Windows 9 upgrade either free or $20, Enterprise has no Metro interface

[Builder]

well done.  you are now saying what I said at first.  Nothing is free, you pay for it through markups elsewhere.

 

why do you think DRM has anything to do with this? Go to pirate bay and get a DRM free copy of windows, it's just as legit as using OS X on a non apple branded pc.

whether or not apple want to install DRM software on their OS is irrelevant.

That's not what I meant by subsidized. Apple has almost 50% of the profit in both the desktop and mobile sectors, even given what you claim to be their "decreasing" marketshare. They use that profit to make the software updates free. If you can prove to me that a Windows device with similar specs, form factor, and battery life to the MacBook Air costs less, then I will believe your point. But as it stands, PCs cost less than Macs as well because they subsidize a lot of the cost with bloatware. Even then, you won't find a comparable PC for less.

 

DRM has a lot to do with it because the reason they can make you pay for Windows is with DRM. Sure, you can pirate it, but that's illegal. Both are illegitimate so it's difficult to compare the two. The point is that you can install Mavericks and soon Yosemite on any and all Macs you own for no cost, (and all future Macs) you claim that there is a ridiculous markup in their price which you have not as of yet demonstrated, and you can't do the same with Windows. Notice the UPGRADE is free for Windows 9, if you have 7 you have to pay full price. It's completely different from being ACTUALLY free. 

 

Free means you don't have to pay for it, not that no cost was expended while producing or that it has no value. Windows is not free, OS X is.

[Misanthrope]

Hey, that actually made this thread on topic, incredibly powerful that ignore. TBH, I didn't know it was there cos it's fucking hidden, why isn't it an option in someone's profile is beyond me.

 

 

Back on topic:

I though there was an option to turn Metro off on a PC, but on phones and tablets it was default.

 

Rantastic:

I wonder if 9 will finally get rid of this pain in the ass "This removable media has a problem, would like to scan" *scan for 10800393 minutes* "Scan finished, no errors were found" .... Ghhh, throws Windows out the window FFS!

 

Oh you can hide it, but then there's shit that you HAVE to go through it like trying to go on safe mode, I normally spend 20 minutes trying to explain to a customer to move their mouse to the right and bottom, get the menu to come up, then go through like 5 more clicks to get to advance start up which is what they called.

 

Quite fucking frustrating from the good old "restart and just keep hitting F8 until you see some windows options"

[<boss2939>]

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zenbook-UX32LN-R4053H-Ultrabook-Review.118273.0.html

 

Heck,this is even better.

It even has an 840M,which is way way waaay better for gaming(if that's your stuff)

It has a 1080p IPS panel(compared to the 1440x900 of the MBA's)

 

And it's 900 EUR,so in the US that would be around 900 bucks.Not widely available though(it is where I live though)

 

The only thing nobody can match is the battery life,but that's mainly because of the OS.

dude i'm not a mac guy actually now I own a chromebook but. come on who games in a ultrabook plus macbook air has 13 hour battery life like isn't that what ultrabooks are for and honestly the quality in apple products are really good have you seen the inside of a macbook air all black pcb and in general looks sexy as hell and it cost 1000 which is competitive compared to other ultrabooks plus you get free updates for like 5+ years. 

[mr moose]

That's not what I meant by subsidized. Apple has almost 50% of the profit in both the desktop and mobile sectors, even given what you claim to be their "decreasing" marketshare. They use that profit to make the software updates free. If you can prove to me that a Windows device with similar specs, form factor, and battery life to the MacBook Air costs less, then I will believe your point. But as it stands, PCs cost less than Macs as well because they subsidize a lot of the cost with bloatware. Even then, you won't find a comparable PC for less.

 

DRM has a lot to do with it because the reason they can make you pay for Windows is with DRM. Sure, you can pirate it, but that's illegal. Both are illegitimate so it's difficult to compare the two. The point is that you can install Mavericks and soon Yosemite on any and all Macs you own for no cost, (and all future Macs) you claim that there is a ridiculous markup in their price which you have not as of yet demonstrated, and you can't do the same with Windows. Notice the UPGRADE is free for Windows 9, if you have 7 you have to pay full price. It's completely different from being ACTUALLY free. 

