Power limit explained?

[Mark Kaine]

So I've been checking power draw and stuff with GPU-Z and apparently my card [Gigabyte 3070 Vision OC] is already maxing out its supposed power limit [270w] at stock settings, although now I'm not sure if that was continuously or simply max... in any case let's assume this was continously [running a benchmark should theoretically max out most stuff] 

 

Does this mean there's no overclocking headroom at all? And if there is some headroom, how, when it's already at its max power draw? (provided the GPU-Z numbers are even correct) 

 

 

 

 

[jaslion]

Means its already oc'd to the max

[i_build_nanosuits]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Does this mean there's no overclocking headroom at all? And if there is some headroom, how, when it's already at its max power draw? (provided the GPU-Z numbers are even correct)

Its possible that you can't feed the card more power...but that doesn't mean you can't increase your GPU and memory clock speeds and get more performance.

[igormp]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Does this mean there's no overclocking headroom at all? And if there is some headroom, how, when it's already at its max power draw? (provided the GPU-Z numbers are even correct) 

Manufacturers are often way too cautious with voltages in order to keep all of the GPUs from a batch working, so in theory you could undervolt it whilst also increasing the clocks, or just increase the clocks using the current voltages.

[i_build_nanosuits]

3 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Means its already oc'd to the max

wow, i see you've done a lot of research...posts like that are REALLY appreciated.

[aDoomGuy]

Boost will already go pretty much as high as it can with regards to power limit and temperature. You can try to lower temps if possible but after cards started to boost I have not been seeing great manual OC on my cards.

[Kilrah]

There are tasks that will not fully load the GPU and thus not reach the PL, and where higher clocks might give slightly higher performance...

But boost pretty much takes care of that already, so yes overcloocking core has little benefit nowadays.

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

Its possible that you can't feed the card more power...but that doesn't mean you can't increase your GPU and memory clock speeds and get more performance.

 

3 hours ago, igormp said:

Manufacturers are often way too cautious with voltages in order to keep all of the GPUs from a batch working, so in theory you could undervolt it whilst also increasing the clocks, or just increase the clocks using the current voltages.

Yeah, ok both of these make sense in a way... so there might still be some headroom one way or another... 

 

Whats also true a game won't max out a card as much as a benchmark... I checked, pretty demanding game only uses like 180w on average, but yeah, I was just curious because I've seen this again and again people saying the higher the power limit the better for overclocking, evga even released bios updates with higher power limits... 

 

I'll check with a light OC what some benchmarks say I guess, that's at least one pretty good indicator in my experience. Thanks for the answers everyone. 

 

@igormp undervolting generally makes a lot of sense imo as you even get lower temps with that as far I know. 

[igormp]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

I was just curious because I've seen this again and again people saying the higher the power limit the better for overclocking, evga even released bios updates with higher power limits... 

It is IF you really want to push for extreme overclocks. Light overclocks can be achieved with the default voltages more often than not.

[Mark Kaine]

@igormp @i_build_nanosuits @Kilrah @jaslion @aDoomGuy

 

I get 50 points more in Superposition 1080p EXTREME with +25 +100...  that's basically nothing, right? 

 

 

I still think it's gonna work better in games obviously, but overall there probably isn't a lot of headroom - which is one reason I bought this card (high power limit) on the other hand that also makes these cards a bit boring

 

 

And another 100 points with +50 +100!

 

 

So there goes something...

power limit has always been around the same 263-271w and I guess there goes more at least on memory too... 

 

For comparison stock:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaslion]

That is normal most cards are basically running at their limit anyways. So those 50-100 points are like maybe 1fps if at all more.

[Mark Kaine]

I think the limiting* factor is mostly cooling probably... 70C is a bit toasty... 

 

If i *knew* for sure it'd help I might be getting an aio to keep it around 60c... the fans even at 100% aren't gonna do that...

 

Spoiler

*that's besides that I haven't found the actual limit yet... 

 

[Mark Kaine]

7 minutes ago, jaslion said:

That is normal most cards are basically running at their limit anyways. So those 50-100 points are like maybe 1fps if at all more.

Nuh, huh. "150 points is HUGE" - Jayztwocents 

[jaslion]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

I think the limiting* factor is mostly cooling probably... 70C is a bit toasty... 

 

If i *knew* for sure it'd help I might be getting an aio to keep it around 60c... the fans even at 100% aren't gonna do that...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

*that's besides I haven't found the actual limit yet... 

