UBUNTU wins hands down against macbook (privacy and software) DON'T BUY THE MACBOOK PRO PLEASE!!!!

[620_240hz]

I have stupidly purchased a macbook pro 16" 2019 sometimes ago and I have experience a lot issues. It would nice if Linus would make a video regarding the mains points as he did with throttling of the previous 15" model.

I am a worker on computational material physics, and I always thought that macbook was great for programming, being based on UNIX as well as linux it should have been fine..I am sharing my experience because I much more recommend any other laptop where you can install ubuntu fine for several reasons.

Here there is short resume of macbook problems of the problems that unfortunately I have experienced and some things I actually do not appreciate and thus the reasons makes me regret I bought it:

1. -With external monitor get super hot and noisy and you cannot scale the size of the elementes of the user interface (if you do not trust me search for noise hot external monitor macbook pro, it is plenty of people complaining about that)

2. Crackling noise coming from the speaker (search fo noise speaker macbook pro)

3. -Graphical applications may not run well or at all through ssh -X remote server connection(personal frustrating experience)

4. -Specific/'outdated'' software which works fine on ubuntu may not work at all on MacOs!

5. -Little extra which made me mad: the so called handoff between mac and icloud devices is on by default. everything on the mac's clipboard is copied on the iphone/ipad clipboard to which many apps can have access (potentially spying and steal your data you think are safe on you mac, like bank account number and so on...)

Let's start:

1

• With an external monitor you cannot use the integrated gpu of the cpu to connect to it but it automatically switches to the dedicated gpu (because the output video only comes from there) and even if the are no applications opened at all, the fans goes above 2000 rpm and the temperature around 70 degrees, the keyboard gets very hot and the aluminum part above the touchbar incandescent. Thus practically unusable (very very warm and uncomfortable) . Even at a resolution of just 1080p, with no programs running at all (even during winter!). Basically if you do not want a very noisy and hot machine forget to use the macbook with an external monitor. I read maybe because the gpu starts to drain to high unnecessary voltage, maybe it can be fixed by update but they does not seems to care. I have tried with two monitor (also in the following steps) one from dell and another one from acer and had no problem with the others ubuntu or window laptop I have.

• What you could do? Use it in clamshell moden (lid closed), of course in this way it will not have to display at the same time the built in 4k display plus another one, thus it will get a bit colder. But unless you are using the built in display at the same time with the mirror option, you can't scale the interface on the external monitor, (I refer to larger text options on the scaled resolution missing on the external display)! This means you end up with very very small text, which essentially make pointless using a bigger screen. You could change it to a lower resolution and get bigger icons, text but in this way losing a lot of sharpness and detail as well! Another limiting thing I do not like, in order to use it in clamshell mode you MUST plug the laptop to charger and close the lid thus you cannot use the touchbar, keyboard, webcam and touchpad, speakers, microphone, of the laptop while using ONLY the external screen!!! In ubuntu, you do not need to close the lid to turn off the built in display and there is the possibility to scale the UI without changing resolution on EVERY monitor. (I have only bring with me always one charger even when I am home, the one of the macbook, to charge everything so this is very annoying not to be able to charge something for like 2 hours while keeping using the external monitor. of course on windows and ubuntu there is no need of this stupide requirement.)

• While using many softwares, it switches to the gpu even if not needed, for example while using logic pro. You can use a software called gswitch which allows you to select the integrated gpu thus it will get colder. You can also use app 'turbo boost switcher' which allows to disable the turbo boost feature of the intel processor. With both options you will not experience any loss in performance But turbo boost switcher keeps asking to insert the permission every time you do the login, thus every time you will have to insert the password, (even after I purchased it) and this quiete frustate me!!

2

• Regarding the problem of the speaker (the previous 15" model had the same issue) is really full of these threads of people complaining everywhere just search on google.. (the same hold regarding the monitor troubles). The partial solution to solve it is: go to midi output select 48hz several times because it keep to select back 44hz, you have to do it every time login or reopen programs again.....

I think all of this is unacceptable for a 2500 euros and more machine. I'll never buy a mac again.

3-4

• For personal experience while connecting through ssh -X to a server, programs such as gnuplot and vesta crashes while runs smoothly connecting by using ubuntu. Also some outdated software such as p4vasp (does not work at all you can't install it) and phonopy perform very poorly of you unable to install them while still works fine on ubuntu. This is because apple has deprecated opengl in favour of metal I guess.

