3700x vs 3900x: what to expect on the electricity bills and temps department?

[Guest]

10 hours ago, dizmo said:

I'd definitely just spend the extra $200 on Ryzen 9. After all, what is that over a 10 year period? A whopping $0.60 a month.

At the same time, I wouldn't even take power consumption into account. It's such a minuscule difference between components, so unless you run completely on solar and need to account for every watt, or have some sort of insanely high power rate like $1 per kw/h, it seems like an unreasonable thing to worry about.

I took extra care to include only 1w case fans ... they were somewhat more expensive then their 3w cousins but imagine the gains... 6 x 1 = 6w/h and 6 x 3 18w/h

 

 

13 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

PSU don't throttle, they switch off.

well the difference between bronce, silver gold, plat etc is when the psu looses efficiency. I believe bronce psu's deliver at 50% usage 100% of power .. if that number goes up a certain % of power is being used on thermals. so lets say that at 60% usage ( this is an example ) the psu is only able to deliver 90% power continu. higher grade psu's have a higher level % at which they loose efficiency. Thats what i meant with trottling

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, Windows95 said:

so in terms of DB, how much quiter realistically would be the u15?

Without OC, it wouldn't. On the contrary, it might actually be a bit louder. But that shouldn't be in a region you'd notice.

That's the point, that the higher performance Heatsinks are only worth it if you actually want to overclock and need the higher Performance.

But at Standard/Default/Stock, even the Smaller Single Towers should be fine and not louder.

 

[Stefan Payne]

48 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

well the difference between bronce, silver gold, plat etc is when the psu looses efficiency. I believe bronce psu's deliver at 50% usage 100% of power

hä???

Quote

if that number goes up a certain % of power is being used on thermals. so lets say that at 60% usage ( this is an example ) the psu is only able to deliver 90% power continu. higher grade psu's have a higher level % at which they loose efficiency. Thats what i meant with trottling

That's not how it works.

You have some serious misunderstandings about PSU here.

 

Just the basics:

• Efficiency is the relationship between input energy and output energy.
  (and with modern 80plus Gold or better units it really is not worth to talk about Peak Efficiency as there is little (less than 0,5%) Difference between usually 30-60% load, sometimes 80%. And between 20-80% we are talking, at worst, around 1,5% difference...)
• PSU are rated for 100% load at a certain room temperature. Cheap PSU usualy 25-35°C, good PSU 40-50°C
• It is absolutely no problemo to use 100% of the PSU these days. All work, nothing blows up.
• the Quality of PSU increased dramatically. Even highest end PSU from 10 Years ago have a hard time competing against modern mid range units.

Sadly people keep thinking about the stuff they learned 40 years ago without looking into what changed.

Especially in electronics, the changes are huge and most of what was good knowledge 40 years ago (or even 20) is misleading and wrong today.

For example: Capacitors. The claim that you only need to look at Capacity and Voltage. Well, at the time there weren't many types of Condensers.

But today we have a ton of different types: Ceramic, Tantalum, Organic Polymer Capacitors and the good old and even in the Aluminium Electrolytic area we have many different types. In short: Capacity and Voltage ratings are less important, other values that were unknown at the time are far more important: Ripple Current and Impedance...

That is just an example.

 

In short: 450W on a PSU means that the PSU can output 450W Continuously, 24/7 at rated room temperature...

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

hä???

That's not how it works.

You have some serious misunderstandings about PSU here.

 

Just the basics:

• Efficiency is the relationship between input energy and output energy.
  (and with modern 80plus Gold or better units it really is not worth to talk about Peak Efficiency as there is little (less than 0,5%) Difference between usually 30-60% load, sometimes 80%. And between 20-80% we are talking, at worst, around 1,5% difference...)
• PSU are rated for 100% load at a certain room temperature. Cheap PSU usualy 25-35°C, good PSU 40-50°C
• It is absolutely no problemo to use 100% of the PSU these days. All work, nothing blows up.
• the Quality of PSU increased dramatically. Even highest end PSU from 10 Years ago have a hard time competing against modern mid range units.

Sadly people keep thinking about the stuff they learned 40 years ago without looking into what changed.

