PSU 750W... Which of mine is "better"?

[GoldenLag]

5 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

I know that and that was the reason. 

because people missinterpret multirail OCP all the time? framing it as a downside instead of an extra protection at higher wattages?

5 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

The newer ones do it all internally,

has multirail OCP ever been done externally? because afaik, its allways been done internally. or are you reffering to being able to turn on and off multirail OCP?

[Ankerson]

3 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

because people dont read the manual and missinterpret multirail OCP all the time? framing it as a downside instead of an extra protection at higher wattages?

has multirail OCP ever been done externally? because afaik, its allways been done internally. or are you reffering to being able to turn on and off multirail OCP?

Turning them off and on....

 

The HP should have actually been 31A on both if they really wanted them to add up correctly however.

 

But that's another issue...

 

 

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, Ankerson said:

Turning them off and on....

 

 

ah, tho its worth noting that a wellconfigured multirail unit is really just a step up from a singlrail unit. 

 

like the OEM unit mentioned in OP which have 2 higher OCP limits that really dont impose any limits on the hardware it can be used with. 

 

most of the units where you can turn off multirail allready have pretty good OCP configuration. 

[Ankerson]

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

ah, tho its worth noting that a wellconfigured multirail unit is really just a step up from a singlrail unit. 

 

like the OEM unit mentioned in OP which have 2 higher OCP limits that really dont impose any limits on the hardware it can be used with. 

 

most of the units where you can turn off multirail allready have pretty good OCP configuration. 

 

Like the HX series does... Seems to be VERY good....

[Ankerson]

36 minutes ago, Spotty said:

540 + 130 = 670

 

And that's not how that works. Unless you are suggesting your Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 750W is really only a 600W PSU since it's rated for max 100W on 3.3V and 5V combined.

 

Notice I didn't recommend that PSU to him, they are currently crazy price wise....

 

Instead I recommended the RMX or HX. Both can be had for normal prices....

[seon123]

1 minute ago, Ankerson said:

 

Notice I didn't recommend that PSU to him, they are currently crazy price wise....

 

Instead I recommended the RMX or HX.

I recommend you reread what they wrote. Again. 

[Ankerson]

6 minutes ago, seon123 said:

I recommend you reread what they wrote. Again. 

 

I wouldn't use either one, I stand by that..... There is NO way I would use either in my machine under any circumstances period....

 

I don't experiment with other peoples machines....

 

Especially with that kind of hardware...

[Spotty]

3 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

Notice I didn't recommend that PSU to him, they are currently crazy price wise....

 

Instead I recommended the RMX or HX. Both can be had for normal prices....

I used the Seasonic PSU listed in your signature as an example in the hopes that you would be better able to understand it if the example given was something you were more familiar with.

 

 

Also, can we just go back to the part where you think that 540W on 12V is not enough to power a 9700K + RTX 2080Ti?

55 minutes ago, Ankerson said:

You would blow the PSU with that system.....

 

That one is really only 540W on the 12V+...

 

Would be like trying to run a 9900K and 2080Ti on a 550W PSU.....

(You mentioned 9900K, however if you check the OP they list a 9700K)
 

A decent 550W PSU will easily run a 9700K (or 9900k) + 2080Ti. You will not "blow the PSU".

[Ankerson]

17 minutes ago, Spotty said:

I used the Seasonic PSU listed in your signature as an example in the hopes that you would be better able to understand it if the example given was something you were more familiar with.

 

 

Also, can we just go back to the part where you think that 540W on 12V is not enough to power a 9700K + RTX 2080Ti?

(You mentioned 9900K, however if you check the OP they list a 9700K)
 

A decent 550W PSU will easily run a 9700K (or 9900k) + 2080Ti. You will not "blow the PSU".

 

The 2080Ti can pull 380W by itself when overclocked..... I know because I have one and overclocked the crap out of it before. My FTW3 Ultra can pull more than some..... When pushed..... 

