Last of Us 2 discussion

[JZStudios]

With TLOU2 now being released and all embargos lifted, I'm curious as to peoples opinions on the final product. I find the dialogue and teenage drama to be exceptionally weak. The opening of the game just being a recap of the very simple plot from the first game is frankly horrible. I've never seen a game do that before outside of an optional bit in some RPGs. Unlike the first games masterclass of an opening, this starts with just a story recap and then dives immediately into dumb teen drama stemming from the initial reveal trailer which isn't actually in the final game. Which also 100% confirms my suspicion that it was super awkward for Ellie and very forced. Then she gets a "bigot sandwich."

[gloop]

I have played about 5 hours, not happy with how the story has gone but the gameplay and graphics are enjoyable. 
 

also, please have spoiled in a ‘spoiler’ tab so no experience gets ruined. 

[RasmusDC]

i simply can´t play the game, and i loved the first one.. i am a 41 year old guy, and playing the role of a teenage girl, simply just feels wrong by me... 

 

so for me the removal of Joel as the main character, made the game not interesting, so the game has been made into something not for me. I must also say that the focus on "supporting" the LGBT environment in this game, just also just not make it for me. i am 100% okay with this part of the world, it just does not interest me..

 

and teenagers love life, and "issues" just has no interest for me... and the "spoiler" that has been leaked, on gameplay evolution 2 hours in the game, has me even less interested.

 

i get it that the world is in a different place now than 20 years ago. even though being gay and lesbian at least in our area, even in the outskirts of Denmark, was not an issue, and not looked down on, my wife's father was gay (dead now, died of AIDS) and who really cares..

 

it just feel i am getting it stuffed in may face (whatever it is, not just this), and to be honest, if there is something i do not like, it is being told how to feel, and what to like. when i look at the PS5 launch title, it also seems like it is not okay anymore, to be "me".....

 

i hope this game finds its audience, it looks well made, the AI looks really well done, the story mode, and the gore.. to be honest, that makes it seem a bit.. all over the place. since it caters to different areas of clients... 

 

I guess i just got old... it is fun how simple things, just moves you from being a "avid" gamer, and then being a bit "away" from it, as to what you find interesting.

[JZStudios]

6 hours ago, gloop said:

I have played about 5 hours, not happy with how the story has gone but the gameplay and graphics are enjoyable. 
 

also, please have spoiled in a ‘spoiler’ tab so no experience gets ruined. 

What spoiler? The intro? It's the first 15 minutes.

As to the story, it gets worse. And then it gets worse again. And again. In terms of gameplay it's tedious and Naughty Dog has never actually had good gameplay in my opinion. The game heavily relies on rather poor stealth mechanics and unoptimized level design. If you enjoy it, that's fine, but playing through the ND games they all have pretty rough gameplay.

6 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

i simply can´t play the game, and i loved the first one.. i am a 41 year old guy, and playing the role of a teenage girl, simply just feels wrong by me... 

 

so for me the removal of Joel as the main character, made the game not interesting, so the game has been made into something not for me. I must also say that the focus on "supporting" the LGBT environment in this game, just also just not make it for me. i am 100% okay with this part of the world, it just does not interest me..

 

and teenagers love life, and "issues" just has no interest for me... and the "spoiler" that has been leaked, on gameplay evolution 2 hours in the game, has me even less interested.

 

i get it that the world is in a different place now than 20 years ago. even though being gay and lesbian at least in our area, even in the outskirts of Denmark, was not an issue, and not looked down on, my wife's father was gay (dead now, died of AIDS) and who really cares..

 

it just feel i am getting it stuffed in may face (whatever it is, not just this), and to be honest, if there is something i do not like, it is being told how to feel, and what to like. when i look at the PS5 launch title, it also seems like it is not okay anymore, to be "me".....

 

i hope this game finds its audience, it looks well made, the AI looks really well done, the story mode, and the gore.. to be honest, that makes it seem a bit.. all over the place. since it caters to different areas of clients... 

