Should I Take NVIDIA Back?

[dogwitch]

pretty solid review.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, dogwitch said:

pretty solid review.

It's a fairly solid review, and I do like how they compared with directly to the card that it basically is less the ram along side the 3080, 6900 XT among others.

 

However I still do agree with GNs first 6 minutes of their review as well. LTT could have done their video better, including allotting a 30 second bit for a future Linus to put in a few words about pricing if what happened, happened instead of a few stupid facial expressions. However they didn't, if they did imo this review would have been nearly perfect, instead they clearly care more about money (via time savings) over doing a actual good job, doubt 30 minutes of Linus's time along with a camera and a person to handle said camera would have killed profitability of the video. I think that's the main factor triggering a lot of people here.

 

I've only ever bought mid to high-mid range GPUs because buying anything more at the time didn't make sense as in 2-4 years when I upgrade I'll be getting a new gpu anyways. So far it's been proving to be a decent thing to go based on as well the 1070 I have isn't power efficient but competent for most games still today at decent settings, RTX is still nowhere near what  I would call a benefit to buy into yet, unless it's for Minecraft or other very specific titles.

[MadAnt250]

NVIDIA flagship xx80 Ti GPU MSRP: 2013: GTX 780 Ti, $699 MSRP 2015: GTX 980 Ti, $649 MSRP 2017: GTX 1080 Ti, $699 MSRP 2018: RTX 2080 Ti, $999 MSRP 2021: RTX 3080 Ti, $1199 MSRP   Inflation of the us dollar starting at $1 and $699 for the same years: 2013: $1.00 ($699) 2015: $1.02 ($711.18) 2017: $1.05 ($735.50) 2018: $1.08 ($753.46) 2021: $1.15 ($801.31)   Does anyone see the problem here? Yes, some of you do.   More reviews should point out this problem and not be light on it and reviewers should say WTF is this price and give better reasons why to not to buy the overpriced product along with the reasons why to buy it.

[crazzp]

A lot of people are getting upset that Linus did not criticize Nvidia, however if we look at the trend of MSRP and corresponding performance, we will see that the MSRP is actually in line with the performances. Do remember the law of diminishing returns - as the price gets higher, the returns of FPS is lower. Hence we cannot just say disappointing to see a 70% price increase compare to a 8% increase in FPS increase. 

I've created uber roughly $/FPS, data gathered from LTT and GN review. I may mistakes somewhere but the gist is there. In summary : 3080 and 6800XT is underpriced for its performance. 3080 TI is in line with the $/FPS line. 

 

 

[Egg-Roll]

15 minutes ago, crazzp said:

First scrap CS:GO it's diluting the results:

Also the 6900 XT reference cost is $1000 not $1499, just because that's what it's sold for via AIBs isn't what its MSRP is, which the $1200 for the 3080 Ti is based off of in this video. What a good way to skew the price to FPS in favor for team green.

 

W/CS:GO

 

WO/CS:GO

 

Everyone can argue with me till your faces turn blue, if you include CS:GO you might as well let any game in that can do hundreds of FPS in your calculations as well, which would dilute the living hell out of any $ to FPS.

[Dv6901]

13 hours ago, GabenJr said:

Nvidia’s got interesting ideas for managing the silicon shortage, and their latest tactic is to improve supply by making the RTX 3090 obsolete. A bold move – Could it work?

 

 

Buy NVIDIA RTX 3080 Ti (PAID LINK): Coming soon

Buy NVIDIA RTX 3090 (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/OqXR

Buy NVIDIA RTX 3080 (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/Si8kya

Buy AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/uVzF

I think that

 

13 hours ago, GabenJr said:

Nvidia’s got interesting ideas for managing the silicon shortage, and their latest tactic is to improve supply by making the RTX 3090 obsolete. A bold move – Could it work?

 

 

Buy NVIDIA RTX 3080 Ti (PAID LINK): Coming soon

Buy NVIDIA RTX 3090 (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/OqXR

Buy NVIDIA RTX 3080 (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/Si8kya

Buy AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/uVzF

That is Interesting, has Nivida ever considered silicon recycling? It could be an amazing idea in regards profitability and ecological impact. 

