What makes a 2080 Ti so expensive??

[GamerBlake]

Is there something in the manufacturing process or material or parts that make a 2080 Ti cost over $1,000?

 

I noticed there is a huge gap in the price between a 2070/2070 Super and a 2080 Ti.

 

But what is the reason for it?

 

Is Nvidia just charging as much as they can? Or is there something about it that it super expensive to make them?

 

All I can think is that the 11GB of GDDR6 vram is more than the other models have but even the 1660 Ti has GDDR6 vram.

 

Or maybe they number of cores?

 

This is just a curiosity question. I know even the 1080 Ti wasn’t over $1,000 so I’m curious why the next generation 2080 Ti is.

[PopsicleHustler]

2080Ti is more of a rebranded Titan. It has huge amount power in it.

[Fasauceome]

It has no competition, therefore the price is super high. It doesn't cost an insane amount to make, it's just what they can get away with.

[Badger906]

Just now, GamerBlake said:

Is there something in the manufacturing process or material or parts that make a 2080 Ti cost over $1,000?

 

I noticed there is a huge gap in the price between a 2070/2070 Super and a 2080 Ti.

 

But what is the reason for it?

 

Is Nvidia just charging as much as they can? Or is there something about it that it super expensive to make them?

 

All I can think is that the 11GB of GDDR6 vram is more than the other models have but even the 1660 Ti has GDDR6 vram.

 

Or maybe they number of cores?

 

This is just a curiosity question. I know even the 1080 Ti wasn’t over $1,000 so I’m curious why the next generation 2080 Ti is.

Before all the butt hurt people flock in saying its just NVIDIA charging extra as their defence for not being able to afford one. You have to remember peoples only metric is previous gen cost. This doesn't factor cost of R&D, production, marketing, projection of sales etc.. NVIDIA stated that their rtx cores had been in development 10years. So that is 10years of research there. Then they launched at a time when ram prices were 3 times what they are now. They had to buy sufficient stock or yields to make it worth investing in.

 

If you go back to 2006 the 8800gtx ultra cost $899.. That was 14 years ago.. Adjust that for inflation and you'll see it wasn't cheaper.

Plus everyone gives NVIDIA a hard time. Yet AMD release the vega 7, it performs the same as a 2080, costs the same.. And yet NVIDIA rip people off. Surely if amd could have made it cheaper to sell more they would have done...

[Badger906]

1 minute ago, Fasauceome said:

It has no competition, therefore the price is super high. It doesn't cost an insane amount to make, it's just what they can get away with.

How much does it cost then? As you know more than the average consumer. Also what was the development cost?? Shed some light please so we can use the data to work out how much profit they're making!

[Metallus97]

2 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

It has no competition, therefore the price is super high. It doesn't cost an insane amount to make, it's just what they can get away with.

 

1 minute ago, Badger906 said:

Before all the butt hurt people flock in saying its just NVIDIA charging extra as their defence for not being able to afford one. You have to remember peoples only metric is previous gen cost. This doesn't factor cost of R&D, production, marketing, projection of sales etc.. NVIDIA stated that their rtx cores had been in development 10years. So that is 10years of research there. Then they launched at a time when ram prices were 3 times what they are now. They had to buy sufficient stock or yields to make it worth investing in.

 

If you go back to 2006 the 8800gtx ultra cost $899.. That was 14 years ago.. Adjust that for inflation and you'll see it wasn't cheaper.

Plus everyone gives NVIDIA a hard time. Yet AMD release the vega 7, it performs the same as a 2080, costs the same.. And yet NVIDIA rip people off. Surely if amd could have made it cheaper to sell more they would have done...

Pretty much a combination oft this 

[Metallus97]

Just now, Badger906 said:

How much does it cost then? As you know more than the average consumer. Also what was the development cost?? Shed some light please so we can use the data to work out how much profit they're making!

Chill bro!

It costs not much more than making a non ti or a 2070 thats the point he wanted to make. R&D cost you have to see combined for the whole generation of cards for one barand.

But the MARGIN is waaaaaay up on that 2080ti. And thats the usual cost for "the big boy" + they can charge more because they have no competition. We have seen this on the CPU market to.

[GamerBlake]

3 minutes ago, Badger906 said:

Before all the butt hurt people flock in saying its just NVIDIA charging extra as their defence for not being able to afford one. You have to remember peoples only metric is previous gen cost. This doesn't factor cost of R&D, production, marketing, projection of sales etc.. NVIDIA stated that their rtx cores had been in development 10years. So that is 10years of research there. Then they launched at a time when ram prices were 3 times what they are now. They had to buy sufficient stock or yields to make it worth investing in.

 

If you go back to 2006 the 8800gtx ultra cost $899.. That was 14 years ago.. Adjust that for inflation and you'll see it wasn't cheaper.

Plus everyone gives NVIDIA a hard time. Yet AMD release the vega 7, it performs the same as a 2080, costs the same.. And yet NVIDIA rip people off. Surely if amd could have made it cheaper to sell more they would have done...

