Dumb American confused about the EU

[Jtalk4456]

OK so as the title says, I'm from the good old USA where we struggle with basic geography, let alone global finance. So I was reading something about people in greece wanting out of the EU or something like that, and I know UK did a Brexxit thing, so there's obv some concerns. My base is knowing EU regulates trade, the euro and some amount of law within participating European Countries. I'd like to understand a bit more though.

1. What all does the EU have control over specifically? Is the law only with regards to trade?

2. I'm trying in my head to compare it to the US states being the countries and the EU being the federal reserve/mint/whatever you would compare to there. Is this an accurate way to think of it or is there a different structure? 

3. Besides some moves in the tech space good and bad, What is the EU doing that's annoying countries like UK and Greece so bad? 

4. Plz only answer if you're actually in the area, do you like the EU? Why or why not?

[whm1974]

The United States of America is a Federation. While the EU is a Trade Union or started out as such. I'm not sure if the Term Confederation fits exactly.

 

Basically the EU is a Treaty that the Nation-States involved in the EU can leave at anytime at Will.

 

But I don't live there so that is all I can say. You can look at Wikipedia and the Entry Citations to find out more.

[7heo]

Edit: I will keep editing my answer, but I felt like it was urgent to answer as user @win1974 posted false information. So I'll start with that.

 

No, the European Union did not start as an economic alliance, it was very much due to countless wars between France and Germany (or Germany and France, depending on who you ask). The idea that Europe started as an economical Union is a fallacy, mainly spread by right wing media, who have a political (and financial) interest in causing havoc and pushing states to take their independence.

 

Original answer:

 

So, "standard" European here, and I think the last question is kinda missing the point. Asking people if they like or dislike the EU is kinda like asking people if they are for or against bullet proof vests. On one hand, yea, it can be really annoying to wear one, a bit heavier, bulky, and downright uncomfortable. But on the other hand, it is there for a VERY good reason, and usually, when you wear one, you know why.

 

So, as always with security, it is a matter of security versus convenience. The most convenient and comfortable apparel is just butt naked in the warm sun. But run too close to a branch and you'll get scratched, maybe cut. The safest apparel is a literal human sized tank (think Iron Man). In reality you're more likely to be using something in between. But there's always people who value their convenience more, and people who value their security more. Like with woodworking. So many protections, it's sometimes downright annoying to use the machines, but on the other hand, you keep all your fingers (pun intended).

 

Now the US and the EU are both federations, but the comparison stops here. While in the US, there has been a Union for most of its history, the European Union is rather young. Just barely half a century old, which, for a nation, is infancy. Also, in Europe, you can't just go to another country (or state) and expect them to understand you. The amount of people who speak a common language is slim, and the number of different languages does not help one bit. If you wanna move from one country to the next, you WILL have to learn a new language entirely. And that's not a figure of speech, administrations are usually forbidden from speaking to citizen in any other language than the official language of the country they're in. But I disgress.

 

I'm no politician, no lawyer and no economist, so take what I will write next with a grain of salt (determining the size of said grain is an exercise left to the reader). From what I know, the EU gets to decide a few things, and can act for arbitration in some cases, but it is far from having the sovereignty and the means of the US federal government. So the EU does not really have the capacity to tell one its countries how to act, or what to do. But if all the countries in the EU agree on something on one of their members, they will have the capacity to enforce it. In practice, however, the EU's role is mainly at the international level, and allows countries otherwise too small, to stand against superpowers like the US, China, or Russia. Both economically and with our (sometimes modest) military. However, it also gets to oversee things in the Union, and take important decisions with regards to the Euro currency, via the European Central Bank. During the 2008 crisis, the EU allowed some countries to whistand great economic stress without ending up with a humanity crisis, or worse, a civil war. That was achieved by redistributing wealth, from the wealthier countries to the poorer ones. But that also led many people to feel disrespected, or abused, as it helped people in countries they've never been to, who they can't communicate with, while costing them comfort. And that is where the debates starts.

 

Now, my personal opinion on the matter is that, while in its infancy, and definitely needing maturation, Europe is a critical federation for any of the countries involved, and that you only hear about what goes wrong, not about what goes right (if you ever worked in IT support, you might be familiar with the feeling). In fact, Europe does not only facilitate diplomacy, cooperation, research, and allows for a stronger market; it also gives its citizen a lot of freedom, rights and guarantees, of which many are not aware, and even less are using. I would advocate that, in order to help the EU to develop for the citizen as much as it has developed for the corporations and institutions, it would greatly help to implement programs such as:

 

• Forcing 18/19 year old teenagers to live one year abroad (in any European country) working (and paid!), while being hosted and fed for free (paid for by subventions). Much like the old "Military service", but this time, with a positive outcome. Of course with a focus on them discovering a new country, their ways, and culture; and with MUCH care that this does not turn into corporate exploitation.
• Forcing administrations to deal with citizen in either the official language of their country, or English. Why English? To show support for Ireland, one of our smallest members, and because now, no other country can pretend we went their way, so we can keep our heads high up.

