Can a motherboard only fail when you insert more RAM?

[Alir]

I have 2x4GB RAM modules in my PC. My PC runs fine. No freezes. Nada.

 

However I purchased 2x8GB RAM modules (same brand and model - just larger capacity) and both sticks, even when inserted individually in any RAM slot on any OS, cause random freezes and shutdowns.

 

Is it possible my motherboard is faulty and not my RAM modules? That my motherboard only fails when I insert larger capacity RAM modules? I am also wondering whether there might be an obscure compatibility issue.

 

It is worth pointing out again that my RAM modules are exactly the same. Except the 2x4GB RAM is Single Rank (one sided) and the 2x8GB is Dual Rank (double sided).

 

I removed my CMOS battery before testing every time.

 

My motherboard accepts 32GB RAM max. It is the MSI Z97M.

My RAM is the HyperX Fury.

 

Motherboard:

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/YGsKHx/msi-motherboard-z97mgaming

2x4GB:

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/KGsKHx/kingston-memory-hx318c10fbk28

2x8GB:

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/CtV48d/kingston-memory-hx318c10fbk216

 

EDIT:

 

I did indeed re-insert my 2x4GB RAM sticks and the PC runs absolutely fine! But if I re-insert any of the 8GB sticks, the PC will freeze at random moments. RAM or CPU load don't even seem to be the cause. I can run various RAM stress tests, including Memtest86, for hours. Going over 20 passes. But then the PC might at a random rare moment freeze. The same thing happens on Windows and Linux. The PC can be running for hours only to randomly freeze.

 

EDIT 2:

Event Viewer does not return an error at all and just says my PC was shutdown unexpectedly when the freeze happens.

[RAM555789]

Well there a number of reasons your motherboard can fail, but try putting the old RAM back into your motherboard and see if it still works. If the RAM works, the RAM you bought is probably faulty because from what can tell it should be compatible.

[dj_ripcord]

Actually, both scenarios are possible. Usually, RAM issues are CPU-seating issues. So I would check to see if the CPU is seated properly in the socket. No bent pins or anything etc...

Both sticks of RAM could be bad but it's unlikely.

Aaaand you also could have an issue with the MB. Which could be a plethora of issues. Hard to tell without proper diag.

If the place you bought the ram from has a good return policy, return them and get a replacement. That would be my first step.

 

[Alir]

1 minute ago, RAM555789 said:

Well there a number of reasons your motherboard can fail, but try putting the old RAM back into your motherboard and see if it still works. If the RAM works, the RAM you bought is probably faulty because from what can tell it should be compatible. 

 

I forgot to clarify.

 

My motherboard current has my old 2x4GB RAM inserted. It runs absolutely fine. As far as I can tell.

[Brooksie359]

1 minute ago, Alir said:

 

I forgot to clarify.

 

My motherboard current has my old 2x4GB RAM inserted. It runs absolutely fine. As far as I can tell.

Make sure you aren't running the 2x4 at the same time as the 2x8. That can cause the issues you describe. It is also possible that it's a memory timing or memory speed issue. 

[badreg]

Are you running XMP with the 2x8? If so, dual rank @ 1866Mhz is asking a lot from the IMC. Try going down to 1600Mhz and see if your issues go away.

[Alir]

5 minutes ago, dj_ripcord said:

Actually, both scenarios are possible. Usually, RAM issues are CPU-seating issues. So I would check to see if the CPU is seated properly in the socket. No bent pins or anything etc...

Both sticks of RAM could be bad but it's unlikely.

Aaaand you also could have an issue with the MB. Which could be a plethora of issues. Hard to tell without proper diag.

If the place you bought the ram from has a good return policy, return them and get a replacement. That would be my first step.

 

 

I did have a moment many months ago whilst I was diagnosing my RAM problems where I thought I might have damaged the pins by slightly touching them (accidentally). I could not find anything wrong however and it was most likely just my paranoia.

 

Please see the edit. My 2x4GB sticks do run fine without any of these problems.

 

The problem is limited to the 8GB sticks.

[Alir]

3 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Make sure you aren't running the 2x4 at the same time as the 2x8. That can cause the issues you describe. It is also possible that it's a memory timing or memory speed issue. 

 

I ran them separately.

 

To avoid the possibility of the wrong settings causing it, I did remove my CMOS battery before testing each time.

[Fasauceome]

16 minutes ago, Alir said:

, cause random freezes and shutdowns.

So you are able to get into the OS, have you tried something like memtest?

