dark clouds looming in the video cards supply chain - inventory levels are up, sales are down

[That Norwegian Guy]

Price. It's all about price.

That the greed and distribution problems are being punished feels good man.

 

A used 290x for $120 is still the best money you can spend gpu wise.

[unsubscribed]

In Ireland I am having hard time to find a EVGA GTX 1070 FTW. EVGA themselves shut down their European store with no re-opening date in sight (been like this for around 3 months now). Some vendors have few GPUs and are charging an arm and a leg - around €550 for GTX 1070 FTW.

In general pricing in Europe is just ridiculous. If you look on amazon.co.uk reviews people are not happy about it at all and either are postponing or simply jumping the ship to AMD. I can only imagine this viewed from side from someone who is new at the whole PC building business.

 

p.s. I am still waiting for either amazon.co.uk or EVGA Europe store to stock GTX 1070 FTW

[unsubscribed]

6 minutes ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

Price. It's all about price.

That the greed and distribution problems are being punished feels good man.

 

A used 290x for $120 is still the best money you can spend gpu wise.

Where did you see such price for 290x? Are we talking about AMD Radeon R9 290X because I find it hard to believe anyone would sell 290x for $120 that currently retails around $300-400.

[zMeul]

2 minutes ago, edsdrafts said:

EVGA Europe store to stock GTX 1070 FTW

I haven't seen anything on EVGA EU store other than dust

[unsubscribed]

Just now, zMeul said:

I haven't seen anything on EVGA EU store other than dust

I bought a card from them around August. Pity all this fiasco with thermal pads etc. happened. I decided to return it and buy again - this time with all sorted in factory.

 

It seems that the store closed around September. No news on their site of re-opening date though but having Christmas on our heels I am surprised it is still this way.

[That Norwegian Guy]

9 minutes ago, edsdrafts said:

Where did you see such price for 290x? Are we talking about AMD Radeon R9 290X because I find it hard to believe anyone would sell 290x for $120 that currently retails around $300-400.

That's what i paid for mine. Ebayers are trying to get 150 but they don't sell easy. I bought mine on a Norwegian equivalent site.

[unsubscribed]

1 minute ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

That's what i paid for mine. Ebayers are trying to get 150 but they don't sell easy. I bought mine on a Norwegian equivalent site.

I saw one or two from US around that price but then customs would slam it to €200 here at least. I wouldn't call it a trend yet though.

[Dabombinable]

4 minutes ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

That's what i paid for mine. Ebayers are trying to get 150 but they don't sell easy. I bought mine on a Norwegian equivalent site.

This is what I'd have to pay for a second GTX 970. Note the price of broken cards: http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=15&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=gtx 970&LH_PrefLoc=2&_dcat=27386&Memory%20Size=4GB&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

[patrickjp93]

8 hours ago, ManIkWeet said:

Maybe they shouldn't have hiked the price up so much... Smaller chipset larger costs ¬¬

 

Remember that they went from 28nm to 14nm, so they practically doubled the output per-wafer (minus some manufacturing errors).

 

The cards are too expensive, that's all.

... The actual size of the die is what primarilydetermines the output and yield of the wafer, not the node.

[Prysin]

1 hour ago, patrickjp93 said:

... The actual size of the die is what primarilydetermines the output and yield of the wafer, not the node.

i would agree if they was doing 14/16nm PLANAR. But they are using FinFet, a technology which is a FIRST for both AMD and Nvidia. Only Intel has real product-to-market experience when it comes to FinFet/Trigate designs.

 

Naturally, a whole new way of designing and implementing transistors will come with its own challenges both in design and yields of said design. This is only natural.

[Me1z]

How is this dark? All I see is a shining beacon of hope that some new GPUs are going to be more affordable. If Nvidia needs to hold off on putting spinning rims on their solid gold jet-skis because they have to lower their prices, that's fine by me. In this economy, nothing beneficial happens for consumers unless a corporation is forced to listen.

[patrickjp93]

3 minutes ago, Prysin said:

i would agree if they was doing 14/16nm PLANAR. But they are using FinFet, a technology which is a FIRST for both AMD and Nvidia. Only Intel has real product-to-market experience when it comes to FinFet/Trigate designs.

 

Naturally, a whole new way of designing and implementing transistors will come with its own challenges both in design and yields of said design. This is only natural.

So do Samsung and Qualcomm... And actually AMD has had a few 14nm FF products out too.

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, Me1z said:

How is this dark? All I see is a shining beacon of hope that some new GPUs are going to be more affordable. If Nvidia needs to hold off on putting spinning rims on their solid gold jet-skis because they have to lower their prices, that's fine by me. In this economy, nothing beneficial happens for consumers unless a corporation is forced to listen.

let's say nVidia will drop prices, AMD will be forced to drop prices as well

and with the upcoming VEGA, that's rumored to be as fast as GTX1080, AMD will lose $ if they'll try to match nVidia's pricing

 

is the consumer going to end on top? yes and no

has nVidia learned anything from this and won't replicate it next generation? I truly believe they didn't

[Prysin]

2 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

So do Samsung and Qualcomm... And actually AMD has had a few 14nm FF products out too.

Bristol Ridge you mean? Carrizo was 28nm Planar. Fiji was also 28nm Planar. 

The only 14/16nm FinFet product that i know AMD has launched is Polaris. Bristol Ridge launched after polaris.

