Why doesnt Microsoft & Sony go to Intel & Nvidia for chips during the shortage?

[Nena Trinity]

I fail to see why not? They could ask Intel for CPU & graphics, that may require a bigger PS5 model to deal with the heat? Or they can go to Nvidia and make a ARM 8-core with Nvidia chip? Which may require some software work but either way why not at this point when AMD & TSMC is failing to fullfill the orders? They could also go to both? One for CPU and one for GPU...

[pythonmegapixel]

Nvidia aren't actually doing a great job at keeping up with demand for chips at the moment, are they...

[Lurick]

4 minutes ago, Nena Trinity said:

I fail to see why not? They could ask Intel for CPU & graphics, that may require a bigger PS5 model to deal with the heat? Or they can go to Nvidia and make a ARM 8-core with Nvidia chip? Which may require some software work but either way why not at this point when AMD & TSMC is failing to fullfill the orders? They could also go to both? One for CPU and one for GPU...

You mean "why not completely redesign the core software to work with a different SoC"?

[Moonzy]

because they probably need few years of RnD to push out a product like that

not to mention sample it out to game dev studios and what not

 

plus, only intel doesnt have a chip shortage issue, nvidia isnt any better

[Helpful Tech Witch]

Because that would be a mess for devs, they would have to switch what they develop and optimize for, it would lose features (rtx), lose like all of its gpu horsepower (xe gpus and the Amd chips in the consoles are not on the same level, and probably breaks license agreements Ms and Sony made with Amd.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, Moonzy said:

plus, only intel doesnt have a chip shortage issue, nvidia isnt any better

They meant using nvidia arm chips I think, which there isn’t a shortage of.

think switch, those are in stock fine now

[Raid Owl]

8 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

because they probably need few years of RnD to push out a product like that

not to mention sample it out to game dev studios and what not

 

plus, only intel doesnt have a chip shortage issue, nvidia isnt any better

Yeah, this isn't really something you can just decide to change next week or even next year. Billions of dollars and years of R&D go into producing a product that is a generation away, so changing that right now just isn't possible. 

[Freakwise]

19 minutes ago, Nena Trinity said:

I fail to see why not? They could ask Intel for CPU & graphics, that may require a bigger PS5 model to deal with the heat? Or they can go to Nvidia and make a ARM 8-core with Nvidia chip? Which may require some software work but either way why not at this point when AMD & TSMC is failing to fullfill the orders? They could also go to both? One for CPU and one for GPU...

It's really not easy for console developer to do something like that, just swapping cpu and gpu vendor like you would do on normal desktop computer,

[Guest]

Time and money. That's like asking why we don't have new gen console launches on a monthly basis.

It takes years and the GPD of a small nation.

 

I know why this thread comes off so strange to me.

It's an "if they can't have bread, let them eat cake" moment.

Truly... in a world where car manufactures have to shut plants down, forgetting every other detail including development time... where is the fab space to make millions of consoles going to come from? This isn't even close to being an AMD problem.

[BondiBlue]

Because at that point they'd basically be making an entirely new console. There's a reason one console uses the same CPU and GPU during the entire lifespan of the product, from when it's released to when it's discontinued. Game developers are developing for a single, well known system, not a console that could have one of a few different components for the CPU and GPU. 

[Espresso1760]

You make good point...

[Nena Trinity]

12 hours ago, Lurick said:

You mean "why not completely redesign the core software to work with a different SoC"?

 

12 hours ago, Moonzy said:

because they probably need few years of RnD to push out a product like that

not to mention sample it out to game dev studios and what not

 

plus, only intel doesnt have a chip shortage issue, nvidia isnt any better

 

12 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Because that would be a mess for devs, they would have to switch what they develop and optimize for, it would lose features (rtx), lose like all of its gpu horsepower (xe gpus and the Amd chips in the consoles are not on the same level, and probably breaks license agreements Ms and Sony made with Amd.

 

12 hours ago, Liam danu said:

It's really not easy for console developer to do something like that, just swapping cpu and gpu vendor like you would do on normal desktop computer,

 

12 hours ago, BondiBlue said:

Because at that point they'd basically be making an entirely new console. There's a reason one console uses the same CPU and GPU during the entire lifespan of the product, from when it's released to when it's discontinued. Game developers are developing for a single, well known system, not a console that could have one of a few different components for the CPU and GPU. 

