I just got my first sound card

[EPICSNIPER145]

if your headphones are detailed enough then yes, it would help with picking up some of the quieter dynamics. This is especially true if your headphones are quite because they have a lower sensitivity rather than a higher impedance.

ok thank you

[BlackMirror]

whatever stop being annoying and f off 

Wow man why did you post this? Hopefully to get opinions on it and not just say im the best i got a xxSoundcardxx.

So if you are happy with your soundcard ,good!But than dont flame people just because you dont like their opinions.I can fully understand the point with the volume , the other part hm not so much.?Why? Because alot of my friends have sound cards and sometimes I take my headset with me and I just cant hear the difference from my current motherboard.

I hope that you are a troll 

 

EDIT: I take that last sentence back

[Humbug]

Relevant reading: Subjective vs. Objective Debate

Yep,

That's why i'm interested in blind listening tests. Not for the opening posters problem (as he just required more amplification for his headphones). A lot of the discussion on here tends to center around what's best when using headphones and impedance matching etc...

I would like to see some blind listening tests when using powered speakers as most PC enthusiasts use. And changing the source back and forth between various onboard solutions, sound cards and external DACs.

 

This was mentioned in a PM, there are a lot of tools that you need in order to make it happen, its not just plug and go. 

No doubt it's a big effort... just think it's worth doing. Because at the end of the day it's still very easy to discredit the video by Logan and Mayflower; they may be right or they may be wrong and let's be honest it was not the most detailed or scientific video (which is ok). But who's to say unless you the put the theory to the test? Especially when different people give conflicting advice as seen in this subforum. I personally would be interested in the results because I currently have to admit I don't know..

[EPICSNIPER145]

Wow man why did you post this? Hopefully to get opinions on it and not just say im the best i got a xxSoundcardxx.

So if you are happy with your soundcard ,good!But than dont flame people just because you dont like their opinions.I can fully understand the point with the volume , the other part hm not so much.?Why? Because alot of my friends have sound cards and sometimes I take my headset with me and I just cant hear the difference from my current motherboard.

I hope that you are a troll

I can't take back what I said I was mad and i said what I said and no I'm not a troll I was just mad

[SSL]

Yep,

That's why i'm interested in blind listening tests. Not for the opening posters problem (as he just required more amplification for his headphones). A lot of the discussion on here tends to center around what's best when using headphones and impedance matching etc...

I would like to see some blind listening tests when using powered speakers as most PC enthusiasts use. And changing the source back and forth between various onboard solutions, sound cards and external DACs.

 

No doubt it's a big effort... just think it's worth doing. Because at the end of the day it's still very easy to discredit the video by Logan and Mayflower; they may be right or they may be wrong. Who's to say unless you the put the theory to the test. Especially when different people give conflicting advice as seen in this subforum.

 

My main point with linking the article was to demonstrate that involuntary bias is more likely to be present than not..as such it is reasonable to assume that Logan and others saying the same thing are perfectly correct.

[mr moose]

Yep,

That's why i'm interested in blind listening tests. Not for the opening posters problem (as he just required more amplification for his headphones). A lot of the discussion on here tends to center around what's best when using headphones and impedance matching etc...

I would like to see some blind listening tests when using powered speakers as most PC enthusiasts use. And changing the source back and forth between various onboard solutions, sound cards and external DACs.

 

No doubt it's a big effort... just think it's worth doing. Because at the end of the day it's still very easy to discredit the video by Logan and Mayflower; they may be right or they may be wrong and let's be honest it was not the most detailed or scientific video (which is ok). But who's to say unless you the put the theory to the test? Especially when different people give conflicting advice as seen in this subforum. I personally would be interested in the results because I currently have to admit I don't know..

 

I definitely want to see blind tests.  There are a few on the web for amplifiers and a few for audio files, but the ones setup for audio cards/dacs etc are not properly setup, they are not level matched nor are they well logged.  But I agree, the results would definitely be worth having.

[Humbug]

My main point with linking the article was to demonstrate that involuntary bias is more likely to be present than not..as such it is reasonable to assume that Logan and others saying the same thing are perfectly correct.

Fully agreed the bias is likely to be present...

But we can't just assume that this accounts for 100% of the differences that people claim they hear. Which is why we need blind listening tests properly set up as @mr moose says....

[SSL]

Fully agreed the bias is likely to be present...

But we can't just assume that this accounts for 100% of the differences that people claim they hear. Which is why we need blind listening tests properly set up as @mr moose says....

 

Well, of course. I'd love to see blind tests, though I doubt they would provide a complete antidote to the controversy...quite the opposite if I'm any judge.

[MayflowerElectronics]

I don't want to get involved in this thread, just saying this for the last time.

Our video wasn't meant to be an advertisement. I told Logan multiple times to NOT say anything about our products, he did anyway.

The video was a quick and dirty video covering some basics in audio with laymens terms. I would need a 2 hour video to explain everything properly and no one wants to watch that.

For everyone calling the video bullshit, please prove me wrong with a proper test and I will eat my words, or my pants, whichever one you want.

[Humbug]

I would need a 2 hour video to explain everything properly and no one wants to watch that.

Yes we do, many of us do actually have the attention span for it.

[MayflowerElectronics]

Yes we do, many of us do actually have the attention span for it.

Unfortunately most don't. I though we were stretching it at 20 miniutes. I would throw one on my own channel but I only have like 55 subs, I don't think anyone would see it.

[R4STABAN]

I don't think there's much to say

 

If the audio is better externally you need good gear and good source to notice. Most members of this community don't have that. Soundcard or onboard is adequate for them, external is an option if they have no free expansion slots.

 

There's a lot of nazi hubbub over this as if external solutions are the only way to go.

[ALXAndy]

you say they are different and link an old test to an old onboard solution then claim this is proof.

