Future of the Windows Mobile Platform

[Nowak]

Just now, SansVarnic said:

Yes I can. I do it all the time. My phone (via the same app) receives the request to login in and I have accept or decline each time, that is how my login is set up.

As in, like this. This feature is exclusive to the iOS and Android versions of the Microsoft Authenticator app.

 

2 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I digress, the answer to your question has been laid out already. I am unsure how to redraw this picture for you. The fact that you continue to reference other phones in example shows me you cannot view this topic in any other way than the self-imposed limitation  you have.

I am just going by what is currently attracting consumer attention. Like it or not, Windows is starting to lose relevance in the consumer world. The failure of Windows Phone and Windows 10 falling short of its "1 billion devices" goal by half a billion devices are the first signs of that.

 

2 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

Microsoft is not looking to make another phone. What more can I say to make it a bit more clear for you to understand? (I am not being cynical here)

Then what are they looking to make? They've been beyond vague about it, and using nothing but buzzwords to describe what they wish to make. "The next form factor." "A new mobile category." Actions speak louder than words.

[SansVarnic]

1 minute ago, Daring said:

As in, like this. This feature is exclusive to the iOS and Android versions of the Microsoft Authenticator app.

No it is not exclusive, it works the exact same way on my Lumia 950XL with the Microsoft Authenticator app.

3 minutes ago, Daring said:

I am just going by what is currently attracting consumer attention. Like it or not, Windows is starting to lose relevance in the consumer world. The failure of Windows Phone and Windows 10 falling short of its "1 billion devices" goal by half a billion devices are the first signs of that.

That is just that though, this discussion about something different than whats current and in favor. Microsoft is looking to change the feild of play and invent new rules to play by. If this concept fails it fails but that is not directly relevant to the discussion at hand; what we are discussing is what this may be and what it can do, the possibility of change etc....

9 minutes ago, Daring said:

Then what are they looking to make? They've been beyond vague about it, and using nothing but buzzwords to describe what they wish to make. "The next form factor." "A new mobile category." Actions speak louder than words.

I do not know. All I can do is conjecture and take educated guess' about the device and it abilities. 

 

A new article that I just read that partly addresses this.

http://1reddrop.com/2017/04/21/microsoft-ceo-satya-nadella-interview-new-paradigm-windows-10-mobility/

Quote

So when we talk about Windows 10, it’s not about a device operating system anymore, it’s an operating system for all of your devices.

That’s how we’re trying to not only tackle the innovative challenge of bringing new things to life, but also deal with the social complexity of a lot of devices in your life.

                                                             –   Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella

Yes Nadella is being cryptic but this the point to all this, look at all MS has done over the last few years with Nadella in charge. Yes actions do speak louder than words but you have to pay attention to all the actions taken and so far as I can tell the picture looks fairly interesting.

 

I am truly excited about this and if the concept does fail welp, then I guess I will have to live with it but don't limit and narrow the options of what is available before the horse is out of the gate. Lets continue to wait and see what become all this.

 

One thing else to remember is before Nadella was able to focus Microsoft on this path he had to do massive damage control from his predecessor so there are going to have to be things that need to be overlooked and a lot of that is the Windows Phone platform that was burned by Steve Ballmer. The Windows Phone could have had a much bigger market share had Ballmer not crapped on it and Nokia the way he did.

[Nowak]

Just now, SansVarnic said:

No it is not exclusive, it works the exact same way on my Lumia 950XL with the Microsoft Authenticator app.

*sigh* You don't understand. The app on Windows Phone still requires you to enter a password before you can approve the sign-in. On iOS and Android, when you type in your Microsoft account username, then hit next, it'll skip entering the password and go straight to the "approve the sign-in" step. They seem to have changed their wording in the update dated 4/18/2017, but a few days ago, it read this:

 

 

Microsoft doesn't care about its own mobile users. Just those on iOS and Android.

 

2 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

That is just that though, this discussion about something different than whats current and in favor. Microsoft is looking to change the feild of play and invent new rules to play by. If this concept fails it fails but that is not directly relevant to the discussion at hand; what we are discussing is what this may be and what it can do, the possibility of change etc....

As I said. Actions speak louder than words. They can keep talking about "reinventing" the wheel, but how will they do it? All we have is vague Marketing-ese. No leaks, either, just endless rumors based on whatever vague thing this or that Microsoft exec has said.

[SansVarnic]

1 minute ago, Daring said:

*sigh* You don't understand. The app on Windows Phone still requires you to enter a password before you can approve the sign-in. On iOS and Android, when you type in your Microsoft account username, then hit next, it'll skip entering the password and go straight to the "approve the sign-in" step. They seem to have changed their wording in the update dated 4/18/2017, but a few days ago, it read this:

 

 

Microsoft doesn't care about its own mobile users. Just those on iOS and Android.

 

As I said. Actions speak louder than words. They can keep talking about "reinventing" the wheel, but how will they do it? All we have is vague Marketing-ese. No leaks, either, just endless rumors based on whatever vague thing this or that Microsoft exec has said.

I do understand. Thing is I think I know the confusion is here, I have the previewers version I may have the options you are describing that others don't.

The last time I logged into my account all I did was press the accept on my phones notification bar without entering my password just as you described. Thing is you have to have it set up in your account settings to do this though.

I completely understand what you are saying and I do have this.

[LAwLz]

Holy crap the delusion of some Microsoft fanboys...

How many times have we heard "just you wait guys! Once they do X and Y and Z then it will be awesome!"? It's been 7 years and we are still hearing it.

 

Oh the Surface phone isn't a phone anymore? It's a "cellular PC in the form-factor of a phone"? That's a really convoluted way of saying it's a smartphone.

 

I don't even get how this is news. It's just some random blog speculating about stuff with no substance. Would it be news if I posted a link to my blog where I wrote an essay about how Google might introduce an Android powered buttplug and how it would revolutionize the smartphone industry? It would not be an ordinary buttplug. It would be a "cellular PC in the form-factor of a buttplug".

 

 

[vorticalbox]

19 hours ago, Daring said:

*sigh* You don't understand. The app on Windows Phone still requires you to enter a password before you can approve the sign-in. On iOS and Android, when you type in your Microsoft account username, then hit next, it'll skip entering the password and go straight to the "approve the sign-in" step. They seem to have changed their wording in the update dated 4/18/2017, but a few days ago, it read this:

 

 

Microsoft doesn't care about its own mobile users. Just those on iOS and Android.

 

As I said. Actions speak louder than words. They can keep talking about "reinventing" the wheel, but how will they do it? All we have is vague Marketing-ese. No leaks, either, just endless rumors based on whatever vague thing this or that Microsoft exec has said.

just installed, it has that feature you're referencing. 

[LAwLz]

On 2017-04-21 at 2:12 AM, SansVarnic said:

Despite the name that it’s been given, Surface Phone isn’t going to be a phone at all. At least, not if Microsoft is designing what they refer to as a “cellular PC” that will have all the capabilities of a PC in the form factor of a smartphone or phablet.