Especially in electronics, the changes are huge and most of what was good knowledge 40 years ago (or even 20) is misleading and wrong today.

For example: Capacitors. The claim that you only need to look at Capacity and Voltage. Well, at the time there weren't many types of Condensers.

But today we have a ton of different types: Ceramic, Tantalum, Organic Polymer Capacitors and the good old and even in the Aluminium Electrolytic area we have many different types. In short: Capacity and Voltage ratings are less important, other values that were unknown at the time are far more important: Ripple Current and Impedance...

That is just an example.

 

In short: 450W on a PSU means that the PSU can output 450W Continuously, 24/7 at rated room temperature...

ah maybe that is the point where i'm mistaken ..... i can't wrap my head around the efficiency rating since there is a loss that is converted to heat right ... does this actually mean that a 500W psu might actually be a 550W psu ?

[dizmo]

4 hours ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

I took extra care to include only 1w case fans ... they were somewhat more expensive then their 3w cousins but imagine the gains... 6 x 1 = 6w/h and 6 x 3 18w/h

Haha, uh....what? How much more were they?

It'll likely take you years to recoup the difference in cost. If you ran those fans 24/7, it would only cost you $18/year...

[Windows95]

5 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Without OC, it wouldn't. On the contrary, it might actually be a bit louder. But that shouldn't be in a region you'd notice.

That's the point, that the higher performance Heatsinks are only worth it if you actually want to overclock and need the higher Performance.

But at Standard/Default/Stock, even the Smaller Single Towers should be fine and not louder.

 

so which model specifically would you buy for stack speeds and quietness? i am confused

 

see, the sockets thing, im not sure if noctua only has that big one for am4

[Vandey]

On 5/27/2019 at 9:57 AM, Windows95 said:

I also love quiet computers for music making and im worried maybe 3900x gets too hot and requires higher fan speeds than 3700x... 

No one really knows what the temps will be but I'd think they'd be in the same range as most processors. Did you see linus did a video not too long ago about H2O vs Air cooling. Noctua has a really beefy air cooler that worked better than the corsair AIO's he tested them against.

[Vandey]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Haha, uh....what? How much more were they?

It'll likely take you years to recoup the difference in cost. If you ran those fans 24/7, it would only cost you $18/year...

Agreed, provided he doesn't have any issues with any of those fans within those 2 years... but yes it's like a $12 difference over 2 years about 50 cents a month you'd save on power if they ran 24/7...

 

My PC runs a hell of a lot less than 24/7 probably closer to 14/5 or somewhere in there so it'd take probably close to 5 years just to recoup the cost of fans alone, IMO not worth it...

[Stefan Payne]

3 hours ago, Windows95 said:

so which model specifically would you buy for stack speeds and quietness? i am confused

NH-U12 or rather NH-U14

One of those two I'd get for Stock Speeds.

 

3 hours ago, Windows95 said:

see, the sockets thing, im not sure if noctua only has that big one for am4

You can ask them nicely for the AM4 Mounting Bracket, they just need Proof that you own the things you said you do.

Picture of the components for example.

Though that might take a couple of days or weeks. For me its 2-3 Days or so...

 

Though both should be available in AM4 Special Editions.

[Jon Jon]

For the record, I own the D15 and run it on a silent fan curve. Only under synthetic load does it ever really need to spin up, as even with my overclock my CPU sits in the mid 50s in temperature.

 

The D15 is designed for 250W TDP and as per AIDA64, my CPU Package TDP shoots up to 130W when under full load with my 3.9ghz overclock.

 

It's also a MASSIVE cooler, so you would need to get low profile ram to accomodate. even with my Corsair LPX kit, I had to shift one of the CPU fans up a little bit as it just barely didn't clear the RAM.

 

I say get the Ryzen 9 and an X570 motherboard and don't worry so much about power consumption.

 

If you are the type to keep the same PC for 10 years, then get what you need for the workloads that you have.

 

I also really do think that as both the Ryzen 9 and Q6600 have a 105W TDP, that the Ryzen 9 then will overall burn less power as it will have far better power optimizations than the Q6600 ever did.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, dizmo said:

Haha, uh....what? How much more were they?

It'll likely take you years to recoup the difference in cost. If you ran those fans 24/7, it would only cost you $18/year...