 

I remind you that no-one uses nor has said that the old onboard is better and ask you to find a newer test the compares and you can't.

Then when I inform you that the reason you can't find one is because they are rare and don't actually prove anything you still want me to find you one.

 

Well here:

 

Impedance of all the common sound solutions on the market:

 

http://monoadc.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-99.html

 

Specs to all the realtek devices out there:

 

http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4

you can look up the asus or creative websites for their specs and do a straight comparison.

 

why impedance matters:

 

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

 

A whole heap of random information that is important to understanding digital media:

 

http://www.xiph.org/video/

 

a video explaining audio myths, everything from soundcards to dither and jitter and real world tests proving what specs are important and challenges you can take:

 

 

You still have not answered my question. My question was if Realtek HD sound cards have improved so much then show me the evidence. Show me where they have less harmonic distortion than they used to have, show me the frequency range.

 

You have failed to do this after three replies now. I'm perfectly aware what impedance is, thanks. You seem to want to bang on about that. Just because something is easier to drive does not make it sound better. It just makes it louder, which is what the video claims. However, it's pretty clear that sound cards can be tested in other ways to find out how good they are at producing a good, clean sound.

 

If something sounds louder to me it sounds louder. That doesn't mean it's better. I used to run a 2000w Cerwin Vega Stroker at 2 ohms being fed nearly 4kw with all sorts of compression drivers. Bear in mind this was in a bedroom. It was really, really loud.

 

However I could then switch to my Rogers E40 valve amplifier and LS59 speakers and could immediately say it sounded better. Not louder, better.

 

So again I am going to ask for proof to back up your claims. Stop trying to drag this sideways and stop posting irrelevant links regarding impedance and ohm loads and so on and provide me the evidence that the 'new' Realtek HD sound card produces the same level of quality when compared to a high end audio solution.

 

I'm waiting.

[Recon-UK]

ALXAndy, you are correct, but not against a Realtek 889 or higher.

[MayflowerElectronics]

You still have not answered my question. My question was if Realtek HD sound cards have improved so much then show me the evidence. Show me where they have less harmonic distortion than they used to have, show me the frequency range.

 

You have failed to do this after three replies now. I'm perfectly aware what impedance is, thanks. You seem to want to bang on about that. Just because something is easier to drive does not make it sound better. It just makes it louder, which is what the video claims. However, it's pretty clear that sound cards can be tested in other ways to find out how good they are at producing a good, clean sound.

 

If something sounds louder to me it sounds louder. That doesn't mean it's better. I used to run a 2000w Cerwin Vega Stroker at 2 ohms being fed nearly 4kw with all sorts of compression drivers. Bear in mind this was in a bedroom. It was really, really loud.

 

However I could then switch to my Rogers E40 valve amplifier and LS59 speakers and could immediately say it sounded better. Not louder, better.

 

So again I am going to ask for proof to back up your claims. Stop trying to drag this sideways and stop posting irrelevant links regarding impedance and ohm loads and so on and provide me the evidence that the 'new' Realtek HD sound card produces the same level of quality when compared to a high end audio solution.

 

I'm waiting.

 

ftp://209.222.7.36/pc/audio/ALC898_DataSheet_1.1.pdf

 

http://www.realtek.com/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=3&PNid=24&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=325&DownTypeID=1&GetDown=false&Downloads=true

 

Scroll all the way down, look for the ALC898 chip. It looks like the newest chip, so it might be the best? Too lazy to look at others.

 

Page 10-11 then skip the rest, unless you are designing this chip into a motherboard, then go to page 78-79, 82 is jitter, 83 is probably the most important, lists output/input impedance, THD+N, ect ect.

 

Frequency range is irrelevant and a moot spec.

[ALXAndy]

ftp://209.222.7.36/pc/audio/ALC898_DataSheet_1.1.pdf

 

Page 10-11 then skip the rest, unless you are designing this chip into a motherboard, then go to page 78-79, 82 is jitter, 83 is probably the most important, lists output/input impedance, THD+N, ect ect.

 

Frequency range is irrelevant and a moot spec.

 

It's asking for a log in to an FTP.

[MayflowerElectronics]

It's asking for a log in to an FTP.

 

Wierd

 

http://www.realtek.com/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=3&PNid=24&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=325&DownTypeID=1&GetDown=false&Downloads=true

 

Scroll all the way to the bottom, it's the ALC898 chip.

[Humbug]

Frequency range is irrelevant and a moot spec.

Why?

[MayflowerElectronics]

Why?

 

http://ethanwiner.com/myths.html

 

Too lazy to type, just woke up. Humans can't hear beyond 20hz-20khz. You can feel the air moving below 20hz, but you can't hear anything.

[Humbug]

http://ethanwiner.com/myths.html

 

Too lazy to type, just woke up. Humans can't hear beyond 20hz-20khz. You can feel the air moving below 20hz, but you can't hear anything.

Ah ok- yep I am aware about the audible range. So do all solutions ranging from onboard to fiio have this range covered in a neutral manner?

[MayflowerElectronics]

Ah ok- yep I am aware about the audible range. So do all solutions ranging from onboard to fiio have this range covered in a neutral manner?

 

Yes.

[Humbug]

Yes.

thanks

[Canoas]

This is what people in this thread don't understand:

everything.

 

It's VERY VERY VERY VERY easy to compare on-board audio with a sound-card. It is documented. The codecs have the specifications. So please, to those claiming your on-board audio is as good as a sound-card just say what motherboard you use and it'll be increadibly easy to say whether you're half deaf or your on-board is indeed good.

 

 

Yes.  My own ears.  There is no difference.  Even tested on my dads stupidly old motherboard.  Still no difference.

I'm specially interested in this motherboard.