No citation. He is pulling this from his ass. And what the hell does it even meant when he says it's not a phone, it's a "cellular PC in the form factor of a smartphone"?

Reminds me of how Newt Gingrich looked like an idiot called his smartphone a "handheld computer".

 

But I get what he is saying. He is saying that the surface phone will run x86 programs.

 

 

On 2017-04-21 at 2:12 AM, SansVarnic said:

The whole idea behind Surface Phone is so that Microsoft won’t have to scramble for market share in the unfairly competitive smartphone operating system market, where Android rules and iOS holds fort on the strength of its devices. And that’s about it. Windows, right now, holds a minuscule 0.3 percent marketshare in this fiercely competitive segment that is the mobile OS world.

The whole idea behind Surface Phone is so that Microsoft won’t have to scramble for market share in the unfairly competitive smartphone operating system market, where Android rules and iOS holds fort on the strength of its devices. And that’s about it. Windows, right now, holds a minuscule 0.3 percent marketshare in this fiercely competitive segment that is the mobile OS world.

And that’s why butting their head (once again) against a brick wall that is now fortified with industrial-grade steel in the form of Android and iOS is sheer lunacy.

Which is exactly why Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella won’t be doing that. His approach to everything has been faultlessly methodical, yet creatively devious.

The problem with this idea is that it sucks ass. Even if you assume that it works perfectly going between smartphone mode and desktop mode á la Continuum style (which currently sucks harder than a collapsed star) it would still be a terrible product.

It would be a terrible phone because in phone mode it would just be a Windows 10 Mobile smartphone, just like the horrible ones we got today. App support would be lacking, it would still be way behind in terms of hardware, it would be behind in terms of OS features and so on. All the drawbacks of having a Windows phone today.

But not only that, it would be a terrible desktop computer as well. The performance would be horrible compared to a real computer like a desktop or laptop (because of much lower performing hardware in addition to the software emulation layer). There is no way they will fit the equivalence of an i5 inside the phone, or a decent amount of RAM with a good SSD.

 

So you get a device that does not satisfy anyone.

 

 

On 2017-04-21 at 2:12 AM, SansVarnic said:

Now, it’s time for the second half of that strategy: the ‘mobile first’ part. And by mobile, Nadella is not talking about mobile phones. He’s referring to mobility in the abstract. And that’s essentially what Surface Phone represents. That is also why it is so many years in the making. Surface Phone is not a smartphone in any conventional sense except, perhaps, from a physical dimensions perspective – the fact that you will eventually be able to hold it in your hand and put it in your pocket. But that’s as far as the similarity between a Surface Phone and a smartphone or phablet goes. Period.

This sounds like it was written by Microsoft's marketing team.

"It might look like a smartphone, but it's so much more!".

The definition of a smartphone is that it's a phone which can do many of the things a traditional computer can do. What he is describing is a smartphone, not some "cellular PC".

 

 

On 2017-04-21 at 2:12 AM, SansVarnic said:

Major technology cycles come in waves, and it might help to explain the concept pictorially:

That’s Surface Phone right there, at the bottom, below “see” level, biding its time.

Meanwhile, the smartphone market has reached a measure of maturity, which we’re seeing as a decline in smartphone sales growth around the world. Sales will eventually stabilize, but we’re not going to see any major innovations from here on out – not even from Apple, I dare say.

More bullshit he pulls out of his ass without any source or rational.

It's basically just "the surface phone is going to be amazing guys, the smartphone industry is going to go stale and since I am too dumb to understand what a smartphone is I will claim that the Surface phone will succeed and totally not be affected by this flat-lining I am talking about!"

 

Weird how he says smartphone has reached a measure of maturity when other analysis claim that it will continue to grow, and are expected to break more and more records throughout 2017, especially in emerging markets.

 

Or as IDC puts it:

Quote

Coming off the smartphone market's lowest year-over-year growth of 2.5% in 2016, a new forecast from the International Data Corporation (IDC) Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Phone Tracker shows worldwide smartphone shipments rebounding in 2017 and beyond. While growth is expected to remain in the low single digits, IDC predicts shipment volumes to grow 4.2% in 2017 and 4.4% in 2018 with a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 3.8% over the 2016-2021 forecast.

 

From a platform perspective, IDC doesn't expect much change throughout the forecast with Android accounting for roughly 85% of smartphone shipments and Apple making up the rest. The outlook for Microsoft-based smartphones remains virtually nonexistent given the lack of OEM partner support. Although Android growth will gradually decline, IDC does not yet see a point where shipments will contract year over year given the demand for new features such as augmented and virtual reality. For iOS, 2016 was the first time Apple experienced a year-over-year decline in shipments with iPhone volumes falling 7.0%. IDC expects a strong rebound in iPhone volumes in 2017 following the launch of its next set of devices with many rumored technical changes as well as a strong push for the 10th anniversary.

[snip]

 

On 2017-04-21 at 2:12 AM, SansVarnic said:

The question of Windows 10 Mobile being dead – or in its last days – have been denied by Microsoft, but there’s no question that updates are being pushed well after PCs get their new builds. In what can only be termed a confirmation of this dichotomy, Microsoft announced new builds for PC and Mobile for the latest beta of Windows 10, but the build number for PC was 16176, while for mobile it was 15205.

Of course Microsoft will deny it. It would be suicide to go "yeah the truth is that our platform sucks and it was a huge waste of money. We are totally abandoning it, but please keep buying stuff for it OK?".

 

By the way, I think it is hilarious that some people in the Microsoft Defense Force was arguing that Windows Mobile's strength was that the update architecture was much better than on Android. That Microsoft was able to patch all devices with ease, and you would get updates all the time, and all the other garbage MDF was spewing. Then when you look at the history of Windows Phone, you would see that update support has been worse than Android (I have no idea how that is even possible, but Microsoft somehow managed it) and with the recent news that Microsoft is dropping support for the majority of Windows 10 mobile devices it appears like the tradition of horrible software support will continue.

 

 

 

On 2017-04-21 at 2:12 AM, SansVarnic said:

Microsoft is now going after a user experience that neither Google nor Apple can match – the ultimate mobility, evidenced by the ability to switch devices seamlessly without any loss of experience or continuity. Apple and Google have bits and pieces of their own, but revolutionary technological leaps aren’t made by mere bits and pieces.

What's funny is that Microsoft already tried that with Continuum, and it seems like Samsung will provide a better experience with Dex. It's pretty mind boggling that Samsung are able to provide a better desktop solution using smartphones, than Microsoft are.

It takes a special kind of incompetence to fuck up as hard as Microsoft has done. It's like they don't care at all.

 

On 2017-04-21 at 2:12 AM, SansVarnic said:

Unfortunately, the bearers of that burden of transition – at least one group we know of – are Windows 10 Mobile smartphone owners. Hopefully, that will be a temporary experience – labor pains, in other words. We can only hope that Windows mobile users will be patient enough and loyal enough to see that transition through to its inevitable fructification, and be convinced to move to the new generation of mobile devices offering the full Windows experience, not just a mobile one.

