A rebuttal to Linus' take on Nvidia introducing multiple RTX 2060 SKUs

[Daniel644]

3 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

Using a lot of punctuation doesn't make you correct.

Yeah, what Nvidia is doing is stupid, but anyone who can do a minute's worth of research can figure out if a card has GDDR5 or GDDR6 pretty easily and the amount of memory it contains, especially if they're not lazy.

i'm about to rip my hair out with the number of times i've had to repeat myself, THEY WON'T KNOW, that there are 5 and 6 variants.

 

just think of the number of times you see someone posting on here in the New Builds or somewhere asking if they can overclock a non-K skew Intel CPU or having paired an H-series board with a K skew CPU. do you think something buried deep in the specs sheet is gonna stand out to those types?

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Daniel644 said:

YOU STILL DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

People won't realize there are 2 different products because they will see the RTX2060 and the memory amount and think thats it, HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS????????

 

and I DO educate the people willing to listen, of which you appear not to be, so i'm done with you too.

Stop yelling,  it's incredible bad form and really makes you look like a fool. 

 

What will they see, link me to a picture of this product they will see.  I think you will find you are arguing about a condition that hasn't occurred yet. 

 

My advice to you is to stop yelling ignorant comments at people and wait until you actual have something to argue.   Because at the moment all we have is a list of model names that are all different.  So your argument that consumers will see only one thing is something you have manufactured in your mind and arguing as if it is true.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Daniel644 said:

i'm about to rip my hair out with the number of times i've had to repeat myself, THEY WON'T KNOW, that there are 5 and 6 variants.

It's not our fault you have preconceived notion in your head that doesn't align with reality.  Can you show me a two products that are labelled/advertised as the same but are actually different?

[Dylanc1500]

Just now, mr moose said:

It's not our fault you have preconceived notion in your head that doesn't align with reality.  Can you show me a two products that are labelled/advertised as the same but are actually different?

My assumption is that @Daniel644 is concerned about whether it will be notated somewhere on the packaging about the type of memory. Which in the past they always put somewhere on the packing that it has a different memory type if there were multiple options.

 

You can correct me if I'm wrong.

[strajk-]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It's not our fault you have preconceived notion in your head that doesn't align with reality.  Can you show me a two products that are labelled/advertised as the same but are actually different?

1060 is a good example, look at attached files, same boxing and labeling, only the amount of memory changes, but we all know that's not all that differs between both cards. 

 

Consumers will just look at the front of the box, they see the difference in ram and that's it. 

[mr moose]

Just now, Dylanc1500 said:

My assumption is that @Daniel644 is concerned about whether it will be notated somewhere on the packaging about the type of memory. Which in the past they always put somewhere on the packing that it has a different memory type if there were multiple options.

 

You can correct me if I'm wrong.

I know that is his concern, That is also the major flaw in his argument, to date I have not seen two different products in exactly the same package. the box always has a model number that varies with the ream type and size at the very least. 

 

Now lets go out o n a limb and assume that does not happen and the boxes for some stupid illegal reason are identical,  one is cheaper, the smart shopper asks why? the fool just buys it and walks out.

[D13H4RD]

21 minutes ago, Daniel644 said:

YOU STILL DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

People won't realize there are 2 different products because they will see the RTX2060 and the memory amount and think thats it, HOW DO YOU NOT GET THIS????????

 

and I DO educate the people willing to listen, of which you appear not to be, so i'm done with you too.

Calm your tits.

 

There's a reason we have to ensure that the product is accurately labeled on the packaging and SKU and also why we have to do research on exactly what's the difference between them.

 

My stance has always been the same. Unless there are more meaningful differences, it's ultimately redundant, but proper labeling goes a long way. I still maintain that the beefier model be called an RTX 2060 Ti and the cut-down model (less VRAM/less VRAM that's also of a relatively weaker type and/or less CUDA cores versus the full-specced model) be called an RTX 2060, kind of like the GTX 1050 vs 1050 Ti. 

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, strajk- said:

1060 is a good example, look at attached files, same boxing and labeling, only the amount of memory changes, but we all know that's not all that differs between both cards. 

(Snip pictures)

Consumers will just look at the front of the box, they see the difference in ram and that's it. 

 

 

As I said

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 the box always has a model number that varies with the ream type and size at the very least. 

 

I

[Dylanc1500]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I know that is his concern, That is also the major flaw in his argument, to date I have not seen two different products in exactly the same package. the box always has a model number that varies with the ream type and size at the very least. 

 

Now lets go out o n a limb and assume that does not happen and the boxes for some stupid illegal reason are identical,  one is cheaper, the smart shopper asks why? the fool just buys it and walks out.

I never said agreed with it, just trying to figure his/her's mindset out.

 

 

[JoostinOnline]

How you feel about it ultimately comes down to if you care about how many people are going to get screwed out of their money. If you only care about yourself, you won't see it as a problem.