 

Free means you don't have to pay for it, not that no cost was expended while producing or that it has no value. Windows is not free, OS X is.

what?  what does market share have to do with anything?  I never mentioned market share nor did I mention mobile devices. Do you install OS X on mobile devices? no, please stop obfuscating the  discussion.

 

I don't need to demonstrate that there is a premium on apple products, many people have shown this over and over again already,  even hardcore apple fanboys acknowledge there is a premium, they even mention several reasons they think the cost is higher. 

 

As you said your self, both options are illegitimate, both are against the ToS and thus both are illegal.  Like it or not the only way to have a legitimate OS is to pay for it, either by buying hardware that is a little more expensive or by buying a license.  Either way you pay for it.

[Builder]

what?  what does market share have to do with anything?  I never mentioned market share nor did I mention mobile devices. Do you install OS X on mobile devices? no, please stop obfuscating the  discussion.

 

If you read that, it was explaining how they pay for OS X to be free. By having 50% of all profits made in both of their largest industries.

 

I don't need to demonstrate that there is a premium on apple products, many people have shown this over and over again already,  even hardcore apple fanboys acknowledge there is a premium, they even mention several reasons they think the cost is higher. 

 

"Just believe me when I say it." You have yet to demonstrate it, it has not as of yet been done. The previous example lacked the slim profile and battery life of the MacBook Air.

 

As you said your self, both options are illegitimate, both are against the ToS and thus both are illegal.  Like it or not the only way to have a legitimate OS is to pay for it, either by buying hardware that is a little more expensive or by buying a license.  Either way you pay for it.

 

No, you can go to an Apple store with a USB stick and download it. Or you can ask a friend for a copy.

[mr moose]

 

what?  what does market share have to do with anything?  I never mentioned market share nor did I mention mobile devices. Do you install OS X on mobile devices? no, please stop obfuscating the  discussion.

 

If you read that, it was explaining how they pay for OS X to be free. By having 50% of all profits made in both of their largest industries.

 

I don't need to demonstrate that there is a premium on apple products, many people have shown this over and over again already,  even hardcore apple fanboys acknowledge there is a premium, they even mention several reasons they think the cost is higher. 

 

"Just believe me when I say it." You have yet to demonstrate it, it has not as of yet been done. The previous example lacked the slim profile and battery life of the MacBook Air.

 

As you said your self, both options are illegitimate, both are against the ToS and thus both are illegal.  Like it or not the only way to have a legitimate OS is to pay for it, either by buying hardware that is a little more expensive or by buying a license.  Either way you pay for it.

 

No, you can go to an Apple store with a USB stick and download it. Or you can ask a friend for a copy.

 

So your saying the consumer pays a markup in other area's and that coverts the cost?  even though in the very next sentence you say there is no premium on apple products that covers the cost of the OS.  you can't have it both ways.

 

It has been done, claiming the case is slightly slimmer and battery lasting a smidgen longer are not justifications of an extra $150.

 

So apple will go against their own terms of service and supply me OSX? 

[Builder]

So your saying the consumer pays a markup in other area's and that coverts the cost?  even though in the very next sentence you say there is no premium on apple products that covers the cost of the OS.  you can't have it both ways.

 

You don't understand what I'm saying. There aren't markups on the individual products, but they sell so many of them that they don't need the OS to pay for itself anymore. The iPhone's sales alone can probably power development of new iPhones and OS X.

 

It has been done, claiming the case is slightly slimmer and battery lasting a smidgen longer are not justifications of an extra $150.

 

I'm sorry, what's the battery life on that hulking gaming laptop? I don't think it's anywhere close to 12-14 hours. Slightly slimmer? You could fit two MacBook Airs in that chassis, and it weighs a ton.

 

So apple will go against their own terms of service and supply me OSX? 

 

When did I say this? You are allowed to do that in Apple stores, I've done it, I even asked the guy if it was OK and they were all fine with it. Downloaded it, put it on a USB stick, handed the USB to my friend the next day, and he put it on his connection-dead MacBook.

[mr moose]

 

So your saying the consumer pays a markup in other area's and that coverts the cost?  even though in the very next sentence you say there is no premium on apple products that covers the cost of the OS.  you can't have it both ways.

 

You don't understand what I'm saying. There aren't markups on the individual products, but they sell so many of them that they don't need the OS to pay for itself anymore. The iPhone's sales alone can probably power development of new iPhones and OS X.

