8700k vs 2700x

[Bajantechnician]

Hey!

Im planning on building a new gaming/ workstation rig, and im not sure whether or not to go with a 8700K, or a 2700X. I will be using a ITX board alongside the chips, and I will be water-cooling them.
Thanks!

 

(editing videos, expiring pictures, cad, modeling, gaming (gta v, fallout 4(76 when that comes out)))

[Crunchy Dragon]

I personally would go for the 8700K for a gaming rig. It's also pretty good at workstation tasks.

[Daniel644]

what kind of "workstation" uses an ITX board?

that said the higher single thread performance gives the 8700k the edge in gaming but it gets beat in productivity work loads by the 2700x, the 2700x also doesn't require deliding to run decent (the 8700k is a hot freaking chip with that shitty TIM Intel used), the 8700k has little room to stretch it's legs due to it's operating temps "out of box"

[AnalogCanavity]

I would go with the 2700x since your doing workstation. I would create a poll

[Bajantechnician]

7 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I personally would go for the 8700K for a gaming rig. It's also pretty good at workstation tasks.

I was leaning more towards that, but the 2 extra cores (4 threads) on the 27000x though lol

5 minutes ago, Daniel644 said:

what kind of "workstation" uses an ITX board?

that said the higher single thread performance gives the 8700k the edge in gaming but it gets beat in productivity work loads by the 2700x, the 2700x also doesn't require deliding to run decent (the 8700k is a hot freaking chip with that shitty TIM Intel used), the 8700k has little room to stretch it's legs due to it's operating temps "out of box"

Ill be putting it in a shift x lol.

TIM isn't too hard to remove is it?

1 minute ago, Zic05 said:

I would go with the 2700x since your doing workstation. I would create a poll

Hmmm...

good idea haha

[Daniel644]

1 minute ago, Bajantechnician said:

TIM isn't too hard to remove is it?

 

it's the TIM between the CPU Die and the IHS so while it's easy to replace you have to get to it first, then you need to do a Liquid Metal instead of regular TIM to make it worth having done this and you are now another like $70 invested between the Delidding tool and the Liquid Metal and you no longer have a warranty on the CPU.

[grimreeper132]

What kind of workstation tasks you doing??? CAD, rendering, accounting??? Cause it depends for each one the answer you'll get, that includes programmes for the CAD one as well as optimisation for CPUs is different across the board

[bellabichon]

1 minute ago, Daniel644 said:

it's the TIM between the CPU Die and the IHS so while it's easy to replace you have to get to it first, then you need to do a Liquid Metal instead of regular TIM to make it worth having done this and you are now another like $70 invested between the Delidding tool and the Liquid Metal and you no longer have a warranty on the CPU.

Intel's TIM doesn't suck, it's just optimized for longevity over performance. I wish Intel would use a more enthusiast-grade TIM on their more enthusiast-grade products, but they haven't.

[dcgreen2k]

2 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

I was leaning more towards that, but the 2 extra cores (4 threads) on the 27000x though lol

Ill be putting it in a shift x lol.

TIM isn't too hard to remove is it?

Hmmm...

good idea haha

To replace the TIM, you need to delid the 8700K, which may end up destroying the processor if you do it incorrectly. If you do get the Ryzen CPU, I'd get a 2700 instead of the 2700X, and then just overclock it a bit, which should save you some money. The 2700 should be a lot easier to cool that the 8700K as well because it has a lower TDP and uses proper solder instead of regular thermal paste between the die and the heatspreader.

[Princess Luna]

It would certainly help for a serious suggestion if you said what you want to do with this computer as call it "workstation" and that's all is too abroad for correctly advising.

 

the i7 8700K is the superior product in a lot of "workstation" purposes.

