Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Master Disaster

Dr Su will present Zen 2 and Navi at Computex 2019 (May 27th)

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Humbug said:

The point is not to say AMD are the good guys and Nvidia are the bad guys. 

 

The point is we want PC gaming to be healthy and sustainable. So far although the overall PC market is in decline, PC gaming is still doing well. But if certain market forces are allowed to proceed unchecked then it will be threatened because there are other ways to game...

 

AMD is also partly responsible for the price escalation because if they had been more  consistently hitting their roadmap/performance/supply targets in the past few years then Nvidia would have had more competition and not been allowed to poison the well.

Yep, competition means better pricing and products for everyone.  As soon as one company gets too far in front they get to charge whatever the market will pay, which given how lopsided that market is (always bigger players who don't care about price) it leave the majority of us looking at inflated prices.

 

Just now, Stefan Payne said:

No they wouldn't.

That's something you tell yourself to justify your purchases while there is nothing to back that up.

 

 

Not every Company is equaly evil, some are more evil - like nVidia - than others...

 

You don't have to be a total dick and toxic to make money...

You can also be a decent company and still make money...

 

 

And as you know, a lower price means more pieces of the product sold vs a higher price wich sells less...

 

Looks like you need a basic lesson in business.   No company is your friend, they do not care about your feels, just the contents of your wallet.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 No company is your friend, they do not care about your feels, just the contents of your wallet.

No but not all companies are equally evil, even if they have a monopoly.

Some are just more evil and have really evil company polcies/way of thinking. nVidia is one of those more evil Companies.

 

Just look at Microsoft for example, was their Windows Phone 8 so evil or was it less evil than the competition??


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

No but not all companies are equally evil, even if they have a monopoly.

Some are just more evil and have really evil company polcies/way of thinking. nVidia is one of those more evil Companies.

 

Just look at Microsoft for example, was their Windows Phone 8 so evil or was it less evil than the competition??

Yep, only some companies are... 🙄


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Looks like you need a basic lesson in business. No company is your friend, they do not care about your feels, just the contents of your wallet.

Having said that....

 

Yes they want to make money, but companies are also made out of people. Those people have thoughts, opinions and values just like us. Even though they want to make money. Let's list down a few companies...

 

EA

Valve

CD Projekt Red

Epic

Apple

 

Now all of the above like to make money for sure. But all of them also have different cultures, policies, structures and people. They all have different ways of dealing with suppliers, partners, customers are they have different things which they are willing and not willing to do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Humbug said:

Having said that....

 

Yes they want to make money, but companies are also made out of people. Those people have thoughts, opinions and values just like us. Even though they want to make money. Let's list down a few companies...

 

EA

Valve

CD Projekt Red

Epic

Apple

 

Now all of the above like to make money for sure. But all of them also have different cultures, policies, structures and people. They all have different ways of dealing with suppliers, partners, customers are they have different things which they are willing and not willing to do.

CD project red I have no experience with, the rest have all been guilty anti consumer practices before.  Given the chance I dare say that most of them would again too.  How well they manage their PR and their position in the market is about the only dictator of how hard they will drive their consumer base.  AMD can't afford to piss anyone off, hence why they have bent over backwards for apple and will make deals to sell to the consoles (although I do believe their embedded GPU option is superior to a discrete GPU  for what the consoles are trying to achieve). 

 

It just numbs me to see people put their head in the sand and pretend that AMD wouldn't do that if the roles were reversed.  


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

CD project red I have no experience with, the rest have all been guilty anti consumer practices before.  Given the chance I dare say that most of them would again too.  How well they manage their PR and their position in the market is about the only dictator of how hard they will drive their consumer base.  AMD can't afford to piss anyone off, hence why they have bent over backwards for apple and will make deals to sell to the consoles (although I do believe their embedded GPU option is superior to a discrete GPU  for what the consoles are trying to achieve).  

What you are essentially saying above is that all companies are the same.
Which can only be true if all people are the same. 

 

Again not talking about AMD here, let's say they are evil... my above point still stands.

 

Notice I didn't try to classify who was good or evil on that list. The point is they are different. They have all done various good and bad things over the years, but they are not the same.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly, the Company

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

AMD can't afford to piss anyone off,

Nobody can really.

Because in the long term that will come and bite them in the ass.