• Due to the T2 processor is very difficult (if not impossible to run ti properly) to install ubuntu and even after that the laptop will be crap (fun always on and constantly hot). Why this??

• I actually was a fan of apple product. I must admit the quality of the macbook display is astonishing and also the trackpad is amazing, I even prefer it rather than the mouse and unfortunately there is no anything else so comfortable on other products, (except for the ipad magic keyboard!). For example you can really touch everywhere and right click with two fingers, just perfect for me. Also Logic and Final cut are awesome softwares and so intuitive programs to use. Just to tell you I am not an hater, despite my name. Also there in no flexion at all on the all the body of the laptop and the lid rigidity is perfect. With this post I only would like to point out all the absurdity and the partial eventual 'solution' I have found. I also hope this will help someone to make the right choise.

• EXTRA: minor annoying things:

-there is no delete key ( I did not know and was quite disappointed I used to click a lot before!)

-In order to keep using normal scrolling setting on the mouse and reverse scrolling on the touchpad at the same time, you have to install an external app called Scroll Revers which is not on the App store and also may not work... (because like almost everyone I scroll in reverse with touchpad while I am used to scroll normally with the mouse)

-In order to still get the hotspot with the lid close, the laptop needs to be connected to the charger. there is no such need on ubuntu for that. I do not want a wifi modem at home and use wifi sporadically that's why I am saying it but still obliges you to be connected to the plug. (same annoying problem as for the monitor).

-Very difficult to communicate with other smartphone or whatever outside the apple ecosystem...

-All the adapters does not come with pc and are very expensive

-Why Apple does not confirm you if it can output 144Hz at 2k??? It produces few models and could be more specific, this was important to me. By the way yes it can!! I bought a usc c to display port cable. And with the same cable work as well with ubuntu laptop which has just intel hd 620 graphic card. Just to let you know, I had this doubt before to buy the monitor and the other laptop, so now you now.

-sometime the touchbar stops to work and I do not feel good with it, I prefer the physical keys...

- the way to handle and resize windows is much worst than Ubuntu and Windows. you must press on the green button and then select the option.

[PlayStation 2]

TL;DR you were expecting macOS to be like Linux? 

Also can’t forget that everyone loves to call 1440p “2K” when it’s literally not close to that at all.

[620_240hz]

3 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

TL;DR you were expecting macOS to be like Linux? 

Also can’t forget that everyone loves to call 1440p “2K” when it’s literally not close to that at all.

I admit I was wrong sir and angry apple has done nothing to solve the problems concerning the over voltage of the gpu and the crackling speaker. I also hope someone who will read this and forget about the macbook forever

[gloop]

11 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

here is no delete key ( I did not know and was quite disappointed I used to click a lot before!)

 

11 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

All the adapters does not come with pc and are very expensive

TBH this seems like an impulse purchase. if you had actually researched you would've seen these beforehand.

[Slottr]

You're not the consumer Apple is looking for though? A lot of your arguments don't really make sense for the other 75% of people who don't need  the absolute best performance/tinkering

 

MacOS on the 2020 MBP has been near perfect for me regarding development

[Jurrunio]

prebuilt systems never considered supporting dual boot from the start, especially Macs since they have their proprietary OS.

 

and indeed you dont buy Macbooks for number crunching

[Kanna]

MacOS is not linux, the delete key isn’t even seen on windows laptops most of the time today, the adapters well why complain you must know when you buy they don’t need to put does not include adapters research does the job, I think MacOS is good it has the stuff you need on a laptop maybe a little overpriced but it’s apple 

[The Sloth]

6 minutes ago, Slottr said:

You're not the consumer Apple is looking for though? A lot of your arguments don't really make sense for the other 75% of people who don't need  the absolute best performance/tinkering

 

also most people who buy macs are general consumers, who wants features like the apple ecosystem. For devs, Xcode being able to make apps for Iphones and macs are one of the main reason they need OSX, hackintosh is not stable as real OSX. 

 

Overall Macs are still a better option for most people who wants a macbook due to 

 

- Better support/ warranty 

 

- Ecosystem, some people love it. 

