Windows 9 will reportedly ship in 2015, codenamed 'Threshold'

[geogga]

I really hate how windows so soo much more than the others...

I probably should have gotten windows 8 for $80 on sale from newegg, oh well

[HaneZane001]

Does Microsoft have plans on adding aero glass to windows 8? Since I would buy 7 over 8 just because of aero. I have no problem with the lack of start menu & app screen but the lack of aero. That hurts me badly, very badly.

[GoodBytes]

Does Microsoft have plans on adding aero glass to windows 8? Since I would buy 7 over 8 just because of aero. I have no problem with the lack of start menu & app screen but the lack of aero. That hurts me badly, very badly.

No. It goes against Windows 8 Metro language. It used to be there during the development build, as despite not fitting, Microsoft wanted to provide a familiar place to people, as a transition stage. But everyone complained on how Aero had no place in Windows 8 (I mean they were right, but you can see what Microsoft was trying to do) so it got changed.

 

Windows 8 Beta:

(yes that is the Start Button.. it was criticized that it had no place, so it was removed... now it's back)

[HaneZane001]

No. It goes against Windows 8 Metro language. It used to be there during the development build, as despite not fitting, Microsoft wanted to provide a familiar place to people, as a transition stage. But everyone complained on how Aero had no place in Windows 8 (I mean they were right, but you can see what Microsoft was trying to do) so it got changed.

 

Windows 8 Beta:

-snip-

Aw, that looked really good, but I still don't understand why they couldn't just take everything related to aero (IE: round boarders, glass, etc) and make its own theme though? Instead of just having the default metro theme and the windows classic 95(?) theme.

 

I would do anything to get aero as long as I don't have to do any uxbender (or whatever you call it) to get a 3rd party theme.

[GoodBytes]

On a bit of a side note, why is windows so expensive?

Good question.

 

Unlike MacOS or Android, Windows isn't based on someone else work that is done for free (Linux/Unix).

And Operating System is a VERY, extremely, in fact, peace of software. The whole interface thing that people complain about is about 10% of the entire software.

 

And Operating System does what the name says.. it operated your system. Without one, all your hardware inside your computer is as useful as a door stopper.

It controls your hardware, it interfaces with it, to do what you want to do, in the simplest possible way, by hiding all the complex working behind so that you can get your stuff done quickly and with greatest ease.

 

An Operating System has the following components in a nut shell:

 -> Device Manager (I mean the actual managing of devices. When you see this component, how do you know what it is? Is it a graphic card? Should I (the OS) provide information for it to display things? If so, I need to process what the graphic card, through it's driver... a peace of interface system that "I am" (the OS) using to understand how many display are connected, what resolution, what size, refresh rate, and so on, so that I can inform the driver to apply these settings, and then adapt the the entire GUI for such display setup. If you ask yourself how to do it, you can see how fairly complicated that is, in fact it's years of development. And that is JUST the graphic card. And we still assume we know what a graphic card is. What if its a brand new technology that no one thought about? It has to be compatible. And that is just the basics. You need to interact with each device and try to avoid grid locks, something that does happen in a computer. Example, you use the scanner and printer in a way that they are both dependent of each other.. a bit far fetch, I agree, but possible... you have to avoid this)

 

 -> Driver Management. You must be able to dynamically load and unload drivers, without system being interrupted, and recover form crashes. As you can see this is something that we recently experience, since Vista. Why? Not easy, and resource intensive (well not really, but it's an added layer that adds lag in the drivers, and when you play a game, or do something very intensive, micro seconds delay adds up for every call being made, which reduces system performance). And of course you have the whole, what is a driver, how it should operate for others to use it so that the OS can interface with it, and all that (from the previous point).

 

 -> Secondary Storage Management  (proper term: Disk access and file systems) . How to operate them? How to tell the hard drive to put data where, how to tell the hardware which sector and location to get data. (you can't say: "Get me C:\Users\GoodBytes\Music\shitty-pop-music.mp3". It doesn't work that way. Windows has to manually tell it what to do. The controller of the hard drive or solid state drive, will take care of how to get things. Also, you must have a drive format to know how to store data on the drive. That is why you have drive format like FAT16, which is limited to 4GiB (~4GB) files. You want security layer to this for permissions, also, so that 1 account can't access someone else account files. Then you may want to implement full name support and not compressed, and the ability to hide files, and such.