[grimreeper132]

Just now, Daniel644 said:

it's the TIM between the CPU Die and the IHS so while it's easy to replace you have to get to it first, then you need to do a Liquid Metal instead of regular TIM to make it worth having done this and you are now another like $70 invested between the Delidding tool and the Liquid Metal and you no longer have a warranty on the CPU.

in other words for a work PC it's not recommended, cause it means you lose the support and warranty which can be really handy when it's for your job, for your own rig just for gaming go ahead but doing it on a work PC is the only time I would say don't

[Daniel644]

1 minute ago, grimreeper132 said:

in other words for a work PC it's not recommended, cause it means you lose the support and warranty which can be really handy when it's for your job, for your own rig just for gaming go ahead but doing it on a work PC is the only time I would say don't

yup, kinda like how I have an AIO with plans to go full custom loop on my Gaming Desktop but my Work Desktop is 100% air cooled.

[Bajantechnician]

2 minutes ago, Daniel644 said:

it's the TIM between the CPU Die and the IHS so while it's easy to replace you have to get to it first, then you need to do a Liquid Metal instead of regular TIM to make it worth having done this and you are now another like $70 invested between the Delidding tool and the Liquid Metal and you no longer have a warranty on the CPU.

Would MX4 be fine? If not, id have to go out and buy conductonaut

1 minute ago, bellabichon said:

Intel's TIM doesn't suck, it's just optimized for longevity over performance. I wish Intel would use a more enthusiast-grade TIM on their more enthusiast-grade products, but they haven't.

They solder the extreme series cpus, no?

1 minute ago, thegreengamers said:

To replace the TIM, you need to delid the 8700K, which may end up destroying the processor if you do it incorrectly. If you do get the Ryzen CPU, I'd get a 2700 instead of the 2700X, and then just overclock it a bit, which should save you some money. The 2700 should be a lot easier to cool that the 8700K as well because it has a lower TDP and uses proper solder instead of regular thermal paste between the die and the heatspreader.

I mean, I have the budget for the X series lol

1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

It would certainly help for a serious suggestion if you said what you want to do with this computer as call it "workstation" and that's all is too abroad for correctly advising.

 

the i7 8700K is the superior product in a lot of "workstation" purposes.

Completely true... sorry lol

rendering, exporting, modeling

 

1 minute ago, grimreeper132 said:

in other words for a work PC it's not recommended, cause it means you lose the support and warranty which can be really handy when it's for your job, for your own rig just for gaming go ahead but doing it on a work PC is the only time I would say don't

Its not for work since im a student, but ill be using the computer into college as well.

1 minute ago, grimreeper132 said:

What kind of workstation tasks you doing??? CAD, rendering, accounting??? Cause it depends for each one the answer you'll get, that includes programmes for the CAD one as well as optimisation for CPUs is different across the board

cad, (autodesk inventor, Maya) exporting vids, rendering.

That is a completely true point.

[Bajantechnician]

1 minute ago, Daniel644 said:

yup, kinda like how I have an AIO with plans to go full custom loop on my Gaming Desktop but my Work Desktop is 100% air cooled.

Yep, my current pc is all air cooled too lol

[Daniel644]

7 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

Would MX4 be fine? If not, id have to go out and buy conductonaut

They solder the extreme series cpus, no?

I mean, I have the budget for the X series lol

Completely true... sorry lol

rendering, exporting, modeling

 

Its not for work since im a student, but ill be using the computer into college as well.

cad, (autodesk inventor, Maya) exporting vids, rendering.

That is a completely true point.

MX4 would be better then stock but not even close to the level you get with Liquid Metal.

NO Intel hasn't Soldered shit in years on any CPU.

I think the X is the smatter buy for the second gen Ryzen, it was a bad buy on the first gen but the Second Gen does so well you are actually better off running the X at stock then overclocking the X or non-X from all the testing I've seen.

 

can't speak to Maya but the rending software in Autocad Architecture (2010 and 2012 that I use for work) is 100% CPU bound so the extra cores really help it, same with Video conversions.