 

It has been done, claiming the case is slightly slimmer and battery lasting a smidgen longer are not justifications of an extra $150.

 

I'm sorry, what's the battery life on that hulking gaming laptop? I don't think it's anywhere close to 12-14 hours. Slightly slimmer? You could fit two MacBook Airs in that chassis, and it weighs a ton.

 

So apple will go against their own terms of service and supply me OSX? 

 

When did I say this? You are allowed to do that in Apple stores, I've done it, I even asked the guy if it was OK and they were all fine with it. Downloaded it, put it on a USB stick, handed the USB to my friend the next day, and he put it on his connection-dead MacBook.

 

so you are saying the markups on other products pays for OSX.

 

If you can't see the issue there there is no point in listing all the examples. you'll only find inconsequential reasons to dismiss the example.

 

As I have already proven, the terms of service expressly forbid the supply of OS X for install on non apple branded computers. Ergo against ToS for an apple store to supply it to me. Therefore it's not free you have to have bought an apple computer to be entitled to it.

[Builder]

so you are saying the markups on other products pays for OSX.

 

No, but since this is the fifth time now, I don't think it bears repeating. However I will ask you to notice that the price of Macs did not go up when Mavericks was made free.

 

If you can't see the issue there there is no point in listing all the examples. you'll only find inconsequential reasons to dismiss the example.

 

I'll need more context here, not sure what you were referencing.

 

As I have already proven, the terms of service expressly forbid the supply of OS X for install on non apple branded computers. Ergo against ToS for an apple store to supply it to me. Therefore it's not free you have to have bought an apple computer to be entitled to it.

 

No, the OS itself is not licensed to be copied off an Apple computer. Read carefully. What you do with the installer nobody cares about. Redistribute it, copy it, etc. Everyone who uses it in unmodified form still has to accept the ToS. They can (and do, as I've been trying to tell you) supply the installer to everyone. They can't however supply the OS to anyone.

 

I realize they expressly forbid Hackintoshing, however they always have and making it free has only made a Hackintosher's job easier.

[Phillyphries]

Not buying the enterprise, because I actually do like the new UI.

 

But will upgrade for sure if it's free

[Fetzie]

In USD that's over $1200, for which price you can get a MacBook Pro Retina 13" with 2560*1600 display, Iris Pro, and an i5-4278U.

 

Depends on your sales tax situation. ~20% sales tax (somewhere between 17% and 25% depending on country) is included in the displayed price in Europe.

 

Dude, I just told you to compare it to a MacBook Pro at that price. You're willfully ignoring me now. I do understand price conversion, I EVEN GAVE YOU A LINK TO THE LAPTOP WITH A PRICE IN USD. HOW FUCKING DENSE ARE YOU?

"1 Euro equals 1.32 US Dollar"

And yet importers pass on the customs duty to the customer so we never see the benefit of that conversion.

Yes, the Euro is a stronger currency than the US Dollar, meaning that in theory stuff should have a lower price than in the US but that simply is never the case. Computer games that cost 50 bucks cost 50 euro. My WoW sub costs 12 euro per month on the 3 monthly renewal, and would cost 12 dollars in the US. My GPU cost 330 Euro when I bought it; the retail price at the time in the US? About 330 dollars. My CPU, before the rebate (shifting stock for the 3570K release) would have cost me 212 Euro. Guess what the RRP for an i5 2500K was in the USA. Oh, right - about $210. I could go on all day.

While the currency exchangers will give you about 132 dollars for 100 euro, you NEVER see that conversion rate for consumer goods. You are lucky to get a 1:1 conversion rate on the final price.

[mr moose]

 

so you are saying the markups on other products pays for OSX.

 

No, but since this is the fifth time now, I don't think it bears repeating. However I will ask you to notice that the price of Macs did not go up when Mavericks was made free.

 

If you can't see the issue there there is no point in listing all the examples. you'll only find inconsequential reasons to dismiss the example.

 

I'll need more context here, not sure what you were referencing.

 

As I have already proven, the terms of service expressly forbid the supply of OS X for install on non apple branded computers. Ergo against ToS for an apple store to supply it to me. Therefore it's not free you have to have bought an apple computer to be entitled to it.