 

 -> Modes. The operating System defines with the CPU 2 modes, Supervisor and Protected mode. Supervisor is a mode that has 0 restriction, and that is what the OS uses. You can only have 1 supervisor. This is why viruses that is put on your boot time, are deadly. As it puts itself as supervisor mode, and the OS as protected mode, and beside the performance drop by the OS as the OS does things that cannot be done in protected mode, so the virus takes those commands, executes itself, and send it to the OS, making the OS being blinded with what is going on, and that virus has devastating results on your system, and no anti-virus or malware or even rootkit removal software or scanner will detect anything. That is why we finally have Secure-Boot with UEFI, and Windows 8 supports it (about time!). Windows as a supervisor has to be sure that processes don't try funny things and do things it should not. This is high security, and you need to think of all possibilities., and not be opened to security holes. All OS have a rule: processes can't communicate with other processes directly. The only way is use shared memory space, or use an OS API which allows some level of messaging between processes, where both needs to be implemented.

 

 -> Memory Management. Programs are compiled in a way that they assume that its the only thing running. The OS has a role to execute it upon request, and locate memory for it, and adapt memory addresses for the program. Meaning, the program has a set of instruction and itself assumes that the first thing it has starts at address 0  (well 00000... 32 times if it's a 32-bit program, or 64 times, if it's a 64-bit programs). In a program you have things addressing other things in memory. Like a function is calling another function to do something. Or takes number and add something to it, and store that number. When the OS will load it, it won't position the program at memory location 0, as all programs starts at 0.

It need to place it at a location that is free, where the entire program can be fitted without being cut into 2 or more. And then, as the program is being executing, it adds the offset to every instructions. So if the program starts at memory position 1000 (let's say), then is variable A is being called at position 1, it will be called in reality at position 1001. So the good news is that, Ram doesn't get fragmented. Yay! And you kinda see, why these "memory optimizer" software are useless. Fantastic.. oh but the empty space between processes which occurs when you open and close programs of various memory footprint . Oh, something I forgot to mention. When a program is in memory, it can't be moved. There is no OS, today that has such ability. So you have fragemented free space (odd to say, but true)... so the OS needs to fix that. And that is one of the purposes of the pagefile to perform cleaning operation (defrag of empty space) when needed.

 

-> Virtual Memory. The pagefile. The other role of the page file, is to extent the RAM in the case it gets full. Now, all this is neat, but the CPU can't see what is outside of the RAM. It can't access anything form your hard drive or solid state drive. It MUST be in memory to process. So the OS has to shuffle things around between what to put on the HDD/SSD and the memory as you, the user, switches between applications.

 

-> Scheduler. We like to multi-task. So the OS needs to provide a specific number of time for every process, and it goes one by one satisfying every needs. That is how we could multi-task with our single core processors back in the old days. Now we have multi-core CPU, and the modern OS of today (Vista and up, in the case of Windows) needs to work (it's scheduler) with multiple processor to satisfies program needs. And in the mix, you have program that uses multiple CPUs at the same time, and that is another headache to solve, in how to manage all this mess. You also have a game of priorities.. just saying, if you started to think about it

 

 -> Working with interrupts! The CPU gets interrupts call all the time. Every key you hit on the keyboard or as you move your mouse, all calls interrupts on your CPU, which the CPU informs the OS, which the OS process that (needs the CPU to do this), and tells the CPU what to do. You don't see any slow down, as the CPU processes billions if not more, operations per seconds. We are uber slow for Mr. CPU.

 

Oh did I mention that every component mentioned so far, and what is to follow must all work "simultaneously"... implement that part in the scheduler.. did I made this puzzle a living hell already?

 

 

-> Networking! My friend! How can I ever forget you.... ok I am getting tired now, so I'll cut keep in bullet points.

-> Network Security.

-> General System Security (Accounts, etc.)

-> Process Management

And actually they are more with our today's Operating System, but as core pure foundation of an OS, the above, is what is it.

 

If you desire to seek what is inside the "more" part. well you have things like:

 - User Interface, which has many sub groups like: Shell rendering engine, font drawing, font management system, graphic module, user interaction (pointers), DPI scaling, cursor management, program UI wraper (the window of a program). GUI shell language and communication system to allow programs to use the system GUI (buttons, tabs, scroll bars, text boxes, and so on), and a lot, a lot more.

