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Incredibly massive water cooler

emosun
By emosun
in Custom Loop and Exotic Cooling
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Posted

I've never seen somebody try a water cooler that had massive throughput.

In terms of..... we know that a cpu can heat up water in a loop enough that it needs a rad to cool it down. But if you had a massive volume of water moving incredibly fast , like a fire hose , the cpu would have obviously very little effect on that much water.

Imagine a 3" x 3" square aluminum pipe running over top the cpu , with very high pressure water moving very fast , from a massive source , like a pool. I don't think the cpu would have the ability to ever even heat the aluminum with that much water passing over it. 

I think it would be a fun video/experiement , not practical less you have free electricity and an infinite water source.

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It's called every modern day high performance cluster. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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have you seen the pipes in a Google datacenter?google-datacenter-tech-05.max-1100x1100.thumb.jpg.463a6f7620be8bbf6037ede19c385642.jpg

 

it's basically what you describe, but over many, many servers.

 

would be pretty interesting to see at what flowrate you would stop seeing the CPU temp rise.

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Not a lot. A common watercooler flow probably already qualifies as long as it's not in a loop. 

 

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7 minutes ago, RollinLower said:

it's basically what you describe, but over many, many servers.

yeah i'm talking about flow rate over a single cpu not a warehouse thats water cooled with a bunch of air cooled servers using cold air

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8 minutes ago, emosun said:

single cpu not a warehouse thats water cooled

there comes a time where diminishing returns comes into play, cooling a cpu with so much water costs so  more than you think , especially water pumps, usually water pumps are the most expensive thing in a water loop because of how much energy it takes to move water around, so builds are usually constricted by that price, also the water just acts to transfer heat to the air so even if the radiator and such is the same it just means that the water takes more time to heat up, an increase in performance is related to increase in surface area of radiator much more than increase in water flow rate, so the obvious improvement is radiator size, and people increase the pumps only if the pressure drop or head loss is too much across a radiator 

 

btw from laws of cooling you need two things surface area and high temperature difference, from radiator, if the temperature is low (based on high flow) your heat transfer will be very poor to the air no matter how much surface area you have, so thats why you never find a cpu at basically room temp, unless you use a refrigeration cycle, which can them provide a suitable delta temperature to bring it to room temperature or below

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10 minutes ago, Tamesh16 said:

 

thats great and all but I dont recall mentioning using a radiator nor this being practical

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21 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Not a lot. A common watercooler flow probably already qualifies as long as it's not in a loop. 

I'm thinking that the large flow rate would pretty much remove there needing to be a block of any kind , essentially just a square tube only needing to be as thick as the pressure requires. Meaning the cpu itself simply cannot heat up because the water is so close to it.

so rather than a chuck of metal being kept cold by water , it would just be closer to water actually cooling the cpu instead.

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20 minutes ago, emosun said:

yeah i'm talking about flow rate over a single cpu not a warehouse thats water cooled with a bunch of air cooled servers using cold air

Actually most HPCs now days are watercooled with blocks on the IHS or direct dye. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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4 minutes ago, emosun said:

thats great and all but I dont recall mentioning using a radiator nor this being practical

No one will do it, does it or would care to, because the results are obvious given science - is what he is saying.  Your statement is you have never seen one - and the resounding answer is "for a reason".  Anyhow Linus did a video recently just using temperature on a water with a reservoir and used dye coloring that was temperature sensitive so he could see when the water lost its ability to stay cool enough blah blah.

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LTT have already tried to do this, just not quite on the same scale that you describe. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Anyhow Linus did a video recently just using temperature on a water with a reservoir and used dye coloring that was temperature sensitive so he could see when the water lost its ability to stay cool enough blah blah.

and his res was a pool , and his flow rate was hundreds of gallons a minute right?

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2 minutes ago, Brennan Price said:

just not quite on the same scale that you describe. 

yeah...... not the same scale

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If you live next to a river, just route some metal pipes through it and hook up a pump to that. The amount of cold water that can never get saturated by heat would give you that result.

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As said to cool a CPU there is no reason to use a pool or a massive throughput, so that's never going to make an impressive video like you suggest it would.

