Pico power supply help needed

[Bombastinator]

19 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

I don't disagree with you there. I never said that the pico would be enough, just disagree with @Bombastinatorabout motherboard power needs.

 

To @Mindtwister138 look into flexatx power supplies, plenty of power if the case can accept it. 

You don’t even do that.  You disagree with a methodology, and an old style number that for some reason seem to have come to very nearly the same final result.  You’re whining for the same of whining. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

2 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

I don't disagree with you there. I never said that the pico would be enough, just disagree with @Bombastinatorabout motherboard power needs.

 

To @Mindtwister138 look into flexatx power supplies, plenty of power if the case can accept it. 

FlexATX are terrible, noisy as hell.  I'm actually curious if we can find something myself as I have FlexATX in my NAS and tried to find something quieter, came up blank.

I in fact own a PicoPSU 150W I used on my old NAS and didn't feel comfortable using it on my new build.  So these are all things I have considered myself.

[Mindtwister138]

4 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Exactly.  So fudge factor.  
10w would absolutely be off by 50% low for an x570 itx with nothing on it but the chipset.  for a b450 you’ve got to worry about the b450 chipset, which is let’s call it 6 though it might not be, and anything else on the board.  You’re saying a bare board outside the chipset would be only 4w.  As long as you’re willing to pay for this guy’s system if he blows it up using your numbers I’m fine with that. @Mateyyy says he thinks most of it should fit.  I actually agree, the problem is should.  “Will” I can’t be certain, and until the thing is built and wall tested, or at the very least till every component is known there no way for me to be.  I’m saying 200 for safety because my numbers aren’t all that solid.  @Mateyyy is saying 150.  He may have better numbers than me. Given the LTT video do I think he’ll hit 100 or lower? No. I think it’s unlikely.  Things look more low mid 100s to me. But one never knows and USB3 carries a big monkey wrench so I’m saying 200 just to be sure. 
 

It would be kind of handy if we had this video the OP says he’s building his system off of.  If it was the LTT video I linked I stand by my statement. 

Here is the video I based my build on. I used the same case, motherboard, M.2 SSD, CPU, and RAM. I have added 2 1TB SSD as well. Also using the low profile fan and the 10mm mini fans too.

 

I hope this will help settle the debate that this has caused as well as help me figure out my solution.

 

Thanks again for the help everyone. I do appreciate it.

 

 

[Blue4130]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

You don’t even do that.  You disagree with a methodology, and an old style number that for some reason seem to have come to very nearly the same final result.  You’re whining for the same of whining. 

Where do I whine? I simply debate, and then you inject personal comments like a child. Grow up. I'm done. 

[Grabhanem]

9 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

Where do I whine? I simply debate, and then you inject personal comments like a child. Grow up. I'm done. 

This is the funniest post I've seen in a good while. Thanks for the laugh!

 

@Mindtwister138, OEMs use 160W PSUs with this type of system all the time, and most of those are still going strong after a decade or more. I wouldn't overclock on it, but for stock it should be fine.

[Mindtwister138]

1 hour ago, Grabhanem said:

This is the funniest post I've seen in a good while. Thanks for the laugh!

 

@Mindtwister138, OEMs use 160W PSUs with this type of system all the time, and most of those are still going strong after a decade or more. I wouldn't overclock on it, but for stock it should be fine.

I put my info into the Newegg wattage calculator and it shows that I need 134 Watts. Another site showed 152. 

 

That being said, I looked on Amazon for something a little higher that should be able to work, but I would like the opinion of the people here before I commit to it.

 

I'm thinking of the combination of the 
RGEEK 24pin DC ATX PSU 12V DC Input 250W Peak Output Switch DC-DC ATX Pico PSU Mini ITX PC along with the LEDwholesalers 12V 20A 240W AC/DC Power Adapter with 5.5x2.5mm DC Plug and 2.1mm Adapter, Black, 3262-12V for the complete power setup.

 

Will this actually work? I don't think it would come close to drawing the 250 Watts, but I don't know a lot about this, so I trust what you guys say.

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, Mindtwister138 said:

Here is the video I based my build on. I used the same case, motherboard, M.2 SSD, CPU, and RAM. I have added 2 1TB SSD as well. Also using the low profile fan and the 10mm mini fans too.

 

I hope this will help settle the debate that this has caused as well as help me figure out my solution.

 

Thanks again for the help everyone. I do appreciate it.

 

 

The video helps a lot.  If it’s a tested system which it apparently is, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work as tested.  I’m remembering the original parts differently.  I remember a rog strix itx and a 2400g but that’s irrelevant I guess. 
 

The argument wasn’t even about the system but about my use of an old fudge factor number to do derivation without a complete parts list to determine what could or could not be done.  Not even much to do with the build really.   I apologize for participating in something that discomfited you.  I’m not sure what other option I might have had though. 

