Posted January 19, 2014 Hello, today i wanted to talk a bit deep into mantle, bare in mind i am kinda new to this forums, and i'm not that organized and its hard for me to express my own thoughts so good? lol so this is a try so here http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/104048-amd-btf4-fps-drops-mantle-fix-hd7850/ We were talking about a bunch of things, but then a question got asked (obviously). "Do you think mantle will solve anything or will turn the game even more buggy and unplayable?" - Arezitopedia My thoughts on this are: 1) Mantle will bring a significant improvement to performance with much less capable hardware. 2) It would solve the Developers problem with the limitation on draw calls 3) gaming would by this become less expensive to play at higher details (from my pov which is a 16 year old that doesn't have much money) Now on Battlefield 4 ( as the only game for now with mantle support incoming ) you may see performance improvements and maybe the eliminations of FPS dipping, I am sure that amd is working hard on this mantle project, and making sure its all go on the drivers. What i'm afraid and here is the "...even move buggy...?" quote, yes i think it will, but on the EA's fault, since they aren't doing so good or at least the rep on the internet says so. Thief and Star Citizen are also going to support mantle, But hopefully they implement well and no mayor bugs come along to damage everything, I guess we will have to see how well BF4 does when mantle is here to judge. Why is mantle important to me? well It allows me to build a relatively not so much in expensive gaming pc with the new Kaveri APU ( the A10 k specially :3 ) and actually play Titanfall (which is one of the games im looking forward) and since Dice is working on Titanfall you would think mantle is coming for it, who knows. I Also play League of Legends, Dota2, Project Spark and Minecraft which are games that are not so much demanding and i'm not afraid to make the video details normal or w/e i may need the details to be to get a good 60 fps overall. So from mantle to battlefield4 to personal games, to amd Kavari APU. IDK anymore lol. Hope it made sense Thanks for reading. Against All Odds pc build AMD Athlon II x4 750k///MSI A55m E33///Kingston hyper x blue 8gb (2x4)///corsair cx430///EVGA GTX 750 SC///Rosewill FBM 01///Samsung EVO 850 120gb///Windows 8.1///Corsair Raptor k40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Now think of this.... What if, it just doesn't work? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Author Now think of this.... What if, it just doesn't work? Then im utterly screwed xDDD Against All Odds pc build AMD Athlon II x4 750k///MSI A55m E33///Kingston hyper x blue 8gb (2x4)///corsair cx430///EVGA GTX 750 SC///Rosewill FBM 01///Samsung EVO 850 120gb///Windows 8.1///Corsair Raptor k40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Then im utterly screwed xDDD Dun dun duuuuuuuun . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 I think the price would not decrease it would increase because it is something they can charge a premium for and AMD being a company is going to take advantage of all the hype and demand and charge a higher premium than before, but that depends on the numbers but I guess we just have to wait and see Hope I could help! Specs: CPU: AMD FX-8320 @4.0ghz GPU: ASUS DCUII GTX 770 PSU: EVGA Supernova 750g CASE: Fractal Define R4 RAM: 8 Gigabytes ADATA 1333 Mhz MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Author I think the price would not decrease it would increase because it is something they can charge a premium for and AMD being a company is going to take advantage of all the hype and demand and charge a higher premium than before, but that depends on the numbers but I guess we just have to wait and see That would be a factor too. very much valid point Against All Odds pc build AMD Athlon II x4 750k///MSI A55m E33///Kingston hyper x blue 8gb (2x4)///corsair cx430///EVGA GTX 750 SC///Rosewill FBM 01///Samsung EVO 850 120gb///Windows 8.1///Corsair Raptor k40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 it's a complete joke to me, it requires devs to put extra work. It's like physx, it's nice when implemented but it never gets implemented (what I predict) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 it's a complete joke to me, it requires devs to put extra work. It's like physx, it's nice when implemented but it never gets implemented (what I predict) i dont see how or why mantle will become a large thing because that would mean extra work or leaving out all nvidia users which is alllllllllllllllllllooooot and by alot i dont necessarily mean more than amd CPU: i5 4670k with Noctua C12P-SE14 GPU: Gigabyte GTX 770 SSD: 250gb Samsung EVO MOBO: MSI Z87-G43 RAM: 8GB G-Skill 1600mhz PSU: Antec HCG 620W CASE: Corsair 300R windowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 As far as I know DICE isn't working on Titanfall, it's an EA title but it's not being made by DICE. Mantle's success will depend a lot on adoption, EA have got behind it and we can expect all of the Frostbite engine games and others (Battlefront, Need for speed, Mirrors edge 2 etc) to have Mantle support so it may gain some traction, but we'll have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 It'll be nifty, but not game changing. Intel i5 6600k~Asus Maximus VIII Hero~G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 8GB DDR4-3200 CL-16~Sapphire Radeon R9 Fury Tri-X~Phanteks Enthoo Pro M~Sandisk Extreme Pro 480GB~SeaSonic Snow Silent 750~BenQ XL2730Z QHD 144Hz FreeSync~Cooler Master Seidon 240M~Varmilo VA87M (Cherry MX Brown)~Corsair Vengeance M95~Oppo PM-3~Windows 10 Pro~http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ynmBnQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 It's so sad to see how many people don't know that mantle is an open API of which Intel and Nvidia can take a part in. Every comment I've read so far was cringe-worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 It's so sad to see how many people don't know that mantle is an open API of which Intel and Nvidia can take a part in. Every comment I've read so far was cringe-worthy. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 I want mantle now, but I'd rather they release it when it's finished otherwise it will be so buggy that AMD will get a lot of flack There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary, and those who don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Author It'll be nifty, but not game changing. Agreed, for it to be game changing, AMD Intel and Nvidia have to adopt and support it, make it something mainstream and then will it be maybe game changing As far as I know DICE isn't working on Titanfall, it's an EA title but it's not being made by DICE. Mantle's success will depend a lot on adoption, EA have got behind it and we can expect all of the Frostbite engine games and others (Battlefront, Need for speed, Mirrors edge 2 etc) to have Mantle support so it may gain some traction, but we'll have to wait and see. well you know, its EA behind it, EA is also behind DICE right? i mean... i mean.. (#worstnoobever) well you know, you would think it may be implemented if BF4 with mantle is such win for them i suck Against All Odds pc build AMD Athlon II x4 750k///MSI A55m E33///Kingston hyper x blue 8gb (2x4)///corsair cx430///EVGA GTX 750 SC///Rosewill FBM 01///Samsung EVO 850 120gb///Windows 8.1///Corsair Raptor k40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 I want mantle now, but I'd rather they release it when it's finished otherwise it will be so buggy that AMD will get a lot of flack Do you even know what Mantle is? It's an API, and it's already been released. There is no definition of "buggy" for mantle, only for developers to use the API. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Author Do you even know what Mantle is? It's an API, and it's already been released. There is no definition of "buggy" for mantle, only for developers to use the API. Your comment may be unrelated to this but, what about if with mantle you would get less glitches on a game Against All Odds pc build AMD Athlon II x4 750k///MSI A55m E33///Kingston hyper x blue 8gb (2x4)///corsair cx430///EVGA GTX 750 SC///Rosewill FBM 01///Samsung EVO 850 120gb///Windows 8.1///Corsair Raptor k40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Your comment may be unrelated to this but, what about if with mantle you would get less glitches on a game eh i don't think that glitches are caused by bad API, it's more of an engine problem, or a bad coding problem also, mantle provides good performance because of its low-level APIs, but low-level means that you lose some abstraction layers, you have to directlycontrol more things, and while you can do it right and have great performance boost, you also have more chances of doing it wrong and create a buggy game btw i'm not a master in those things, i could be wrong It's so sad to see how many people don't know that mantle is an open API of which Intel and Nvidia can take a part in. Every comment I've read so far was cringe-worthy. yeah... like TressFX, it works super perfectly with Nvidia cards. yep. uhum. ah... AMD created Mantle looking at GCN (or vice versa?) so it's obviously more efficient on that architecture you should also think that maxwell brings a CPU into the GPU, they did this to take that CPU overhead which makes DX11 so bad and bring it directly into the GPU to make it work better, thus nvidia would have to fuckthatshit all its Maxwell projects as well as the roadmap in order to join the mantle side of things it would be kind of a bend-over in front of AMD it's not gonna happen, if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Author