Well here is the deal, going with Intel CPU then its still running same x64 architecture so I doubt that would be a issue, the Nvidia ARM chips maybe requeres a emulation layer or hardware converter like Apple did with M1. Then again we also has the GPU would only need another driver wouldnt it? The Xbox is kinda like a PC aleready so it shouldnt be to much of a issue there but Playstation is using  afork of FREEBSD so it should be possible. Yet yes I agree optimization may not be the same tough they could market it as a PS5 Lite or so? Lower res to compensate for lack of optimization?

[Kilrah]

Even if the core is x86 and the GPU is AMD there's lots of customization in consoles, the whole system management, DRM, SDK and dev tools for developers, everything is tightly linked to the specific setup and would take years to redo for a different system. It's like saying "well the original Xbox also used an x86 CPU and PC GPU, so what's different?"

 

Also, money. The whole point of consoles is to churn the hardware for very cheap comparatively and that comes with the economies of scale of a single config, if you've got to develop multiple variants that's not happening.

[Freakwise]

3 hours ago, Nena Trinity said:

 

 

 

 

Well here is the deal, going with Intel CPU then its still running same x64 architecture so I doubt that would be a issue, the Nvidia ARM chips maybe requeres a emulation layer or hardware converter like Apple did with M1. Then again we also has the GPU would only need another driver wouldnt it? The Xbox is kinda like a PC aleready so it shouldnt be to much of a issue there but Playstation is using  afork of FREEBSD so it should be possible. Yet yes I agree optimization may not be the same tough they could market it as a PS5 Lite or so? Lower res to compensate for lack of optimization?

A lot of customization happen when Sony and Microsoft for that matter partnered with amd making Their own chip to statisfy their own need in terms of features, i/o, performance, and power consumption...

Even though on it's core it was amd own zen core cpu sony add it's own special sauce like the spu or that custom "direct storage" controller,

 

And changing the actual hardware for the console mean game developers have to "rewrite" the entire game because the features that exist on amd apu that help the overall console and game is possibly not exist on intel or nvidia,

not to mention they have to search for the alternative on how to compensate for that lost of features, which maybe there is but, they still have to write the game so they can utilize those features on intel or nvdia instead of just tweaking the game to for example ps5 lite if they just stick with amd

 

Edit:

 

And having emulator on top of os just to play the game is basically a no go, and would have to take atleast a year to have stable release and a couple's more years to make it "perfect" 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Liam danu

[Ertman]

2 hours ago, Nena Trinity said:

Well here is the deal, going with Intel CPU then its still running same x64 architecture so I doubt that would be a issue, the Nvidia ARM chips maybe requeres a emulation layer or hardware converter like Apple did with M1. Then again we also has the GPU would only need another driver wouldnt it? The Xbox is kinda like a PC aleready so it shouldnt be to much of a issue there but Playstation is using  afork of FREEBSD so it should be possible. Yet yes I agree optimization may not be the same tough they could market it as a PS5 Lite or so? Lower res to compensate for lack of optimization?

 

15 hours ago, Nena Trinity said:

I fail to see why not? They could ask Intel for CPU & graphics, that may require a bigger PS5 model to deal with the heat? Or they can go to Nvidia and make a ARM 8-core with Nvidia chip? Which may require some software work but either way why not at this point when AMD & TSMC is failing to fullfill the orders? They could also go to both? One for CPU and one for GPU...

1) Neither Intel or Nvidia have competitive products (cpu+gpu package) available NOW, let alone a couple years ago when the console were being designed and they were making dev kits.

2) Nvidia can’t keep up with demand NOW, so they wouldn’t be any better than AMD.

 

3) Intel doesn’t have a working more efficient process node.

 

4) The console makers can’t make the switch to a completely different architecture during the console run for many reasons including some already mentioned by other posters. How games and the OS is coded isn’t like windows or Linux. The architecture in an intel/amd cpu are different, the gpu architecture in an AMD/Nvidia/intel gpu chip are different. This gets even more complicated when going to Arm.
 

You ask about emulation. That’s not going to be all that possible yet, but it’s also not a good strategy until you further away from launch, unless of course you like console prices approaching $1500 with poor power consumption. Just on a design and implementation, you are talking a minimum of 2 years, unless one of these companies is sitting on tech that’s a generation ahead that sips power.

 

Maybe the PS6 generation will have more options.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

3 hours ago, Nena Trinity said:

 

 

 

 

Well here is the deal, going with Intel CPU then its still running same x64 architecture so I doubt that would be a issue, the Nvidia ARM chips maybe requeres a emulation layer or hardware converter like Apple did with M1. Then again we also has the GPU would only need another driver wouldnt it? The Xbox is kinda like a PC aleready so it shouldnt be to much of a issue there but Playstation is using  afork of FREEBSD so it should be possible. Yet yes I agree optimization may not be the same tough they could market it as a PS5 Lite or so? Lower res to compensate for lack of optimization?