 - Power Management.

 - Services

 - Registry (in the case of Windows)

....

 

Conclusion (marked in bold and underlined for those that skips this wall of text)

 

So... now I think you understand why Vista took 6 years to develop, and even then, it felt a bit rushed, all because Microsoft decided to re-do the OS from scratch (well about 80% remade, and still keeps many of the foundations structure, ideas, and how things works, from previous Windows).

 

It's several thousands of engineers working around the clock. You have more engineers working on Windows, than to make a GPU or CPU. Same for Linux and Linux based OSs... the thousands of people volunteering their free time for this.

 

Mix with the fact that engineers, as their job is hell'ish, and very few can actually do it, especially at OS level, demands 6 figures salary and lots of benefits for their skills, knowledge and ideas, and ability to create something out of nothing. You can see, why Windows cost so much. And actually, it's pretty cheap. Look at Photoshop.. it's several hundred of dollars! Now they are going with monthly payment subscription. What a rip off!

Windows 8 is 139$.. a game is 60$... only made at most, for a AAA title, a few hundred of people. No wonder the price drops MASSIVELY after a month or so. You use Windows for 3 to 6 years straight, daily, countless hours... a game, not so much, especially for 60$.. ouch.

 

And that ignoring any special pricing that Windows has at release. Like Windows 8 was 40$ from October when it was released to Jan 31st. That is less than a game!

[Puddleuk]

Some people probably want Windows 9 to go back to the XP/Win7 style but it probably won't happen. I get what they tried to achieve with Windows 8 and for the most part it was a success. People just don't like change (even when its ultimately for the better).

 

I think its interesting to see what is coming up after Windows 8, I don't expect any massive changes to be honest.

[TheProfosist]

Thats seems far earlier than expected for what I gathered from the win 8 developer stuff. My guess is that its due to the bad press. Likely much of what was going to be win8.x is now going to be win9.

[TheProfosist]

Hope its going to have a different version for desktops and touchscreen devices unlike win8 trying to be both and failing at both

May I ask why you say that as it really isnt.

Windows NEIN! sorry I had to... I hope the ditch the Modern UI or at least on the desktop version of the system; possibly give you a choice or some kind of customisation. I honestly don't mind the simplicity but I prefer my start menu and the Desktop experience compared to the modern UI. Merging both UIs together could also be a good thing if done correctly.

It could also be a complete mess and headache. I personally think the start menu for win8 that a few leaks have been talking about is actaully going to be worse than the start screen.

[TheProfosist]

Codename: Threshold. Yeah just on the "Threshold" of being as good as Windows XP was/Is.

Go run winxp prior to sp2 on a p4 with 512mb of ram and then tell me that.

[TheProfosist]

They should keep ModernUI, but give an option to turn it off.

You essentially have that now with the navagation options in 8.1 that allow boot to desktop and the such.

xp was slow as balls, everyone just got used to it

That and they have been running it on hardware that was quite overkill for it for at least 5 years now.

64 bit was awful. The 32 bit version is comparable to 7 in terms of speed...unofficially of course.

64bit was alright but didnt have dricer support since it was based off the server os at the time and most people wanted to run consumer hardware.

In tearms of speed its nothing like 7 as it doesnt support most of todays current tech hell even 3 years old tech. Most of the speed you get from it is because the hardware thats its being run on is complete overkill.

Yeah that's what I meant when saying possibly 'give you a choice or some kind of customisation'. I mean quite honestly Modern UI isn't bad at all and actually works really nicely on a tablet or a touchscreen computer but for a desktop computer it's a little too clunky and space taking hence why I don't use it.

Make the things smaller thus taking up far less space... I find its nicer to use since ill pop up and your cursor stays where it is so its for quicker to click on things than going to the lower left than up over up over etc.

[Grave]

I just want an OS that looks slightly different overall (sharper, sleek, easy to use without clutter and stupid features). A bonus would be a version of it that is extremely basic, something that is pretty much barebones. No bloatware or programs I'll never use, just something to run my PC with..

Perhaps I'm describing SteamOS or Linux (I know nothing about either).

