question Why does static electricity cause damage?

[Corbinhol]

So I have no personal experience with this question, I'm just genuinely curious if anyone knows, Why does ESD cause damage?

I have been searching up online some possible answers and sadly none seem to explain WHY, only that it does it. I don't just mean

"Because its electricity, stupid!" I mean what happens in the components that cause them to die or damage.

[Firewrath9]

Static = big voltage -> stuff designed for little voltage = overload -> circuits fry and break

[Beerzerker]

When you get popped by it you are taking a hit with some serious voltage behind it BUT the actual amount of electricity is so small it doesn't really do any harm to you.
For electronics it's different, regardless of the actual amount of electricity it's being induced at such a high voltage it, as said above makes things break.

[Tsuki]

think tiny lightning bolt shooting out of your finger into whatever electronics you're holding.   thats whats happening.

 

when i was building servers i saw a few instances of ESD burning out parts of the motherboard, but physical damage is rare.   usually it causes issues that are hard to diagnose, ram or processor not clocking correctly, maybe a usb port not working, graphics card not getting enough power. just weird shit, often people think the motherboard is doa, when actually they fried it on accident without realizing it.

 

[Falkentyne]

See Thor.  See Thor point finger.  See Thor finger shoot lighting.  See Thor finger shoot lighting and see electronic explode.  See Hulk Smash.  See Thor immune to lighting.  See human be like Thor and blow up 9900k for the Ryzen God.  See Raiden make you his disciple.

 

[Lord Vile]

16 hours ago, Corbinhol said:

So I have no personal experience with this question, I'm just genuinely curious if anyone knows, Why does ESD cause damage?

I have been searching up online some possible answers and sadly none seem to explain WHY, only that it does it. I don't just mean

"Because its electricity, stupid!" I mean what happens in the components that cause them to die or damage.

Essentially a lot of components have a very small amount of voltage that can pas through them without wrecking it essentially. For example if you put much more than 0.8V into a diode that’s designed for 0.6-0.8V It’s not gonna work anymore. 

[Dedayog]

17 hours ago, Corbinhol said:

So I have no personal experience with this question, I'm just genuinely curious if anyone knows, Why does ESD cause damage?

I have been searching up online some possible answers and sadly none seem to explain WHY, only that it does it. I don't just mean

"Because its electricity, stupid!" I mean what happens in the components that cause them to die or damage.

 

After that, did you look into electricity and how it works?  Fascinating stuff, worth your time.

 

 

[akio123008]

ESD has a large effect on integrated electronics (microchips etc, not so much on larger components) for a number of reasons.

 

There are 2 reasons that I'm aware of;

1. As a static buildup provides a very high voltage, it results in a very large current through the component (U = IR so if U is large, and R is constant, I becomes larger too) and because the microscopic traces and components on say a chip are (by orders of magnitude) not designed for such currents they get destroyed.

 

2. Circuits may short out because the (also very small scale) insulators break down because of the high voltage possibly applied across them. In the worst case the short is permanent, but even if it isn't, the circuit has likely been destroyed while the short took place.

 

 

[Lord Vile]

1 minute ago, akio123008 said:

ESD has a large effect on integrated electronics (microchips etc, not so much on larger components) for a number of reasons.

 

There are 2 reasons that I'm aware of;

1. As a static buildup provides a very high voltage, it results in a very large current through the component (U = IR so if U is large, and R is constant, I becomes larger too) and because the microscopic traces and components on say a chip are (by orders of magnitude) not designed for such currents they get destroyed.

 

2. Circuits may short out because the (also very small scale) insulators break down because of the high voltage possibly applied across them. In the worst case the short is permanent, but even if it isn't, the circuit has likely been destroyed while the short took place.

 

 

Since when has Voltage been U lol. 

[akio123008]

3 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Since when has Voltage been U lol. 

Apparently it's kind of a mainland European thing. I personally like it because the unit has a different letter than the symbol.

[Lord Vile]

2 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

Apparently it's kind of a mainland European thing. I personally like it because the unit has a different letter than the symbol.

Bloody weirdos. U is for internal energy. V is Voltage, v is velocity and ν (Greek letter nu the font here doesn’t make it obvious) is frequency.

[Mojo-Jojo]

To clarify here: U in Europe is indeed to signify a voltage, but is not the "unit" voltage, which is still abbreviated V. In some examples you might see E instead of U.

Examples:

U = 2 V
or
E = 2 V

Other than that, I have not much else to contribute here. Most semiconductors' internal structures break down at high voltages, by causing physical damages (like holes). MOSFETs are notoriously sensitive, and are basically the basis of almost all IC's these days.