 

What do you think will happen if AMD gains strength in the next couple of years and gets some of the market back and then Intel enters it and also gets a good portion of the market. Both have equal or superior products. But allow their partners a bigger margin.

Do you really think under those circumstances anyone would still like to work with nVidia??
Or rather drop them like a hot potato, given the chance?


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It just numbs me to see people put their head in the sand and pretend that AMD wouldn't do that if the roles were reversed.  

I don't see any reason to believe that would be the case right now.

Because the Company Culture is a different one between those...

 

 

Not everyone steals technology from the Competition and pushes that to the market, even if they don't make money off of it, just to look better.

Not every Company forces their Partners to drop competing products under the "Gaming" Brand.

Not every comapny tries to wall off their products.

 

Seems like you are trying to justify bad behaviour from certain companys.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Humbug said:

What you are essentially saying above is that all companies are the same.
Which can only be true if all people are the same. 

 

Again not talking about AMD here, let's say they are evil... my above point still stands.

 

Notice I didn't try to classify who was good or evil on that list. The point is they are different. They have all done various good and bad things over the years, but they are not the same.

Not being the same is not the problem, it's the similarities that is,  when you have someone pontificating that one company would not sell out their customers given the chance is fooling themselves.  Every successful company I can think of has done that or is doing that and it only stands to reason if one hasen't it is only because they haven;t had the opportunity yet.

 

6 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Exactly, the Company

Nobody can really.

Nvidia and Intel can right now.  Even apple is doing a pretty bang up job of pissing people off with little financial consequence.

6 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Because in the long term that will come and bite them in the ass.

people have short memories and money talks.

 

6 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

What do you think will happen if AMD gains strength in the next couple of years and gets some of the market back and then Intel enters it and also gets a good portion of the market. Both have equal or superior products. But allow their partners a bigger margin.

 

What are you trying to get at here?  If AMD start doing well but only have equal shares in the market then we will have a truly competitive market and prices will come down and investment will go up.

6 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:


Do you really think under those circumstances anyone would still like to work with nVidia??
Or rather drop them like a hot potato, given the chance?

Again not sure what your point is, mine is that NVIDIA can do as they please because not only do they have the market, but they have the top products and the industry position to capitalise on them.  They know whats around the corner, that's why I said they are making money while they can.

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

I don't see any reason to believe that would be the case right now.

Because the Company Culture is a different one between those...

 

 

Not everyone steals technology from the Competition and pushes that to the market, even if they don't make money off of it, just to look better.

Not every Company forces their Partners to drop competing products under the "Gaming" Brand.

Not every comapny tries to wall off their products.

 

Seems like you are trying to justify bad behaviour from certain companys.

Not everyone makes shit up about a company just because they hate them.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
2 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

No they wouldn't.

That's something you tell yourself to justify your purchases while there is nothing to back that up.

[Citation Needed]

 

If we go back to the last time AMD were competitive you'll find AMD cards cost either the same or more.

 

One example, 2008, top of the line.

 

Nvidia 9800 GX2 - $500

AMD 4870 X2 - $550

 

You being naive if you think for a second AMD wouldn't be doing exactly what Nvidia is now if they were in this position.

 

AMD only adopted the good guy approach because they lost and it was all they had to market themselves with.


Main Rig:-

Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Samsung 970 Evo 500GB NVMe | Asus Rog Strix Vega 64 8GB OC Edition | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Windows 10 Pro X64 |

 

Server:-

Raspberry Pi 4 Model B running OMV Arrakis and an 8TB Seagate USB 3.0 external HDD

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

One example, 2008, top of the line.

 

Nvidia 9800 GX2 - $500

AMD 4870 X2 - $550

That are dual GPU Cards.

Why you bring up Dual GPU Cards???

 

Besides that, you're comparing the Wrong cards!

The Competition to the 9800GX2 was the HD3870x2, not the 4870x2, that came later and competed with the nVidia 200 series.

The 8 Series Competition was the AMD 2k Series, the 9 Series was more the 3000 series, wich came rather quickly after the not so great 2900...


The 4870 was a year or so later - and the Competition Card was the 295 with the shrunk down GT200b, wich was IIRC manufactured in 55nm instead of 65nm for the GT200...