Translation: "Please guys, don't give up hope on this terrible platform. It will be awesome in the future I promise! Don't abandon this sinking ship pleeeease!".

 

 

The entire article could be summed up as "I think the surface phone will be able to run x86 programs", and my response to that would be "that's a terrible idea because it would be a horrible smartphone and a shitty desktop".

The idea would only work if Windows 10 Mobile was a great smartphone platform, which it is anything but.

[Nowak]

2 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

just installed, it has that feature you're referencing. 

Everybody I've seen indicates that while the Windows Phone version says "One tap to sign in to Microsoft", it still requires you to enter your password. Sorry, but Microsoft does not care about you if you use Windows Phone.

 

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

The problem with this idea is that it sucks ass. Even if you assume that it works perfectly going between smartphone mode and desktop mode á la Continuum style (which currently sucks harder than a collapsed star) it would still be a terrible product.

It would be a terrible phone because in phone mode it would just be a Windows 10 Mobile smartphone, just like the horrible ones we got today. App support would be lacking, it would still be way behind in terms of hardware, it would be behind in terms of OS features and so on. All the drawbacks of having a Windows phone today.

But not only that, it would be a terrible desktop computer as well. The performance would be horrible compared to a real computer like a desktop or laptop (because of much lower performing hardware in addition to the software emulation layer). There is no way they will fit the equivalence of an i5 inside the phone, or a decent amount of RAM with a good SSD.

 

So you get a device that does not satisfy anyone.

2-in-1 or 3-in-1 devices are always gonna be compromised in some way. I used to own a Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro, and it was a pretty bad laptop and an even worse tablet. The Switch seems to be suffering the same problem, being underpowered for a home console and a pretty uncomfortable-to-hold handheld. In effect, they're basically a jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none.

[Trixanity]

16 minutes ago, Daring said:

2-in-1 or 3-in-1 devices are always gonna be compromised in some way. I used to own a Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro, and it was a pretty bad laptop and an even worse tablet. The Switch seems to be suffering the same problem, being underpowered for a home console and a pretty uncomfortable-to-hold handheld. In effect, they're basically a jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none.

Yeah, I agree.

 

The major problem with these convertible/hybrid form factors is that they don't really solve any problems. If you have a phone that can be docked in a laptop shell why wouldn't you just bring an actual laptop with more horsepower? If you have a phone that can be docked to a display/mouse/keyboard why wouldn't you just setup a desktop with more horsepower? There really isn't a cost saving involved either. You're still paying for all the accessories and will end up paying the same as having separate devices pretty much. File syncing mostly isn't an issue in this day and age while being easily overcome with a decent software solution.

 

I mean the idea sounds cool but when you really think about it you realize it's a solution in search of a problem.

A dockable portable compute device that does voice calls (if I call it a smartphone I'm apparently to be crucified) does not solve a problem. Anything it can dock to would be an existing form factor and would merely be a crippled compute device with a dongle-like experience. Yeah, I'm going there. It's essentially like Apple's recent 'Pro' products in the sense that you need to buy tons of accessories to get the same functionality as other products in its category (by that I mean intended use).

 

The Surface Pro works (and generally I'd say just barely in the sense that it's dangerously close to compromising the experience by trying to merge several things into one) as it packs laptop performance and pairs it with decent input devices that generally isn't found anywhere else meaning you don't have to invest in multiple products and/or accessories to gain the same functionality/workflow.

 

Microsoft would have to revolutionize the industry somehow and in a way that isn't readily apparent right now for this to have any merit. This thread hasn't really enlightened us as to what this unicorn is. If it's anything like "a dockable portable compute device that does voice calls", then it's DoA or relegated to a very tiny niche among businesses (it would have to be very (and I mean very) specific use cases because any company phone would generally be Android or iPhone).

We should hope that it's something else that actually has any kind of impact because the aforementioned won't.

 

PS. that graph that's been linked multiple times has got to be the worst graph I've ever seen. I hope it's out of context because right now none of the points on the graph are explained and it's mostly just well... poorly designed. So it's essentially useless as is. 

[captain_to_fire]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Translation: "Please guys, don't give up hope on this terrible platform. It will be awesome in the future I promise! Don't abandon this sinking ship pleeeease!".

This reminds me: 

But replace "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" with "Hello, I'm an iPhone, and I'm an Android, and I'm a Windows Phone and it's gonna be great this time. Trust me." 

[vorticalbox]

8 hours ago, Daring said:

Everybody I've seen indicates that while the Windows Phone version says "One tap to sign in to Microsoft", it still requires you to enter your password. Sorry, but Microsoft does not care about you if you use Windows Phone.

ill test to and report back, never actually used that app as it just easier to type in a password than unlock my phone and click a button lol.

 

Microsoft probably doesn't care doesn't mean my phone is bad it does everything I need it to do. 

[WindirBear]

I really wish Microsoft would do a fucking deal with Google.

Googles software is far more easier and Superior to Microsoft.

 

Google has a one time sign in feature, where everything is integrated, Hangouts, email, YouTube, play store, chrome, drive, and so on.

 

Microsoft account is the worst, and why their window PC/phone/table integration if failing. Log into Skype, log into one drive, log into MS store. That and because Microsoft doesn't have a large phone market, and enough developers.

 

I really wish I can get text messages on my phone, and view it on my computer, same with calls, video chats and more!

 

A lot could be done! Microsoft is doing this all wrong.

[GoodBytes]

38 minutes ago, WindirBear said:

I really wish Microsoft would do a fucking deal with Google.

Googles software is far more easier and Superior to Microsoft.

 

Google has a one time sign in feature, where everything is integrated, Hangouts, email, YouTube, play store, chrome, drive, and so on.

 

Microsoft account is the worst, and why their window PC/phone/table integration if failing. Log into Skype, log into one drive, log into MS store. That and because Microsoft doesn't have a large phone market, and enough developers.

Well this is because people have different accounts for everything, so the choice is there. But by default, Windows will login to all your servers with the same account. When you login to Windows 10 with your Microsoft account, Groove Music, Store, OneDrive, Skype, etc. all login to the same account.

 

You think Microsoft didn't try? Google is not interested in Microsoft. If they were, then Google would not purposefully block its service from Windows phone devices, like they did, and refuse to make apps for it, even at the time where Microsoft Windows phone had a good enough market share for something. Google knows that it has its users locked in, and that is how they lock you in to Android. That is how it all works. This is a huge block for users on iPhone users not switching to Android, and the reverse. Microsoft tried to make its own app for Google. While Google allows third party apps, they did everything they can to block specifically Microsoft own apps from working.

 

Quote

I really wish I can get text messages on my phone, and view it on my computer, same with calls, video chats and more!

Get a Windows 10 Mobile phone then. It does all that. Even any notifications on my phone appears on my PC. I never need to look at my phone.