[Lord Vile]

8 hours ago, Mojo-Jojo said:

To clarify here: U in Europe is indeed to signify a voltage, but is not the "unit" voltage, which is still abbreviated V. In some examples you might see E instead of U.

Examples:

U = 2 V
or
E = 2 V

Other than that, I have not much else to contribute here. Most semiconductors' internal structures break down at high voltages, by causing physical damages (like holes). MOSFETs are notoriously sensitive, and are basically the basis of almost all IC's these days.

I get E I know why that used but U is just dumb. A MOSFET is just a fancy transistor (I know it’s what the T stands for) and if you put too much Voltage in it’ll just blow the thing.

[Mojo-Jojo]

4 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

I get E I know why that used but U is just dumb. A MOSFET is just a fancy transistor (I know it’s what the T stands for) and if you put too much Voltage in it’ll just blow the thing.

Ir's true that the T stands for Transistor, but MOSFET's and Transistors are completely different. They're both used differently, and have completely different characteristics.

 

Normal transistors operate on base currents. They amplify the base current by allowing current to pass through collector and emitter. Because they operate on input current, they're less efficient but more robust. Voltages/spikes have much less of an impact, because they conduct the energy and thereby clamp the voltage  They're also basically linear/analog components.

 

MOSFETs on the other hand operate on gate voltage, not current. They completely rely on the voltage applied to the gate, not the current. so they're much more sensitive, but way more efficient because they have a much smaller linear region, therefore almost always being completely on or off, not somewhere in between.

[Lord Vile]

30 minutes ago, Mojo-Jojo said:

Ir's true that the T stands for Transistor, but MOSFET's and Transistors are completely different. They're both used differently, and have completely different characteristics.

 

Normal transistors operate on base currents. They amplify the base current by allowing current to pass through collector and emitter. Because they operate on input current, they're less efficient but more robust. Voltages/spikes have much less of an impact, because they conduct the energy and thereby clamp the voltage  They're also basically linear/analog components.

 

MOSFETs on the other hand operate on gate voltage, not current. They completely rely on the voltage applied to the gate, not the current. so they're much more sensitive, but way more efficient because they have a much smaller linear region, therefore almost always being completely on or off, not somewhere in between.

Not really a transistor is still a semi conductor requires an activation voltage and breaks down if you give it too much. A mosfet is just a type of transistor that uses the PNP/NPN layer differently. 

[akio123008]

1 hour ago, Mojo-Jojo said:

Ir's true that the T stands for Transistor, but MOSFET's and Transistors are completely different.

Well if by "transistor" you mean BJT then yes indeed. Generally though, a MOSFET is considered a type transistor. 

 

5 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

I get E I know why that used but U is just dumb. 

U for voltage seems to come from the German word "Unterschied*" which means "difference" which is actually kind of descriptive. Here's my view on it: 

  -V for voltage doesn't seem right as the unit Volt is also written as V meaning you can get things like V = 5V.

  -E stands for energy which is such an incredibly common symbol that I refuse to use it for voltage.

 

U is the best we have because it's a different letter than the unit uses, and even though internal energy uses the symbol U, that isn't as frequently encountered as energy, in EE. It's far from perfect, but it doesn't have the issues V and E have.

 

I agree the downside is the use of a German word, so perhaps we can use O instead . 

 

*Proper translation provided by @Curious Pineapple

 

[Curious Pineapple]

Older TTL electronics are pretty robust and generally take static discharge just fine. MOS technology however doesnt due to the construction. MOS devices use a piece of either P or N type silicon (or sometimes both in the case of a J-FET) which is non conductive, and a gate. The silicon and the gate are seperate by a layer of aluminium oxide (the MO(Metal Oxide) part of MOS). A high enough voltage blows through that insulating layer and shorts the gate to the silicon which prevents the build up of an electric field, killing the device.

[greenhorn]

31 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

U for voltage seems to come from the German word "Unterscheit" which means "difference" which is actually kind of descriptive. Here's my view on it: 

  -V for voltage doesn't seem right as the unit Volt is also written as V meaning you can get things like V = 5V.

  -E stands for energy which is such an incredibly common symbol that I refuse to use it for voltage.

The German word you are looking for is "Unterschied".
There are many ways to define a nomenclature, it just needs to be properly defined and used consistently. I have always been taught to use U for voltage, E is the electric field strength. If you run out of letters, you can always use different font styles when writing in LaTeX for example.
As for V = 5V, if you set that properly in LaTeX, those Vs will look differently because the second one with corresponds to the unit will be upright, so you have to use \mathrm{V} in math mode or use a package like siunitx that does it automatically.