PS4 Slim/Pro which is 16nm TSCM was launched WAY after polaris.

 

So what product are you referring to? test cases?? I'm sure Nvidia has had plenty of test cases too. But test products and products meant for mass market are two different things. Consumers are much better at discovering the weird bugs then test systems and engineers are. we know this, because QA/QC is being "crowdsources" by more and more companies, and they would only do it if they knew it was easier and more cost efficient to handle it that way.

Mobile processes is not the same as desktop. Both have their own unique challenges. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to Bananas. FinFet is FinFet, regardless of platform, but the impact different configurations have will not be similar, especially when you ramp up voltages and heat to X86 desktop levels.

 

 

[Prysin]

7 minutes ago, zMeul said:

let's say nVidia will drop prices, AMD will be forced to drop prices as well

and with the upcoming VEGA, that's rumored to be as fast as GTX1080, AMD will lose $ if they'll try to match nVidia's pricing

 

is the consumer going to end on top? yes and no

has nVidia learned anything from this and won't replicate it next generation? I truly believe they didn't

AMD doesnt seem to understand the concept of "margins". If their new GPU has 1080 perf, you can expect it to be a bigger die, at a slightly lower then 1080 cost, and sell in lower volumes then GeForce cards, and thus cost more to produce.

[That Norwegian Guy]

28 minutes ago, Prysin said:

AMD doesnt seem to understand the concept of "margins". If their new GPU has 1080 perf, you can expect it to be a bigger die, at a slightly lower then 1080 cost, and sell in lower volumes then GeForce cards, and thus cost more to produce.

Why would it be a bigger die when AMD is on 14nm and Nv on 16?

[sof006]

Prices are too high and its also possibly because people are waiting for AMD to release Vega.

[Prysin]

30 minutes ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

Why would it be a bigger die when AMD is on 14nm and Nv on 16?

because Nvidias CUDA cores are more efficient then AMDs stream processors, Every single time AMD has a stronger GPU then Nvidia, it has more stream processors and is larger.

 

the practical size difference between GLOFO/Samsung 14 and TSMC 16 is irrelevant. The way they measure their transistors you can basically call them the same when all is said.

 

AMD also have a few extra features in their GPUs that Nvidia doesnt. Hardware schedulers take space, Nvidia doesnt have those, thus their DIE size is smaller. AMD also has wider buses, calling for a larger bus interface and IMC. Again, takes space.

[AlTech]

36 minutes ago, Prysin said:

because Nvidias CUDA cores are more efficient then AMDs stream processors, Every single time AMD has a stronger GPU then Nvidia, it has more stream processors and is larger.

 

the practical size difference between GLOFO/Samsung 14 and TSMC 16 is irrelevant. The way they measure their transistors you can basically call them the same when all is said.

 

AMD also have a few extra features in their GPUs that Nvidia doesnt. Hardware schedulers take space, Nvidia doesnt have those, thus their DIE size is smaller. AMD also has wider buses, calling for a larger bus interface and IMC. Again, takes space.

I feel like we need a thread explaining these kind of things and the differences between AMD and Nvidia GPUs.

[AlTech]

1 hour ago, Prysin said:

AMD doesnt seem to understand the concept of "margins". If their new GPU has 1080 perf, you can expect it to be a bigger die, at a slightly lower then 1080 cost, and sell in lower volumes then GeForce cards, and thus cost more to produce.

I think they do (look at the RX 460.......) and well I think they want to beat nvidia on price first and then later take advantage and move up the price.

[patrickjp93]

1 hour ago, Prysin said:

Bristol Ridge you mean? Carrizo was 28nm Planar. Fiji was also 28nm Planar. 

The only 14/16nm FinFet product that i know AMD has launched is Polaris. Bristol Ridge launched after polaris.

PS4 Slim/Pro which is 16nm TSCM was launched WAY after polaris.

 

So what product are you referring to? test cases?? I'm sure Nvidia has had plenty of test cases too. But test products and products meant for mass market are two different things. Consumers are much better at discovering the weird bugs then test systems and engineers are. we know this, because QA/QC is being "crowdsources" by more and more companies, and they would only do it if they knew it was easier and more cost efficient to handle it that way.

Mobile processes is not the same as desktop. Both have their own unique challenges. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to Bananas. FinFet is FinFet, regardless of platform, but the impact different configurations have will not be similar, especially when you ramp up voltages and heat to X86 desktop levels.

 

 

I mean Polaris 10 and 11, both of which have been successful in taking back market share from Nvidia, pretty significantly.

[Notional]

Well, who would have thought NVidia's insane price gouging would result in this? People can't afford 600-1200$ GPU's. I've been saying this for a long while, that NVidia is pushing up prices on their models. Sure it's only possible because AMD doesn't have proper alternatives, but even when they do, people just blindly buy NVidia anyways, even when it's more expensive. I think this is a good thing. Even the 1060 and 480 are too expensive as it is.

[XenosTech]

Where I live no stores keep stock of the 1080 and they barely keep stock of the 1070, you'll see plenty of 1060's and 1050's and rx 480's to rx 460's.

[treeroy]

Very good news that these cards are not selling well.

 

This isn't surprising in the slightest - they are selling these cards at ludicrously high prices despite the products featuring no more iteration than is usual.

 

Hopefully this drives down prices in order for them to sell more.

[TidaLWaveZ]

If you can't find it within yourself to blame nvidia, blame Trump.