 

I guess i just got old... it is fun how simple things, just moves you from being a "avid" gamer, and then being a bit "away" from it, as to what you find interesting.

If it makes you feel any better you also play as a super ripped ?? year old girl.

You're not alone, there's people in the LGBT community that aren't fans of it either, and the cast is actually almost impossibly diverse. There's a greek bi, an asian dude, a super ripped chick, a trans, a lesbian, etc. It's crazy how many people are born gay in the apocalypse. I also heard some British accents or something, which is super interesting.

 

It definitely starts with teen drama and honestly the game just from there decides to do a bunch of random flashbacks instead of linear storytelling for no real reason. So much so to the point that I'm 90% sure certain elements would have far more impact if they played out in a linear fashion.

 

Outside of the environments, I'd say it's not that well done. Level design isn't particularly amazing, with pretty standard gameplay mechanics that have been done far better by many other titles years ago. The AI also isn't much improved outside of having far greater numbers and multiple factions, like humans and infected, but the Left Behind DLC did that too. As to the gore, it doesn't really bother me, but this game just soaks in it. I kept hearing a lot of reviews talk about how the gore was too much, and it is. It's almost absurdly comical.

 

Overall, outside of graphics I'd give the game a solid 4/10, in the terms that I don't want to finish it but there's still an amount of production value in it. The story, the "message" the forced diversity (Neil directly said he was forcing it), the mediocre game design, the bad pacing, characters, dialogue, etc. is all just frankly terrible.

[gloop]

6 hours ago, JZStudios said:

What spoiler? The intro? It's the first 15 minutes.

As to the story, it gets worse. And then it gets worse again. And again. In terms of gameplay it's tedious and Naughty Dog has never actually had good gameplay in my opinion. The game heavily relies on rather poor stealth mechanics and unoptimized level design. If you enjoy it, that's fine, but playing through the ND games they all have pretty rough gameplay.

I meant hat if anyone is talking about spoilers, please put them in a spoiler tab. I wasn’t directly addressing you. 

[Kawaii Koneko]

I have no problem with the LGBT stuff in this game, or in media in general, as long as it isn't being done for virtue signaling or thrown in last minute in an attempt to get ratings or attract attention. Hell, I'm quite the fan of yuri anime because I enjoy a good love story and cute girls being cute together is always enjoyable. That said, I don't know how this game is handling it or what the motives are behind writing the game this way. But given the current political climate resulting in constant pandering from companies, I'm always suspicious.

 

On 6/20/2020 at 8:25 PM, JZStudios said:

...and the cast is actually almost impossibly diverse. There's a greek bi, an asian dude, a super ripped chick, a trans, a lesbian, etc. It's crazy how many people are born gay in the apocalypse. I also heard some British accents or something, which is super interesting.

Of course, I an can see these things existing in the apocalypse but when they are thrown in together in such a small world, it does start to make you feel like they are pandering at worst or just being unrealistic at best. But I haven't played the game yet so I need to see the context before passing judgement. I also need to see where you encounter these characters such as if they are in urban areas where the LGBT community has a greater presence and it would make sense to encounter more people like that? Like, from a proportional perspective does it make sense?

 

On 6/20/2020 at 8:25 PM, JZStudios said:

You're not alone, there's people in the LGBT community that aren't fans of it either,

Most reasonable people don't like being pandered to so that doesn't surprise me.

 

 

On 6/20/2020 at 1:29 PM, RasmusDC said:

so for me the removal of Joel as the main character, made the game not interesting, so the game has been made into something not for me. I must also say that the focus on "supporting" the LGBT environment in this game, just also just not make it for me. i am 100% okay with this part of the world, it just does not interest me..

I actually find that kind of stuff interesting. I'm a straight CIS male but I think it can make for some compelling storytelling. Overcoming barriers, social expectations, etc can make for a good love story. But like I said, when it becomes about pandering or preaching, then I lose interest.