[dogwitch]

5 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

It's a fairly solid review, and I do like how they compared with directly to the card that it basically is less the ram along side the 3080, 6900 XT among others.

 

However I still do agree with GNs first 6 minutes of their review as well. LTT could have done their video better, including allotting a 30 second bit for a future Linus to put in a few words about pricing if what happened, happened instead of a few stupid facial expressions. However they didn't, if they did imo this review would have been nearly perfect, instead they clearly care more about money (via time savings) over doing a actual good job, doubt 30 minutes of Linus's time along with a camera and a person to handle said camera would have killed profitability of the video. I think that's the main factor triggering a lot of people here.

 

I've only ever bought mid to high-mid range GPUs because buying anything more at the time didn't make sense as in 2-4 years when I upgrade I'll be getting a new gpu anyways. So far it's been proving to be a decent thing to go based on as well the 1070 I have isn't power efficient but competent for most games still today at decent settings, RTX is still nowhere near what  I would call a benefit to buy into yet, unless it's for Minecraft or other very specific titles.

you do realize science. where one team claims something 2 other teams check to see if claim true or not.

Gn  trying to do that. but with out 2 other sources to verified the claims. which wont work.

i notice he is letting ego come into the reviews.

at the end of the day.

you need a bigger team.

he  doing to much and it shows.

rant done.

but point still stands.

most people want do research, will simple skip over a large amount of  video till the end.

 

 

[VicBar]

9 minutes ago, dogwitch said:

you do realize science. where one team claims something 2 other teams check to see if claim true or not.

Gn  trying to do that. but with out 2 other sources to verified the claims. which wont work.

i notice he is letting ego come into the reviews.

at the end of the day.

you need a bigger team.

he  doing to much and it shows.

rant done.

but point still stands.

most people want do research, will simple skip over a large amount of  video till the end.

 

 

Your argument of "science" only works with quantifiable data. Are you saying their benchmarks are wrong? Otherwise it's an OPINION, and you can agree or disagree. You can't say all the other's reviewrs opinions are opposite so "This opinion is WRONG".

 

That being said I don't agree with a lot in this video, but I'm not claming science is why it's wrong or shouldn't be taken into account.

[WolframaticAlpha]

20 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

I wonder how much gamers actually care about features like RTX Voice

 

Also gamers Nexus summed up the 3080 Ti in under 6 minutes

 

I'm ok with AMD cashing in a little bit no different than Intel if/when their gpu comes out, for the amount of work they actually had to put in to catch up, I'm actually more willing to support them at higher prices because they want to actually be better. whereas the big green daddy of cards really doesn't care and the 3080 Ti just proves that, if they wanted to compete with the 6900 XT they should have kept it equal price.

Supporting the underdog in what is still a duopoly is pretty strange.

Supporting any product is dumb. AMD, Intel and Nvidia have made cash grabs in the past. You should buy the one which is the best, even if it is from a consumer unfriendly company.

[dogwitch]

7 hours ago, VicBar said:

Your argument of "science" only works with quantifiable data. Are you saying their benchmarks are wrong? Otherwise it's an OPINION, and you can agree or disagree. You can't say all the other's reviewrs opinions are opposite so "This opinion is WRONG".

 

That being said I don't agree with a lot in this video, but I'm not claming science is why it's wrong or shouldn't be taken into account.

what am saying is who else is checking the data other  then GN.  like how flat a hs block is?

am not saying bench mark of games

[Egg-Roll]

9 hours ago, dogwitch said:

you do realize science. where one team claims something 2 other teams check to see if claim true or not.

Gn  trying to do that. but with out 2 other sources to verified the claims. which wont work.

i notice he is letting ego come into the reviews.

at the end of the day.

you need a bigger team.

he  doing to much and it shows.

rant done.

but point still stands.

most people want do research, will simple skip over a large amount of  video till the end.

 

 

How to make anything look bad:
Use the worst setup ever claiming it was something else to show something was bad.