So basically they’re not trying to rip people off they’re just trying to recoup the R&D and make some profit?

 

 

[GamerBlake]

1 minute ago, Metallus97 said:

Chill bro!

It costs not much more than making a non ti or a 2070 thats the point he wanted to make. R&D cost you have to see combined for the whole generation of cards for one barand.

But the MARGIN is waaaaaay up on that 2080ti. And thats the usual cost for "the big boy" + they can charge more because they have no competition. We have seen this on the CPU market to.

I did notice it was HUGE.

 

It takes up almost 3 full slots (2.75) so I’m curious what it is that makes it so huge? Do they cram more stuff in?

 

I know the heatsink and fans are taking up a lot of space but even the barebones looking FE 2080 Ti is a monster in size.

[Metallus97]

Just now, GamerBlake said:

So basically they’re not trying to rip people off they’re just trying to recoup the R&D and make some profit?

 

 

they are doing both. 

Super low end is only possible because of higher cost parts. The margins are tight.

Middle of the road is where the big $$ comes in

High end is much more $$ revenue per sold unit but since there are not that much sales compared to mid level cards... mid level still earns you more.

In gerenall i am pretty sure they could make the card cheaper by a good amount, but wont because the CAN charge that much. I mean 2080tis are still sold good.

@Badger906 got one according to his profile and I bet it games NICE

[Badger906]

1 minute ago, GamerBlake said:

So basically they’re not trying to rip people off they’re just trying to recoup the R&D and make some profit?

 

 

In short yeah. The target sales for it are much lower due to its cost. So that has an effect.

Think of it as a car. A ferrari costs 250k, it doesn't have 250k worth of carbon fibre in it, nor does its engine cost that much.

But they'll have spent a few hundred million designing it and testing it. They may only predict to sell 1000 models. So the cost of R&D, production, advertisement, testing, legal fees etc etc have to be divided by those predicted sales. Then slap on a mark up fee for profits

[GamerBlake]

7 minutes ago, Badger906 said:

Before all the butt hurt people flock in saying its just NVIDIA charging extra as their defence for not being able to afford one. You have to remember peoples only metric is previous gen cost. This doesn't factor cost of R&D, production, marketing, projection of sales etc.. NVIDIA stated that their rtx cores had been in development 10years. So that is 10years of research there. Then they launched at a time when ram prices were 3 times what they are now. They had to buy sufficient stock or yields to make it worth investing in.

 

If you go back to 2006 the 8800gtx ultra cost $899.. That was 14 years ago.. Adjust that for inflation and you'll see it wasn't cheaper.

Plus everyone gives NVIDIA a hard time. Yet AMD release the vega 7, it performs the same as a 2080, costs the same.. And yet NVIDIA rip people off. Surely if amd could have made it cheaper to sell more they would have done...

So basically it’s because it’s at the bleeding edge of technology and all that development and research costs sunk into making it requires a hefty price tag?

[Metallus97]

Just now, GamerBlake said:

I did notice it was HUGE.

 

It takes up almost 3 full slots (2.75) so I’m curious what it is that makes it so huge? Do they cram more stuff in?

 

I know the heatsink and fans are taking up a lot of space but even the barebones looking FE 2080 Ti is a monster in size.

 

How big it is is down to EVGA in your case, not Nvidia. Thats because this card is build to OC and with a proper OC can draw serious power

[Mira Yurizaki]

Part of it is that the 2080 Ti by itself is an expensive part to make. Firstly, the cost per transistor has sort of flat-lined once we hit 28nm. The 2080 Ti is a 18.6 billion transistor part, compared to say the 13.6 billion of the 2070/2080 and the 12 billion of the 1080 Ti, or by comparison, the 10 billion transistor RX 5700 XT.

 

The second part is that the chip itself is relatively huge, so there's going to be less yield per wafer compared to a smaller chip. If I use https://caly-technologies.com/die-yield-calculator/ and plug in just the area of the die (I'm using a square root because they want H x W and I don't have this) on a 450mm wafer, leaving the rest alone, I get about 81 good chips, 83 bad chips, and 16 partial chips (basically bad chips). If I do the same thing on the Radeon 5700 XT, I end up with 422 good chips, 118 bad chips, and 16 partial chips.

 

These two factors have to be made up somehow. NVIDIA isn't going to sell hardware at a loss.

[Fasauceome]

10 minutes ago, Badger906 said:

How much does it cost then? As you know more than the average consumer. Also what was the development cost?? Shed some light please so we can use the data to work out how much profit they're making!

I have as much insight as you so your point is moot

 

all I have to go on are what people in the industry say, and people like Steve from Gamers Nexus (who does in fact have knowledge of some of the production costs and development from industry contacts) says nvidia makes big margins on the 2080 ti.

 

And besides, think about it the other way around. If the 2080 ti released and had to compete with something, it would be dead in the water if the price was exorbitantly high. Instead, you had the 2080 matching the 1080 ti in both price and performance, despite the "R&D cost" driving the supposed pricing of manufacturing up.

