amd AMD being killed once again in laptops, this time by Dell.

[Froody129]

I know from talking to people who are buying laptops as a consumer that their entire spec decision is based on what the Intel sticker on the front says, and maybe the storage size. If they see AMD they think that it's an unknown brand and won't buy it.

 

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, Froody129 said:

I know from talking to people who are buying laptops as a consumer that their entire spec decision is based on what the Intel sticker on the front says, and maybe the storage size. If they see AMD they think that it's an unknown brand and won't buy it.

Yeah, this is a problem with AMD. Intel made themselves into a household name with their advertising. AMD has almost zero advertising and relies almost entirely on word of mouth outside of people in the industry.

[ket_maniac]

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Yeah, this is a problem with AMD. Intel made themselves into a household name with their advertising. AMD has almost zero advertising and relies almost entirely on word of mouth outside of people in the industry.

Bitter reality. And add to that BS products like this.

[ket_maniac]

Oh WOW! Don't expect many AMD chips in our products, says Dell

[AngryBeaver]

The problem is while AMD has recently closed the gap and is doing great in the price/performance sector... they are still no Intel. Intel chips perform better, work better with many environments especially in the workforce.

 

AMD had such a long stretch of being so far behind Intel that it will take a good while for that overall public opinion to change. They are currently in the race again, but not winning in either of their markets.

 

Now the 2200g and 2500g will be a really nice edition to the budget laptop market as it will give decent cpu and gpu performance at a low cost.

 

Now I personally have an 4th gen i7 laptop with just the egpu. I have it for doing work or having a pc when on the road. If I need something more for gaming, then I of course have my desktops for that. I think a lot of people are falling in to that niche... of a cheap laptop for general use and a desktop for gaming.

 

I mean even an i3 with an ssd that you can pick up for $250-400 is good at this.

 

Anyways I got off topic. I think once the new ryzen apu's hit the market they will start to grab more market share from people who need a budget laptop for gaming. That assuming that the new APU isn't too power hungry to be used at that level.

[ket_maniac]

Just now, AngryBeaver said:

The problem is while AMD has recently closed the gap and is doing great in the price/performance sector... they are still no Intel. Intel chips perform better, work better with many environments especially in the workforce.

 

AMD had such a long stretch of being so far behind Intel that it will take a good while for that overall public opinion to change. They are currently in the race again, but not winning in either of their markets.

 

Now the 2200g and 2500g will be a really nice edition to the budget laptop market as it will give decent cpu and gpu performance at a low cost.

 

Now I personally have an 4th gen i7 laptop with just the egpu. I have it for doing work or having a pc when on the road. If I need something more for gaming, then I of course have my desktops for that. I think a lot of people are falling in to that niche... of a cheap laptop for general use and a desktop for gaming.

 

I mean even an i3 with an ssd that you can pick up for $250-400 is good at this.

 

Anyways I got off topic. I think once the new ryzen apu's hit the market they will start to grab more market share from people who need a budget laptop for gaming. That assuming that the new APU isn't too power hungry to be used at that level.

If they hit the market like this, good luck to AMD gaining any market share. And yes I completely agree with the fact that you don't need high end products for day to day use. And Ryzen's success and its upcoming lineup are a testimony to AMD's performance. Intel does not simply work better unless you are pointing to those few extra fps in games. The average user doesn't need such numbers. The average user and AMD need companies going all out with marketing  and advertisements. 

[AngryBeaver]

1 minute ago, ket_maniac said:

If they hit the market like this, good luck to AMD gaining any market share. And yes I completely agree with the fact that you don't need high end products for day to day use. And Ryzen's success and its upcoming lineup are a testimony to AMD's performance. Intel does not simply work better unless you are pointing to those few extra fps in games. The average user doesn't need such numbers. The average user and AMD need companies going all out with marketing  and advertisements. 

I am referring to things like VM's. They also handle encoding and decoding tasks better. Intel supports 4k content from netflix for example and amd does not.

 

So these are areas that your average consumer might be affected in.

[ket_maniac]

I was thinking, why does AMD not approach Razer, Clevo ,Gigabyte or OEMs such as these? They have a much better chance of gaining popularity and market share from there instead of products such as this from Dell. Razer could very well make a Blade with the Ryzen 7 2700U.

[ket_maniac]

1 minute ago, AngryBeaver said:

I am referring to things like VM's. They also handle encoding and decoding tasks better. Intel supports 4k content from netflix for example and amd does not.

 

So these are areas that your average consumer might be affected in.

VM on laptops? As for desktops, I think Ryzen handles VMs waaaay better than any Core product. Encoding is better on AMD as well. Average user does not watch Netflix on 4K.