 

And well, here a Price for a random 3870x2:

https://geizhals.eu/jetway-radeon-hd-3870-x2-x38x2-en-1gq-a310140.html

 

9800GX2:

https://geizhals.eu/jetway-radeon-hd-3870-x2-x38x2-en-1gq-a310140.html

 

4870X2 - wich starts in around 2009...

https://geizhals.eu/xfx-radeon-hd-4870-x2-hd-487a-cdf9-a398748.html

 

 

Also, here in Europe, it was just around 400€:

https://geizhals.de/msi-r4870x2-t2d2g-oc-a357577.html

 

The 'normal' 4870 was around 200€
https://geizhals.de/club-3d-radeon-hd-4870-ati-design-cgax-4872dd-a344814.html

 

Some 250€:

https://geizhals.de/asus-eah4870-dk-htdi-512md5-c1cm20-j0uay00z-a370898.html

 

And it kept up with the 280 at the time, despite the "small die".

 

And now lets look at the GTX 280, granted it had a 512bit Memory Interface (wich was crippled by the 260 and later 275):

https://geizhals.eu/xfx-geforce-gtx-280-640m-xt-gx-280n-zde9-a344932.html

Started at 550€, later at around 400€.

 

A fact, when ATi at the time bashed nVidia left and right, here:

https://geizhals.eu/club-3d-radeon-9700-a44526.html -> ~300€ or so, started

 

The lower clocked 9700 was a bit cheaper:

https://geizhals.eu/sapphire-atlantis-radeon-9700-a41451.html

 

The nVidia Competition:

https://geizhals.eu/msi-ms-8904-fx5800-td8x-a48307.html <- started at ~450€ or so, dropped to ~400€ or so.

https://geizhals.eu/albatron-fx5800u-a56515.html <- same, around 400€

https://geizhals.eu/msi-ms-8904-fx5800-td8x-a48307.html <- still around 400€

 

the Successor, the FX5900 wasn't much cheaper:

https://geizhals.eu/msi-fx5900sp-vtd256-ms-8929-060-a65051.html

 

So yeah, even when ATi at the time was on top, their prices was rather agressive and reasonable, while it was nVidia who tried to bring the Prices up all the time.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

[Citation Needed]

 

If we go back to the last time AMD were competitive you'll find AMD cards cost either the same or more.

 

One example, 2008, top of the line.

 

Nvidia 9800 GX2 - $500

AMD 4870 X2 - $550

 

You being naive if you think for a second AMD wouldn't be doing exactly what Nvidia is now if they were in this position.

 

AMD only adopted the good guy approach because they lost and it was all they had to market themselves with.

To be completely fair that was ATi and not AMD, not that I'm saying AMD wouldn't have done that.


UPCOMING RYZEN BUILD CPU: AMD 3800X (acquired) Motherboard: Asus STRIX X570-E (acquired) GPU: MSI RTX 2080 SEA HAWK EK X (acquired) RAM: 16GB G.Skill 3200MHz/CL14 (acquired)  PSU: Corsair RM850x (acquired) Case: NZXT H700 White (acquired)
GAMING RIG CPU: Intel i7-6700K (4.7GHz @ 1.39v) Motherboard: Asus Z170 Pro GPU: Asus GTX 1070 8GB RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Fury Hard Drive: WD Black NVMe SSD 512GB Power Supply: XFX PRO 550W  Cooling: Corsair H115i Case: NZXT Switch 810 (white) Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 64bit Monitor: AOC 27" QHD 144Hz Keyboard: Corsair K70 Mouse: Razer DeathAdder Elite Audio: Bose QC25
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CiBi said:

To be completely fair that was ATi and not AMD, not that I'm saying AMD wouldn't have done that.

AMD is a business (and a publicly traded one at that). They will do what is best for their stakeholders, first and foremost.

 

If increasing prices on products becomes a viable business strategy (as a side note, Ryzen 3000 release prices will likely be some ~$20-$50 higher than the release prices of their older Ryzen 2000 products at each segment), they most certainly will.

Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, CiBi said:

To be completely fair that was ATi and not AMD, not that I'm saying AMD wouldn't have done that.

ATI was acquired by AMD in 2006, before the 4870X2 was even on the table.

 

If you want something further, AMD launched the HD 7970 for $550. A few months later, the GTX 680 came out for $500, and it went toe-to-toe with it. I believe AMD dropped the price of the 7970 shortly after. This was the last time AMD was first to the "next generation," if you will, of GPUs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

ATI was acquired by AMD in 2006, before the 4870X2 was even on the table.