[Metallus97]

Just now, Badger906 said:

In short yeah. The target sales for it are much lower due to its cost. So that has an effect.

Think of it as a car. A ferrari costs 250k, it doesn't have 250k worth of carbon fibre in it, nor does its engine cost that much.

But they'll have spent a few hundred million designing it and testing it. They may only predict to sell 1000 models. So the cost of R&D, production, advertisement, testing, legal fees etc etc have to be divided by those predicted sales. Then slap on a mark up fee for profits

+ a markup for the brand. But thats normal. Especially in the car business, but also true in hardware

[GamerBlake]

1 minute ago, Metallus97 said:

they are doing both. 

Super low end is only possible because of higher cost parts. The margins are tight.

Middle of the road is where the big $$ comes in

High end is much more $$ revenue per sold unit but since there are not that much sales compared to mid level cards... mid level still earns you more.

In gerenall i am pretty sure they could make the card cheaper by a good amount, but wont because the CAN charge that much. I mean 2080tis are still sold good.

@Badger906 got one according to his profile and I bet it games NICE

I have one too (an EVGA XC2 Ultra 2080 Ti) but it just doesn’t make sense to overprice it and sell less of them than to cut the cost and sell more of them.

 

If they sold say 100 of them at $900 each they would make more than if they sold 50 of them at $1200.

[Metallus97]

1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Part of it is that the 2080 Ti by itself is an expensive part to make. Firstly, the cost per transistor has sort of flat-lined once we hit 28nm. The 2080 Ti is a 18.6 billion transistor part, compared to say the 13.6 billion of the 2070/2080 and the 12 billion of the 1080 Ti, or by comparison, the 10 billion transistor RX 5700 XT.

 

The second part is that the chip itself is relatively huge, so there's going to be less yield per wafer compared to a smaller chip. If I use https://caly-technologies.com/die-yield-calculator/ and plug in just the area of the die (I'm using a square root because they want H x W and I don't have this) on a 450mm wafer, leaving the rest alone, I get about 81 good chips, 83 bad chips, and 16 partial chips (basically bad chips). If I do the same thing on the Radeon 5700 XT, I end up with 422 good chips, 118 bad chips, and 16 partial chips.

 

These two factors have to be made up somehow. NVIDIA isn't going to sell hardware at a loss.

yes that is true! But still there is an extra tax added for it being the fastest and being without competition at the top of the stack (at the moment... lets see and hope for the rad guys)

[steelo]

It is a premium NVidia product. Even their low-mid grade GPU's are overpriced. 

 

I am not a big fan of their business practices in general...

[Zando_]

3 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

n gerenall i am pretty sure they could make the card cheaper by a good amount, but wont because the CAN charge that much. I mean 2080tis are still sold good.

Also then they'd start cannibalizing the sales on their mid-high range cards that make more money due to a higher volume sold. 

[Metallus97]

1 minute ago, GamerBlake said:

I have one too (an EVGA XC2 Ultra 2080 Ti) but it just doesn’t make sense to overprice it and sell less of them than to cut the cost and sell more of them.

 

If they sold say 100 of them at $900 each they would make more than if they sold 50 of them at $1200.

This is also about establishing price points!

Think about apple iPhone X was one of the first units for over 1k$ that sold in big volume. Now were used to 1k phones at the top end 

[Metallus97]

1 minute ago, steelo said:

It is a premium NVidia product. Even their low-mid grade GPU's are overpriced. 

 

I am not a big fan of their business practices in general...

lol me to. But sadly thats true to SOOOOOOO Manny things and brands and basically how our markets work.

Dimishing returns for your $$

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, Metallus97 said:

yes that is true! But still there is an extra tax added for it being the fastest and being without competition at the top of the stack (at the moment... lets see and hope for the rad guys)

Ultimately though, the 2080 Ti is a premium part. It's the creme de la creme. I feel like complaining that the 2080 Ti is too expensive is like complaining a Porche or a Mercedes is too expensive.

[GamerBlake]

2 minutes ago, Badger906 said:

In short yeah. The target sales for it are much lower due to its cost. So that has an effect.

Think of it as a car. A ferrari costs 250k, it doesn't have 250k worth of carbon fibre in it, nor does its engine cost that much.

But they'll have spent a few hundred million designing it and testing it. They may only predict to sell 1000 models. So the cost of R&D, production, advertisement, testing, legal fees etc etc have to be divided by those predicted sales. Then slap on a mark up fee for profits

But think of it this way..

If you were Ferrari would you want to sell 1000 models at $250K each ($2.5 million).

 

OR 3000 models at say $200K each?
 

The lower the price the more buyers there are.

 

It seems like a lot more people bought 1080 Tis and 980 Tis because once they crossed that $1,000 mark it seems to have turned people off and sent them looking for something else like a 5700 XT or 2080 Super.

[Metallus97]

1 minute ago, Zando Bob said:

Also then they'd start cannibalizing the sales on their mid-high range cards that make more money due to a higher volume sold. 

yes!