On 6/20/2020 at 1:29 PM, RasmusDC said:

i simply can´t play the game, and i loved the first one.. i am a 41 year old guy, and playing the role of a teenage girl, simply just feels wrong by me... 

 

and teenagers love life, and "issues" just has no interest for me...

 

 

Meanwhile I'm 34 and most of my anime watching consists of high school slice of life stuff with cute girls doing cute things. 

 

 

Anyway...

 

Spoiler

I'm personally quite disappointed about Joel being written out of the game and there seems to be a A LOT of salt surrounding that online. The relationship that formed between him and Ellie was what made the first one so interesting and compelling. To just throw that away and write Joel off feels like a slap in the face to fans. It makes me feel like Naughty Dog is tone deaf and they don't realize why fans liked the first game so much.

 

I can't tell you how many posts I've seen online where people say they are just going to pretend the second game doesn't exist. I've honestly lost a lot of my enthusiasm to play it. I still think I will, just to give it a chance but I'm not in a rush to that's for sure. It's pretty low on my list right now whereas my hype for the first game was so high that it was one of the first games I played on my PS3 when I bought it. I even replayed it when it came out on the PS4.

[JZStudios]

2 hours ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

I have no problem with the LGBT stuff in this game, or in media in general, as long as it isn't being done for virtue signaling or thrown in last minute in an attempt to get ratings or attract attention. Hell, I'm quite the fan of yuri anime because I enjoy a good love story and cute girls being cute together is always enjoyable. That said, I don't know how this game is handling it or what the motives are behind writing the game this way. But given the current political climate resulting in constant pandering from companies, I'm always suspicious.

I don't particularly have a huge issue with it, in the sense that it's fine for it to exist, but I'm not into being forced to watch gay stuff. Sorry, but I'm just not into it. For that matter, I also recently played through GTAV since it went free on Epic and I'm also not huge on being introduced to Trevor in a rather similar situation.

As to pandering and putting the stuff in, Neil Druckmann literally cherry picked his cast including a trans person who's vehemently racist against white people. This person is also trans in game.

2 hours ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

Of course, I an can see these things existing in the apocalypse but when they are thrown in together in such a small world, it does start to make you feel like they are pandering at worst or just being unrealistic at best. But I haven't played the game yet so I need to see the context before passing judgement. I also need to see where you encounter these characters such as if they are in urban areas where the LGBT community has a greater presence and it would make sense to encounter more people like that? Like, from a proportional perspective does it make sense?

I like the fact that you could play through the entire first game and not once did anyone mention their sexuality, or bigots, or anything else. Why? Because it doesn't matter. It doesn't add anything to the story. At most you could surmise that maybe Joel and Tess had a slight attraction. The sequel is up to it's ears in it. Out of the main cast, like 3 aren't "minorities" of some description. Gays, lesbians, trans, super ripped chicks, Asians, blacks, they're all here. It's more like a romp through a San Francisco pride parade than a post apocalypse.

I'd like to already point out that there's nothing wrong with minorities so I don't get a "So what your saying is blacks are awful" comment. The first game had Tess, Ellie, Sam, and Henry and they were all great. They were also actors that got hired because they were good, and not because they're trans. Probably. Henry might've been written as a black guy, I don't know. Bill was also gay in the first game, and it wasn't ever explicitly talked about because it didn't matter. In fact, it mattered so little it was left up to the actor to determine if Bills partner Frank was that kind of partner. 

2 hours ago, Kawaii Koneko said:

I actually find that kind of stuff interesting. I'm a straight CIS male but I think it can make for some compelling storytelling. Overcoming barriers, social expectations, etc can make for a good love story. But like I said, when it becomes about pandering or preaching, then I lose interest.

I just don't think that's really an issue. Gays are practically praised in a lot of areas now. I also think it's incredibly unimportant during a zombie apocalypse. Like, there's just more important shit going on than "OMG Dona kissed Ellie. That's like, so craycray." That's about the level of intelligence and dialogue in this game.