 

No, the OS itself is not licensed to be copied off an Apple computer. Read carefully. What you do with the installer nobody cares about. Redistribute it, copy it, etc. Everyone who uses it in unmodified form still has to accept the ToS. They can (and do, as I've been trying to tell you) supply the installer to everyone. They can't however supply the OS to anyone.

 

I realize they expressly forbid Hackintoshing, however they always have and making it free has only made a Hackintosher's job easier.

 

So you are saying it, but your  also not saying it.  It's a black and white thing, either apple make enough money of hardware sales to pay for OS X or it doesn't. you choose what you want to believe. But seeing as It costs money to code, and update an OS I think I'll stick to the fact that the cost of OS X is in the price of apple hardware.

 

So you agree, you are not allowed to supply OS X unless you are installing it on hardware sold by apple.  What people do with copies of an OS does not change the business model by which that OS is produced and supplied.

[Builder]

So you are saying it, but your  also not saying it.  It's a black and white thing, either apple make enough money of hardware sales to pay for OS X or it doesn't. you choose what you want to believe. But seeing as It costs money to code, and update an OS I think I'll stick to the fact that the cost of OS X is in the price of apple hardware.

But there's a difference between what you say and what I say. The volume of sale has a lot to do with it.

[mr moose]

But there's a difference between what you say and what I say. The volume of sale has a lot to do with it.

no difference at all.  Volume of sales doesn't change the fact that the price is incorporated in hardware sales. 

[Builder]

no difference at all.  Volume of sales doesn't change the fact that the price is incorporated in hardware sales. 

In hardware sales total, not the individual sales. As in iPhone and iPad sales too.

 

What about this is so hard for you to understand? There was NO PRICE INCREASE when Mavericks was made free, in fact there have been price DECREASES since then.

 

There's a difference between them taking some of the profits from their hardware sales and using it to develop their software and incorporating the price of the software into the price of the device. Wholistically speaking, they subsidize their software with their hardware. Not on an individual level, as has been demonstrated before by the complete lack of comparable products in a similar price range, (that Lenovo was actually on sale) and the lack of increase in price when the OS was made free.

[mr moose]

In hardware sales total, not the individual sales. As in iPhone and iPad sales too.

 

What about this is so hard for you to understand? There was NO PRICE INCREASE when Mavericks was made free, in fact there have been price DECREASES since then.

 

There's a difference between them taking some of the profits from their hardware sales and using it to develop their software and incorporating the price of the software into the price of the device. Wholistically speaking, they subsidize their software with their hardware. Not on an individual level, as has been demonstrated before by the complete lack of comparable products in a similar price range, (that Lenovo was actually on sale) and the lack of increase in price when the OS was made free.

 

You just haven't read the last 3 pages have you?  Total sales is irrelevant,  volume is irrelevant. Even if an apple costs the same as a comparable windows pc then the OS is paid for in that because very windows pc has $50 built into the cost to pay for the OS, If OS X was actually free then apple pc's should be $50 cheaper than comparable windows pc's.  But they're not, if anything they are more or have less features for the price.*

 

You can try and get out of it by arguing things like "wholistic" approach or "volume sales" but essentially what you are saying is that apple recoup the cost of their OS from hardware. Which is what I said right back in my second post.  Nothing is free. 

 

 

 

*supporting evidence:

 

The dell has a hybrid hdd and slightly larger touch screen.

while the imac has an IPS panel

Price difference = 2c in favor of dell:

 

http://store.apple.com/au/buy-mac/imac?product=ME086X/A&step=config

http://www.dell.com/au/p/inspiron-2350-aio/pd?oc=x210481au&model_id=inspiron-2350-aio

 

EDIT: here's a laptop example:

 

Dell, better processor, bigger screen, more ram, bigger hdd and half the price

while the apple has a better screen and better battery:

 

http://www.dell.com/au/p/inspiron-15-3542-laptop/pd?oc=dx510403au&model_id=inspiron-15-3542-laptop

http://store.apple.com/au/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MD101X/A&step=config

 

You can argue subjectivity until the cows come home, but at the end of the day the 15" mac is more expensive again and the only real difference between these two is the OS.

[aom]

If you're gaming, then yes. For everything else, no. That thing is enormous and I bet it doesn't get great battery life either. 

 

I'll admit, you beat me on performance. But you didn't get the form factor or the battery, which are both important features of the MacBook Air.