 

I thought I saw a 9900K?

 

But they can pull well over 200W easy also, then there is the rest of the system, had mine pull like 240W overclocked.. Power limits removed......

 

Have to think about worst case when recommending wattage because of spikes etc..

 

750W is right for a 9900K and 2080Ti.... 850W wouldn't be overboard either.

 

I had to scrap my Z370 Aorus gaming 5 due to the VRMS not being about to take the stress when really pushed. The Z390 Aorus Master is MUCH better and can take it.

 

Lessons learned on that one...

 

[MrBrightSyde]

20 hours ago, Ankerson said:

 

The 2080Ti can pull 380W by itself when overclocked..... I know because I have one and overclocked the crap out of it before. My FTW3 Ultra can pull more than some..... When pushed..... 

 

I thought I saw a 9900K?

 

But they can pull well over 200W easy also, then there is the rest of the system, had mine pull like 240W overclocked.. Power limits removed......

 

Have to think about worst case when recommending wattage because of spikes etc..

 

750W is right for a 9900K and 2080Ti.... 850W wouldn't be overboard either.

 

I had to scrap my Z370 Aorus gaming 5 due to the VRMS not being about to take the stress when really pushed. The Z390 Aorus Master is MUCH better and can take it.

 

Lessons learned on that one...

 

Do you even know what you are talking about? First off, you aren't going to be pulling both 200-250w from the CPU and 400w from the GPU at the same time realistically unless you are putting it under synthetic loads. Second off, if you are just gaming, you aren't going to consistently draw more than 150w with a 9900k (it does spike to 164w a couple times, but that's nothing) and the 2080Ti (depending on the model) is doing to draw no more than 350w during gaming loads unless you are doing more than a moderate overclock.

Third off, 850w IS overboard even with +100 watts as head-room. a 9900k and 2080ti is going to draw maybe 650w under synthetic loads, probably less though even with spikes, so a 750w would be the highest amount of wattage I would get for a single card build.

 

20 hours ago, Ankerson said:

 

I wouldn't use either one, I stand by that..... There is NO way I would use either in my machine under any circumstances period....

 

I don't experiment with other peoples machines....

 

Especially with that kind of hardware...

Also, the CXM gray-label is a perfectly fine PSU even for a high-end build. Is it recommended? No, but it's not going to harm anything if you do decide to use a CXM for a high-end build. Even the HP PSU is fine.

 

Wait, you are the Seasonic guy from a while back who hates the PSU tier list and thinks multi-rail is useless.

Yeah, this conversation isn't going anywhere, but I will say this: 550w is enough for a 9900k/2080ti build, wattage isn't everything, OP can use either PSU and be fine as they have good build quality, stop arguing with people so much and actually listen to them when they have more knowledge than you.

[Ankerson]

1 hour ago, MrBrightSyde said:

Do you even know what you are talking about? First off, you aren't going to be pulling both 200-250w from the CPU and 400w from the GPU at the same time realistically unless you are putting it under synthetic loads. Second off, if you are just gaming, you aren't going to consistently draw more than 150w with a 9900k (it does spike to 164w a couple times, but that's nothing) and the 2080Ti (depending on the model) is doing to draw no more than 350w during gaming loads unless you are doing more than a moderate overclock.

Third off, 850w IS overboard even with +100 watts as head-room. a 9900k and 2080ti is going to draw maybe 650w under synthetic loads, probably less though even with spikes, so a 750w would be the highest amount of wattage I would get for a single card build.

 

Also, the CX gray-label is a perfectly fine PSU even for a high-end build. Is it recommended? No, but it's not going to harm anything if you do decide to use a CX for a high-end build. Even the HP PSU is fine.

 

Wait, you are the Seasonic guy from a while back who hates the PSU tier list and thinks multi-rail is useless.

