Liquid Metal in a Laptop

[Ill_Float_Ur_Plane]

So i was wondering about doing up my laptop with liquid metal and found out that it is possible for the gallium and copper to kind of amalgamate over time and decrease the thermal performance of it. Does anyone have any experience with this?

[tikker]

4 minutes ago, Ill_Float_Ur_Plane said:

So i was wondering about doing up my lap[top with liquid metal and found out that it is possible for the gallium and copper to kind of amalgamate over time and decrease the thermal performance of it. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Gallium + aluminium will be really bad, but copper will just stain (forming a gallium-copper alloy), possibly reducing its performance a little bit over time, it being less conductive.

Not speaking from experience though, just going on science here.

[Ill_Float_Ur_Plane]

12 minutes ago, tikker said:

Gallium + aluminium will be really bad, but copper will just stain (forming a gallium-copper alloy), possibly reducing its performance a little bit over time, it being less conductive.

Not speaking from experience though, just going on science here.

Do you know if the reduction in performance would outweigh the gains from doing so in the first place?

[Syntaxvgm]

My post in the floatplane thread is about all I know. 

On 2/15/2018 at 3:51 PM, Syntaxvgm said:

The most important things were missed out on. 

 

This reacts with aluminum, but most IHS are nickel plated, therefore should be fine there. 

 

It also reacts with copper. 

This is very important for more a few reasons. What happens is in essence the copper absorbs the gallium over time. The hard residue from the compound it leaves is thermally conductive, but doesn't form evenly and therefore will eventually cause problem. This gallium copper alloy kinda thing will be a silver spot on the copper it was on. This isn't going to harm a copper plate, but a copper heat pipe...I don't know. Copper-gallium is a bit more brittle (and the heat capacity is a little lower?). I would avoid direct heatpipe contact until we know more, but it might be alright. Copper heat plates, including those on a waterblock, should be ok. 

 

This also means you will have to reapply fairly soon. It can be scraped off, cleaned, and reapplied. From my understanding the Cu-Ga metal on the heatsink will soak less and less gallium over time, as yah know..it's got gallium in it already. Makes sense right? I'm not a chemical fungineer. 

Anyway it seems that if you want to use this long term, you'll have to basically reapply until the copper has been....conditioned...into being the appropriate surface to not absorb gallium. 

So a labor of love if you want to do this to a laptop, rip it apart every time. I'm told as much as a year, as little as a couple of months. I'm not sure. I think temperature may play a factor here as I see more people claiming they had to do very quick reapplications on laptops, and I've heard that exposure to air affects this too. (So tight installations being key) 

 

This is not for the feint of heart or people that aren't willing to learn as they go. 

(this is also one of the many reasons, like the temperature range for storage, it currently isn't used by oems). If I were an oem, I'd simply use it to bait and switch showroom or review units that have to be returned for now. 

 

And for the love of all things holy make 100% sure it's not in contact with aluminum. Make 100% sure that IHS is nickel plated. Make sure that silver bottom on that heatsink is nickel. 

 

But anyway I understand detail omission in videos, but this one is a seriously dangerous thing with little education out about it yet, and for more reasons than the conductivity.  I'm seriously worried people are gonna start slapping it on things without thinking or further research. I think the solution is to do more liquid metal content in the future (experiment first) and present more of a guide on how to plan and care for it. Then pimp your guides out every time you make a small form factor build and apply liquid metal. 

Or you could just beg Louis Rossmann for forgiveness and sacrifice small animals in his honor. 

[AshleyAshes]

11 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

My post in the floatplane thread is about all I know. 

Considdering how disassembling an ENTIRE laptop, for many models, can cause minor damage, even if just tiny one of cracks or single snaps breaking, or something flexing the way it doesn't want to, creating a situation where you'd need to FREQUENTLY disassemble your entire laptop, this sounds like a terrible idea.  ...Unless your laptop is an easily serviceable model.

[Zodiark1593]

If only I had an old P4 pc and some time for testing.

[done12many2]

12 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Considdering how disassembling an ENTIRE laptop, for many models, can cause minor damage, even if just tiny one of cracks or single snaps breaking, or something flexing the way it doesn't want to, creating a situation where you'd need to FREQUENTLY disassemble your entire laptop, this sounds like a terrible idea.  ...Unless your laptop is an easily serviceable model.

 

Would agree.  I've applied liquid metal to my last two laptops.   One was a great deal of work, while my newest one (Clevo based) was an absolute joke as far as disassembly was concerned.  

 

@Ill_Float_Ur_Plane  Liquid metal did help a few degrees for both CPU (7700HQ) and GPU (1070), but it's not nearly as much of an improvement as it would be for delidding a desktop CPU or something like that.  In my case, a few degrees was worth the work, but just make sure that you factor that in before tearing things down.  

[porina]

I only LM'd my laptop following the vid here, so too early to say about long term effects. CPU temps went down nicely, but GPU temps didn't change.

[AndPeroty]

On a Macbook look as it is working very well!

[Syntaxvgm]

9 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

Considdering how disassembling an ENTIRE laptop, for many models, can cause minor damage, even if just tiny one of cracks or single snaps breaking, or something flexing the way it doesn't want to, creating a situation where you'd need to FREQUENTLY disassemble your entire laptop, this sounds like a terrible idea.  ...Unless your laptop is an easily serviceable model.

 

8 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

Would agree.  I've applied liquid metal to my last two laptops.   One was a great deal of work, while my newest one (Clevo based) was an absolute joke as far as disassembly was concerned.  

 

@Ill_Float_Ur_Plane  Liquid metal did help a few degrees for both CPU (7700HQ) and GPU (1070), but it's not nearly as much of an improvement as it would be for delidding a desktop CPU or something like that.  In my case, a few degrees was worth the work, but just make sure that you factor that in before tearing things down.  

since I used to repair laptops as most of my income once upon a time, I'm pretty confident I can repeatedly take apart anything and not damage it as long as there's no glue involved...BUT holy shit that would be annoying to do multiple times if you need to. Also I'd want to do it most with thin and light gaming laptops, which are the harder ones to take apart. 

Also the Clevo a joke- in what way? Easy or hard/cheapo? 

[done12many2]

11 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

 

since I used to repair laptops as most of my income once upon a time, I'm pretty confident I can repeatedly take apart anything and not damage it as long as there's no glue involved...BUT holy shit that would be annoying to do multiple times if you need to. Also I'd want to do it most with thin and light gaming laptops, which are the harder ones to take apart. 

Also the Clevo a joke- in what way? Easy or hard/cheapo? 

 

A joke as far as disassembly.  Everything from the lower panel to the heat pipes, hot plates and fans are very easy to remove and reinstall.  TIM or LM swap takes 30 to 45 minutes without ever having opened it for the first time.  Oh, and I added another M.2 while I was in there. 

 

Despite being very easy to take apart, the laptop is very solid when assembled.  Cooling is fantastic.