No they where not spectaculair expensive... i think between 15 and 20 euro's a piece ..... Apparently high pressure low yield fans .... The 3 watt fans were around 12 euros ( from be quiet ) and those are traditional airmovers ( high speed ) 

[Windows95]

20 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

NH-U12 or rather NH-U14

One of those two I'd get for Stock Speeds.

 

You can ask them nicely for the AM4 Mounting Bracket, they just need Proof that you own the things you said you do.

Picture of the components for example.

Though that might take a couple of days or weeks. For me its 2-3 Days or so...

 

Though both should be available in AM4 Special Editions.

i think i will just mount whatever stock fan comes with 3900x... or will it sell without a fan? i mean just to wait until noctua officially supports am4 for all models

 

whata about mobo tho... does it makes sense to run 3900x on 470 or should i spend extra and go 570?

 

what about the fans on 570 boards? i dont want extra annoying noises

[Vandey]

1 hour ago, Windows95 said:

i think i will just mount whatever stock fan comes with 3900x... or will it sell without a fan? i mean just to wait until noctua officially supports am4 for all models

 

whata about mobo tho... does it makes sense to run 3900x on 470 or should i spend extra and go 570?

 

what about the fans on 570 boards? i dont want extra annoying noises

The 570 come with pcie 4.0... Probably worth going with that if you're going to be doing work that takes up that sort of bandwidth that is gained by that.

[Windows95]

On 5/29/2019 at 5:56 PM, Stefan Payne said:

NH-U12 or rather NH-U14

One of those two I'd get for Stock Speeds.

 

You can ask them nicely for the AM4 Mounting Bracket, they just need Proof that you own the things you said you do.

Picture of the components for example.

Though that might take a couple of days or weeks. For me its 2-3 Days or so...

 

Though both should be available in AM4 Special Editions.

I have been looking at some tests and it looks like noctua 15 is the quietest noctua..

 

 

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7986/thermalright-le-grand-macho-rt-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

 

that Thermalright one is even quieter

 

makes sense that bigger = quieter since it probably spins at lower speed

[thechinchinsong]

6 hours ago, Windows95 said:

i think i will just mount whatever stock fan comes with 3900x... or will it sell without a fan? i mean just to wait until noctua officially supports am4 for all models

 

whata about mobo tho... does it makes sense to run 3900x on 470 or should i spend extra and go 570?

 

what about the fans on 570 boards? i dont want extra annoying noises

I'm 95% sure noctua coolers come with AM4 mounting hardware by default now.

[Stefan Payne]

54 minutes ago, Windows95 said:

I have been looking at some tests and it looks like noctua 15 is the quietest noctua..

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7986/thermalright-le-grand-macho-rt-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

 

that Thermalright one is even quieter

makes sense that bigger = quieter since it probably spins at lower speed

You looked at the wrong Measure. You looked at OC, wich you don't do.

And its not as cut and dry as you think it is.

 

Yes, the NH-D15 can cool higher power consumption at the same noise level than NH-U12 or U14 can do, because it has more surface area.

However, at lower power levels, its not quieter due to higher air resistance, thus more turbulences caused in that.

 

Thus at Stock the  NH-U14 is slightly better.

For OC the NH-D15 is way better

 

We are, however, not talking about Threadripper level Power Consumption, we are talking about 105W or so.

6 hours ago, Windows95 said:

i think i will just mount whatever stock fan comes with 3900x... or will it sell without a fan? i mean just to wait until noctua officially supports am4 for all models

That's a possibility, if the 3900X comes with a fan or not is not known right now.

But its to be expected that it comes with the Wraith Max.

 

6 hours ago, Windows95 said:

whata about mobo tho... does it makes sense to run 3900x on 470 or should i spend extra and go 570?

what about the fans on 570 boards? i dont want extra annoying noises

I'd look at the 570 for the whole featurces.

I'd expect that there is some (new) form of XFR wich probably isn't present on 470 Boards.

 

Same as Ryzen 2700X for example, wich comes with XFR2, wich only works on AMD 470X Boards.

[Windows95]

 

stock

 

the other noctuas aren't there

 

anyone has a chart with all other missing fans?