 

- exclusive apps like FCP, Xcode 

 

[WaggishOhio383]

7 minutes ago, Kanna said:

the delete key isn’t even seen on windows laptops most of the time today

 

*Looks down at keyboard*

[tikker]

 

29 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

-Graphical applications may not run well or at all through ssh -X remote server connection(personal frustrating experience)

 X11 forwarding is a terrible idea on any platform, Mac or Linux and performance is usually bad depending on how fancy your application is. It's not made for that.

 

29 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

-Specific/'outdated'' software which works fine on ubuntu may not work at all on MacOs!

Speaking from experience specific or outdated software can be just as much of a pain in the ass to install and get to work on Linux. Packages are no longer supported, or their versions are too new or old forcing you to deal with dependencies manually. Look for a Mac version of the software or an alternative package.

 

29 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

-Little extra which made me mad: the so called handoff between mac and icloud devices is on by default. everything on the mac's clipboard is copied on the iphone/ipad clipboard to which many apps can have access (potentially spying and steal your data you think are safe on you mac, like bank account number and so on...)

So turn it off? It's a feature that seems quite appealing to me actually (coming from a non-macbook user) and (if I'm not mistaken) one of the main points of their eco system. Don't copy paste sensitive information like that if you area worried about your clipboard being compromised. And again, don't think you are safe on Android or Linux either. Use common sense.

 

29 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

there is no delete key

Fair point. That feels super weird to me as well.

 

29 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

Very difficult to communicate with other smartphone or whatever outside the apple ecosystem...

In my opinion that's kind of the point of their eco system and to their credit why it works so well.

 

29 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

-All the adapters does not come with pc and are very expensive

My Dell XPS 13 only has USB-C and only came with a USB-C to USB-A adapter. We're all in the dongle boat now.

29 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

Due to the T2 processor is very difficult (if not impossible to run ti properly) to install ubuntu and even after that the laptop will be crap (fun always on and constantly hot). Why this??

Because you don't buy a Macbook to then go and install Ubuntu on it. Buying a Mac and not running macOS is pointless in my opinion.

 

You have some points and seem to have been unlucky regarding some issues with heat and speakers, but many things you list aren't issues specific to mac and could just as well be found on other laptops really.

 

edit

 

It still sucks buying something and not have it meet expectations. Heat is one of my gripes with modern ultrabooks / notebooks as well. Sadly it's undavoidable with such powerful components crammed into tiny metal cases with minimum ventilation and cooling capabilities.

[Kanna]

1 minute ago, WaggishOhio383 said:

Should have mentioned laptops that isn’t full sized keyboards, but yeah there still is laptops with delete keys

[Lord Vile]

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

 

• With an external monitor you cannot use the integrated gpu of the cpu to connect to it but it automatically switches to the dedicated gpu (because the output video only comes from there) and even if the are no applications opened at all, the fans goes above 2000 rpm and the temperature around 70 degrees, the keyboard gets very hot and the aluminum part above the touchbar incandescent. Thus practically unusable (very very warm and uncomfortable) . Even at a resolution of just 1080p, with no programs running at all (even during winter!). Basically if you do not want a very noisy and hot machine forget to use the macbook with an external monitor. I read maybe because the gpu starts to drain to high unnecessary voltage, maybe it can be fixed by update but they does not seems to care. I have tried with two monitor (also in the following steps) one from dell and another one from acer and had no problem with the others ubuntu or window laptop I have.

 

It runs the dGPU because people are expected to use it like a mini desktop and you can drive a lot of pixels with 3x TB3 ports

Why would you use the keyboard when it's plugged into a monitor? 

It does not get incandescent stop chatting.

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

• What you could do? Use it in clamshell moden (lid closed), of course in this way it will not have to display at the same time the built in 4k display plus another one, thus it will get a bit colder. But unless you are using the built in display at the same time with the mirror option, you can't scale the interface on the external monitor, (I refer to larger text options on the scaled resolution missing on the external display)! This means you end up with very very small text, which essentially make pointless using a bigger screen. You could change it to a lower resolution and get bigger icons, text but in this way losing a lot of sharpness and detail as well! Another limiting thing I do not like, in order to use it in clamshell mode you MUST plug the laptop to charger and close the lid thus you cannot use the touchbar, keyboard, webcam and touchpad, speakers, microphone, of the laptop while using ONLY the external screen!!! In ubuntu, you do not need to close the lid to turn off the built in display and there is the possibility to scale the UI without changing resolution on EVERY monitor. (I have only bring with me always one charger even when I am home, the one of the macbook, to charge everything so this is very annoying not to be able to charge something for like 2 hours while keeping using the external monitor. of course on windows and ubuntu there is no need of this stupide requirement.)