But, in theory, if its a low-level API similar to the console side of things (if not mistaken) wouldnt it make it better for less bugs and glitches to appear since, it would me somewhat easier? just thinking on that, i could also be completely wrong (probably am) eh i don't think that glitches are caused by bad API, it's more of an engine problem, or a bad coding problem also, mantle provides good performance because of its low-level APIs, but low-level means that you lose some abstraction layers, you have to directlycontrol more things, and while you can do it right and have great performance boost, you also have more chances of doing it wrong and create a buggy game btw i'm not a master in those things, i could be wrong Against All Odds pc build AMD Athlon II x4 750k///MSI A55m E33///Kingston hyper x blue 8gb (2x4)///corsair cx430///EVGA GTX 750 SC///Rosewill FBM 01///Samsung EVO 850 120gb///Windows 8.1///Corsair Raptor k40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 But, in theory, if its a low-level API similar to the console side of things (if not mistaken) wouldnt it make it better for less bugs and glitches to appear since, it would me somewhat easier? just thinking on that, i could also be completely wrong (probably am) assuming that the console version is not glitchy, yes it should be easier to port it to pc using mantle instead of dx11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 It has to be implemented, but also implemented well. Just like any method of programming, there's usually a more efficient way of doing it. You can see that with the console games as it gets later into a generation as the devs have had time to find more efficient ways of programming the game so that they can cram more details in. Aragorn (WS): 250D | 6800k | 840 Pro 512GB | Intel 530 480GB | Asus X99-M WS | 64GB DDR4 | Corsair HX720i | GTX 1070 | Corsair H115i | Philips BDM4350UC 43" 3840x2160 IPS Gimli (server): Node 304 | G4560 | ADATA XPG SX8000 128GB | 2x 5TB WD Red | ASROCK H270M-ITX/AC | 8GB DDR4 | Seasonic 400FL Omega (server): Fractal Arc Mini R2 | i3 4130 | 500GB Maxtor | 2TB WD Red : Raid 1 | 3TB Seagate Barracuda | 16GB RAM | Seasonic G-450wAlpha (WS): 900D | 4770k | GTX 780 | 840 Pro 512GB | GA-Z87X-OC | Corsair RM 850 | 24GB 2400mhz | Samsung S27B970D 2560x1440 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Author It has to be implemented, but also implemented well. Just like any method of programming, there's usually a more efficient way of doing it. You can see that with the console games as it gets later into a generation as the devs have had time to find more efficient ways of programming the game so that they can cram more details in. Make that coding epx on consoles similar experience on PC coding and maybe have a winner? Against All Odds pc build AMD Athlon II x4 750k///MSI A55m E33///Kingston hyper x blue 8gb (2x4)///corsair cx430///EVGA GTX 750 SC///Rosewill FBM 01///Samsung EVO 850 120gb///Windows 8.1///Corsair Raptor k40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 it's a complete joke to me, it requires devs to put extra work. It's like physx, it's nice when implemented but it never gets implemented (what I predict) It does sometimes, but it is also specific to Nvidia. There have been rumors that Mantle will not be exclusive to AMD. That would be an advantage to the API if developers knew it would be open to all platforms. Mantle is also supposed to be different to physx as in not just a game add in but a whole API on its own. My PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1X1jN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 It does sometimes, but it is also specific to Nvidia. There have been rumors that Mantle will not be exclusive to AMD. That would be an advantage to the API if developers knew it would be open to all platforms. Mantle is also supposed to be different to physx as in not just a game add in but a whole API on its own. I mean, put it this way. If Mantle is "Down to the metal" yet open, then nVidia and Intel could adapt it for their own usage, meaning that gaming as a whole would no longer rely on DirectX. Lets say that AMD allows nVidia and Intel to adapt the API, at a lesser performance increase, that's a win for everybody. AMD - Better performance nVidia - Better performance Intel - Better performance Developers - Only have to use 1 API for their games. Gamers - Free to use non-windows OS's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 Now think of this.... What if, it just doesn't work? You sure know how burst someone's bubble. A water-cooled mid-tier gaming PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 19, 2014 You sure know how burst someone's bubble. That's pretty much how am I everyday with everybody . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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