[akio123008]

1 minute ago, greenhorn said:

The German word you are looking for is "Unterschied".

Thanks.

 

2 minutes ago, greenhorn said:

As for V = 5V, if you set that properly in LaTeX, those Vs will look differently because the second one with corresponds to the unit will be upright, so you have to use \mathrm{V} in math mode or use a package like siunitx that does it automatically.

That's assuming everything you do is in LaTeX or a text editor to begin with.

[Lord Vile]

43 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

Well if by "transistor" you mean BJT then yes indeed. Generally though, a MOSFET is considered a type transistor. 

 

U for voltage seems to come from the German word "Unterschied*" which means "difference" which is actually kind of descriptive. Here's my view on it: 

  -V for voltage doesn't seem right as the unit Volt is also written as V meaning you can get things like V = 5V.

  -E stands for energy which is such an incredibly common symbol that I refuse to use it for voltage.

 

U is the best we have because it's a different letter than the unit uses, and even though internal energy uses the symbol U, that isn't as frequently encountered as energy, in EE. It's far from perfect, but it doesn't have the issues V and E have.

 

I agree the downside is the use of a German word, so perhaps we can use O instead . 

 

*Proper translation provided by @Curious Pineapple

 

That’s just dumb. You generally don’t put units into an equation unless you’re trying to find the unit because it’s just makes things longer. You use for example V=0.2x10 so V = 2. If you wanted to be pedantic it would be V = 2 AΩ for this equation. 

 

O isn’t using for it being confused with 0. 

[akio123008]

26 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

That’s just dumb. You generally don’t put units into an equation unless you’re trying to find the unit because it’s just makes things longer. You use for example V=0.2x10 so V = 2

I agree that it usually doesn't matter, and V is fine, it's just that I don't like using the same letter for both. Also it just depends on what you're used to, I tend to write U without even thinking about it and so do many other people. 

 

 

[TomvanWijnen]

56 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

That’s just dumb. You generally don’t put units into an equation unless you’re trying to find the unit because it’s just makes things longer. You use for example V=0.2x10 so V = 2. If you wanted to be pedantic it would be V = 2 AΩ for this equation.

Either I'm missing something or this is just not true? I've been learned that you always need to add a unit to your answer, so U = 0.2*10 = 2 V. How else would you denote kV and mV?

[akio123008]

13 minutes ago, TomvanWijnen said:

Either I'm missing something or this is just not true? I've been learned that you always need to add a unit to your answer, so U = 0.2*10 = 2 V. How else would you denote kV and mV?

Well you're quite right in the sense that at any exam or test you usually lose points for not writing down units (especially in final answers). In most situations though, you could write down "V is the voltage in kV" or "V is the voltage in mV" once, let's say at the top of a page and then in all calculations from there skip the unit. 

[Lord Vile]

13 minutes ago, TomvanWijnen said:

Either I'm missing something or this is just not true? I've been learned that you always need to add a unit to your answer, so U = 0.2*10 = 2 V. How else would you denote kV and mV?

You cut the units out for the equation so it’s V = 0.2*10 = 2 Volts. You add the units in after. You don’t write V = 0.2A*10Ω because that gets to being an arse when you’re writing even PV=nRT with a couple of values swapped out. 

[Mojo-Jojo]

20 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

Not really a transistor is still a semi conductor requires an activation voltage and breaks down if you give it too much. A mosfet is just a type of transistor that uses the PNP/NPN layer differently. 

A "normal" transistor operates on base current, although I'll agree that the base-emitter voltage needs to be at least ~0.7 V before they start working. Of course, if you give them too many volts, they'll break down just as easily. But because there's conductivity from the base to the emitter path, this voltage is reached less easily.

 

20 hours ago, akio123008 said:

Well if by "transistor" you mean BJT then yes indeed. Generally though, a MOSFET is considered a type transistor.

Yep, I did.

 

18 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

You cut the units out for the equation so it’s V = 0.2*10 = 2 Volts. You add the units in after. You don’t write V = 0.2A*10Ω because that gets to being an arse when you’re writing even PV=nRT with a couple of values swapped out. 

With unitless amplifications and gains and a singular unit like Voltage, then usually I would agree with this statement. If you're working with multiple units, like actual resistances and currents, it's really good form to write them out explicitly. No unit implies a gain or factor.