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Just now, RejZoR said:

If you live next to a river, just route some metal pipes through it and hook up a pump to that. The amount of cold water that can never get saturated by heat would give you that result.

yeah , like that , and also a giant pump as well. you got the idea

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2 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

As said to cool a CPU there is no reason to use a pool or a high flow, so that's never going to make an impressive video like you suggest it would.

ah , thats why nobody made a video using liquid nitrogen to cool a cpu

no reason to do that , boring video i'm sure

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2 minutes ago, emosun said:

ah , thats why nobody made a video using liquid nitrogen to cool a cpu

no reason to do that , boring video i'm sure

Vince or K|ngP|n made a custom loop that runs off liquid nitrogen.spacer.png 

 

 

 

 

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▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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The thing is, if you loop warm water too quickly through the loop, radiator doesn't really have the time to suck heat from the water. The speed needs to be just right for best effect.

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4 minutes ago, emosun said:

ah , thats why nobody made a video using liquid nitrogen to cool a cpu

no reason to do that , boring video i'm sure

 

 

LN2 allows to bring the CPU to cryogenic temps, water doesn't. 

 

Point is, in your scenario you'll already cool the CPU as much as you could with say 1l/min, so throwing 1000l/min at it just for no reason is not going to be "cool" or anything. 

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2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

if you loop warm water too quickly through the loop

ah well there wouldn't be a loop so good thing that wouldn't be an issue. or even if there was a loop the cpu wouldn't be enough to actually affect the temperature of the loop at any time due to the size of it

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3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Point is, in your scenario you'll already cool the CPU as much as you could with say 1l/min, so throwing 100l/min at it just for no reason is not going to be "cool" or anything.

darn if only we had an existing video where they showed that massive throughput of a type of cooling resulted in hitting the maximum possible result of that specific type

it's not like they went out and got a bunch of giant blowers to force an insane amount of air over a machine or something and made that a video.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM2G5vLGcQQ

 

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4 hours ago, RollinLower said:

have you seen the pipes in a Google datacenter?google-datacenter-tech-05.max-1100x1100.thumb.jpg.463a6f7620be8bbf6037ede19c385642.jpg

 

it's basically what you describe, but over many, many servers.

 

would be pretty interesting to see at what flowrate you would stop seeing the CPU temp rise.

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Below I make a lot of simplifications, the real physics is much more complicated and I'm not going to put that much effort in right now. Nevertheless this approximation should be fairly accurate.

 

Here's the equation for specific heat.

 

ΔQ = mcΔT

 

Where ΔQ is the amount of heat energy, m is the mass, c is the specific heat of the material (water in this case so 4.186 j/g/C or 4186 j/L/K), and ΔT is the temperature difference.

 

A typical high-end CPU outputs about 100W (or 100 j/s) of heat. To keep the CPU temp stable the water must remove the same 100W of heat. Putting this all together, below is a plot showing the temperature increase assuming a highly efficient water block. 

 

image.png.6f3f8044a4690884b0f9adc29bcf4b8c.png

 

It takes less than 0.1 L/sec to keep the water temperature from increasing more than 1 degree. This isn't that much. Only 6L per minute, about the flow rate of a kitchen sink. Far less than a fire hose (500+ L/min).

 

However the flow rate at the water block really doesn't matter. All it's doing to moving heat out of the computer; that heat still has to go somewhere. Typically this is where radiators come in, but what about a single large tank instead? Here I'll use Newton's Law of Cooling to approximate the heat dissipation by a large steel tank. 

 

Q/t = hAΔT

 

Where Q/t is the rate of heat dissipation, h is the heat transfer coefficient, A is the surface area, and ΔT is the temperature difference. For a steel tank surrounded by air, h is about 10 W/m2/C. ΔT will be 1 degree since this is how much the CPU is heating the water from above. Same as above, to keep the water from heating up over time, the tank must dissipate the same amount of heat that the CPU output's, 100W.

 

Solving for A, the surface area of the tank must be at least 10 m2. Assuming a square cubic tank, each side will be about 1.3m and when full hold a total of 2200L of water, about the same as a small hot tub. Using the flow rate of 0.1 L/s from before it will take a little over 6 hours to run through the full volume of this tank.

 

tldr; it doesn't take much water to cool the CPU but without radiators it does take a sizable volume of stagnant water to dissipate the heat

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13 hours ago, harryk said:

tldr; it doesn't take much water to cool the CPU but without radiators it does take a sizable volume of stagnant water to dissipate the heat

 

giphy.gif

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