 

the machine in the video is doing a very very stripped down thing.  Only 8gb of memory for one. 2x4gb. Apparently the 2400x was too much because he mentioned trying one and testing wall power at the beginning of the video but such things seem to not be mentioned towards the end so I suspect that as built the thing is pretty close to 150 watt. The case in the video doesn’t even have USB3 ports on it which simplifies that one. 
 

I remember claims of over 300watt in some calculators but I’m not seeing them atm. either.  Again, doesn’t really matter I guess. If you can get a bigger PSU you can do more things.  Faster apu, more faster memory.  More useful ports. 

[Mindtwister138]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The video helps a lot.  If it’s a tested system which it apparently is, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work as tested.  I’m remembering the original parts differently.  I remember a rog strix itx and a 2400g but that’s irrelevant I guess. 
 

The argument wasn’t even about the system but about my use of an old fudge factor number to do derivation without a complete parts list to determine what could or could not be done.  Not even much to do with the build really.   I apologize for participating in something that discomfited you.  I’m not sure what other option I might have had though. 

 

the machine in the video is doing a very very stripped down thing.  Only 8gb of memory for one. 2x4gb. Apparently the 2400x was too much because he mentioned trying one and testing wall power at the beginning of the video but such things seem to not be mentioned towards the end so I suspect that as built the thing is pretty close to 150 watt. The case in the video doesn’t even have USB3 ports on it which simplifies that one. 
 

I remember claims of over 300watt in some calculators but I’m not seeing them atm. either.  Again, doesn’t really matter I guess. If you can get a bigger PSU you can do more things.  Faster apu, more faster memory.  More useful ports. 

I have 2x8gb RAM in this one. That and in addition to the M.2, I've added 2 SSD drives. Besides that. I left everything the same as his build. 

 

I wasn't discomforted by the debate, I just didn't understand any of it...lol! No need to apologise for it.

 

With that, what is your opinion on the 2 parts I listed as far as the PSU goes?

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Mindtwister138 said:

I have 2x8gb RAM in this one. That and in addition to the M.2, I've added 2 SSD drives. Besides that. I left everything the same as his build. 

 

I wasn't discomforted by the debate, I just didn't understand any of it...lol! No need to apologise for it.

 

With that, what is your opinion on the 2 parts I listed as far as the PSU goes?

What I think that thing was all about:

Spoiler

basically it was about how to do specific kinds of approximation math without having a complete system to even look at.  Not something that matters now, or even did then, really.  He didn’t like the way I was doing it.  I agreed with him.  I don’t have anything better though and so far as I could tell neither did he. 

I don’t know how much more power they will draw.  

In which I try to figure it out anyway:

Spoiler

To make a really really ugly fudge filled  guesstimate about sata SSDs and do more of that ugly guess math @Blue4130 rather justifiably hated with the exception that this time the inexactitude actually IS my fault. 
 

Hopefully you can find something better than this:
  

SSDs draw more peak power than HDDs.  They do it for less time so actual total power used to read or write a given thing is not very far apart but PSUs care about peak power. 
according to this chart: https://www.anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung-ssd-850-evo-review/10

if a drive is sleeping and reading and writing all at the same time (which or course can’t be true) and is the worst drive available at all of those, (Which apparently also isn’t true) it wouldn’t draw more than about 15w a drive.  It’s almost certainly less. As I said, a really ugly guesstimate.  I found a specific comparison where a specific SATA SSD was more like 4.7, but we don’t know which model you got and the source was reddit which I don’t trust, so dig out the can of brown chocolate sauce. 

The m.2 probably uses less than the sata  drives but it seems unlikely to me to be much more and there’s a lot of fudge in that sata SSD number already so if we call it a third SATA drive it’s hard to err on the side of not enough. 

we know that the base machine will work on a 150w PSU because a dude did it on YouTube.  No idea what it actually did draw because he omitted that from the video.  Can’t be more than 150 though so let’s call it that.  150w +(15w x3) = 210w.  According to this https://www.crucial.com/support/articles-faq-memory/how-much-power-does-memory-use

it should be something on the order of another 3w.   

  I doubt very much that even together an m.2 and a couple sata drives and more memory will be enough to  eat the extra 100w added by that 250w pico PSU you mentioned.  As was stated my knowledge is limited compared to others here.  My guesstimates will suck more than most so have to be even more conservative.  Finding out wall power draw after it is all together might be a useful thing.  With luck there will be plenty more to play with for something else. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Mindtwister138]

On 8/15/2020 at 11:48 PM, Bombastinator said:

What I think that thing was all about:

  Reveal hidden contents

basically it was about how to do specific kinds of approximation math without having a complete system to even look at.  Not something that matters now, or even did then, really.  He didn’t like the way I was doing it.  I agreed with him.  I don’t have anything better though and so far as I could tell neither did he. 