[Daniel644]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It's not our fault you have preconceived notion in your head that doesn't align with reality.  Can you show me a two products that are labelled/advertised as the same but are actually different?

I can't because no one else does it, outside of maybe RAM where you gotta dig into the specs to see the timings, even in the TV world you jump numbers at the front of each model, like 4100xxxxxxx to 5400xxxxxxx to 6900xxxxxxxx so there is clearly a difference, some much smaller print of the type of memory being used isn't going to standout to 90%+ of people.

[strajk-]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

As I said

I

What you said doesn't really apply in this case, since both 1060 are advertised as the same, yet the 6gb variant is superior in performance. 

[Daniel644]

1 minute ago, strajk- said:

What you said doesn't really apply in this case, since both 1060 are advertised as the same, yet the 6gb variant is superior in performance. 

and NOT just because of more Vram

[D13H4RD]

5 minutes ago, Daniel644 said:

I can't because no one else does it, outside of maybe RAM where you gotta dig into the specs to see the timings, even in the TV world you jump numbers at the front of each model, like 4100xxxxxxx to 5400xxxxxxx to 6900xxxxxxxx so there is clearly a difference, some much smaller print of the type of memory being used isn't going to standout to 90%+ of people.

You don't actually have to go that far.

 

It's common assumption to most people that the higher number generally equals the better product (may not always be the case).

 

The problem comes when both products share the same name and lack any meaningful taglines to properly differentiate the two. Such as the two GT 1030s. They share the same name, but come with 2 different memory types. Some AIBs are diligent and properly put the 2 different memory types (DDR4/GDDR5) clearly and properly on the box. But others are less so, putting the memory type in fine print, usually at the side or even the back of the box, but not the front.

 

You can reasonably assume that the lower VRAM variant of the same card would perform worse. How much worse? That's where research comes into play. I've constantly criticized NVIDIA and AMD for never properly putting taglines on the different cards they release that share the same name to indicate the differences more clearly, and unless this changes, researching is your best bet.

[PlayStation 2]

Why is the overarching theme of this thread "people are so stupid that they don't know knives are pointy"?

[Daniel644]

1 minute ago, handymanshandle said:

Why is the overarching theme of this thread "people are so stupid that they don't know knives are pointy"?

not knowing knives are pointy is a gross oversimplification of what is going on here, you are expecting the average person to know how the type of VRAM (which is gonna be written in the smallest print on the front of the box, if at all) is going to greatly effect the performance. this is far beyond general knowledge, walk into a electronics store, pick up one of each and ask a random person if they know which is better, then get back to me.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, strajk- said:

What you said doesn't really apply in this case, since both 1060 are advertised as the same, yet the 6gb variant is superior in performance. 

Every GPU I've bought has had the details on the model number on the box, this includes ram, ram type.

 

Just now, D13H4RD said:

You don't actually have to go that far.

 

It's common assumption to most people that the higher number generally equals the better product (may or may not be the same).

 

The problem comes when both products share the same name and lack any meaningful taglines to properly differentiate the two. Such as the two GT 1030s. They share the same name, but come with 2 different memory types. Some AIBs are diligent and properly put the 2 different memory types (DDR4/GDDR5) clearly and properly on the box. But others are less so, putting the memory type in fine print, usually at the side or even the back of the box, but not the front.

Even the model numbers on the 1030's tell you what type of ram they have.

 

7 minutes ago, Daniel644 said:

I can't because no one else does it, outside of maybe RAM where you gotta dig into the specs to see the timings, even in the TV world you jump numbers at the front of each model, like 4100xxxxxxx to 5400xxxxxxx to 6900xxxxxxxx so there is clearly a difference, some much smaller print of the type of memory being used isn't going to standout to 90%+ of people.

I didn't ask you to show me a specific product I said any product.   As I have said above, I have yet to see two different products inside exactly the same box.

 

And before we go any further, might I remind you of this:

 

Quote

This issue is not he number of SKU's, it's product misrepresentation either in the form of marketing or at the sales counter.  I don't want my choices limited because someone thinks their parents don't know when to seek further information.

 

[D13H4RD]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Even the model numbers on the 1030's tell you what type of ram they have.

Sadly, not every AIB is diligent to put proper concise information that is of utmost importance front and center.

 

Some like MSI are good and properly label "2GB DDR4" right in front, but others are much more vague, usually just putting "2GB" and leaving the actual memory type somewhere on the side or the back.

[mr moose]

Just now, D13H4RD said:

Sadly, not every AIB is diligent to put proper concise information that is of utmost importance front and center.

 

Some like MSI are good and properly label "2GB DDR4" right in front, but others are much more vague, usually just putting "2GB" and leaving the actual memory type somewhere on the side or the back.