[Alir]

2 minutes ago, badreg said:

Are you running XMP with the 2x8? If so, dual rank @ 1866Mhz is asking a lot from the IMC. Try going down to 1600Mhz and see if your issues go away.

 

Don't know what that is.Will look into it.

[mariushm]

Some motherboards just can't work with 4 memory modules above some frequencies so you may have to take it down a notch.

Get a software like  memtest that tests memory sticks for errors before you boot into Windows (boot from USB stick or CD/DVD disc)

 

Get a known working memory stick and install just that one in the first slot. Boot and test the stick for some time (ideally at least one pass, which should be at least 5-10 minutes)

When done, move the stick in next slot and boot and test again. Move the stick in 3rd slot and test, move the stick in 4th slot and test.

The motherboard should let you do that.

This test basically makes sure the CPU is properly seated in the socket and that the slot is fine.

If you get errors with your memory stick in just one or some slots, there's a bunch of possibilities: either the cpu is not placed properly in the socket (so some pins don't make contact in socket) or the slot itself has some issues like a bent contact in the socket or oxidized or dirty in some way.

Inspect the slot with your eyes for bent contacts, and you can try to clean the oxides or dirty off contacts in a simple way - get a clean copier paper sheet, break off a tiny piece, bent it in two or four to get the thickness just right then drag the bit of paper between the memory slot contacts. The surface of the copier sheet is rough enough to clean dust and oxides off the surface if there's any.

 

If one memory stick works in all slots, you're good. Test the other 3 memory sticks in a known working slot.

If all four memory sticks test good, start testing with one stick on each channel, then optionally do the test once with two sticks in each channel, then the other

 

This should cover all bases.

 

[Alir]

Just now, fasauceome said:

So you are able to get into the OS, have you tried something like memtest?

 

Yes.

 

The Memtest and other stress test software do run. Sometimes for up to or even an hour.

 

But as I have said, the PC does randomly and spontaneously freeze for no reason. Event Viewer does not return an error at all and just says my PC was shutdown unexpectedly when the freeze happens.

[Alir]

1 minute ago, mariushm said:

Some motherboards just can't work with 4 memory modules above some frequencies so you may have to take it down a notch.

Get a software like  memtest that tests memory sticks for errors before you boot into Windows (boot from USB stick or CD/DVD disc) 

  

Get a known working memory stick and install just that one in the first slot. Boot and test the stick for some time (ideally at least one pass, which should be at least 5-10 minutes)

When done, move the stick in next slot and boot and test again. Move the stick in 3rd slot and test, move the stick in 4th slot and test.

The motherboard should let you do that.

This test basically makes sure the CPU is properly seated in the socket and that the slot is fine.

If you get errors with your memory stick in just one or some slots, there's a bunch of possibilities: either the cpu is not placed properly in the socket (so some pins don't make contact in socket) or the slot itself has some issues like a bent contact in the socket or oxidized or dirty in some way.

Inspect the slot with your eyes for bent contacts, and you can try to clean the oxides or dirty off contacts in a simple way - get a clean copier paper sheet, break off a tiny piece, bent it in two or four to get the thickness just right then drag the bit of paper between the memory slot contacts. The surface of the copier sheet is rough enough to clean dust and oxides off the surface if there's any.

 

If one memory stick works in all slots, you're good. Test the other 3 memory sticks in a known working slot.

If all four memory sticks test good, start testing with one stick on each channel, then optionally do the test once with two sticks in each channel, then the other

 

This should cover all bases.

 

 

 - Memtest does not boot from a USB stick. Do you mean Memtest86? Done that. As I have said, Memtest86 randomly freezes. However it does not return an error and can run for hours without problem. Only for a spontaneous random freeze during what appears to be any test. The freezes are rare but they happen enough for me to know the PC has problems with those RAM sticks.

 

 - One pass takes over an hour I think. Not 10 minutes?

 

 - I have already pretty much done the kind of thing which you are describing. Sort of. I didn't test every slot but I tested the two main ones. Both slots are fine with the 2x4GB modules. The PC only fails with even a single 8GB RAM stick inserted. And that's when the stick is inserted into a slot that I know works because it worked with the 4GB sticks.

[Brooksie359]

6 minutes ago, Alir said:

 

Yes.

 

The Memtest and other stress test software do run. Sometimes for up to or even an hour.

 

But as I have said, the PC does randomly and spontaneously freeze for no reason. Event Viewer does not return an error at all and just says my PC was shutdown unexpectedly when the freeze happens.