 

83c is when they will start lowering clocks. So you have plenty of headroom.

 

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

uh, huh. "150 points is HUGE" - Jayztwocents 

Yeah for people wanting to get on the scoreboard. I believe you are just gaming with that system so stop worrying about it that card is performing basically at max just leave it be. An aio isn't going to get you better performance as you are nowhere near 83c which is just a built in safety. The cards can go hotter than that but that is just gpuboosts limit. If you really want more performance get a better card instead of wasting money on a card that is basically at max performance.

 

Also to illustrate 150 points is nothing. 150/8544 (your original non oc score) = 0.0175 = 1.75% better performance. So basically nothing might as well just be a rounding error.

[Mark Kaine]

16 minutes ago, jaslion said:

83c is when they will start lowering clocks. So you have plenty of headroom.

 

Yeah for people wanting to get on the scoreboard. I believe you are just gaming with that system so stop worrying about it that card is performing basically at max just leave it be. An aio isn't going to get you better performance as you are nowhere near 83c which is just a built in safety. The cards can go hotter than that but that is just gpuboosts limit. If you really want more performance get a better card instead of wasting money on a card that is basically at max performance.

 

Also to illustrate 150 points is nothing. 150/8544 (your original non oc score) = 0.0175 = 1.75% better performance. So basically nothing might as well just be a rounding error.

Nope, starts already at 50C, always has (since gpu boost 3)

 

 

 

 

 

[jaslion]

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

Nope, starts already at 50C, always has (since gpu boost 3)

 

 

 

 

 

Not this gen

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, jaslion said:

basically running at their limit anyways. So those 50-100 points are like maybe 1fps if at all more.

 

In my experience this is good for about 5-10 fps depending on the game.

 

And low and behold... 

ROTTR 1440P, mostly max settings, MSAA 

 

3070 stock:

 

 

+25 core +100 memory:

 

 

+25 core +300 memory 

 

 

*Whooping* 5 FPS, that is HUGE especially at 1440p. 

 

I also get the angle that this isn't all that great , but you can get some noticeable gains with overclocking 3070 cards, you'd know that if you followed a couple of tech channels who all already proofed this. (I recommend Tech Jesus for the ice and flowing hair, and jayztwocents for the dremel action ) 

 

 

I was simply curious what's up with the power limit difference on some cards, it's quite curious anyways. 

 

57 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Not this gen

Do you have a source for this statement? 

 

Would be good to know either way, but generally lower temps means higher clock speeds and I haven't found anything regarding Ampere GPU boost analysis at all so far... 

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

In my experience this is good for about 5-10 fps depending on the game.

 

And low and behold... 

ROTTR 1440P, mostly max settings, MSAA 

 

3070 stock:

 

 

+25 core +100 memory:

 

 

+25 core +300 memory 

 

 

*Whooping* 5 FPS, that is HUGE especially at 1440p. 

 

I get the angle this isn't all that great , but you can get some noticeable gains with overclocking 3070 cards, you'd know that if you followed a couple of tech channels who all already proofed this. (I recommend Tech Jesus for the ice and flowing hair, and jayztwocents for the dremel action ) 

 

 

I was simply curious what's up with the power limit difference on some cards, it's quite curious anyways. 

 

Do you have a source for this statement? 

 

Would be good to know either way, but generally lower temps means higher clock speeds and I haven't found anything regarding Ampere GPU boost analysis at all so far... 

Gamersnexus any of the new 3000 series cards. Look at their review they have the initial 2 second really spikey spikes and then it basically normalizes.

[igormp]

5 hours ago, jaslion said:

83c is when they will start lowering clocks. So you have plenty of headroom.

That's for thermal throttle (clocks below the base ones). Boost clocks depends on the manufacturer bios.

[jaslion]

12 hours ago, igormp said:

That's for thermal throttle (clocks below the base ones). Boost clocks depends on the manufacturer bios.

Yeah that's what I mean. Most cards just seem to go full force gpu boost till they hit the thermal throttle limit nowadays. I mean why wouldn't they do that.

[igormp]

10 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Yeah that's what I mean. Most cards just seem to go full force gpu boost till they hit the thermal throttle limit nowadays. I mean why wouldn't they do that.

I've seen many that don't. After 60° they drop a tad bit from the full boost, and after 70° you notice a more significant drop (still above base clocks tho). I guess that's more common with gigabyte GPUs

 

It really depends on the manufacturer bios.