[TheProfosist]

I see a buch of uninformed windows h8ers once again. This is something I really shouldnt have to see on a tech forum where embracing new technology is almost a given. If your going to bash something please at least have something concrete to back it up. A example would a use case where win7 is accomplising something that win8 cant or is achieving it significantly quicker. I can think of a few off of the top of my head at the moment but none of them have anything to do with the UI.

Ill reply to the rest of the posts tomorrow for now im off to bed.

Night All!

[TheProfosist]

I just want an OS that looks slightly different overall (sharper, sleek, easy to use without clutter and stupid features). A bonus would be a version of it that is extremely basic, something that is pretty much barebones. No bloatware or programs I'll never use, just something to run my PC with..

Perhaps I'm describing SteamOS or Linux (I know nothing about either).

What do you define as extremely basic or barebones for an os, like what does it need to be able to do and what does it not need to be able to do?

[joelthezombie15]

They can make windows 9. because 7 8 9. 

[kuddlesworth9419]

then ill be sticking with w7 for a long time till game support drops it.

I hate app stores with a passion.

So do I. I am also going to stay with W7 until Steam OS or another Linux distro gets good enough to where I would want to make a full switch. I will probably keep W7 though and just dual boot whichever Linux distro I choose. Probably Mint though.

[Kirihuna]

a game is 60$... only made at most, for a AAA title, a few hundred of people. No wonder the price drops MASSIVELY after a month or so.

Wait what.

 

Do you mean it's made for only a few hundred to buy it.

 

Or a few hundred made it.

 

The latter would be correct...

[neon]

I hope there is just one version that includes everything, none of this 'Pro' 'non Pro' nonsense, just sell one Pro version the people who don't know the difference won't notice, but the people who do can actually use some of the features like Remote Desktop, better network options and Bitlocker will greatly appreciate it, and that they only have a 64 bit version, it's time 32 bit died already, makes sense to have just one OS than loads of slightly different ones.

[raphidy]

I just switch to 8.1 from win 7 and I love how I can switch from desktop to app (or the split screens), like Facebook. I just don't have to pin that in my browser and have millions of things pinned down. The OS is fast. Also, it took me an hour or two to get used to, all the shortcuts and new features. I don't like the concept of an OS going cloud base privacy wise but I think, with smartphone and all, that is the good direction.

[R4STABAN]

Hopefully 9 will still be compatible with WHS 2011 as I will be upgrading to it I imagine.

 

Windows 8 would be alright if they got rid of some of the tablet rubbish.

[Eroda]

The start screen is customizable. You can pin all your games, programs, folders and move things around.

You want to pin the most used items at the bottom left corner of the screen, and the left used ones where you want to scroll.

The really most used programs, you want it pinned on the task bar.

 

 

 

doesnt help because i run dual monitors and run my games full screen windowed to allow fast switching between monitors and the windows key is not my enemy i use it to bring up the task bar and the start menu to access programs and folders etc while im still in games, if i wanted to minimize the game or have something covering it i would run 1 monitor. windows 8  and metro just doesnt work for how i have used my computer since the dawn of time and i wont upgrade if it means i have to completly change how i use a computer. MS should compromise not me.. if they want my money that is windows 7 will be fine for many years yet especially with consoles keeping games in the dx11 era 

[Cookie Monster]

I wonder how delayed this release will be? I remember how long we had to wait for 'Longhorn'.

[ZombieHawk]

"Microsoft is looking to reveal Windows 9 at its Build conference in April, leaving the disappointment of Windows 8 behind it as soon as possible, according to a prominent tipster.

Windows 9, currently codenamed 'Threshold', will go on sale a year later, in April 2015,according to the reliable Paul Thurrott.

"To distance itself from the Windows 8 debacle, Microsoft is currently planning to drop the Windows 8 name and brand this next release as Windows 9," Thurrott writes. "That could change, but that's the current thinking."

Development work won't start on the new version until later this spring, but Microsoft is expected to announce new features at Build.".... more on http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/windows-9-rumoured-for-april-reveal-2015-launch-50013213/

 

[Eddyall]

"Windows 9, now with separated UI because not all machine are the same!"

[defunkt]

ffs.. Remember when they made a good operating system once every million years?

[wng_kingsley7]

ffs.. Remember when they made a good operating system once every million years?

tru tru