It's been done in the science community to disprove change, theories, etc. The best thing for one person to do is have a open mind, and the fact that I gave a LTT review over a Nvidia GPU any real sort of praise speaks for itself.

Edit: a Covid vaccine manufacture is only doing 1/3 the science about mixing doses just to make the option look bad, and to sell more of theirs.

3 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

Supporting the underdog in what is still a duopoly is pretty strange.

Supporting any product is dumb. AMD, Intel and Nvidia have made cash grabs in the past. You should buy the one which is the best, even if it is from a consumer unfriendly company.

I would never touch a genuine consumer unfriendly company unless I absolutely had too, if I did I would choose the cheapest option as a throw away, however Nvidia isn't exactly unfriendly to consumers, are they greedy? Yes, but greed doesn't mean unfriendly. Apple is a prime example of a consumer unfriendly company because they do things to prevent you from actually doing things that you should be allowed too for absolutely no reason behind it. Nvidia's Ether limiter is an attempt to solve a current problem in hopes that their original consumers (aka gamers) can gain access to their products, I don't agree with it like Linus but that doesn't make them unfriendly to their true customers.

 

My 5700 XT is a result in best for the buck performance from a mainly Nvidia buyer, no different than it's 6700 XT counter part. Might not be best of the best, waste of money sir style like a 3090, 3080 Ti or the 6900 XT but it gets the job done, and if I mined on it for about 150 days straight (I won't, and at current daily gains) I'd make my purchase price back.

 

Reality is Nvidia is sitting on years worth of tech to slowly release, they are working on not next years model but 2-3 years from now, AMD is working on next years, that is why I would support them. Nvidia could kill AMD tomorrow if they really wanted too, but they won't because they can't due to monopoly laws.

 

2 hours ago, dogwitch said:

what am saying is who else is checking the data other  then GN.  like how flat a hs block is?

am not saying bench mark of games

Note: I've not watched/read any of these and only looked at the titles.

It really doesn't take more than 30 seconds to find out... This isn't the early 2000's anymore.

Anyone wanting a GPU should spend more than 1 video to make a purchase decision.

Spoiler

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pb8fe8fFxs&ab_channel=BenchmarkLab

 

https://www.theverge.com/22463608/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-review-test-benchmarks

https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-review-benchmarks-performance/

https://www.engadget.com/nvidia-rtx-3080-ti-review-gpu-130036402.html

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2021-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-review

 

 

[tikker]

16 hours ago, MadAnt250 said:

NVIDIA flagship xx80 Ti GPU MSRP: 2013: GTX 780 Ti, $699 MSRP 2015: GTX 980 Ti, $649 MSRP 2017: GTX 1080 Ti, $699 MSRP 2018: RTX 2080 Ti, $999 MSRP 2021: RTX 3080 Ti, $1199 MSRP   Inflation of the us dollar starting at $1 and $699 for the same years: 2013: $1.00 ($699) 2015: $1.02 ($711.18) 2017: $1.05 ($735.50) 2018: $1.08 ($753.46) 2021: $1.15 ($801.31)   Does anyone see the problem here? Yes, some of you do.   More reviews should point out this problem and not be light on it and reviewers should say WTF is this price and give better reasons why to not to buy the overpriced product along with the reasons why to buy it.

Not defending high pricing, but aside from inflation is there a (reliable) way to also factor in the cost of memory, manufacturing process etc advancing and growing? Do we have that information? A 1:1 780 Ti clone would thus be $801.31 nowadays, but it isn't a 1:1 clone. It's on a different and smaller node, different architecture, it has a lot more memory. I would not find it that hard to imagine 3 GB of GDDR5 to be cheaper than 12 GB of GDDR6X. I couldn't find the memory prices in 2013 quickly, but if these prices of ~€13 (2017, GDDR5)-€23(2019, GDDR6) ($14-27) per GB is still reasonably representative it could be $50-100 extra due to the memory alone (not sure how much more expensive the X variants are). That's $900. Now I don't know if the remaining $200 can be covered by increased manufacturing cost.