Yeah, this conversation isn't going anywhere, but I will say this: 550w is enough for a 9900k/2080ti build, wattage isn't everything, OP can use either PSU and be fine as they have good build quality, stop arguing with people so much and actually listen to them when they have more knowledge than you.

 

Says the one who is running an 800W PSU currently.... 

 

Don't recommend something you aren't actually running with the same hardware...... As in your own money on the line.....

 

That's called experimenting with others systems and money... Are you going to give the guy $3,500 or $4,000 if something happens?

 

If it's not recommended hardware then don't recommend it..... It really is that simple..... And it's not fair to the person looking for help.

 

Unlike some I do actually care about other peoples machines and that is the reason I recommend parts like I do.... I have seen a lot of very bad things happen over the decades when I was in the field.

 

If I wouldn't personally use it and buy it I don't recommend it period.....

 

I am here to actually try and help people, not play with their money experimenting. 

 

I do have an HX 750W coming for another machine that needs an upgrade..... Just waiting on the PSU to get here now... My Seasonic X 650W in that machine is getting close to warranty time limit....

 

The new tier list is much more realistic.... It's much better and detailed than the old one.

 

They really did a great job with the new one.

[quan289]

3 hours ago, Ankerson said:

 

You would blow the PSU with that system.....

 

That one is really only 540W on the 12V+...

 

Would be like trying to run a 9900K and 2080Ti on a 550W PSU.....

No, you would not. Because modern multi-rail PSUs generate the 12V output from a single regulated source (I can't think of a consumer DIY PSU with two physical 12V source in recent years). Then it get split off by two or more shunts to monitor the current and report it to the IC. It's not a physical limitation that will "blow".

 

Otherwise, the HP Omen with the i7 9900k and 2080ti that has a Delta platinum PSU with dual 45A 12V rails as well would have blow. https://www.amazon.com/HP-Computer-i9-9900K-Processor-875-1022/dp/B07QNZ8228

What it would do if it exceed the OCP of that 12V is merely shut off.

 

Setting aside you could power that system with a quality high-end 550w (apparently, modern GPUs have high transients spikes that can trip the OCP of lower wattage units, so I would go for a min of quality 650w especially if you are going to overclock), that system isn't going to be drawn from a single 45A rail. It will draw from both. Unless you are insinuating that this is 2005, where manufacturers have the cables set up in a way that the CPU and GPU are power off of just one 45A rail, while the HDD, SSD, ODD, mobo, RAM etc. is from the other 45A. Because it would not. Manufacturers and system builders have dealt with mult-rail units long enough to know how to set cables up so their PSU will not trip the OCP prematurely.

 

In fact they know how to set it up, that there have been a few occasion that a particular manufacturer label their multirail unit as single rail. These were some of Seasonic lineups. This was first noticed on the XFX variant, which hold true for their retail seasonic counterpart as well: http://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2012/01/23/xfx-pro-1250w-black-edition-power-supply/3/

 

[Ankerson]

5 minutes ago, quan289 said:

No, you would not. Because modern multi-rail PSUs generate the 12V output from a single regulated source. Then it get split off by two or more shunts to monitor the current and report it to the IC. It's not a physical limitation that will "blow".

 

Otherwise, the HP Omen with the i7 9900k and 2080ti that has a Delta platinum PSU with dual 45A 12V rails as well would have blow. https://www.amazon.com/HP-Computer-i9-9900K-Processor-875-1022/dp/B07QNZ8228

What it would do if it exceed the OCP of that 12V is merely shut off.

 

Setting aside you could power that system with a quality high-end 550w (apparently, modern GPUs have high transients spikes that can trip the OCP of lower wattage units, so I would go for a min of quality 650w especially if you are going to overclock), that system isn't going to be drawn from a single 45A rail. It will draw from both. Unless you are insinuating that this is 2005, where manufacturers have the cables set up in a way that the CPU and GPU are power off of just one 45A rail, while the HDD, SSD, ODD, mobo, RAM etc. is from the other 45A. Because it would not. Manufacturers and system builders have dealt with mult-rail units long enough to know how to set cables up so their PSU will not trip the OCP.