 

Given your thoughts in the spoiler... honestly I'd say just watch the game online. There's not a whole lot of gameplay in the first two hours, which is where a lot of people are having issues. There's no cute in this game. It's just endless violence and gore for the sake of violence of gore, to the point it frankly honestly makes Mortal Kombat look like a game for toddlers, and the only message is that revenge and violence is bad.

Spoiler

There's a "miniboss" that you start off fighting by stabbing him in the spine with a sickle. Somehow he's totally fine, so after a few more sickle swings you stab him in the neck, somehow he's still fine, more sickle swings, and each swing you can see the cuts and blood in high detail, and eventually you slash at his face until his jaw is barely hanging and he's still fighting. It literally just doesn't end.

 

[RasmusDC]

On 6/21/2020 at 3:25 AM, JZStudios said:

What spoiler? The intro? It's the first 15 minutes.

As to the story, it gets worse. And then it gets worse again. And again. In terms of gameplay it's tedious and Naughty Dog has never actually had good gameplay in my opinion. The game heavily relies on rather poor stealth mechanics and unoptimized level design. If you enjoy it, that's fine, but playing through the ND games they all have pretty rough gameplay.

If it makes you feel any better you also play as a super ripped ?? year old girl.

You're not alone, there's people in the LGBT community that aren't fans of it either, and the cast is actually almost impossibly diverse. There's a greek bi, an asian dude, a super ripped chick, a trans, a lesbian, etc. It's crazy how many people are born gay in the apocalypse. I also heard some British accents or something, which is super interesting.

 

It definitely starts with teen drama and honestly the game just from there decides to do a bunch of random flashbacks instead of linear storytelling for no real reason. So much so to the point that I'm 90% sure certain elements would have far more impact if they played out in a linear fashion.

 

Outside of the environments, I'd say it's not that well done. Level design isn't particularly amazing, with pretty standard gameplay mechanics that have been done far better by many other titles years ago. The AI also isn't much improved outside of having far greater numbers and multiple factions, like humans and infected, but the Left Behind DLC did that too. As to the gore, it doesn't really bother me, but this game just soaks in it. I kept hearing a lot of reviews talk about how the gore was too much, and it is. It's almost absurdly comical.

 

Overall, outside of graphics I'd give the game a solid 4/10, in the terms that I don't want to finish it but there's still an amount of production value in it. The story, the "message" the forced diversity (Neil directly said he was forcing it), the mediocre game design, the bad pacing, characters, dialogue, etc. is all just frankly terrible.

to be honest, i don´t like playing as "girls" and not even boys of young age.. after becoming a parent it just feels more wrong for me today..

 

it has nothing to do with the aspect of lifestyle... 

 

i do however feel a person more robust, is better....

if the person is CARTOON like strong, and robust, it might be easier.

 

For instance i love the Uncharted series, simply because it is more "light" and fun, i have enough of shit in my life, that i need to seek it out in games. and well the guys are older, and it seems more like a choice that something you are forced into..

 

and yes i still live a bit in an enviroment, where we protect girls more than boys, that is wrong i get it. i do know that have i had girls instead of a boy i would have been even more protective than i am with my 5 year old, even though i might be really protective of him.

[mrober445]

I haven't played it but did watch a video explaining the story, honestly they did Joel too damn dirty, and the ending was really unsatisfying, Graphics look beautiful but they really f****d up the storytelling. Below is a great vid that in my opinion really talks about most of TLOU II's issues.

Spoiler

 

 

[Lord Vile]

Don’t mind the entire gay thing etc. But it has to serve a purpose. You don’t need to show them necking off with everyone of the same sex if it’s just there for tokenism. Same as if you had a meaningless relationship with straight characters, what’s the point? It’s just filler.

[JZStudios]

10 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

to be honest, i don´t like playing as "girls" and not even boys of young age.. after becoming a parent it just feels more wrong for me today..

You mean you don't want to feel like Spider-Man? I mean, 19 year old lesbian? I don't think being a parent means you can't play games where you control a kid, that's a bit silly. It's certainly your choice, but there's nothing wrong with it.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do when you get old? Just stop playing games because you can't play as someone who's 60?