 

I get that pricing is stupid at the moment, but surely we can do better that "uuu $1200 is expensive fuck this card" (community and reviewers alike)? I'd actually love to see things like your list here getting incorporated more. Put pricing into perspective, show that Ti's used to take the xx80's place in terms of price. That sort of thing. Of course the price one can actually obtain the card at should matter significantly, but I don't like this "<rant about pricing>" followed by "oh here's some benchmarks because we have to" attitude towards this generation of cards.

[WolframaticAlpha]

4 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

My 5700 XT is a result in best for the buck performance from a mainly Nvidia buyer, no different than it's 6700 XT counter part.

Hey! I use a 5700XT too. Nice GPU, especially for a linux user like me

[MadAnt250]

5 hours ago, tikker said:

Not defending high pricing, but aside from inflation is there a (reliable) way to also factor in the cost of memory, manufacturing process etc advancing and growing? Do we have that information? A 1:1 780 Ti clone would thus be $801.31 nowadays, but it isn't a 1:1 clone. It's on a different and smaller node, different architecture, it has a lot more memory. I would not find it that hard to imagine 3 GB of GDDR5 to be cheaper than 12 GB of GDDR6X. I couldn't find the memory prices in 2013 quickly, but if these prices of ~€13 (2017, GDDR5)-€23(2019, GDDR6) ($14-27) per GB is still reasonably representative it could be $50-100 extra due to the memory alone (not sure how much more expensive the X variants are). That's $900. Now I don't know if the remaining $200 can be covered by increased manufacturing cost.

Keep in mind of the huge performance increase of these new GPUs, so Nvidia could have stepped some things down a bit to keep the pricing reasonable.  

[maksakal]

I absolutely have no understanding for what NVidia is doing with this mining blocking algorithm and this whole verified gamer nonsense. So I have to jump through hoops to prove I'm a gamer? What if, like Linus said, I want to make a buck on the side to earn back my investment? GPU's aren't cheap you know.

Why not do what Sony is doing and start selling directly to consumers? Just set a limit of 1 GPU you will ship per address. If scalpers and miners are such a huge problem this will make it much harder for them to buy GPU's in bulk.

And before you say that there's still going to be fraud through employees or external contractors. First of all at least it's something and at least you will have a chance at buying a GPU even if there's going to be fraud.

Long ago when I was a much much younger I've worked in a huge distribution warehouse. They distributed pretty much everything you can think of. From car parts and complete engines for warranty overnight repair, to huge machines which had all kinds of tamper stickers on them, to motherboards (I was tasked with judging RMA requests and making pictures of motherboards to outline the problem so they could be shipped back to China for repair) to all kinds of electronics and the smallest components.

The customer could even pay for the shipment to be guarded. Apple does this with their shipments if I'm correct.

 

They even used to tell us that if somebody managed to get the smallest piece out of the warehouse (there was a minimum value) you could get a bonus if you told them how you did it.

When I was there this one guy got caught stealing laptops, but this was discovered the next day. What he did was put a few laptops on a pallet with waste and park the pallet near a gate. What he then did was clock out, go outside, reach in and get the boxes through the gate. Valuable things like that get monitored all the time and the next day when they did a scan they immediately discovered they were missing a few. Then they looked at the camera footage a saw what the guy had done. Usually discovery will take some time and it will get noticed when a lot of stock is missing, but in this case just 3 laptops and it was discovered immediately.

These warehouses have quality control systems and tracking systems in place which are just mind boggling. Theft, fraud or any kind of manipulation is impossible. They can tell you to the exact count how much of something they have, where it is and how much they've shipped to whom. To the exact count.

To test this one time for fun we looked up how much M3 screws there should be in stock and it was exact.

What I'm trying to say, there are already companies out there which provide these services and with the web shop boom the number of these warehouses has only multiplied. It's a matter of the right contracts to provide the right services.