 

In fact they know how to set it up, that there have been a few occasion that a particular manufacturer label their multirail unit as single rail. These were some of Seasonic lineups. This was first noticed on the XFX variant, which hold true for their retail seasonic counterpart as well: http://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2012/01/23/xfx-pro-1250w-black-edition-power-supply/3/

 

 

I wouldn't go below a good high quality 750W for a 9900K and 2080Ti.... 750W is about perfect for that setup really.

[MrBrightSyde]

19 hours ago, Ankerson said:

 

Says the one who is running an 800W PSU currently.... 

 

Came with the prebuilt (all still under warranty) and I've been waiting for PSU prices to normalize, but sure, use that as a counter point

 

19 hours ago, Ankerson said:

Don't recommend something you aren't actually running with the same hardware...... As in your own money on the line.....

Shit, then most of the people on this forum couldn't recommend anything by your standards. Just go by professional reviews then if you want to bitch about people asking for advice.

 

19 hours ago, Ankerson said:

That's called experimenting with others systems and money... Are you going to give the guy $3,500 or $4,000 if something happens?

If it's not recommended hardware then don't recommend it..... It really is that simple..... And it's not fair to the person looking for help.

It's not recommended by the PSU tier list, but that doesn't mean you can't run a high-end system on a Tier B PSU with no problems. And it's not experimenting since reviewers actually reviewed the CXM, which is an okay PSU.

 

19 hours ago, Ankerson said:

Unlike some I do actually care about other peoples machines and that is the reason I recommend parts like I do.... I have seen a lot of very bad things happen over the decades when I was in the field.

 

I do care too, which is why I recommend OP to use the CXM he already has as it's a good PSU, but apparently you think it's not good enough. Anything could happen even to the best PSUs. For example, a couple years ago I've seen a Seasonic Prime Gold take out a friend's whole system. Does that mean it's a bad PSU? No, it was just a defective unit that unfortunately didn't only take itself out.

[Ankerson]

3 hours ago, MrBrightSyde said:

Came with the prebuilt (all still under warranty) and I've been waiting for PSU prices to normalize, but sure, use that as a counter point

 

Shit, then most of the people on this forum couldn't recommend anything by your standards. Just go by professional reviews then if you want to bitch about people asking for advice.

 

It's not recommended by the PSU tier list, but that doesn't mean you can't run a high-end system on a Tier B PSU with no problems. And it's not experimenting since reviewers actually reviewed the CX, which is a good PSU.

 

I do care too, which is why I recommend OP to use the CX he already has as it's a good PSU, but apparently you think it's not good enough. Anything could happen even to the best PSUs. For example, a couple years ago I've seen a Seasonic Prime Gold take out a friend's whole system. Does that mean it's a bad PSU? No, it was just a defective unit that unfortunately didn't only take itself out.

 

Some have stabilized already, all depends on what you are looking for and were you buy from.

 

I know the Corsair RMX and HX series on New Egg are close to original pricing. The HX 750 is backordered (Original pricing) and that is fine with me as I wasn't in a hurry so I can wait rather than pay the crazy markups.... So it should be here by the end of the month hopefully....

 

But yeah a lot of them are twice or 3 times the cost, if you can even get them.

[BlackManINC]

@Plappy

 

The Corsair one looks decent, although its missing over temperature protection as a feature. I don't know what to tell you about the other one. I never heard of Delta Electronics before. It says its platinum rated, but that's about it. I can't find anything about it anywhere about its protection features, no reviews, and the website is a hot mess to navigate. Also, it has HP on it as a logo, and I consider that a red flag in itself. When it comes to computers, HP is straight trash. I wouldn't touch anything computer related with their label on it even with a cattle prod except printers. 