I would have thought it might be an unstable memory speed but if you reset the cmos it should resort back to the minimum memory speed.  

[aezakmi]

do what badreg said and also disable any "XMP" profile and try to manually tune as most latencies as you can (set them to the stock values) also manually set the voltage to 1.51V, the .1V is on purpose to see if somehow the voltage is too low due to all of the slots being used

[mariushm]

Yeah, the only other thing that comes to mind would be the board may not like mixing single rank (your 4GB sticks) with dual rank (your 8GB sticks) memory sticks

 

Boosting the voltage a bit could help. You should also test all 4 sticks at 1600 Mhz or even 1333 Mhz, see if that's more stable.

 

and yeah, i meant memtest86, and for a 4GB stick a single pass shouldn't take more than around 20-30 minutes, but maybe they added more tests within a pass since i last used it.

 

[Alir]

15 minutes ago, aezakmi said:

do what badreg said and also disable any "XMP" profile and try to manually tune as most latencies as you can (set them to the stock values) also manually set the voltage to 1.51V, the .1V is on purpose to see if somehow the voltage is too low due to all of the slots being used

 

27 minutes ago, badreg said:

Are you running XMP with the 2x8? If so, dual rank @ 1866Mhz is asking a lot from the IMC. Try going down to 1600Mhz and see if your issues go away.

 

lol where are you guys getting this idea from? I'm not mixing any RAM sticks together AT ALL. The freezes happen even when I have only a single 8GB stick in the PC. And the freezes happen with both 8GB sticks!

 

I checked for XMP settings in my BIOS and I could not find it. Regardless though, I have not been overclocking the RAM in any way. I just load the default RAM settings which come shipped from the factory. According to my motherboard's specs, it should accept the 8GB modules.

[Alir]

11 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Yeah, the only other thing that comes to mind would be the board may not like mixing single rank (your 4GB sticks) with dual rank (your 8GB sticks) memory sticks

 

Boosting the voltage a bit could help. You should also test all 4 sticks at 1600 Mhz or even 1333 Mhz, see if that's more stable.

 

and yeah, i meant memtest86, and for a 4GB stick a single pass shouldn't take more than around 20-30 minutes, but maybe they added more tests within a pass since i last used it.

 

 

Please refer to my last comment.

 

I am not mixing the RAM sticks at all when the PC freezes.

 

The only RAM sticks that I have combined are the ones I'm supposed to. I mix the 2x4GB together. Or I mix the 2x8GB together.

[Alir]

When I mix the 2x4GB, the PC is fine and dandy.

 

When I put even a single 8GB stick in any of the slots, the PC freezes.

 

It doesn't happen instantly. At least not most of the time. Most of the time the PC runs for a bit and then randomly freezes out of the blue.

[badreg]

2 minutes ago, Alir said:

 

 

lol where are you guys getting this idea from? I'm not mixing any RAM sticks together AT ALL. The freezes happen even when I have only a single 8GB stick in the PC. And the freezes happen with both 8GB sticks!

 

I checked for XMP settings in my BIOS and I could not find it. Regardless though, I have not been overclocking the RAM in any way. I just load the default RAM settings which come shipped from the factory. According to my motherboard's specs, it should accept the 8GB modules.

Please run CPU-Z and post screenshots of the Memory and SPD tabs.

[Alir]

[Alir]

20 minutes ago, badreg said:

Please run CPU-Z and post screenshots of the Memory and SPD tabs. 

The readings are exactly the same as the 2x4GB model. Except the 2x8GB are Dual Rank

[Alir]

I can't post the Memory tab as I do not have the RAM modules inserted. That screenshot from above is several months old.

 

Re-inserting the modules now would take too long as I would need to remove my CPU cooler.

[Alir]

I purchased the RAM last January from Amazon. So I have around a week to decide if I will return them as faulty. HyperX have offered to replace them as it is within the lifetime guarantee.

 

I really don't know what to do at this point.

 

If I choose to replace them, the new sticks might have the same problem.

 

Also, Amazon sent me an email a few months back basically telling me to stop returning stuff. Don't want to risk my account being shut down. Amazon have a solid reputation for being irrational when it comes to returns and also shutting down peoples' accounts.

 

I mean I can try and return them. But it's a risk.

[Alir]

So am I correct that the conclusion is that anything could be at fault here? I was hoping for a more lazy friendly answer like "yeh just replace the RAM".