And now, it's 4AM here, so I think I'll crash.

[zeusthemoose]

3 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

I'm trying in my head to compare it to the US states being the countries and the EU being the federal reserve/mint/whatever you would compare to there. Is this an accurate way to think of it or is there a different structure? 

Disclaimer: I'm also an American so all I know is what I have been taught in schools here and I have no direct experiences with the EU or its functions.

The EU is a supranational organization (a group of states that are working together to promote shared economic and political goals). As such I dont think there is anything to really compare it to here in the US but it does perform some functions covered by the US federal reserve and government. One of the biggest things it has done is help promote trade among its members through open borders and the common currency (the euro). It also helps bring more political power to the members by acting on behalf of all of them and not just single country.

[whm1974]

1 hour ago, 7heo said:

Edit: I will keep editing my answer, but I felt like it was urgent to answer as user @win1974 posted false information. So I'll start with that.

Since I didn't know it was False or not entirely correct, then I didn't post False Information. But I was simply Wrong at least in part.

 

 

[Spindel]

9 hours ago, 7heo said:

Edit: I will keep editing my answer, but I felt like it was urgent to answer as user @win1974 posted false information. So I'll start with that.

 

No, the European Union did not start as an economic alliance, it was very much due to countless wars between France and Germany (or Germany and France, depending on who you ask). The idea that Europe started as an economical Union is a fallacy, mainly spread by right wing media, who have a political (and financial) interest in causing havoc and pushing states to take their independence.

 

Original answer:

 

So, "standard" European here, and I think the last question is kinda missing the point. Asking people if they like or dislike the EU is kinda like asking people if they are for or against bullet proof vests. On one hand, yea, it can be really annoying to wear one, a bit heavier, bulky, and downright uncomfortable. But on the other hand, it is there for a VERY good reason, and usually, when you wear one, you know why.

 

So, as always with security, it is a matter of security versus convenience. The most convenient and comfortable apparel is just butt naked in the warm sun. But run too close to a branch and you'll get scratched, maybe cut. The safest apparel is a literal human sized tank. In reality you're more likely to be using something in between. But there's always people who value their convenience more, and people who value their security more. Like with woodworking. So many protections, it's sometimes downright annoying to use the machines, but on the other hand, you keep all your fingers (pun intended).

 

Now the US and the EU are both federations, but the comparison stops here. While in the US, there has been a Union for most of its history, the European Union is rather young. Just barely half a century old, which, for a nation, is infancy. Also, in Europe, you can't just go to another country (or state) and expect them to understand you. The amount of people who speak a common language is slim, and the number of different languages does not help one bit. If you wanna move from one country to the next, you WILL have to learn a new language entirely. And that's not a figure of speech, administrations are usually forbidden from speaking to citizen in any other language than the official language of the country they're in. But I disgress.

 

I'm no politician, no lawyer and no economist, so take what I will write next with a grain of salt (determining the size of said grain is an exercise left to the reader). From what I know, the EU gets to decide a few things, and can act for arbitration in some cases, but it is far from having the sovereignty and the means of the US federal government. So the EU does not really have the capacity to tell one its countries how to act, or what to do. But if all the countries in the EU agree on something on one of their members, they will have the capacity to enforce it. In practice, however, the EU's role is mainly at the international level, and allows countries otherwise too small, to stand against superpowers like the US, China, or Russia. Both economically and with our (sometimes modest) military. However, it also gets to oversee things in the Union, and take important decisions with regards to the Euro currency, via the European Central Bank. During the 2008 crisis, the EU allowed some countries to whistand great economic stress without ending up with a humanity crisis, or worse, a civil war. That was achieved by redistributing wealth, from the wealthier countries to the poorer ones. But that also led many people to feel disrespected, or abused, as it helped people in countries they've never been to, who they can't communicate with, while costing them comfort. And that is where the debates starts.

 

Now, my personal opinion on the matter is that, while in its infancy, and definitely needing maturation, Europe is a critical federation for any of the countries involved, and that you only hear about what goes wrong, not about what goes right (if you ever worked in IT support, you might be familiar with the feeling). In fact, Europe does not only facilitate diplomacy, cooperation, research, and allows for a stronger market; it also gives its citizen a lot of freedom, rights and guarantees, of which many are not aware. I would advocate that, in order to help the EU to develop for the citizen as much as it has developed for the corporations and institutions, it would greatly help to implement programs such as:

 

• Forcing 18/19 year old teenagers to live one year abroad (in any European country) working (and paid!), while being hosted and fed for free (paid for by subventions). Much like the old "Military service", but this time, with a positive outcome. Of course with a focus on them discovering a new country, their ways, and culture; and with MUCH care that this does not turn into corporate exploitation.
• Forcing administrations to deal with citizen in either the official language of their country, or English. Why English? To show support for Ireland, one of our smallest members, and because now, no other country can pretend we went their way, so we can keep our heads high up.