Or wait for further support on Android. Right now, you can send replies through Cortana on your PC, and I think you can find your phone from your PC, and ring it. Plug your phone to your PC, and start the Phone Companion app in Windows 10 to get started.

 

I mean if we look at things:

• Microsoft had the hardware, with USB Type-C fast charging, actual USB 3.0, really good camera that is still very competitive today against the best of the best smartphone cameras
• Microsoft has the software
• Windows 10 Mobile has file explorer for file browsing, download, transfer, etc.
• OS experience works like Windows 10. You know how to use Windows 10? You know how to use Windows 10 Mobile.
• Microsoft built a really good, fully integrated ecosystem
• Ecosystem that fully integrated with the users PCs, where notifications, SMS/MMS, Cortana, Mail, Calendar, Skype, Store purchases, Edge, are fully integrated.
• The OS has many of the "core apps" for many people: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Watsup, Spotify, Pandora, Office (of course), and more. Also includes a really good Map software.
• Continuum
• iPhone like experience in speed and response on the lowest end <150$ phones
• Desktop web browser in the phone. Websites appears as they do on the desktop, with file upload support and everything.

Yet.. no one cared...

See how powerful locking users to an ecosystem is?

Now, I am not saying that Microsoft did perfect execution of everything, but still. The phone wasn't even being considered by people.

 

 

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

You think Microsoft didn't try? Google is not interested in Microsoft. If they were, then Google would not purposefully block its service from Windows phone devices, like they did, and refuse to make apps for it, even at the time where Microsoft Windows phone had a good enough market share for something. Google knows that it has its users locked in, and that is how they lock you in to Android. That is how it all works. This is a huge block for users on iPhone users not switching to Android, and the reverse. Microsoft tried to make its own app for Google. While Google allows third party apps, they did everything they can to block specifically Microsoft own apps from working.

What you and other people seem to always forget when talking about how Google is blocking Microsoft from developing apps for Windows Mobile, is that Google actually let them do it first. Microsoft then violated the terms of service by doing things such as blocking ads in their YouTube app, and allowing downloads and other such features.

Google did not block them from apps that used Google services before Microsoft violated the rules.

 

Now, is Google holding a grudge and is holding it a bit too long? Maybe, but the fact of the matter is that when Microsoft got the chance they violated the rules and got punished.

You might say that they should be given a second chance, but that's up to Google to decide (and they have said no so far).

 

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Microsoft had the hardware, with USB Type-C fast charging, actual USB 3.0, really good camera that is still very competitive today against the best of the best smartphone cameras

Microsoft has always been behind in hardware. I don't think they have even had generation parity with iOS or Android devices across the board. It's always old generation screens, SoCs or other components.

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

• Microsoft has the software
• Windows 10 Mobile has file explorer for file browsing, download, transfer, etc.

But they don't... The software for Windows 10 mobile is horrible. Not just the lack of apps but also the poor state of things like Continuum. UWP is a clusterfuck that didn't solve the "unification" of all their platforms, and it's about as deserted as Chernobyl.

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

OS experience works like Windows 10. You know how to use Windows 10? You know how to use Windows 10 Mobile.

This is bullshit. My mom knows how to use Android and Windows 10, but I bet that if I gave her a Windows phone she would be very confused.

If your Windows 10 computer has a touch screen and runs the start menu in full screen mode then maybe they are somewhat similar. But for the average Joe that barely uses the start menu at all (and when they do it's the small version in the bottom corner) and uses a mouse and keyboard, Windows 10 Mobile is a very different experience.

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

• Microsoft built a really good, fully integrated ecosystem
• Ecosystem that fully integrated with the users PCs, where notifications, SMS/MMS, Cortana, Mail, Calendar, Skype, Store purchases, Edge, are fully integrated.

lol

Yeah it's great... Horrible update support for phones. You need a PhD in advanced mathematics to understand which programs can be used on what device (or a lot of time on your hands). Their website is about as easy to navigate as a Star Destroyer through an astroid field. If you're not using the exact things Microsoft wants then everything falls apart (how well does Windows Mobile integrate with Windows 7?) The "ecosystem" is terrible.

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The OS has many of the "core apps" for many people: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Watsup, Spotify, Pandora, Office (of course), and more. Also includes a really good Map software.

And it is missing just as many "core apps". It doesn't matter if you got 50% or even 90% of all the "core apps". You need 100%, plus all the outlier apps as well, plus even more.

You could be saying the same thing about GNU/Linux. Most people only use a handful of programs on their computers, and those are often available on GNU/Linux. Things like their web browser. But as soon as you lack even a single of the core programs, or if you consistently lack the "flavor of the month" apps then nobody cares. People don't want a phone that can do 80% of what they want it to do, if the alternative can do 100%.

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Continuum

Continuum is horrible.

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

iPhone like experience in speed and response on the lowest end <150$ phones

This is bullshit. Maybe if you only scroll up and down in a menu, but not for other things.

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Desktop web browser in the phone. Websites appears as they do on the desktop, with file upload support and everything.

Which is funny, considering Edge has the worst support for web standards of all modern browsers.

In fact, I would not be surprised if desktop Edge is actually worse than Chrome for Android when it comes to standards support.

By the way, web browsers on Android has a "request desktop site" button as well, which will make it serve the desktop version of websites. And yes, file upload support works too.

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Yet.. no one cared...

Because for every "benefit" you listed there are a billion drawbacks. Some of the "benefits" you listed aren't even benefits. It's just "it's almost good!".

 

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Now, I am not saying that Microsoft did perfect execution of everything, but still. The phone wasn't even being considered by people.

They were being considered, and then disregarded because they had a ton of issues and drawbacks. I've probably mentioned this to you before, but my mom was briefly considering a Windows Phone 7 when she was about to buy her first smartphone. The store person was pestering her about it and to every question she asked the answer was "no" so she just went "then why are you even suggesting this to me? The Samsung phone is clearly better".

 

Now that the train has not only left the station, but done circles around the world, Microsoft does not just need feature parity (which they are a lightyear away from), they need extra things too. Even if Microsoft put out a ton of fantastic smartphones which matched everything iOS and Android offered, people would still not change. Why? Because in order for people to go through the inconvenience of jumping ship (finding replacement programs, learning how to navigate, getting used to the new hardware, and so on) you need to do more than the competitors. If you only match what others are offering then it's just a side grade for people.

[GoodBytes]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

What you and other people seem to always forget when talking about how Google is blocking Microsoft from developing apps for Windows Mobile, is that Google actually let them do it first. Microsoft then violated the terms of service by doing things such as blocking ads in their YouTube app, and allowing downloads and other such features. Google did not block them from apps that used Google services before Microsoft violated the rules.