 

The built in display is not 4K

The display is fine on an external monitor the icons and text are fine

Why would you want to use any of that with an external monitor, you'd be at home you should have stuff set up anyway.

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

 

 

• Due to the T2 processor is very difficult (if not impossible to run ti properly) to install ubuntu and even after that the laptop will be crap (fun always on and constantly hot). Why this??

 

because intel chips are appalling and it's why apple is moving to its own silicon.

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

• I actually was a fan of apple product. I must admit the quality of the macbook display is astonishing and also the trackpad is amazing, I even prefer it rather than the mouse and unfortunately there is no anything else so comfortable on other products, (except for the ipad magic keyboard!). For example you can really touch everywhere and right click with two fingers, just perfect for me. Also Logic and Final cut are awesome softwares and so intuitive programs to use. Just to tell you I am not an hater, despite my name. Also there in no flexion at all on the all the body of the laptop and the lid rigidity is perfect. With this post I only would like to point out all the absurdity and the partial eventual 'solution' I have found. I also hope this will help someone to make the right choise.

• EXTRA: minor annoying things:

-there is no delete key ( I did not know and was quite disappointed I used to click a lot before!)

There's a shortcut for that

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

-In order to still get the hotspot with the lid close, the laptop needs to be connected to the charger. there is no such need on ubuntu for that. I do not want a wifi modem at home and use wifi sporadically that's why I am saying it but still obliges you to be connected to the plug. (same annoying problem as for the monitor).

If you're plugged into a display the laptop should charge

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

-Very difficult to communicate with other smartphone or whatever outside the apple ecosystem...

You expected otherwise?

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

-All the adapters does not come with pc and are very expensive

No they're not, they cost between £20 and £70 for a plethora of 3rd party options with like 7 ports on them. The one I have has USB + C, SD, MicroSD and HDMI.

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

-Why Apple does not confirm you if it can output 144Hz at 2k??? It produces few models and could be more specific, this was important to me. By the way yes it can!! I bought a usc c to display port cable. And with the same cable work as well with ubuntu laptop which has just intel hd 620 graphic card. Just to let you know, I had this doubt before to buy the monitor and the other laptop, so now you now.

It's in the spec sheet for the cables and GPU...

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

-sometime the touchbar stops to work and I do not feel good with it, I prefer the physical keys...

I get that sometimes too, I too prefer standard keys most of the time but when the touchbar is good it's REALLY good.

34 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

- the way to handle and resize windows is much worst than Ubuntu and Windows. you must press on the green button and then select the option.

Windows literally patented window snapping, nothing apple can do.

[kelvinhall05]

48 minutes ago, 620_240hz said:

Graphical applications may not run well or at all through ssh -X remote server connection(personal frustrating experience)

lol forwarding x over ssh is fucking horrible on any computer, running freerouting on my server and forwarding over gigabit lan to my desktop two feet away still only gets me a fraction of a single fps most of the time

[620_240hz]

hi guys thank you for all your funny and useful answers.

most of you commented all the minor things I mentioned. this is because i never had a mac and I thought it would have all the good features of a classic laptop has plus something more (not less) And actually it should have better built quality, performance, speakers, touchpad.

Some met my expectation other really disappointed me especially the over heating and noise speaker!!! It is full o people complaining the same issues. I had other laptops and no such problems on common daily task...

I actually bought it because of logic (and also final cut) I just love the two  but yes also the terminal is much worst then ubuntu to me. for example if you double click on a directory path the mac will only copy the letters separated by / and not the entire path  very annoying compared to linux which makes your life faster and easy. for the rest unless your are a professional and need specifics apps it is not worth the price. anyway the heat and noise problem has not been addressed or recognized at all so far, I was really hoping to raise the attention to the problem and wait for os update to fix them  

[Roswell]

The only thing here that has much merit is the silly fan curve when you have an external display connected. That said... you can easily edit said fan curve like you can in Windows. There are design reasons out of Apple’s hands as to why you can’t have graphic switching on an external monitor, though. I’m pretty sure the same limitations exist on the PC side of things, though I could be wrong.
 

The only other thing I’ll add is that MacOS -is- UNIX, not based on it. Darwin (MacOS) is a “flavor” of BSD. Linux isn’t part of it and had no influence on it whatsoever.