About Linus' Mantle BF4 benchmark procedure

[samuel]

I was pretty dissappointed that Linus didn't read more tweets regarding this. He focused instead whether it's fair or not to have nVidia cards tested aswell. I totally agree with him, but we already know how those GPUs will handle BF4 because nothing changes on the nVidia side.

What I think all people would want to see:

There is no need to test absolutley all AMD cards. Take 3 cases : Low end/ entry level: HD 7770 or R7 equivalent, mid: 7870/ R9 270 and high end R9 290 of course with and without Crossfire.

What I know so far is that Mantle removes the CPU bottleneck and scales better with more cores.

CPUs to test:

Dual Core Intel i3 with and without Hyperthreading. 

AMD FX 6 and 8 cores

4770K

The tests should stop when the CPU becomes the bottleneck.

nVidia shoud only have a GTX 780 Ti paired with 3570K to see how much it's fairly getting beaten by it's closest competitor. (Or if's still remaining the King!)

I'd just love to see an FX 6300 not bottlenecking Crossfire R9 290.

[X1XNobleX1X]

 

nVidia shoud only have a GTX 780 Ti paired with 3570K to see how it's fairly getting beaten by it's closest competitor. 

 

How do you know it's going to be beaten?

[samuel]

How do you know it's going to be beaten?

i DO NOT want to start an AMD vs nVidia thread. You are right, maybe it's not going to be beaten.

[Vitalius]

I personally disagree about the "but we already know how those GPUs will handle BF4 because nothing changes on the nVidia side." comment. 

I want to see the numbers. It's entirely possible that somehow it could affect nVidia GPUs in some way.

[samuel]

I personally disagree about the "but we already know how those GPUs will handle BF4 because nothing changes on the nVidia side." comment. 

I want to see the numbers. It's entirely possible that somehow it could affect nVidia GPUs in some way.

Nvidia will still render the game in DirectX.....

[LinusTech]

The new Mantle patch will not affect NVIDIA performance in any way.

 

The only thing I can think of is that NVIDIA might have a driver revision ready to roll with some BF4 optimizations that might help to narrow the gap.

 

Anyway, sorry we didn't read more tweets, but I've definitely read your message now

[Vitalius]

Nvidia will still render the game in DirectX.....

And IIRC, Mantle knows how to talk to DirectX. Essentially letting the game run in DirectX, but be used by Mantle on the hardware side.

But apparently Linus knows something I don't (of course he does), or I'm not remembering correctly.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

The new Mantle patch will not affect NVIDIA performance in any way.

 

The only thing I can think of is that NVIDIA might have a driver revision ready to roll with some BF4 optimizations that might help to narrow the gap.

 

Anyway, sorry we didn't read more tweets, but I've definitely read your message now

is it a graphics engine basicly ?

[binman13]

is it a graphics engine basicly ?

Ok, let me explain to you.

It's an API, an Application Programming Interface. 

An API is the framework for how software components interact with each other.

To put it in a stack, it goes: Engine -> API -> Operating System -> Hardware.

Mantle is attempting to replace DirectX for gaming, and performs much better, but only on Hardware that supports it.

 

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

Ok, let me explain to you.

It's an API, an Application Programming Interface. 

An API is the framework for how software components interact with each other.

To put it in a stack, it goes: Engine -> API -> Operating System -> Hardware.

Mantle is attempting to replace DirectX for gaming, and performs much better, but only on Hardware that supports it.

 

 

yes i know it's aiming to raplace DX11 but imean Dx has been with us seens ever and i don't think it's gona beat it

i'de stick to directX11

 

[binman13]

yes i know it's aiming to raplace DX11 but imean Dx has been with us seens ever and i don't think it's gona beat it

i'de stick to directX11

 

Why would you stick to DirectX 11?

Mantle is Objectively better, but that comes at the trade-off of compatibility.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

Why would you stick to DirectX 11?

Mantle is Objectively better, but that comes at the trade-off of compatibility.

see "Compatibility"

[binman13]

see "Compatibility"

If nVidia and Intel support Mantle, then boom, we now have an Open API that beats DirectX...

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

If nVidia and Intel support Mantle, then boom, we now have an Open API that beats DirectX...

if ....if but for now DX11 true ?

[binman13]

if ....if but for now DX11 true ?

DX11 is more widely-used certainly, but the same is said for Windows.

Just because something is more widely-used doesnt make it better.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

DX11 is more widely-used certainly, but the same is said for Windows.

Just because something is more widely-used doesnt make it better.

uuum. does it ???

[binman13]

uuum. does it ???

Is Intel Integrated Graphics better for gaming because it is the most-used GPU? God no.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

Is Intel Integrated Graphics better for gaming because it is the most-used GPU? God no.

dude you'r blufing who uses intel integrated graphics for god sak ?!

[binman13]

dude you'r blufing who uses intel integrated graphics for god sak ?!

Check Steams Hardware Survey, Intel HD 4000 is the most-used gaming GPU.

Not because it's better, not because it's more powerful, but because it is in almost every PC around.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

Check Steams Hardware Survey, Intel HD 4000 is the most-used gaming GPU.

Not because it's better, not because it's more powerful, but because it is in almost every PC around.

oh man i don't know i just can't see somone using integrated graphics for gaming at 1080p or even 1440p

[binman13]

oh man i don't know i just can't see somone using integrated graphics for gaming at 1080p or even 1440p

You're missing the point. 

It's not a good GPU, it is absolute garbage, trash, but it is the most widely used GPU. 

Im trying to prove the point that being widely-used doesnt make it good.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

You're missing the point. 

It's not a good GPU, it is absolute garbage, trash, but it is the most widely used GPU. 

Im trying to prove the point that being widely-used doesnt make it good.

i know man but for whow long have DX been around and on use againts Mantle wich isn't a week old even

 but it's down to wether in the future will gamers swich to mantle alwys or keep DX as an alternative

[binman13]

i know man but for whow long have DX been around and on use againts Mantle wich isn't a week old even

 but it's down to wether in the future will gamers swich to mantle alwys or keep DX as an alternative

I dearly hope that we see either higher Mantle adoption or a re-focus of DirectX.

[LawrenceBarnes2013]

I dearly hope that we see either higher Mantle adoption or a re-focus of DirectX.

i hope i think "DX12" purhaps will bring it back to the top

[Gunjob]

Since Mantle helps most when the CPU is the bottleneck the test should be as follows.

 

Multiple CPU's with one standard GPU 290/290X.

 

Interesting things you could do, is also pair a Intel Hex core preferably a IVY-e part just so we've got PCIe 3.0 x16 on all lanes, and test CFX performance on Mantle Vs DX, this is a great way to see full CPU utilization and how Mantle can treat 2 GPU's as one. 

 

CPU's that should be tested are the most used in builds FX8350, FX6300, A10 6800/7800 and i3 3220, i5 3570k/4570k, i73770k/4770k. All paired with a Radeon 290 or 290x so we can see how Mantle helps with not only core utilization but also with single threaded performance. 

 

and ofcourse a FX8350 with a CFX setup as well as a Intel 3930K/4930K CFX setup. 

 

@LinusTech