Of course this will mean the supply to retailers will be limited and NVidia will only sell at MSRP. The market will pretty much be locked at MSRP (eliminating scalpers all together) but to be honest right now I'm willing to pay MSRP to get my hands on a decent GPU. If I look at the outrageous prices being asked for not previous gen but 2,3 gen's back. No let me pay MSRP and be done with it.

[duckypath]

Once again LTT prioritizing being first, making assumptions. Clearly the 3080Ti is not a great value, and seeing how they have a 'review' video and recommending that it's a no brainer purchase without knowing a price solidifies that LTT is not a channel for reviews anymore. My opinion makes zero difference, and I don't expect for anything to change, but I can't not call out something this dishonest, especially from a channel that claims to be one of the top in its field.

 

TL;DR -> Don't watch LTT for honest reviews.

[dogwitch]

12 hours ago, duckypath said:

Once again LTT prioritizing being first, making assumptions. Clearly the 3080Ti is not a great value, and seeing how they have a 'review' video and recommending that it's a no brainer purchase without knowing a price solidifies that LTT is not a channel for reviews anymore. My opinion makes zero difference, and I don't expect for anything to change, but I can't not call out something this dishonest, especially from a channel that claims to be one of the top in its field.

 

TL;DR -> Don't watch LTT for honest reviews.

i watch many other reviews it seems nvidia was not be truthful to the review side. multi people  said they where told 1 thing and with video.... ( talking on ti from nivida) where surprise the price.

[Sorenson]

Honestly IDK why people are so upset about the 3080 Ti MSRP. It’s expensive, but it isn’t mean to be a price to performance card.

 

First off, MSRP is nonsense when you can‘t even find 3080’s at the $700 price point. Every 3080 that I’ve seen come in stock is at least $900 if not $1200. If you want to be upset about something, every 6700xt that i’ve seen available in the last month is $900-1000. From this context, if you can buy a 3080 Ti at MSRP its a great deal. In any other year I would agree that this is way overpriced, but its not an ordinary year. 

 

Second, 3080’s are almost never dropped on any of the stock trackers. My theory is, the GPUs that would go to the 3080 end up in the 3090 because it makes them so much more money. Why on earth would NVIDIA take a GPU core that could be sold as a 3090 and put it in a 3080? It makes absolutely no logical sense. At least now there is a chance 3080 Tis will actually show up more than once a month.

[power666]

The problem is that we don't yet know the context of what the supply is going to be between the 3080 and 3080 Ti in the short term.  It isn't too far fetched that nVidia has shifted emphasis from the 3080 to 3080 Ti manufacturing in a move to raise average gross margins for them.  Demand is through the roof, supply hyper constrained, and the recent buying advice has been to purchase what ever you can find to purchase regardless of what it is if you can afford it. If stores only have 3080 Ti's on the shelves with the 3080 stock full of dust bunnies, you either fork over the $1200 at MSRP or nothing.  If the stores only have the 3080 Ti in stock at $1200 or scalped 3070/3080 for $1200, users will go to the 3080Ti for the extra performance, no warranty issues being the first purchaser and the ability return it to the store.

 

While Linus is correct that nVidia is not a raw manufacturer on tonight's WAN show, they are the sole supplier of GA102 chip to board manufacturers.  eVGA, Asus, MSI etc. can't get those chips outside of nVidia and they dictate the prices that board makers pay.  nVidia does get to set guidance for the parts such requiring 24 GB of memory on the 3090, though the board makers can source the GDDR6X from whom they see fit.   Thus a huge chunk of the bill of materials a board maker incurs is controlled directly by nVidia.  The key data point here which no one publicly know is how much nVidia is actually charging for 3080, 3080 Ti and 3090 branded GA102 dies to board partners.  Obviously nVidia takes the GA102 dies from Samsung and bins them into those three products.  Another relative data point toward this discussion how many of those dies fit into each of those bins.  One common thing is that as yields improve, down binning will occur to meet supply demands for low end parts (ie a 3090 capable die will then be sold to fit into a 3080 Ti).  Those pieces of data would fully reveal nVidia's strategy on pricing.  As a consumer I'd love to learn this information and that'd be some good investigative reporting.  Given that no one is happy about the current supply and pricing, I'm willing to bet LTT or some other tech journalist could pry this information loose under anonymity.