I don’t know how much more power they will draw.  

In which I try to figure it out anyway:

  Reveal hidden contents

To make a really really ugly fudge filled  guesstimate about sata SSDs and do more of that ugly guess math @Blue4130 rather justifiably hated with the exception that this time the inexactitude actually IS my fault. 
 

Hopefully you can find something better than this:
  

SSDs draw more peak power than HDDs.  They do it for less time so actual total power used to read or write a given thing is not very far apart but PSUs care about peak power. 
according to this chart: https://www.anandtech.com/show/8747/samsung-ssd-850-evo-review/10

if a drive is sleeping and reading and writing all at the same time (which or course can’t be true) and is the worst drive available at all of those, (Which apparently also isn’t true) it wouldn’t draw more than about 15w a drive.  It’s almost certainly less. As I said, a really ugly guesstimate.  I found a specific comparison where a specific SATA SSD was more like 4.7, but we don’t know which model you got and the source was reddit which I don’t trust, so dig out the can of brown chocolate sauce. 

The m.2 probably uses less than the sata  drives but it seems unlikely to me to be much more and there’s a lot of fudge in that sata SSD number already so if we call it a third SATA drive it’s hard to err on the side of not enough. 

we know that the base machine will work on a 150w PSU because a dude did it on YouTube.  No idea what it actually did draw because he omitted that from the video.  Can’t be more than 150 though so let’s call it that.  150w +(15w x3) = 210w.  According to this https://www.crucial.com/support/articles-faq-memory/how-much-power-does-memory-use

it should be something on the order of another 3w.   

  I doubt very much that even together an m.2 and a couple sata drives and more memory will be enough to  eat the extra 100w added by that 250w pico PSU you mentioned.  As was stated my knowledge is limited compared to others here.  My guesstimates will suck more than most so have to be even more conservative.  Finding out wall power draw after it is all together might be a useful thing.  With luck there will be plenty more to play with for something else. 

That sounds fair to me.

 

One other question though, if I get a 250 watt PSU, and a 240 watt brick for the wall plug, will that work, or do I need a bigger wall plug?

 

If it'll work, I'll go with that. I don't expect I'll ever get close to using the 250 ever, but if like to err on the side of caution.

 

Thanks again to everyone for your help. Choosing a PSU has been the hardest part of my build. It's my first and everything was going well until this point.

[Bombastinator]

12 minutes ago, Mindtwister138 said:

That sounds fair to me.

 

One other question though, if I get a 250 watt PSU, and a 240 watt brick for the wall plug, will that work, or do I need a bigger wall plug?

 

If it'll work, I'll go with that. I don't expect I'll ever get close to using the 250 ever, but if like to err on the side of caution.

 

Thanks again to everyone for your help. Choosing a PSU has been the hardest part of my build. It's my first and everything was going well until this point.

“Wall plug” could mean a couple things in this case.  If you use a 240w power brick it will be a 240w PSU.  I think that is still in range. If you draw a full 250w on a 240w brick the brick will blow before the stuff in the computer.

assuming you literally mean wall plug:

Spoiler

My desktop has a 650w (grotesque overkill) PSU and goes into a 10amp UPS which goes to a standard 110v 15amp wall socket using 14ga solid core THHN (I ran it myself  ) this is very bog standard US house wiring. Nothing heats up unduly.  Before the UPS there was a 10amp surge protector power strip. A standard 110v 15amp US socket will take a 1500w device no problem, though it’s kind of upper range and you don’t want too many other things on the circuit.  Bathrooms and kitchens are species for 20amp circuits because of hair dryers and blenders and things.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Mindtwister138]

11 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

“Wall plug” could mean a couple things in this case.  If you use a 240w power brick it will be a 240w PSU.  I think that is still in range. If you draw a full 250w on a 240w brick the brick will blow before the stuff in the computer.

assuming you literally mean wall plug:

  Reveal hidden contents

My desktop has a 650w (grotesque overkill) PSU and goes into a 10amp UPS which goes to a standard 110v 15amp wall socket using 14ga solid core THHN (I ran it myself  ) this is very bog standard US house wiring. Nothing heats up unduly.  Before the UPS there was a 10amp surge protector power strip. A standard 110v 15amp US socket will take a 1500w device no problem, though it’s kind of upper range and you don’t want too many other things on the circuit.  Bathrooms and kitchens are species for 20amp circuits because of hair dryers and blenders and things.

 

You got it right, I did mean power brick. I think I'm going to buy that and see what happens. Would you all like an update when I finish?

 

I think I may also but some kind of device to see what my power draw is (hopefully I'm stating this correctly), to see how much it actually pulls with everything installed and turned on.