Google refused to make an app for Windows Phone. While at the time the market share was enougth for Facebook and others to make their app. Microsoft opted to make its own app, which got blocked. Microsoft got around this by pulling the data directly from the site, and as a result can't play ads, as it pulls the video files directly. Google blocked them. Google said for Microsoft to do an HTML5 app, at the time HTML5 wasn't even close to be standard, and no apps, including Google very own one, used HTML5 (no web browser were supporting HTML5 either, just for reference.. like barely). Google refused, and Microsoft made another app, a web wrapper. Guess what? Google blocked it. Google made it very difficult for Microsoft to provide a similar experience app experience. I would like to remind you also, that they are many third party app, many of which block ads on purpose, and Google doesn't care.

 

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Now, is Google holding a grudge and is holding it a bit too long? Maybe, but the fact of the matter is that when Microsoft got the chance they violated the rules and got punished. You might say that they should be given a second chance, but that's up to Google to decide (and they have said no so far).

Google goals is to provide the best experience on its platform, and anyone who attempt to surpass them, Google will do all it can to prevent it. An example: Samsung and Google are at war. Instead of working together, they are direct competitors. Why do you think Samsung has its own app store, it's own voice assistance, own custom Android, and so on? Samsung is so close to make its own phone OS. In fact, Samsung is working on its own OS (Tizen).

 

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Microsoft has always been behind in hardware. I don't think they have even had generation parity with iOS or Android devices across the board. It's always old generation screens, SoCs or other components.

That is a lie. You don't even need to turn your head. The Lumia 950 / 950 XL used the latest tech available at the time, and it was the phone on the market who figure out how to solve the 810 heat issue, by simply putting a simple heatpipe. Not rocket science. iOS device STILL uses 6-bit IPS displays panels, while Microsoft was the first to market with OLED screen. In fact they used this tech since the Zune HD. Each high-end phone featured a camera that made other smartphone manufacture only dream of getting, being 1 or 2 generation in advance over the rest of the industry, every single time. We are 1 year and half, and the Lumia 950 / 950 XL camera is about on par (more or less, depending on the conditions) with Samsung fanciest and newest phone, the S8, which uses the Note 7 camera as it has nothing better yet.

 

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But they don't... The software for Windows 10 mobile is horrible. Not just the lack of apps but also the poor state of things like Continuum. UWP is a clusterfuck that didn't solve the "unification" of all their platforms, and it's about as deserted as Chernobyl.

When you don't know something.. not even a hint.. please don't comment.

 

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This is bullshit. My mom knows how to use Android and Windows 10, but I bet that if I gave her a Windows phone she would be very confused.

Insults... I see. Someone is angry.

I highly doubt it. You know how my mother hangs up on her Android phone (well, my old Android phone?), Press and hold the power button and shutdown. When you call her, you need to call her 2 or 3 times in a row, as she doesn't get the swipe gesture needed. Yet, she has already picked up my phone, while I was driving, and managed to not only do a call, but hand up properly. That says A LOT. She even asked me why her phone is so complicated compared to mine. When I'll switch back to Android phone, that Windows phone will go to my mother, that is for sure... in fact she asked for it, several times.

 

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If your Windows 10 computer has a touch screen and runs the start menu in full screen mode then maybe they are somewhat similar. But for the average Joe that barely uses the start menu at all (and when they do it's the small version in the bottom corner) and uses a mouse and keyboard, Windows 10 Mobile is a very different experience.

What the heck are you talking about? Take you stupid anti-Microsoft, pro-Google glasses off. I want to say you are scratching the bucket, but I think there is no bucket left. Are you trying to troll me? Like are you saying that people are that dumb? What do they do when they switch cars? I guess they need to go back to driving school, with your logic.

 

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Yeah it's great... Horrible update support for phones. You need a PhD in advanced mathematics to understand which programs can be used on what device (or a lot of time on your hands). Their website is about as easy to navigate as a Star Destroyer through an astroid field. If you're not using the exact things Microsoft wants then everything falls apart (how well does Windows Mobile integrate with Windows 7?) The "ecosystem" is terrible.

What world you live in, I don't know. All UWP apps runs on all phones. Sounds like you are looking at screenshots and making stuff up.

 

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And it is missing just as many "core apps". It doesn't matter if you got 50% or even 90% of all the "core apps". You need 100%, plus all the outlier apps as well, plus even more.

It doesn't have your favorite app: Snapchat. You are angry. We get it. They are hundred of million of people that uses: Whatsup, Facebook, Twitter, Viber, Spotify or Pandora, and that is all. Windows 10 Mobile has all these apps.

 

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You could be saying the same thing about GNU/Linux. Most people only use a handful of programs on their computers, and those are often available on GNU/Linux.

I am saying that... I don't recall ever saying that people can't switch to Linux based OS due to app limitation. I use Linux at work .

 

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Things like their web browser. But as soon as you lack even a single of the core programs, or if you consistently lack the "flavor of the month" apps then nobody cares. People don't want a phone that can do 80% of what they want it to do, if the alternative can do 100%.

That is why Microsoft clearly changes its strategy. If you watch the video I posted, you can clearly see that there is no way for anyone, ANYONE, from entering the field. Even if you have Android emulation apps going on, do you know how many apps are encrypted under Android, blocking emulation, unless you run the entire OS? Do you know how many apps are tied to Google services, which can't be translated to another service?

 

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Continuum is horrible.

Best experience at the time. Every reviewers agreed. So far, Samsung is the only contender, and we will see how it fairs, which I hope is better, especially that got help from Microsoft.

 

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This is bullshit. Maybe if you only scroll up and down in a menu, but not for other things.

It only struggles when you multi-task a lot, due to the limited memory, and if you game where you limited by the CPU/GPU performance of the device. But the general responsiveness and speed of the OS crushes Android best offering with such low-end phones. Just recently Android FINALLY got something acceptable, where you have smooth scrolling.. yay! A start! Still wondering if it is the OS that got better, or the low end chips.

 

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Which is funny, considering Edge has the worst support for web standards of all modern browsers.

Yea, when Windows 10 was released. But you don't use it, you look at screen shots, so you don't know.

 

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In fact, I would not be surprised if desktop Edge is actually worse than Chrome for Android when it comes to standards support.

More ignorant anti-Microsoft claims.

 

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By the way, web browsers on Android has a "request desktop site" button as well, which will make it serve the desktop version of websites. And yes, file upload support works too.

Yay! You need to do this every.. single.. time...And many web sites are broken! What an experience!

 

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Because for every "benefit" you listed there are a billion drawbacks. Some of the "benefits" you listed aren't even benefits. It's just "it's almost good!".

A billion? Go ahead... I am listening!

 

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They were being considered, and then disregarded because they had a ton of issues and drawbacks. I've probably mentioned this to you before, but my mom was briefly considering a Windows Phone 7 when she was about to buy her first smartphone. The store person was pestering her about it and to every question she asked the answer was "no" so she just went "then why are you even suggesting this to me? The Samsung phone is clearly better".

It was proven that the sales rep were pushed to sale select phone that brings the most money to the store. They also don't know anything related to Windows Phone.