 

If you want something further, AMD launched the HD 7970 for $550. A few months later, the GTX 680 came out for $500, and it went toe-to-toe with it. I believe AMD dropped the price of the 7970 shortly after. This was the last time AMD was first to the "next generation," if you will, of GPUs.

Ow my bad, didn't know it had been that long. And as I said, I never contested that AMD would do the same XD


UPCOMING RYZEN BUILD CPU: AMD 3800X (acquired) Motherboard: Asus STRIX X570-E (acquired) GPU: MSI RTX 2080 SEA HAWK EK X (acquired) RAM: 16GB G.Skill 3200MHz/CL14 (acquired)  PSU: Corsair RM850x (acquired) Case: NZXT H700 White (acquired)
GAMING RIG CPU: Intel i7-6700K (4.7GHz @ 1.39v) Motherboard: Asus Z170 Pro GPU: Asus GTX 1070 8GB RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Fury Hard Drive: WD Black NVMe SSD 512GB Power Supply: XFX PRO 550W  Cooling: Corsair H115i Case: NZXT Switch 810 (white) Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 64bit Monitor: AOC 27" QHD 144Hz Keyboard: Corsair K70 Mouse: Razer DeathAdder Elite Audio: Bose QC25
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

GPU history aside, let's take a look at the last time AMD was basically top dog. In particular before Intel released the Core 2. AMD launched the Athlon X2 5000+, which was the top-end "consumer grade" model at $696 (EDIT: Note I'm considering the FX lineup, as separate, since it was aimed at the HEDT market) (https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feature-amd-athlon-64-x2-5000-and-fx-62, https://www.cnet.com/reviews/amd-athlon-64-x2-5000-plus-review/) Shortly after that, Intel released the Core 2 Duo. The E6600 was about half the cost and performed just as good. AMD started aggressively slashing prices afterwards. And even then, its $459 processor back in February 2007 was about the same performance as the C2D E6600 (https://www.anandtech.com/show/2177)

 

I mean, I'll give the fanboys the benefit of the doubt that AMD was led by a different management team back then, unlike NVIDIA who's still headed by its founder. Though the same argument can't be said about Intel, who had 3 different CEOs between 2000 and 2018, with 2005-2013 headed by one of them.

Edited by Mira Yurizaki
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

I mean, I'll give the fanboys the benefit of the doubt that AMD was led by a different management team back then

:

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

people have short memories and money talks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Really hoping we get 2080Ti level of performance or better at a $650-700 price point. I have SLI 980's and I really want to move to a single card solution.  Thing is, I don't want to sacrifice performance when both cards are being used. 

 

Currently, the only options I have are the 1080/2070 which match SLI 980, 1080Ti/2080 which give me a nice boost, but cost a lot, and the 2080Ti which gives me a great boost but at an INSANE price point. Now, each one of these would be a great boost when SLI is not supported... but I want a boost with and without SLI. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Jeebus. I thought the FX series was the only one that commanded that price range.

AMD actually was the first CPU maker to have a $1000 MSRP product (consumer), not Intel.

 

Edit:

Quote

The FX-57 is very expensive and comes in at a whopping $1031 (in quantities of 1000 from AMD). While this is the fastest processor on the market, let's take a look at the benchmarks to see how much we get for the money.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1722

 

That's the old single core Athlon 64 for anyone that doesn't know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, leadeater said:

AMD actually was the first CPU maker to have a $1000 MSRP product (consumer), not Intel.

 

Edit:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1722

 

That's the old single core Athlon 64 for anyone that doesn't know.

Shoosh you,  if people find out there is nothing intrinsically special about specific companies the petty shit digs might stop.

 

 

For the thread in general,  I buy what ever performs the best for my dollar at the time of purchase.  That's it. In the last 20-30 years Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Cyrix, via and Voodoo (God rest their souls) have all traded blows for the best performing/price at all levels.   That is why over the last 20 years I have had systems with all brands in them.   The only deviation from this MO is my most  recent project (which funnily enough is a ryzen build), because I had the motherboard left over from another project and hence it will be determined by the best Ryzen at the time and not by the best of all the CPU's at the time.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Buy VPN

×