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Nvidia Brings DXR Raytracing to Pascal, Turing and Volta

randomhkkid
By randomhkkid
in Tech News
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2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

This might also contribute to what was observed in that Metro testing

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13282/nvidia-turing-architecture-deep-dive/4

 

Sounds to me like Turing and Volta gained capabilities but regressed in instruction execution (increased instruction latency). If I understand it correctly.

One discussion I saw said it was 32 cycles per roundtrip to the Tensor core. There's your stall. So there's still a significant penalty, even if a full context switch isn't necessary.

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No Maxwell support yet Pascal is the same architecture as Maxwell just shrunken. AMD already showed off much better raytracing support than this without tensorecoree and RT cores, it’s not the same thing I know but it gets so hard to tell them apart and if you ask someone would you want slightly more reflective surfaces at the cost of $1000 more hour be called crazy. I have a feeling we are going to see tensorcores and RT cores disappear from NVIDIA GPUs in maybe 2 generations. Because then they will have the Async performance to do ray tracing without all the extra jazz   

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Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

One discussion I saw said it was 32 cycles per roundtrip to the Tensor core. There's your stall. So there's still a significant penalty, even if a full context switch isn't necessary.

Turing doesn't have to context switch, it's actually parallel however all instructions are now 2 cycles to complete and Pascal was only 1 cycle. Turing also supports half the number of concurrent warps per SM as Pascal and Volta, 32 vs 64.

 

https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/turing-tuning-guide/index.html

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9 hours ago, BuckGup said:

No Maxwell support yet Pascal is the same architecture as Maxwell just shrunken.

Maxwell can run DXR applications through the fallback layer (https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/9lcs4u/microsoft_dxr_demos_compiled_for_windows_10/). My speculation is that NVIDIA is putting this at the driver level. Besides that, honestly, why bother supporting Maxwell 2 when a GTX 1080 Ti is already anywhere from 1.6 to 5 times slower than an RTX 2080 Ti (from the slides NVIDIA showed) and the fastest Maxwell 2 card is basically twice as slow as the GTX 1080 Ti and can't handle asynchronous compute tasks well?

 

Quote

AMD already showed off much better raytracing support than this without tensorecoree and RT cores,

Yeah, by the fallback layer. Unless AMD implemented it at the driver level, it's not really much better support. And really at this point, all AMD has to show for its ray tracing support is a single demo that NVIDIA can also run. NVIDIA has numerous demos and a few commercial products to show for it.

 

Quote

it’s not the same thing I know but it gets so hard to tell them apart and if you ask someone would you want slightly more reflective surfaces at the cost of $1000 more hour be called crazy. I have a feeling we are going to see tensorcores and RT cores disappear from NVIDIA GPUs in maybe 2 generations. Because then they will have the Async performance to do ray tracing without all the extra jazz   

NVIDIA is shooting for real-time path tracing, which handles more than reflections.

 

We're also still in the first generation of RTRT hardware. History is rife with technologies that were seen as too expensive for the average person on the first generation of release, only to drop drastically to affordable levels in a short period of time in subsequent generations.

I have a blog! And a list of guides I've posted

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19 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

There was a Vega 56 with raytracing shown off.

could I see this?

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19 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/287942-crytek-demo-showcases-real-time-raytracing-on-amd-vega-56

Which we've yet to see what they really did. There are a few cases where the developer claims they've done ray tracing but it doesn't look like what one would expect.

 

But until then, here's a GTX 1080 and 1080Ti doing ray tracing on DXR:

 

I have a blog! And a list of guides I've posted

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2 hours ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

NVIDIA is shooting for real-time path tracing, which handles more than reflections.

 

So does raytracing. You can fully render 100% of a scene with raytracing.

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15 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

So does raytracing. You can fully render 100% of a scene with raytracing.

 

Path tracing is part of the ray tracing family. Or rather, it uses ray tracing along with some other methods to generate the final image.

 

At this point I'm led to believe that ray tracing does not describe any one algorithm, but is either a family of algorithms or is a component of a rendering method. Because it all boils down to the same basic idea: shoot rays from the camera to determine the color of a pixel. However the ray interacts with the environment, be it triangles intersections or volumetric data points, is just another way of determining the final result.

I have a blog! And a list of guides I've posted

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1 minute ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Path tracing is part of the ray tracing family. Or rather, it uses ray tracing along with some other methods to generate the final image.

 

 

Pathtracing is a related but completely different technology.

 

@Mira Yurizaki I recommend watching this as it does a betetr job of explaining the diffrance between raytracing and path tracing than i can manage:

 

 

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1 hour ago, VegetableStu said:

i don't exactly trust a processor architecture commentator to make a computer graphics/science person's opinion ._. at least i'd source from one first

 

i'll watch it anyway when i get back

 

EDIT: okay I'll adjust my expectations a bit. OTOY sponsored that video

The Wikipedia page on Path Tracing isn't too bad for a quick up to speed sort of thing.

 

Quote

Path tracing naturally simulates many effects that have to be specifically added to other methods (conventional ray tracing or scanline rendering), such as soft shadows, depth of field, motion blur, caustics, ambient occlusion, and indirect lighting. Implementation of a renderer including these effects is correspondingly simpler. An extended version of the algorithm is realized by volumetric path tracing, which considers the light scattering of a scene.

 

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12 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

I wouldn't readily say raytracing and pathtracing is completely different technology though? o_o even if we consider the directionality of the shader (from the camera or from light sources or a combination of both) and the ray algorithm

 

for example: going from Depth Map shadows (texture space) to Raytracing shadows (scene space) might be considered different from what I understand, to be honest ._.

 

(the video didn't mention it being completely different as well, so kinda wondering where's the exact distinction is here)

I don't consider it different really either, more a sub of than it's own thing.

 

Quote

The realism of all rendering methods can be evaluated as an approximation to the equation. Ray tracing, if it is limited to Whitted's algorithm, is not necessarily the most realistic. Methods that trace rays, but include additional techniques (photon mapping, path tracing), give a far more accurate simulation of real-world lighting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_(graphics)

 

And before the Whittled method was the Appel method. There's also Beam Tracing, Cone Tracing and Distributed Ray Tracing (another Monte Carlo application).

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9 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

I wouldn't readily say raytracing and pathtracing is completely different technology though? o_o even if we consider the directionality of the shader (from the camera or from light sources or a combination of both) and the ray algorithm

 

for example: going from Depth Map shadows (texture space) to Raytracing shadows (scene space) might be considered different from what I understand, to be honest ._.

 

(the video didn't mention it being completely different as well, so kinda wondering where's the exact distinction is here)

 

What i said is that it's a different but related technique ;). They're similar but have some key differences.

 

Also i linked the video because it's clear he went to a lot of effort researching it, (TLDR thats basically how it got to be sponsored. he was doing the research and a company gave him a load of stuff and said "we don't mind giving this for free" but he felt he owed them a bit more exposure for the help so he turned it into a sponsored video to reward the help with research they gave him. he talks about it towards the end of the video), 

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