 

The other thing worth noting is the whole manufacturing discussion is the amount of GDDR6X on the 3090.  The reasoning for the short 3090 supply may not be the yields of the GPU itself but rather GDDR6X memory is the limited factor in its production.  By dropping down to 12 GB on the 3080 Ti, nVidia could increase sales of their dies to board partners who would no longer be constrained by GDDR6X supply.

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

IMO The comparison RTX3080 to RTX3080Ti is more meaningful because Nvidia would have otherwise used those dies to make 3080, so consumers are paying 500 extra for 10% performance and 2GB of VRAM. Also, the price of the RTX3090 almost doesn't matter. That card is meant for buyers that want the best, no matter the cost. It's not like many buyers of RTX3090 would now buy an RTX3080TI. That's also why the RTX3090 allows SLI.

 

I'm not against the markup at MSRP. Except those lucky few buyers that get the card at launch, others would get inflated prices. I would rather Nvidia and AIB pocket that extra and reinvest it into making better card than a scalper pocking that difference. Another thing I'm fine with, is the hash rate limiter. Fact is miners buy those cards at scalping price because they print money. If those GPU print less money, fewer miners buy them and the scalper price reduces.

 

I agree with Linus's argument of RTX3080Ti using half memory dies to an RTX3090. If that helps Nvidia produce more cards, that's good.

 

Too bad many friends CAN'T get their hands on PC hardware... I'm giving my GTX1070 to a friend who is stuck with a 750Ti, because he gave up on getting a GPU any time soon. Another friend of mine is running twin R9 NANO in  crossfire and watercooled. He wanted the 3080Ti because of the VRAM for machine learning and he couldn't get them...

[aaradorn]

Looking at their newest video "Addressing my Bad Take on RTX 3080 Ti - WAN Show Jun 4, 2021"

 

He just comes of as disconnected from the community, the card is overpriced, the performance is a joke for a TI card, it's just nvidia scalping and making sure they can sell even more cards for even more money. All the "work" they put into the 3080 ti should have been used on expanding the 3080 production line.

 

And the whole "using half the memory dies" can kiss my ass, it's still using more than the 3080 so now they are using even more dies in general as they are still producing 3090's.

 

Oh well, hope AMD can catch up to Nvidia and we get more chips in the future, that's all most of us can really hope for.

[iLikeBananas]

On 6/2/2021 at 9:06 PM, vukos said:

Barely a performance uplift for +70% increase of 3080 (at MSRP that won't even be met in real life).

Okay so this new card is supposedly as fast as a 3090, but you say that it is barely faster than a 3080. Than why exactly are people buying the 3090 instead of the 3080?

 

I am on Linus' side here because I think it's good to have an 3090, but cheaper. But you say that the 3080 Ti is barely faster than a regular 3080. Wouldn't that mean that the 3080 is also almost as fast as a 3090? Because if that is true than I don't see why people buy the 3090 in the first place.

[aaradorn]

4 minutes ago, iLikeBananas said:

Okay so this new card is supposedly as fast as a 3090, but you say that it is barely faster than a 3080. Than why exactly are people buying the 3090 instead of the 3080?

 

I am on Linus' side here because I think it's good to have an 3090, but cheaper. But you say that the 3080 Ti is barely faster than a regular 3080. Wouldn't that mean that the 3080 is also almost as fast as a 3090? Because if that is true than I don't see why people buy the 3090 in the first place.

It's not anywhere near the 3090 my guy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iLikeBananas]

7 minutes ago, aaradorn said:

It's not anywhere near the 3090 my guy

So you are saying that ltt benchmarks are wrong? Because in theirs the 3080 ti beats the 3090

[aaradorn]

1 hour ago, iLikeBananas said:

So you are saying that ltt benchmarks are wrong? Because in theirs the 3080 ti beats the 3090

It could very well be wrong, guess we just have to wait for a while to see the real results