[MrBrightSyde]

2 hours ago, BlackManINC said:

@Plappy

 

The Corsair one looks decent, although its missing over temperature protection as a feature.

The CXM gray-label does have OTP.

[seon123]

2 hours ago, BlackManINC said:

@Plappy

 

The Corsair one looks decent, although its missing over temperature protection as a feature. I don't know what to tell you about the other one. I never heard of Delta Electronics before. It says its platinum rated, but that's about it. I can't find anything about it anywhere about its protection features, no reviews, and the website is a hot mess to navigate. Also, it has HP on it as a logo, and I consider that a red flag in itself. When it comes to computers, HP is straight trash. I wouldn't touch anything computer related with their label on it even with a cattle prod except printers. 

If you haven't heard of one of the largest and reputable PSU OEMs.... Maybe you shouldn't be trying to give advice about PSUs.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, BlackManINC said:

@Plappy

 

The Corsair one looks decent, although its missing over temperature protection as a feature.

 

That's incorrect. All Corsair PSUs have OTP.

 

[Ankerson]

19 minutes ago, seon123 said:

If you haven't heard of one of the largest and reputable PSU OEMs.... Maybe you shouldn't be trying to give advice about PSUs.

 

Unless someone has worked on a lot of HP and Dell computers or other major OEM PC's they likely wouldn't know about Delta. Dell used to use a lot of PC Power and Cooling too...

 

It's not like they are consumer friendly as in stocked at your local PC supply store as an example.

 

The only real time one would really run into one if if they needed to replace a PSU in an OEM PC these days..

 

So that's not really surprising.

[Spotty]

54 minutes ago, MrBrightSyde said:

The CX gray-label does have OTP. Review by Aris confirms so.

The CX and CXM are different. OP Has the CXM in their photo. That's a review for the CX. They both have OTP though.

[MrBrightSyde]

Just now, Spotty said:

The CX and CXM are different. OP Has the CXM in their photo. That's a review for the CX. They both have OTP though.

You know what? I mixed up what we were talking about on this thread since I've been discussing the CX on reddit and here. Anyways, if it's the CXM (again my fault for mixing them up), I personally wouldn't use it for a high-end system either, but it still wouldn't be something that would kill the system OP is going for.

[seon123]

1 minute ago, Ankerson said:

 

Unless someone has worked on a lot of HP and Dell computers or other major OEM PC's they likely wouldn't know about Delta. Dell used to use a lot of PC Power and Cooling too...

 

It's not like they are consumer friendly as in stocked at your local PC supply store as an example.

 

The only real time one would really run into one if if they needed to replace a PSU in an OEM PC these days..

 

So that's not really surprising.

If someone has even the vaguest interest (and therefore (hopefully)) knowledge, they would have heard about the major PSU OEMs. CWT, GW, SS, SF, High Power, FSP, Delta, Chicony, Flextronics, Acbel... Probably more that I don't remember on the spot

[Ankerson]

12 minutes ago, seon123 said:

If someone has even the vaguest interest (and therefore (hopefully)) knowledge, they would have heard about the major PSU OEMs. CWT, GW, SS, SF, High Power, FSP, Delta, Chicony, Flextronics, Acbel... Probably more that I don't remember on the spot

 

Yeah there is more, but that doesn't matter much, some that aren't even around anymore these days.

 

My main point was to the MAJOR OEM PC's and the PSU's they use, and the servers too....

 

It's not like even in the reviews, the complete tear down ones people don't even bother with Delta, would be labeled Dell or HP.... It's not like they are pulling out PSU's from OEM machines and doing tear down reviews.

 

 

 

 

[CometLake]

Can I ask why people get over 650 watts for an high end gaming setup?

 

Even an intel i9 10900k (10th generation) + high end motherboard + 2080 Ti + 64 GB RAM, even with that high end setup you would be more than fine with a 650 watts high quality PSU.

 

Why get 750 or more watts for that setup?