But aside from this, the discussion is on Windows 10 Mobile. Not Windows Phone 7 that you can't change ring tones, because the OS was in development half way using the kernel of Windows 7, and then some managerial change happened, and the person, being so proud of his Windows CE creation of yesteryear, made it change direction and restart all from scratch to use it. Costing a lot to Microsoft, and thank god he was fired.

 

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Now that the train has not only left the station, but done circles around the world, Microsoft does not just need feature parity (which they are a lightyear away from), they need extra things too. Even if Microsoft put out a ton of fantastic smartphones which matched everything iOS and Android offered, people would still not change. Why? Because in order for people to go through the inconvenience of jumping ship (finding replacement programs, learning how to navigate, getting used to the new hardware, and so on) you need to do more than the competitors. If you only match what others are offering then it's just a side grade for people.

It is strange how you keep saying that the different GUI of Windows is the big hurtle, yet Android smartphone market is blasted with custom GUI from all manufactures, which changes every few years drastically, and Android itself as well, and no one has any problem adapting.

 

And why are you still here? You just come to every Microsoft related topic, and just spread mostly false information, to push your anti-Microsoft agenda.

Enough wasting our time, and trying to derail threads over and over again.

 

Now, lets return to a more interesting and constructive topic which is what it started with.

[JAKEBAB]

18 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

That is a lie. You don't even need to turn your head. The Lumia 950 / 950 XL used the latest tech available at the time, and it was the phone on the market who figure out how to solve the 810 heat issue, by simply putting a simple heatpipe. Not rocket science.

Sony Experia Z5 had a heatpipe for the 810 which came out before the 950. Not to say the 950 wasn't already built with a heatpipe though.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, JAKEBAB said:

Sony Experia Z5 had a heatpipe for the 810 which came out before the 950. Not to say the 950 wasn't already built with a heatpipe though.

Ah! Nice! Ok so 2 phones manufactured figured it out amongst the many of them who used that chip.

[LAwLz]

8 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Google refused to make an app for Windows Phone. While at the time the market share was enougth for Facebook and others to make their app. Microsoft opted to make its own app, which got blocked. Microsoft got around this by pulling the data directly from the site, and as a result can't play ads, as it pulls the video files directly. Google blocked them. Google said for Microsoft to do an HTML5 app, at the time HTML5 wasn't even close to be standard, and no apps, including Google very own one, used HTML5 (no web browser were supporting HTML5 either, just for reference.. like barely). Google refused, and Microsoft made another app, a web wrapper. Guess what? Google blocked it. Google made it very difficult for Microsoft to provide a similar experience app experience. I would like to remind you also, that they are many third party app, many of which block ads on purpose, and Google doesn't care.

Yeah, their massive ~2% marketshare...

 

Here is what happened.

 

1) Microsoft starts smearing campaigns against Google with things such as Scroogled, and Gmail man (funny how times has changed, isn't it?).

2) Google does not have any third party APIs which accesses all data on YouTube. So platforms need either first party support, or workarounds to make YouTube apps. Microsoft complained about this and filed a complaint to the European Commission that it, along with Google's search dominance, was violating European competition law.

3) Microsoft makes an app that is just a web-wrapper since that's the best they could do at the time. It works. It can play videos and such, but it lacks a few features like playlist support.

4) Everything is fine for some time.

5) Microsoft updates their app so that it can now download videos, does not show ads, can play videos in the background and a few other things.

6) Microsoft sends out a cease and desist, demanding that the app is pulled.

7) Google demands that Microsoft makes a HTML app again.

8) Microsoft is not pleased with the app and blocks it again. And o the story goes on...

 

Personally I think both companies are in the wrong here. Microsoft was clearly throwing rocks at Google and then got butthurt when Google fired back. Google continuing to kick Windows phone when it was already down was a bit extreme though. I mean, the only reason why they specifically said they wanted Microsoft to develop a HTML5 app for Youtube was because they knew Windows did not support the web standards necessary for it to work to any decent degree.

 

 

9 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Google goals is to provide the best experience on its platform, and anyone who attempt to surpass them, Google will do all it can to prevent it. An example: Samsung and Google are at war. Instead of working together, they are direct competitors. Why do you think Samsung has its own app store, it's own voice assistance, own custom Android, and so on? Samsung is so close to make its own phone OS. In fact, Samsung is working on its own OS (Tizen).

I am not sure I agree with your view. I agree that they want to provide the best experience on its platform, but I do not think they do everything they can to prevent other platforms from becoming better.

You have one example with Microsoft, but that's about it. Sure they are not providing first party support for Tizen either, but there is a difference about not putting in time/effort/money into supporting something, and spending time/effort/money in actively blocking something.

The first one is acceptable and understandable. The latter is not.

 

9 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

That is a lie. You don't even need to turn your head. The Lumia 950 / 950 XL used the latest tech available at the time, and it was the phone on the market who figure out how to solve the 810 heat issue, by simply putting a simple heatpipe. Not rocket science. iOS device STILL uses 6-bit IPS displays panels, while Microsoft was the first to market with OLED screen. In fact they used this tech since the Zune HD. Each high-end phone featured a camera that made other smartphone manufacture only dream of getting, being 1 or 2 generation in advance over the rest of the industry, every single time. We are 1 year and half, and the Lumia 950 / 950 XL camera is about on par (more or less, depending on the conditions) with Samsung fanciest and newest phone, the S8, which uses the Note 7 camera as it has nothing better yet.

The 950 was not using the latest available tech. For example the OLED screen was one or two generations behind what Samsung used in the Galaxy S6 (you could see this especially in terms of brightness). No fingerprint scanner. It did not fix the heat and power issues of the 810 (just search for Lumia 950 heat and you will find a ton of posts about it). It was already released late. Most phones, like the Galaxy S series, gets announced in Q1. The Lumia 950 was announced Q3 or Q4 if I recall correctly. So even when it was launched it was between two generations.

 

By the way, the Galaxy S 7 blows it out of the water when it comes to low light photos. Sure it is on par or maybe even better in good lighting thanks to the higher megapixel count, but that's about it. You can do a comparison for yourself if you want in gsmarena's excellent photo comparison tool.

To say that these two photos are on-par is very disingenuous. By the way, these two are ~6 months between each other. Call that one generation if you want, but the fact of the matter is that 6 months later Samsung put out a camera that kicked the 950's ass. (And if you think that comparing the Lumia 950 to the Galaxy S 7 is unfair, then please bear in mind that the 950 was released between the S6 and S7. So it's just as "unfair" as comparing the 950 to the S6).

 

(In before "it's unfair that the ISO is higher on the Lumia! That's because the Lumia's camera's pixels are smaller, so it needs higher gain and/or slower shutter speed to collect the same amount of light).

 

And yes I will admit that the Lumia had a better camera than the S6. I strongly disagree that it was several generations ahead though, or the idea that it is still on-par with new cameras. If you ask me it got its ass kicked about 6 months after release.

 

 

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

When you don't know something.. not even a hint.. please don't comment.

I wish you followed your own advice sometimes

 

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Insults... I see. Someone is angry.