10 hours ago, cuntydumplin445 said:

I haven't played it but did watch a video explaining the story, honestly they did Joel too damn dirty, and the ending was really unsatisfying, Graphics look beautiful but they really f****d up the storytelling. Below is a great vid that in my opinion really talks about most of TLOU II's issues.

 

It's interesting he gave it a 55 considering how much the story sucks and he hates it, and given how "fine" the combat is that got really tedious and boring. Maybe it's just me, but if a game is tedious, boring, has shit story, and makes me not want to play it it's not an above average game. The average game I'll finish rather contently.

[Nine Tailed Fox]

[GreaseySleezy]

this game kicked me roite in the dick... on fathers day too... *sigh* it really is 2020 huh...

[JZStudios]

2 hours ago, GreaseySleezy said:

this game kicked me roite in the dick... on fathers day too... *sigh* it really is 2020 huh...

My problem with people complaining about that is the game is far worse than that. It's not like if that didn't happen the game would be any better.

[RasmusDC]

20 hours ago, JZStudios said:

You mean you don't want to feel like Spider-Man? I mean, 19 year old lesbian? I don't think being a parent means you can't play games where you control a kid, that's a bit silly. It's certainly your choice, but there's nothing wrong with it.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do when you get old? Just stop playing games because you can't play as someone who's 60?

It's interesting he gave it a 55 considering how much the story sucks and he hates it, and given how "fine" the combat is that got really tedious and boring. Maybe it's just me, but if a game is tedious, boring, has shit story, and makes me not want to play it it's not an above average game. The average game I'll finish rather contently.

what i am saying is playing a person of young age, put in that type of enviroment, YES that is wrong to me, as a parent i AIM towards people not being in these kinds of situations, why would i seek them..

 

and no a superhero is something different, it is a person with power. and to be honest, i tried spiderman, i really have no joy of that game either, i love the new spider man movies, with a spiderman a bit "nervous" and young and immature, but playing him, that´s just not me..

 

i play a lot of games now, there is also something that divides teenagers from adulthood.. so it is not a "progressive age" thing, it is more, that i my head there is "immature" and Mature, when looking at persons.  so not like, it has to be the same age, again mature vs immature.. (and sorry Ellie is not mature, she is forced to react to a harsh world, so reacting the way she does, is something "surroundings" forces upon her, to survive).

 

at times it is immature of mind. that is also an important factor.. 

 

there are things i had no problems with at a younger age, than i do now, like molestation of a child in a movie. or in anyways abandonment of babies, i really don´t find any value in watching things like that, i just makes me feel sad. i also remember i stopped watching the AWESOME series of UBOAT, because of the rape of a women in a french bar. it simply just felt so wrong. for me..

 

the world is sad enough as it is, so yes in my older ages, i seek more "loose" and fun stories, even though it might be filled with murder, and death. that is also why i see no value in this story.. it has a full absence of light, Part one, had hope, it had love and episodes of joy. no dark story has value unless it is sprinkled with light. 

 

But i guess the world has just gone dark.. to be honest that is something i really would hate. 

 

Part 2 for me is also more a glorifcation of violence, by using it more as the tool of "disgust" that for me is the most unintelligent way of captivating an audience, it´s like when watching something horror like, there are to types, the extreme goriness, and the ones playing on your senses, i fell part 2 went to the GORE part, where part one, had a bit of intelligence in it, although still rough and gory.

[JZStudios]

2 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

snip

It was primarily a joke. A lot of IGN reviews and similar tend to say things like "It really makes you feel like ____." You can enter pretty much anything in there. They can also vastly criticize a game to a point it seems like they hate it and the final score is a 7/10 "It has a little something for everyone."

 

As to the gore, see you're misunderstanding. TLOU2 is gory because violence is bad. How else could they show that without gratuitous violence and gore?

[gloop]

Ok, have made it to the part in the trailer where she is grabbed by Joel and

 

Spoiler

like wtf?!?! replacing Joel with Jesse makes no sense? 