[grimreeper132]

1 minute ago, Bajantechnician said:

cad, (autodesk inventor, Maya) exporting vids, rendering.

That is a completely true point.

rendering I believe the 2700X will be better as rendering (especially for images in inventor (don't know about maya haven't used it)) is easily split across all cores. Videos again the 2700X will be better cause again I believe it can be split up well as well. Gaming wise the 8700K is better but the 2700X isn't too far behind, and it's more a GPU than a CPU bottleneck that

[Daniel644]

1 minute ago, grimreeper132 said:

rendering I believe the 2700X will be better as rendering (especially for images in inventor (don't know about maya haven't used it)) is easily split across all cores. Videos again the 2700X will be better cause again I believe it can be split up well as well. Gaming wise the 8700K is better but the 2700X isn't too far behind, and it's more a GPU than a CPU bottleneck that

and if you are gaming at higher resolutions the difference drops even more.

[Princess Luna]

I would go with the i7 8700K because it's actually perfectly doable to have it at 5ghz without delidding if you have sufficient cooling... sure the whole mini-ITX tiny build can be an issue with that though I would personally go for a mATX build instead as its more balanced option.

 

the only thing you're getting more with the Ryzen nowadays is a bit of extra multi-tasking but all in all if you can just not have too much applications open at once the i7 will outperform all around now that it can iGPU accelerate:

See now the old "workstation favors Ryzen idea" no longer applies... the i7 8700K depending the application like Adobe here is matching even the behemoth Threadripper 1950X 16 cores / 32 threads.

In fact the mainstream platform now that it can purpose the iGPU at all seems even more attractive than HEDT in some ways... you are that typical high end user who wouldn't even need to bother yourself deciding if Intel already released the Z390 and 8c/16t i7 8790K coming later this year...

 

I do agree Intel is shit for these delays....

 

Any ways... from what I said I'd still go with the i7 8700K... but if you really want to know either it or the Ryzen 7 2700X both are excellent processors, nowadays the CPU market is by all means a HELL lot better than it was back in 2015/2016 and going wrong is much harder.

[Sakkura]

1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

the only thing you're getting more with the Ryzen nowadays is a bit of extra multi-tasking but all in all if you can just not have too much applications open at once the i7 will outperform all around now that it can iGPU accelerate:

See now the old "workstation favors Ryzen idea" no longer applies... the i7 8700K depending the application like Adobe here is matching even the behemoth Threadripper 1950X 16 cores / 32 threads.

In fact the mainstream platform now that it can purpose the iGPU at all seems even more attractive than HEDT in some ways... you are that typical high end user who wouldn't even need to bother yourself deciding if Intel already released the Z390 and 8c/16t i7 8790K coming later this year...

That graph is kinda useless for this discussion since it's not running on the CPU at all. It's not exactly a secret that GPU acceleration makes things faster... that's why it's called acceleration.

 

The iGPU performance is pretty irrelevant for a system with a dedicated GPU.

[Princess Luna]

2 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

The iGPU performance is pretty irrelevant for a system with a dedicated GPU.

You clearly didn't understand it then, the i7 8700K now can hardware accelerate using its iGPU ALONGSIDE CUDA Acceleration, it literally is giving a purpose to the before idle 'useless' iGPU increasing performance that wasn't there before, the graph above shows how significant this difference is.

[Daniel644]

1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

You clearly didn't understand it then, the i7 8700K now can hardware accelerate using its iGPU ALONGSIDE CUDA Acceleration, it literally is giving a purpose to the before idle 'useless' iGPU increasing performance that wasn't there before, the graph above shows how significant this difference is.

thats all well and good for things that can be GPU accelerated but from what i've seen with the Autodesk products I use their Rendering is CPU bound.

[Sakkura]

59 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

You clearly didn't understand it then, the i7 8700K now can hardware accelerate using its iGPU ALONGSIDE CUDA Acceleration, it literally is giving a purpose to the before idle 'useless' iGPU increasing performance that wasn't there before, the graph above shows how significant this difference is.

