and if someone asked me what graphics card to buy, I absolutely would tell them not to buy anything right now because its not worth the money at MSRP, retail or second hand prices.

I'm holding onto my cash for now as well.

If I wanted to, I could go onto Ebay right now and buy a scalper priced card.... but I'm not stupid with my money

I do not disagree with that. But what if you HAVE to buy one. Imagine a scenario where there is no way around it. You just have to get one. Wouldn't it make sense to compare prices and just get the best one? Because that is what I think Linus is doing here. He is recommending the best one if you absolutely have to buy one. He is not saying that the prices are justified.

 

Correct me if I am wrong here, I really don't want to be the bad guy here defending shady businesses. But the way I see it Linus is not wrong. I am not buying any graphics card atm either because I think the prices are not worth it. I actually wanted to buy a computer last year August, but then decided to wait until September... then I thought "Hey I got this far, why not wait for the new nvidia cards" and look where we are right now. I got absolutely screwed over by all of this, and for no good reason too. I am not happy about this situation either.

 

Just answer me this question, if I knew my gpu would die by the end of this month. And waiting is not an option, I need a new one because of work or something like that. What am I supposed to do? I think in situations like that these reviews are helpful. Just because I have to buy a gpu for a ridiculous price doesn't mean that I will go out and buy a 1050 for 1k. I will still look for the best price/performance ratio. 

[SADS]

12 minutes ago, iLikeBananas said:

Okay I agree with that. That was a shitty move by them and I think LTT acknowledges this too. I swear I heard Linus complain about this exact thing in one of his videos.

 

But in the end of the day the price of a product is also driven by demand. And right now there is just soooo much demand that they can get away with it.

 

I do not disagree with that. But what if you HAVE to buy one. Imagine a scenario where there is no way around it. You just have to get one. Wouldn't it make sense to compare prices and just get the best one? Because that is what I think Linus is doing here. He is recommending the best one if you absolutely have to buy one. He is not saying that the prices are justified.

 

Correct me if I am wrong here, I really don't want to be the bad guy here defending shady businesses. But the way I see it Linus is not wrong. I am not buying any graphics card atm either because I think the prices are not worth it. I actually wanted to buy a computer last year August, but then decided to wait until September... then I thought "Hey I got this far, why not wait for the new nvidia cards" and look where we are right now. I got absolutely screwed over by all of this, and for no good reason too. I am not happy about this situation either.

 

Just answer me this question, if I knew my gpu would die by the end of this month. And waiting is not an option, I need a new one because of work or something like that. What am I supposed to do? I think in situations like that these reviews are helpful. Just because I have to buy a gpu for a ridiculous price doesn't mean that I will go out and buy a 1050 for 1k. I will still look for the best price/performance ratio. 

Yeh, that's a fair point, if you don't have ANYTHING, then the viewpoint is kinda valid. But not many people are in that position over "I have something and I'm looking at how the new products stack up", I would imagine.

 

If my card was dead/dying, and I needed to get 'something' just to use the computer, then I would probably consider or recommend a 9/10 series card (or AMD equivalents) second hand.

A quick check on Ebay shows that those are, whilst still a bit expensive for how old they are now, are not totally unreasonable (maybe a bit under their original MSRP in the UK at least)..... at least not totally :S

Those cards are more than capable at 1080p still if you needed a card for games and I guess you'd just have to weigh up if the workstation performance would offset the cost against newer/poorer value cards if you had to use them for work.

[Sir Beregond]

Wan show take made no sense. Linus should refresh on the previous 80Ti cards vs their 80 counterparts as it was obvious he did not remember and past examples didn't support his take at all.

 

780Ti, 980Ti, 1080Ti, and yes even the 2080Ti all offered 20-30%ish more performance than their base 80 counterparts. All those generations also had a truly halo product in the form of a Titan card. The 3090 is NOT a Titan, doesn't have Titan drivers. Its an expensive gaming card with an unnecessarily huge amount of memory for gaming. But 24Gb of RAM doesn't make it a Titan.

 

So if 3090 is the halo product this gen, are we now saying there are two halo products? Makes no sense.

 

When compared to last generations going back to Kepler, the 3080Ti is the most expensive xx80Ti card...ever, while offering the LEAST performance uplift over the base xx80 card, ever. At best 10%ish, at average, single digits. This card exists as a way for Nvidia to capitalize on lost money that scalpers are otherwise getting, and the tinfoil hat side of me says as a way to divert chips away from cheaper 3080's.

 

A halo product this is not. A shameless money grab to capitalize on current market conditions? Yep. Gamers win? Lol, nope. And Linus's take reeks of "get rich scrub". Honestly was very shocked by it.

[dogwitch]

26 minutes ago, Abyssal Radon said:

The 3080 Ti review made me cringe for several reasons:

1. Linus' video was a total shill for nVidia
2. Trying to argue that the $1199.99 MSRP is a good value is unbelievably stupid, especially since the 3080 Ti is only ~10-15% faster than a 3080 and has a $500 (minimum) price increase
3. I've lost a lot of enthusiasm in tech reviewers, most of these 3080 Ti and 3070 Ti review video's are a complete waste of silicon being sent to these reviewers that seem to miss the point of actually reviewing a product

Honestly, the prices of GPU's these days are unbelievable, and trying to make something 'look' like it has a valuable proposition when it really doesn't makes it a hard sell. The only reason why the GPU prices are high is because people are buying them at these higher prices (scalpers are not helping this on going issue as well), which tells companies like Intel, AMD, and nVidia that it's ok to sell something that doesn't reflect it's true value when looking at performance/dollar. Profit > common sense, I wish consumers would tell these companies that these prices for technology is not ok by not buying a product when it's price doesn't reflect it's true capabilities/performance.