They would have to rerun all of the traces, replace the chipset, they would have to be a lower res for the hardware. As xe isn’t Any where close to as fast as a rdna 2 chip

[Nena Trinity]

5 hours ago, Kilrah said:

Even if the core is x86 and the GPU is AMD there's lots of customization in consoles, the whole system management, DRM, SDK and dev tools for developers, everything is tightly linked to the specific setup and would take years to redo for a different system. It's like saying "well the original Xbox also used an x86 CPU and PC GPU, so what's different?"

 

Also, money. The whole point of consoles is to churn the hardware for very cheap comparatively and that comes with the economies of scale of a single config, if you've got to develop multiple variants that's not happening.

Tell that to Microsoft and their series S

4 hours ago, Liam danu said:

A lot of customization happen when Sony and Microsoft for that matter partnered with amd making Their own chip to statisfy their own need in terms of features, i/o, performance, and power consumption...

Even though on it's core it was amd own zen core cpu sony add it's own special sauce like the spu or that custom "direct storage" controller,

 

And changing the actual hardware for the console mean game developers have to "rewrite" the entire game because the features that exist on amd apu that help the overall console and game is possibly not exist on intel or nvidia,

not to mention they have to search for the alternative on how to compensate for that lost of features, which maybe there is but, they still have to write the game so they can utilize those features on intel or nvdia instead of just tweaking the game to for example ps5 lite if they just stick with amd

 

Edit:

 

And having emulator on top of os just to play the game is basically a no go, and would have to take atleast a year to have stable release and a couple's more years to make it "perfect" 

Re-write the game is better than no games, currently the amount of devs making PS5 games is very slow due to the lack of PS5s on the market...

2 hours ago, Ertman said:

 

1) Neither Intel or Nvidia have competitive products (cpu+gpu package) available NOW, let alone a couple years ago when the console were being designed and they were making dev kits.

2) Nvidia can’t keep up with demand NOW, so they wouldn’t be any better than AMD.

 

3) Intel doesn’t have a working more efficient process node.

 

4) The console makers can’t make the switch to a completely different architecture during the console run for many reasons including some already mentioned by other posters. How games and the OS is coded isn’t like windows or Linux. The architecture in an intel/amd cpu are different, the gpu architecture in an AMD/Nvidia/intel gpu chip are different. This gets even more complicated when going to Arm.
 

You ask about emulation. That’s not going to be all that possible yet, but it’s also not a good strategy until you further away from launch, unless of course you like console prices approaching $1500 with poor power consumption. Just on a design and implementation, you are talking a minimum of 2 years, unless one of these companies is sitting on tech that’s a generation ahead that sips power.

 

Maybe the PS6 generation will have more options.

Well if the PS5 doesnt get out in proper numbers yet the PS5 will probably be the last console generation, as is now the PS4 out sells it why the hell would game developers even bother with PS5 when majority only have PS4? 

2 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

They would have to rerun all of the traces, replace the chipset, they would have to be a lower res for the hardware. As xe isn’t Any where close to as fast as a rdna 2 chip

Its better than no PS5s on the market as it is now the game developers have barely any reason to make their games for PS5 over the PS4...  

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, Nena Trinity said:

ts better than no PS5s on the market as it is now the game developers have barely any reason to make their games for PS5 over the PS4...  

theres still years of r&d for the redesign. new chipset adn cpu means completly redesigning the board

the devs still have a reason to dev for the ps5. people wont buy a ps4 game if they have a ps5, so devs will kill their popularity.

anyways, 8-10mil ps5s is still a lot of them sold, 

[Nena Trinity]

13 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

theres still years of r&d for the redesign. new chipset adn cpu means completly redesigning the board

the devs still have a reason to dev for the ps5. people wont buy a ps4 game if they have a ps5, so devs will kill their popularity.

anyways, 8-10mil ps5s is still a lot of them sold, 

And of those how many were used for mining? People have figured that out already how so that number may not be accurate...  

[Helpful Tech Witch]

7 minutes ago, Nena Trinity said:

And of those how many were used for mining? People have figured that out already how so that number may not be accurate...  

none.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-myth-busted-users-haven-t-mined-ether-using-a-playstation-5-yet/amp

it was faked

[Ertman]

50 minutes ago, Nena Trinity said:

Tell that to Microsoft and their series S

Re-write the game is better than no games, currently the amount of devs making PS5 games is very slow due to the lack of PS5s on the market...