 

You don't have to buy an Apple branded PC, you can download it onto a USB stick in an Apple store. You really don't understand what DRM is, do you? Your friends can even give you a copy. There's no license key, no DRM whatsoever. ToS does not equal DRM.

 

You're putting all these words in my mouth. I'm not saying Apple doesn't make profit, I've said several times now that ​their hardware subsidizes their software. What can't you understand about that?

 

And for what Brinith found, that $150 isn't just empty cash, you get a MUCH slimmer profile, it's much lighter and has longer battery life. For the average user, that's much more important. Specs includes battery life and form factor, which I still maintain can't be matched for the price of a MacBook Air.

 

Read The Wirecutters exhaustive roundup of laptops here: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-laptop/

Form Factor is only a 1inch diagonal difference (Y40 is a 14 inch laptop) And is around the same thickness. The only thing it can't beat is battery, so Ill give it that.

[Builder]

-snip-

You still haven't managed to come up with a direct comparison to the 15" Pro though. Wow, a 2c difference. Really gouging their customers on that one, aren't they?

 

I'm not even sure why you're comparing anything to the 13" Pro. It's not really a good deal and the Retina is far better. If you want a cheap large laptop then Apple is not the way to go. You cite your claim with examples that are two cents cheaper and one that is a poor comparison. I will cede that the 13" non-Retina pro is not very good price to performance wise. But we've been talking about the Retina and the Air the whole time.

 

Form Factor is only a 1inch diagonal difference (Y40 is a 14 inch laptop) And is around the same thickness. The only thing it can't beat is battery, so Ill give it that.

And resolution. And SSD.

 

That Y40 is also on a massive discount.

[mr moose]

You still haven't managed to come up with a direct comparison to the 15" Pro though. Wow, a 2c difference. Really gouging their customers on that one, aren't they?

 

I'm not even sure why you're comparing anything to the 13" Pro. It's not really a good deal and the Retina is far better. If you want a cheap large laptop then Apple is not the way to go. You cite your claim with examples that are two cents cheaper and one that is a poor comparison. I will cede that the 13" non-Retina pro is not very good price to performance wise. But we've been talking about the Retina and the Air the whole time.

 

And resolution. And SSD.

 

That Y40 is also on a massive discount.

 

I guess your not reading my posts then. 

 

 

You just haven't read the last 3 pages have you?  Total sales is irrelevant,  volume is irrelevant. Even if an apple costs the same as a comparable windows pc then the OS is paid for in that because very windows pc has $50 built into the cost to pay for the OS, If OS X was actually free then apple pc's should be $50 cheaper than comparable windows pc's.  But they're not, if anything they are more or have less features for the price.*

 

[Builder]

I guess your not reading my posts then. 

Other way around.

 

Either way, this conversation is over.

[mr moose]

 

Either way, this conversation is over.

I think the conversation ended 4 pages ago.

[Kingofpants]

What of those that bought a computer with Windows 8 (my parents)

Good god man , Get with the program, a the update to Windows 8.1 is free and in the windows store, Windows 8.1 is a Good OS and there is NO REASON to stay at Windows 8.

[StingBull]

While we are "off topicing" I would like to say Builder, you are denser than a collapsed star.

Your arguments are pathetic and the point you are trying to prove is also pointless.

You keep saying MacBook Air is great value in its field but apparently only you decide what that field is.

That is just dumb.

[aom]

You still haven't managed to come up with a direct comparison to the 15" Pro though. Wow, a 2c difference. Really gouging their customers on that one, aren't they?

 

I'm not even sure why you're comparing anything to the 13" Pro. It's not really a good deal and the Retina is far better. If you want a cheap large laptop then Apple is not the way to go. You cite your claim with examples that are two cents cheaper and one that is a poor comparison. I will cede that the 13" non-Retina pro is not very good price to performance wise. But we've been talking about the Retina and the Air the whole time.

 

And resolution. And SSD.

 

That Y40 is also on a massive discount.

The resolution 1400 by 900 at a base model.... 1080p (1920 by 1080) is better. And SSD may be slower but not by much and its double the capacity. No matter how fast the ssd is, you only got 128GB for the base model which can't do shit.

 

And even so, thats what great about Lenovo, they have discounts constantly to the point that it is essentially their MSRP. And Apple rarely has discounts so its still a fair comparison.

[Raid]

>All these people who don't know Enterprise will most likely be volume license only