 

All I can say is that I'm really happy with my 3080 purchase and am looking at getting a proper platform to house my 3080 in when it becomes available... Intel's 11th gen. processors are pathetic and AMD's 3rd gen. processors are good, but third party sellers are flooding the market with hiked up units that aren't a good buy at the moment.

funny his review never said it was a good value.

he said if you truly need a card for a lets say adode. it smarter to buy it then a 3090.

guy never been  a shill.

you seem to some how view the video way out of context.

[Egg-Roll]

2 hours ago, Abyssal Radon said:

I've lost a lot of enthusiasm in tech reviewers, most of these 3080 Ti and 3070 Ti review video's are a complete waste of silicon being sent to these reviewers that seem to miss the point of actually reviewing a product

Care to explain what's wrong with video's like GN and such? Because they all called Nvidia out on the literal  fest they are doing, in their own way, everyone but Linus that is.

GN even took jabs at Linus in his 3070 Ti video  Including price to performance breakdowns (starts at point of interest)

Edit: Also around the 8 minute mark

Is the 3070 Ti and 3080 Ti a waste of silicon? No, are they a waste of your money? Yes.

Also fyi bashing Linus about video cards around here seems to get you nothing but the angry fanboi's after you  Can't tell if they are Linus FBs or Nvidias now...

 

I also find it funny the person above this reply claiming the 3090 is a waste when in reality it at least gives you double the ram even more processing units (regardless how many more) for a few hundred more... Yea, total waste... Overkill for gamers, but still a better deal than the 3080 Ti lol.

[duckypath]

1 hour ago, dogwitch said:

funny his review never said it was a good value.

he said if you truly need a card for a lets say adode. it smarter to buy it then a 3090.

guy never been  a shill.

you seem to some how view the video way out of context.

Which is very very wrong anyways? Tasks like adobe need the 3090 for the VRAM, 12GB VRAM is no where near ideal for professional tasks. Linus agrees, which is why he just upgraded all his editors PCs to 3090s. 12GB VRAM in the 80Ti, and being considered for professional applications? lol ok

 

Let's not glaze over the fact that this "review" was completely wrong, inaccurate, and provided terrible advice. Only being made worse by having it justified, rather than redacted, and remade. Typical LTT to leave up a bad review rather than spend some $$ and have it remade to provide factual, good information for the consumer.

 

I'll also be clear here, I don't think LTT was paid by nVidia, that's stupid. I do think they based the review on bad information, or made some bad calls about its performance and value, and decided to double down rather than admit mistake, which would require them to take down a video with sponsor spots.

[Rex Hite]

The reviews for the two Ti cards were fine. Not only were the reasons justified by explanation, but the videos are also fulfilling their intended purpose.

 

Respect.

 

For me this is more engaging than any high frame-rate computer game.

 

[Sir Beregond]

2 hours ago, Abyssal Radon said:

since the 3080 Ti is only ~10-15% faster than a 3080.

Let's be honest, there are some examples in the 10-15% range, but most games and the average is single digit percentages over the 3080. There's no "value" here any more than a 3090. Both it and the 3080Ti are bad buys for gamers, period.

[Rex Hite]

Since LTT is in the business of acquiring cards and reselling them at EMMESSARPEE so people can avoid inflated prices maybe it's not in anyone's interest that any cards get bad-mouthed at this time.

With LMG's VAG programme in mind, in whose interest is a relationship with a manufacturer or supplier soured by cynicism? 

 

Do people want a chance at a new high-end card, or do people want their prejudices about the value of a toy justified in a video?

 

 

[Sir Beregond]

5 hours ago, Rex Hite said:

Since LTT is in the business of acquiring cards and reselling them at EMMESSARPEE so people can avoid inflated prices maybe it's not in anyone's interest that any cards get bad-mouthed at this time.

With LMG's VAG programme in mind, in whose interest is a relationship with a manufacturer or supplier soured by cynicism? 

 

Do people want a chance at a new high-end card, or do people want their prejudices about the value of a toy justified in a video?

 

 

What are you even talking about?

 

If value is not something to consider in a review, then it's time to stop reviewing and just be a marketing channel at that point. Now Linus did mention value, but his take makes no sense. The 3080Ti is too expensive as a gaming card. It doesn't have enough VRAM as a "value" 3090. So what purpose is it serving exactly other than Nvidia trying to get in on money scalpers would get from gamers on 3080's and tinfoil hat theory, taking away silicon that might have gone towards 3080's as they can make more money from 3090's and 3080Ties.

[Rex Hite]

10 minutes ago, Sir Beregond said:

What are you even talking about?

 

If value is not something to consider in a review, then it's time to stop reviewing and just be a marketing channel at that point.

Yes.

LMG's product is not reviews, their product is engagement. In that context I think the two reviews in question are perfectly fine.

That, taken in consideration with the VAG brings into focus why those reviews are 'fine, on-brand, and of far more potential benefit to the viewer than a 'salty' review that simply copies the sentiment of channels that don't have a VAG.