 

[JZStudios]

14 minutes ago, gloop said:

Ok, have made it to the part in the trailer where she is grabbed by Joel and

 

  Hide contents

like wtf?!?! replacing Joel with Jesse makes no sense? 

 

Marketing and advertising yo. That shit is straight up false for no reason other than fuck you. Sure some trailers have some minor things change, but it's not like the Joel situation was a last minute decision. Most famously is MGS2 and Kojima saying and only showing the Tanker mission where you play as Snake. That at least had an in-game narrative reason and he didn't show footage that was straight up lying.

[gloop]

10 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Marketing and advertising yo. That shit is straight up false for no reason other than fuck you. Sure some trailers have some minor things change, but it's not like the Joel situation was a last minute decision. Most famously is MGS2 and Kojima saying and only showing the Tanker mission where you play as Snake. That at least had an in-game narrative reason and he didn't show footage that was straight up lying.

Yeah, as I was playing through the combat section i was wondering what charcter they would replace Joel with, and I thought Tommy would have been the best fit.

 

Jesse felt like he had no connection other than being with DIna before the story starts.

[GreaseySleezy]

22 hours ago, JZStudios said:

My problem with people complaining about that is the game is far worse than that. It's not like if that didn't happen the game would be any better.

hey to each his own man... if you like it, more power to you, you're a sicker fuck than me...

[Giganthrax]

Graphics are great, gameplay is adequate, and the story is trash. The characters in particular are empty and lifeless and angsty, and they talk a lot about nothing. 

 

Overall, it's playable. I'd say 3/5. 

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, and this is the first TLOU game I played. If you're a fan of the first one, you're probably going to really hate this one because of what they did to the characters. 

[JZStudios]

3 hours ago, GreaseySleezy said:

hey to each his own man... if you like it, more power to you, you're a sicker fuck than me...

I'm very confused. The fact that Joel gets the Rockstar treatment doesn't especially bother me because it's a game. I just feel like it's a disservice to focus on that when there's so much more that's much worse. I never said I liked it, but especially after the leaks it's not like it was unexpected and it's frankly not that surprising that it happened. Some people say it's the way it happened, others just seem upset that it happened, but really the rest of the game is just not good and having that not happen wouldn't make it any better.

 

29 minutes ago, Giganthrax said:

Graphics are great, gameplay is adequate, and the story is trash. The characters in particular are empty and lifeless and angsty, and they talk a lot about nothing. 

 

Overall, it's playable. I'd say 3/5. 

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, and this is the first TLOU game I played. If you're a fan of the first one, you're probably going to really hate this one because of what they did to the characters. 

Dunkey gave it a 4/5, which I find surprising considering some of his other reviews. He seems to think they did a good job humanizing Abby, but I've not seen anyone else of that opinion, more have the exact opposite. He also mentioned how they randomly bring up hours old, long forgotten characters as a plus. Just seemed like an odd review, and naturally no one in the comments said anything intelligent.

[Giganthrax]

8 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Dunkey gave it a 4/5, which I find surprising considering some of his other reviews. He seems to think they did a good job humanizing Abby, but I've not seen anyone else of that opinion, more have the exact opposite. He also mentioned how they randomly bring up hours old, long forgotten characters as a plus. Just seemed like an odd review, and naturally no one in the comments said anything intelligent.

As the guy who played, finished, and enjoyed Agony and Metal Gear Survive, I can understand when someone likes a game that everyone else hates. It happens. Opinions are like aholes and all that. 

 

IMHO, wait for a sale before buying TLOU2, or borrow it from a friend. I think it's worth experiencing. Not my cup of tea personally, but not a terrible game by any stretch. 

[JZStudios]

3 hours ago, Giganthrax said:

As the guy who played, finished, and enjoyed Agony and Metal Gear Survive

Gross.

[GreaseySleezy]

All i know is I understand why people dont trust gaming websites anymore. It's almost like they never played the game or they played a different game.