I highly doubt it. You know how my mother hangs up on her Android phone (well, my old Android phone?), Press and hold the power button and shutdown. When you call her, you need to call her 2 or 3 times in a row, as she doesn't get the swipe gesture needed. Yet, she has already picked up my phone, while I was driving, and managed to not only do a call, but hand up properly. That says A LOT. She even asked me why her phone is so complicated compared to mine. When I'll switch back to Android phone, that Windows phone will go to my mother, that is for sure... in fact she asked for it, several times.

So on her Android phone she held the power button until the phone powered off, but on your WP she pressed the end call button? That's strange considering chances are you end calls exactly the same way on both your Windows phone and her Android phone.

Anyway, anecdotal evidence back and forth, you seriously can't compare navigating a Windows 10 desktop/laptop with using it on a phone. The menus are different, the programs are different, everything is very different.

Surely even you must realize this.

Remember how confused people got from Windows 8? Windows mobile is more similar to Windows 8 than it is Windows 10 (in terms of GUI and navigation), since it's all tiles, swipe gestures and Metro-ish apps.

 

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

What the heck are you talking about? Take you stupid anti-Microsoft, pro-Google glasses off. I want to say you are scratching the bucket, but I think there is no bucket left. Are you trying to troll me? Like are you saying that people are that dumb? What do they do when they switch cars? I guess they need to go back to driving school, with your logic.

Yes, people are that dumb. People often struggle to change between different Android brands too. Wanna know what one of the most common types of calls a phone carrier support line gets? People that have accidentally turned off WiFi and/or cellular data on their phones and can't figure out how to turn it back on, despite it being the same on 99% of all Android smartphones, and it being at the top of the settings app in iOS (I have no idea where it is in Windows mobile, but I remember it being quite far more complicated than on iOS and Android).

 

You are overestimating people.

 

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

What world you live in, I don't know. All UWP apps runs on all phones. Sounds like you are looking at screenshots and making stuff up.

No they don't. Not even all of Microsoft's own first party UWP apps are available for phones (such as Minecraft Pocket Edition).

In before "no true Scotsman".

 

I have run into several examples in the past, but I don't know them on top of my head.

 

 

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It doesn't have your favorite app: Snapchat. You are angry. We get it. They are hundred of million of people that uses: Whatsup, Facebook, Twitter, Viber, Spotify or Pandora, and that is all. Windows 10 Mobile has all these apps.

Did you even read what I wrote?

I don't use Snapchat. Nor do I use facebook, or viber, or spotify or Pandora. But that does not matter. Most people will use more than those apps.

According to statistics from Google, the average android user has installed 26 apps on their phone. Even if we assume that all the ones you listed are in that 26 apps, that's still 20 apps left for the average user. Does Windows Mobile have all of those 20 apps? Will Windows Mobile have all the 26 ones in the next couple of months when some of those 26 apps has been changed out for other flavor of the month apps?

 

You need more than the core apps to stay relevant in the smartphone business. You need to be on top of or ahead of the curve when it comes to apps that appear, stay relevant for a few months and then die. Just look at Pokemon Go for example. It did not live for many months so you might say "it did not matter than it wasn't on Windows Mobile", but the thing is that there will always be apps people want today, but not in the next couple of months. If you never have any of the trendy apps then you will always be behind.

 

You can point at the core apps all you want (some of which are fairly new to Windows Mobile, like Facebook) but it's not enough. The platform needs to do 100% of what people want at any given moment. It's not enough with doing 70 or 80% of what people want.

 

 

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

That is why Microsoft clearly changes its strategy. If you watch the video I posted, you can clearly see that there is no way for anyone, ANYONE, from entering the field. Even if you have Android emulation apps going on, do you know how many apps are encrypted under Android, blocking emulation, unless you run the entire OS? Do you know how many apps are tied to Google services, which can't be translated to another service?

I agree. Microsoft had their chance of getting on the train, but they fucked up and now it's too late.

That's why I think they should just kill Windows 10 Mobile and instead put more resources into fixing all the issues with Windows 10. Stop trying to make Mobile piggyback on their desktop dominance.

 

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Best experience at the time. Every reviewers agreed. So far, Samsung is the only contender, and we will see how it fairs, which I hope is better, especially that got help from Microsoft.

It was the only experience... Of course it will be the best if there are no competitors.

 

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It only struggles when you multi-task a lot, due to the limited memory, and if you game where you limited by the CPU/GPU performance of the device. But the general responsiveness and speed of the OS crushes Android best offering with such low-end phones. Just recently Android FINALLY got something acceptable, where you have smooth scrolling.. yay! A start! Still wondering if it is the OS that got better, or the low end chips.

Yeah, it "only "struggles when you multi-task, or run applications that requires CPU/GPU horsepower. You should probably add that it struggles when it becomes IOPS bound as well.

All of a sudden it struggles at everything except, like I said, when you scroll in a list. Yeah it performs great when you scroll up and down in menus! Because that's what really matters, right? Not performance in applications or anything like that. List scrolling, fuck yeah!

 

 

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Yea, when Windows 10 was released. But you don't use it, you look at screen shots, so you don't know.

 

More ignorant anti-Microsoft claims.

HTML5Test

Edge 15 (desktop) - 473

Chrome 52 (Android, not even the latest) - 486

 

CanIUse

Hard to say which one has best standards support, but it's pretty clear that Edge supports more desktop oriented features (like drag and drop, cursor zooming in CSS3 and keyboard events) while Android Chrome is more confused on mobile (like web bluetooth, battery status and touch events).

 

And no, I don't have to use something to know that it's bad. Why go and do these tests myself when there are tools to do it for me?

I haven't used cocaine either, but I can still read about it and understand why it is bad for you. So the whole "you haven't used it so therefore you don't know anything about it!" argument doesn't hold water.

 

 

11 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Yay! You need to do this every.. single.. time...And many web sites are broken! What an experience!

Yes you need to do it for every tab, but how often do you access the desktop version of a website? Not sure about you, but I use a Chromium based mobile browser and I very rarely need the "request desktop site", and I have even more rarely ran into issues with compatibility issues.

Got any examples of websites that requires you to use the desktop site because the mobile one doesn't work? Even better, got an example where you need to request the desktop site, and it doesn't work in mobile Chrome but it does in IE?
I am interested in how that site is written.

 

 

11 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

A billion? Go ahead... I am listening!

A billion was slight hyperbole, but the fact of the matter is that Windows Mobile is way behind in pretty much every single regard compared to iOS and Android. If I get some time over and get my hands on a Windows 10 Mobile device, I might do a review but don't expect one anytime soon.

But if you want some more anecdotal evidence of it having a ton of drawbacks, even our Microsoft sales people, and Microsoft product related consultants have abandoned Windows Mobile and gone over to Android or iOS. We have 1 person left that uses it (soe Lumia, possibly a non-XL 950), but that's because it's still too early for him to request a new phone.