And now, it's 4AM here, so I think I'll crash.

While maybe arguing semantics EU is not a federation, but i recent years there have been pushes towards federalism by some of the more powerful member states.  
 

This is a bad move and will put pressure from the population of more countries towards exiting EU. Soveriginty matters, and unlike (what I read on the internet) some american thinks Europe is not homogenus. There are big cultural differences between countries.

 

But the most important part of EU is a peace project on a continent with endless wars for hundereds of years and the home to two world wars. Would be really be bad to destroy that because some politicians foam their mouths at federalization.

[minibois]

You should watch a broad overview video like this one from CGPGrey to get a rough understanding of what the EU is and is not:

11 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

1. What all does the EU have control over specifically? Is the law only with regards to trade?

The EU is a sort of governing body, that does impose laws that members have to follow. Usually the way it goes is that the EU makes broad laws, but countries can add things to those laws to fit their needs. 

But this isn't only trade laws, for example environmental ones too, as the countries in the EU are usually part of climate treaties as the entire EU, for example.

11 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

2. I'm trying in my head to compare it to the US states being the countries and the EU being the federal reserve/mint/whatever you would compare to there. Is this an accurate way to think of it or is there a different structure? 

I am not 100% familiar with the structure of the USA, but I think you can sort of compare it like this, except there is less importance on the governing body of the entire EU.

Yes, they can decide laws; but it's still mostly the EU members that decide the laws, plus taxes are paid to the country you live in and not the EU.

11 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

3. Besides some moves in the tech space good and bad, What is the EU doing that's annoying countries like UK and Greece so bad? 

The financial situation of Greece is a whole can of worms, which you can read up a lot online. It mainly comes from a different way of living life, with retirement for example being much earlier and them basically lying about their poor finances for years (until it was too late to fix).

The UK - being an island nation - sees borders a lot differently than a country like France or Germany sees them, being surrounded by other countries.

 

The idea of the EU and the larger "Schengen" area is that there is free travel of people and product, but the UK wants their own border patrol still.

They sort of always wanted an "EU Light/Diet", where they can follow some of the rules, but not all.

The rules they do and don't want is one of the reasons why Brexit is taking so long:

 

I've seen maps of the USA, which visualize how much each states gives and gets, roughly speaking.

The idea being that some states give more than they get, meaning they are the driving force behind the USA. 

This same idea can be applied to the EU, where you see some of the members (i.e. Germany, UK, France, etc.) contribute more to the EU than they get back, compared certain other countries (like Greece),

 

This can create a divide between countries, with the idea being "I pay more to the EU than I get back, which means this whole EU thing is a net loss for me!"

That is of course ignoring all the indirect benefits of the EU, like the freedom of travel for goods, meaning no import taxes, which means other EU members can more freely purchase items from your country, driving the economy.

11 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

4. Plz only answer if you're actually in the area, do you like the EU? Why or why not?

99% of the time I don't see myself as an EU citizen, I am a citizen of the country I live in. The Netherlands.

The only times I'd thing of myself being an EU citizen, is when:

- Purchasing something online

- Crossing the border into another country

 

That is what it comes down to, while the EU is a big deal to a lot of things (including freedom of travel for goods and people), it's also a system that allows people to forget they are in such a special place, for large moments of time.

When these situations do come up, it's great to know I am living in a country that has very good relationships with their neighbours.

Of course now with COVID-19 it's different, but in the past going to another country was as simple as grabbing a valid ID (ID, valid in the EU + those in the Shengen area (like Norway and Liechtenstein)) or passport and just crossing the border.

 

I have never lived during a time of heavy border patrol (except that one time I went to the UK, way before Brexit), but it's just such a peace of mind, knowing that I live in an area, where I don't have to be afraid of the neighboring countries, where we know we got each other's backs.

Sure, there may be times where one could think "but we contribute more than we get, we should leave!", but the indirect advantages of the EU are large.

The Netherlands borders two countries, Belgium and Germany.

The Belgian border has been very open for a long time, because of the Benelux area, (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) which was made at the end of WW2 ('44) and we've always had a special relationship with Belgium (it being part of the Netherlands for a long time). 

 

The German border of course was a very different thing, but seeing the remnants of old border patrol posts when driving past them and hearing stories from my parents, I think the EU is invaluable to any EU citizen.

 

However, you should always look at whether you want to live here on a country by country way. Every EU country is very different, the experience is not at all the same between them.

 

Good luck on your further research and I'd be happy to answer more questions!