Well if the PS5 doesnt get out in proper numbers yet the PS5 will probably be the last console generation, as is now the PS4 out sells it why the hell would game developers even bother with PS5 when majority only have PS4? 

Its better than no PS5s on the market as it is now the game developers have barely any reason to make their games for PS5 over the PS4...  

If this is the last generation of consoles, it will have nothing to do with availability. The DEMAND is why availability is non existent not lack of production. The PS5 is one of the best selling consoles EVER.

 

Your basically suggesting that they just put a hold on PS5 development because it’s popular. Your ideas of introducing new hardware is just going to make things worse. You essentially want them to catchup to demand by going slower and spending a lot of money. 
 

I mean this in good fun:

 

The game developers reasons for developing for the PS5 is the same as it was for the PS4 when it launched.

 

Also, the PS5 is outselling the PS4. I am taking a guess here, but I am thinking you have a PS4 and haven’t been able to buy a PS5 yet, and that’s why you are pushing this so hard.... am I close?

[Freakwise]

5 hours ago, Nena Trinity said:

Re-write the game is better than no games, currently the amount of devs making PS5 games is very slow due to the lack of PS5s on the market...

Re write takes lot amount of time and money thate otherwise game developers could be used for developing their next game

 

[Nena Trinity]

On 5/17/2021 at 4:53 PM, HelpfulTechWizard said:

none.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-myth-busted-users-haven-t-mined-ether-using-a-playstation-5-yet/amp

it was faked

No that was legit, the Chinese are hoarding Playstation 5s now... 

On 5/17/2021 at 5:03 PM, Ertman said:

If this is the last generation of consoles, it will have nothing to do with availability. The DEMAND is why availability is non existent not lack of production. The PS5 is one of the best selling consoles EVER.

 

Your basically suggesting that they just put a hold on PS5 development because it’s popular. Your ideas of introducing new hardware is just going to make things worse. You essentially want them to catchup to demand by going slower and spending a lot of money. 
 

I mean this in good fun:

 

The game developers reasons for developing for the PS5 is the same as it was for the PS4 when it launched.

 

Also, the PS5 is outselling the PS4. I am taking a guess here, but I am thinking you have a PS4 and haven’t been able to buy a PS5 yet, and that’s why you are pushing this so hard.... am I close?

Well that would be true if they released a PS5 exclusive game I wanted, oh wait there aint any games since devs doesnt wanna release games for PS5 over 4 since there is no reason to when no one can buy the game...

22 hours ago, Liam danu said:

Re write takes lot amount of time and money thate otherwise game developers could be used for developing their next game

 

Others do it fast, not sure what thie excuses are... 

[Ertman]

8 hours ago, Nena Trinity said:

Well that would be true if they released a PS5 exclusive game I wanted, oh wait there aint any games since devs doesnt wanna release games for PS5 over 4 since there is no reason to when no one can buy the game...

 

Your not making any sense. The availability is worse because of demand is higher than expected. Sure if there were more supply there would be even higher sales numbers, but the PS5 is selling faster than the PS4 at launch so comparatively it’s a success.

So since the PS5 is selling well, better than the previous console at launch, better than expected, that kinda debunks your idea that low console sales is the reason for low amount of PS5 titles. If you combine that with the idea that game development cycle is long, developers would have to already know the PS5 was a flop well in advance of launch, which it isn’t. Your whole idea of fixing it with a magical new console won’t work, even if you doubled or tripled sales, games won’t just suddenly appear.

 

There are far more likely reasons for the lack of PS5 exclusives, being more successful than the previous console launches isn’t something developers look at as a negative.

[Freakwise]

13 hours ago, Nena Trinity said:

No that was legit, the Chinese are hoarding Playstation 5s now... 

Well that would be true if they released a PS5 exclusive game I wanted, oh wait there aint any games since devs doesnt wanna release games for PS5 over 4 since there is no reason to when no one can buy the game...

Others do it fast, not sure what thie excuses are... 

I don't know who you referring to the one who do it fast nor the one that doing it slow...

 

... I guess this going to be never ending argument and it's kinda waste of time for me, so, good luck telling Microsoft or Sony that idea, Atleast for the current Gen

 

I'm not hating intel or nvidia or heavy fanboy of amd, i experienced all of their hardware, it's just that after so many reasons and example you still presist the idea and pushing it so hard...