 

11 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It is strange how you keep saying that the different GUI of Windows is the big hurtle, yet Android smartphone market is blasted with custom GUI from all manufactures, which changes every few years drastically, and Android itself as well, and no one has any problem adapting.

But people do have problems adopting. Again, have you ever talked to someone outside of the "geek" community? Like worked in customer service? People struggle a ton when they change phone. It's hard for people to change from Android to iOS and vice versa too. Baby Duck syndrome is a very real phenomenon.

 

11 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

And why are you still here? You just come to every Microsoft related topic, and just spread mostly false information, to push your anti-Microsoft agenda.

Enough wasting our time, and trying to derail threads over and over again.

False information? Funny how you say I am the one doing that, yet I am the only one who is posting links to back up my claims...

And no I don't have some anti-Microsoft agenda. I throwing shit at companies or people that do bad things or get undeserved praise.

When Microsoft does something good I will praise them (and have). It's just that it's very rare that they do. Then, when we have some users on this forum which will praise them for everything it becomes a very big contrast.

You probably just notice my anti-Microsoft posts more because we get a lot of topics about Microsoft, and you're usually one of the people defending them like if your life depended on it.

 

11 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Now, lets return to a more interesting and constructive topic which is what it started with.

I don't see how the original discussion was interesting or constructive.

It seemed like some marketing from a random blog post that was built on false pretenses (which I have posted likes to back up) and full of speculation and dumb things like "it's not a smartphone! It's a cellular PC!".

It could have been summed up as "some random guy thinks the Surface Phone will run x86 programs".

[LAwLz]

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Ah! Nice! Ok so 2 phones manufactured figured it out amongst the many of them who used that chip.

Other manufacturers, such as HTC, used the chassis as a heatsink. That's why it looked like this (the entire phone got hot) on thermal imaging cameras.

 

Samsung also saw that it was too hot and opted for another chip instead (their own Exynos SoC). Same with LG (that went with the 808).

Xiaomi added a fairly big heatsink in the Mi Note Pro too.

 

So it was not Microsoft, nor was it just Microsoft and Sony.

Everyone understood the heat issues and used different ways of solving or working around it.

 

Heatpipes were used by at least 2 (if you do some digging you can probably find one or two more) manufacturers, but that's not to say it was the best solution.

So once again I think you are giving too much credit to Microsoft while downplaying everyone else. I am not even sure if there has been some study to analyze the effects of the different solutions to determine which one was the best. Microsoft's heatpipes might have helped a lot, or they might have been the worst solution. It's hard to say without any good tests.

[Guest]

On 22/04/2017 at 0:09 AM, GoodBytes said:

So, it will be aimed at enterprises, where the push that "You don't need Snapchat, etc. in the work environment" is a valid and accepted argument, and such device replaced employees desktops. All they need is a dock station at the office, and a cheap laptop dock for on the go work, where if it gets stolen, no data is loss, as everything is on the phone, in the employee pocket (and the phone has a wide range of security features in the case it gets stolen).

How exactly is this going to work? There are very few cases where this product (and the HP equivalent) will replace a desktop for a user. It simply isn't powerful enough for most CRM's, WMS's and ERP's. Getting the device would also not be advisable if you were using a terminal environment to combat its low spec.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Windspeed36 said:

How exactly is this going to work? There are very few cases where this product (and the HP equivalent) will replace a desktop for a user. It simply isn't powerful enough for most CRM's, WMS's and ERP's. Getting the device would also not be advisable if you were using a terminal environment to combat its low spec.

On top of that, it would not save any space either if you're going to have different types of docks all over the place.

Need a laptop? Then you need the tablet dock which takes up just as much space as a regular laptop.

Need a thin client for a terminal environment? Then you need some kind of dock that takes up about as much space as a thin client.

It's like the dongle-gate for the Macbook Pro, but somehow even worse.

 

But the biggest drawback I see is that Windows 10 Mobile is just not good for phones (or anything else for that matter). So like I said before, even if the idea worked well (which it currently does not with Continuum) you would still end up with a bad phone and mediocre experience everywhere else. It's just not satisfying for anyone.

[Nowak]

13 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

How exactly is this going to work? There are very few cases where this product (and the HP equivalent) will replace a desktop for a user. It simply isn't powerful enough for most CRM's, WMS's and ERP's. Getting the device would also not be advisable if you were using a terminal environment to combat its low spec.

Are you expecting an answer beyond "It's better"? Because they don't seem to be willing to explain how it's better, considering all this:

 

12 hours ago, LAwLz said:

On top of that, it would not save any space either if you're going to have different types of docks all over the place.

Need a laptop? Then you need the tablet dock which takes up just as much space as a regular laptop.

Need a thin client for a terminal environment? Then you need some kind of dock that takes up about as much space as a thin client.

It's like the dongle-gate for the Macbook Pro, but somehow even worse.

WP users just state that it's "better", but never explain how it's better. Probably because Microsoft said so, therefore it's true.

 

tbh this editorial by michael fisher is still very relevant to this day.

[GoodBytes]

14 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

How exactly is this going to work? There are very few cases where this product (and the HP equivalent) will replace a desktop for a user. It simply isn't powerful enough for most CRM's, WMS's and ERP's. Getting the device would also not be advisable if you were using a terminal environment to combat its low spec.

Well, beside the fact that Microsoft showed off Photoshop running on it, starting with impressive speed, all that on a 820, that says a lot.. for a mobile chip (and MS aims for teh 835 as a starting point). Now, granted, they didn't do anything in a large project... but I don't expect it to play nice (let alone the limited RAM, would be an issue), but it has oomph.

 

(Warning, the video is being presented by PR.. so expect that... and has silly generic 90's music on the back.. maybe you should hit the Mute button)

 

I see it fit my needs, which I expect that situation is not unique at all.

So, I am a software developer. In my latest job, I work under Windows, but mostly SSH'ing on a Linux PC. I use Windows dev tools, but everything is compiled and executed remotes on a Linux powered server. The company lend me a laptop, which is my PC at work (connects to a dock, where I have a full size keyboard, mouse, and a monitor), and I can use it to work from home. If I work from home, I naturally need to connect via VPN to work to access source code, and be able to develop, because, as mentioned, everything is our Linux server. Everyone at the company in the dev, testing, side of things have his setup.. except for 2 people who bought their own Mac, and do a Mac/Linux setup.

 

With this futurist portable phone device, I can run the companies VPN to go the companies network, and run my development software. I don't need RAM, CPU power, or anything really, as everything is remote. With this setup, I just have a dock at home and at work, and I just have a phone like device that fits in my pocket.

 

As for the business sides of things at the company (Administration, HR, finance, etc,), while I am not in their position to really know, I think it is safe to assume that it also fit their needs. It can run full Office just fine, and whatever extra software that they have, including any companies made software solutions.

[PlayStation 2]

I honestly wonder if Microsoft even knows the direction they're going with this.

[GoodBytes]

30 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

I honestly wonder if Microsoft even knows the direction they're going with this.

I think they are trying things.