Read the graph. It says Software vs. Hardware. CUDA acceleration is hardware acceleration.

[Bajantechnician]

2 hours ago, Daniel644 said:

MX4 would be better then stock but not even close to the level you get with Liquid Metal.

NO Intel hasn't Soldered shit in years on any CPU.

I think the X is the smatter buy for the second gen Ryzen, it was a bad buy on the first gen but the Second Gen does so well you are actually better off running the X at stock then overclocking the X or non-X from all the testing I've seen.

 

can't speak to Maya but the rending software in Autocad Architecture (2010 and 2012 that I use for work) is 100% CPU bound so the extra cores really help it, same with Video conversions.

Ive never used liquid metal before lol

2 hours ago, grimreeper132 said:

rendering I believe the 2700X will be better as rendering (especially for images in inventor (don't know about maya haven't used it)) is easily split across all cores. Videos again the 2700X will be better cause again I believe it can be split up well as well. Gaming wise the 8700K is better but the 2700X isn't too far behind, and it's more a GPU than a CPU bottleneck that

How about being paired with e Vega 64 FE?

2 hours ago, Daniel644 said:

and if you are gaming at higher resolutions the difference drops even more.

I may go up to 1440p. editing videos or pictures will be on 4k

2 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

I would go with the i7 8700K because it's actually perfectly doable to have it at 5ghz without delidding if you have sufficient cooling... sure the whole mini-ITX tiny build can be an issue with that though I would personally go for a mATX build instead as its more balanced option.

 

the only thing you're getting more with the Ryzen nowadays is a bit of extra multi-tasking but all in all if you can just not have too much applications open at once the i7 will outperform all around now that it can iGPU accelerate:

 

See now the old "workstation favors Ryzen idea" no longer applies... the i7 8700K depending the application like Adobe here is matching even the behemoth Threadripper 1950X 16 cores / 32 threads.

In fact the mainstream platform now that it can purpose the iGPU at all seems even more attractive than HEDT in some ways... you are that typical high end user who wouldn't even need to bother yourself deciding if Intel already released the Z390 and 8c/16t i7 8790K coming later this year...

 

I do agree Intel is shit for these delays....

 

Any ways... from what I said I'd still go with the i7 8700K... but if you really want to know either it or the Ryzen 7 2700X both are excellent processors, nowadays the CPU market is by all means a HELL lot better than it was back in 2015/2016 and going wrong is much harder.

Would this integrated igpu only work during rendering or exporting?

2 hours ago, Sakkura said:

That graph is kinda useless for this discussion since it's not running on the CPU at all. It's not exactly a secret that GPU acceleration makes things faster... that's why it's called acceleration.

 

The iGPU performance is pretty irrelevant for a system with a dedicated GPU.

ill be getting a Vega fe or 64.

2 hours ago, Daniel644 said:

thats all well and good for things that can be GPU accelerated but from what i've seen with the Autodesk products I use their Rendering is CPU bound.

isn't there a way to do gpu hardware acceleration as well?

[grimreeper132]

1 minute ago, Bajantechnician said:

ill be getting a Vega fe or 64.

I am not sure about those cards vs Nvidea for rendering and CAD etc. but gaming nvidea is better (no other way of saying this) but it would work well enough, also depends on the price you can get those cards for as their prices are still inflated alot possibly up to or beyond 1080 ti pricing

 

[Daniel644]

40 minutes ago, Bajantechnician said:

isn't there a way to do gpu hardware acceleration as well?

I can't speak to Maya but in Autocad Architecture the GPU is used for the real time spinning around of the raw 3d model, I haven't seen any settings for GPU acceleration of the rendering, but Maya may be different, Autodesk does like to do different shit all the time, just look at how radically different Revit is from Autocad Architecture, they both have the same end goal but how you get this is like using a MAC vs using a PC.