But it's still on there.  That is my point, So long as the specs of the product are on the box (nearly always on the model number on the serial sticker), then you have the information.  Honestly when I buy a product that I don't know jack shit about and it is cheaper I ask why? I look for why. if a consumer doesn't do that then they are either a fool or they have been conned (which is different to the problem here).

[D13H4RD]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Honestly when I buy a product that I don't know jack shit about and it is cheaper I ask why? I look for why. if a consumer doesn't do that then they are either a fool or they have been conned (which is different to the problem here).

I specifically highlighted that because it's something that people who shop for anything needs to ask themselves more regularly.

 

It concerns me because I know a lot of people usually don't read the fine print and/or technical information, usually referring to information relayed from marketing sheets and/or salesmen who may not know everything about the product they're selling (yeah, I've met these kinds).

 

I don't think the practice of NVIDIA and AMD releasing a dozen cards that share the same basic name (sometimes to the point of redundancy) will end anytime soon, so you have to be diligent in your buying decision and do all the research you can. Don't just get the item because of marketing or from whatever a salesperson says. Get all the information you need to make an informed and effective decision on your purchase.

 

It's better to be restrained and peg back a bit on the excitement to get all the information you need before you finally make a purchase rather than making a purchase out of excitement only to regret it later.

[strajk-]

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Every GPU I've bought has had the details on the model number on the box, this includes ram, ram type.

You asked for a single product that is advertised as the same, that is what I gave you, that is what that Asus GPU implies, different memory size, same gpu. 

 

Except it's not like comparing the iPhone 64GiB with the iPhone 128GiB, both 1060 have a 10% performance discrepancy... 

 

I would like you to point out in that box where it references that performance difference, you won't be able to find it, because it's not labeled anywhere since it is advertised as the same gpu but with different memory size. 

 

Until you do, I rest my case, model numbers written small in the back of the box do not count since the average consumer won't look into it, and neither did everyone that initially bought the 3gb variant, until it got covered that both variants are effectively different in performance by a significant margin... 

[D13H4RD]

3 minutes ago, strajk- said:

Until you do, I rest my case, model numbers written small in the back of the box do not count since the average consumer won't look into it, and neither did everyone that bought the 3gb variant initially until it got discovered that both variants are effectively different in performance by a significant margin... 

GTX 1060 3GB -> GTX 1060

GTX 1060 6GB -> GTX 1060 Ti

 

That's how I would do it anyhow. It's a similar ethos to the GP107 GPUs, where the cut-down model with 2GB of GDDR5 is the GTX 1050 and the one with the full CUDA core count and 4GB of GDDR5 is the GTX 1050 Ti.

[mr moose]

18 minutes ago, strajk- said:

You asked for a single product that is advertised as the same, that is what I gave you, that is what that Asus GPU implies, different memory size, same gpu. 

 

Except it's not like comparing the iPhone 64GiB with the iPhone 128GiB, both 1060 have a 10% performance discrepancy... 

 

I would like you to point out in that box where it references that performance difference, you won't be able to find it, because it's not labeled anywhere since it is advertised as the same gpu but with different memory size. 

 

Until you do, I rest my case, model numbers written small in the back of the box do not count since the average consumer won't look into it, and neither did everyone that initially bought the 3gb variant, until it got covered that both variants are effectively different in performance by a significant margin... 

Not having access to a box or to be able read the numbers On it I can't,  so rest away.

[Daniel644]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Not having access to a box or to be able read the numbers On it I can't,  so rest away.

dude showed you pictures of IDENTICAL BOXES outside of the single number difference of the Vram amount. clearly you are ignoring this as he proved you wrong.

[mr moose]

20 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

I specifically highlighted that because it's something that people who shop for anything needs to ask themselves more regularly.

 

It concerns me because I know a lot of people usually don't read the fine print and/or technical information, usually referring to information relayed from marketing sheets and/or salesmen who may not know everything about the product they're selling (yeah, I've met these kinds).

 

I don't think the practice of NVIDIA and AMD releasing a dozen cards that share the same basic name (sometimes to the point of redundancy) will end anytime soon, so you have to be diligent in your buying decision and do all the research you can. Don't just get the item because of marketing or from whatever a salesperson says. Get all the information you need to make an informed and effective decision on your purchase.

 

It's better to be restrained and peg back a bit on the excitement to get all the information you need before you finally make a purchase rather than making a purchase out of excitement only to regret it later.

It's pretty simple isn't it. I have also seen many tv's that do not have the native resolution listed on the box front (it usually just say HD), which is why if it doesn't say and the store can't guarantee then I assume it is either the lowest resolution possible or I don't buy it.

 

I just find it amusing that everyone is shit canning NVIDIA for this, but they are pointing to AIB companies as being the culprits of this "false" advertising.  It seems to me either the anger is misplaced in this thread because people don't understand the industry or they just don't want to hole AIB's responsible when it's so easy to shit on nvidia for doing little more than giving us options.