[AngryBeaver]

2 minutes ago, ket_maniac said:

I was thinking, why does AMD not approach Razer, Clevo ,Gigabyte or OEMs such as these? They have a much better chance of gaining popularity and market share from there instead of products such as this from Dell. Razer could very well make a Blade with the Ryzen 7 2700U.

The problem is like the article above from dell. They already have such diverse offerings from intel that there is little incentive to design and layout new machines using an AMD architecture. It just eats RnD time and throws money at something that might or might not have enough interest to make the investment worth it.

 

It becomes a game of profitability and risk. Right now Intel is the solid and safe choice. Amd is a gamble, they are doing better, but their market share is still low and the fate of adoption is unknown.

[AngryBeaver]

2 minutes ago, ket_maniac said:

VM on laptops? As for desktops, I think Ryzen handles VMs waaaay better than any Core product. Encoding is better on AMD as well. Average user does not watch Netflix on 4K.

This is false and yes VM on laptops. Students these days use VMs a good deal and so do a lot of home users or people working on their personal machine. There are performance penalties when using a VM on AMD (they aren't massive, but they do add up and these penalties don't exist on intel). Encoding also operates faster on Intel atm due to their larger feature sets.

[ket_maniac]

11 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

This is false and yes VM on laptops. Students these days use VMs a good deal and so do a lot of home users or people working on their personal machine. There are performance penalties when using a VM on AMD (they aren't massive, but they do add up and these penalties don't exist on intel). Encoding also operates faster on Intel atm due to their larger feature sets.

I think you are talking about workstation products as I don't see or have read the average i3 or i5 perform better in VMs with their low core count compared to Ryzen.

[ket_maniac]

15 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

The problem is like the article above from dell. They already have such diverse offerings from intel that there is little incentive to design and layout new machines using an AMD architecture. It just eats RnD time and throws money at something that might or might not have enough interest to make the investment worth it.

 

It becomes a game of profitability and risk. Right now Intel is the solid and safe choice. Amd is a gamble, they are doing better, but their market share is still low and the fate of adoption is unknown.

And you pay for this with lack of innovative products and refreshes each year with little to no improvements. I don't expect Dell do to anything remotely close to R&D with AMD, but companies like ASUS and Razer, these are the ones which drive the market forward and AMD should approach them. Asus already has a pretty good Ryzen laptop. Yes, its not the most portable laptop but neither is the Acer Triton or Predator 21X. Right now at this moment, the only 2 companies making worth it laptops are Asus and Acer.

[AngryBeaver]

4 minutes ago, ket_maniac said:

I think you are talking about workstation products as I don't see or have read the average i3 or i5 perform better in VMs with their low core count compared to Ryzen.

The problem with Ryzen and Vm's is the pci-e passthrough. So anything that uses pci-e lanes is reduced to about 20% performance. There are also other issues with how the infinity fabric interacts with them.. it is much the same as how it causes big gains when using fast ddr4 memory.. except in a virtual environment where hardware is isolated it causes issue and hurts performance.

[Guest The Viking]

47 minutes ago, ket_maniac said:

This is where people like Linus can help. I hope this gets to them as they have really good sources in the industry.

......this video is sponsored by intel! check out their extreme line-up of i9's on shintel.com and use code shilledlinus9 for 50% increase in price

[ket_maniac]

25 minutes ago, The Viking said:

......this video is sponsored by intel! check out their extreme line-up of i9's on shintel.com and use code shilledlinus9 for 50% increase in price

On linus' forums? For real my man? Linus has always been a performance guy and I think he is quite cool. Yes, there have been moments when I have disagreed with him but he is quite fine and his results are believable compared to some others.

[Guest The Viking]

2 hours ago, ket_maniac said:

On linus' forums? For real my man? Linus has always been a performance guy and I think he is quite cool. Yes, there have been moments when I have disagreed with him but he is quite fine and his results are believable compared to some others.

i don't know, he does say he likes amd's new products but at the end of the day, when you look at the amount of intel sponsored videos and few mistakes here and there, it just becomes weird.

 

I just doubt that even him or some other people calling out dell will change anything, the average customer is clueless about tech and will just either ask at the shop which model to get or get the cheapest one with the biggest numbers....

[genexis_x]

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for the new Ryzen performance mobile CPUs to compete with Intel H 45W CPUs

[kirashi]

6 hours ago, violentnumeric said:

No one except business people care about Dell and Intel will probably always have the IT idiots that work for big companies on their side. Dell makes shit laptops for the price, IMO.

6 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Crap doesn't just include spec. None of them are built to last. 

While you're not wrong that companies like Dell and Lenovo mostly market to the small to medium sized business owner and enterprise market, I can say with 100% certainty that Dell does not make shit laptops for the price - you just have to know what lineup to buy. Yes, I'm a biased XPS 15 owner, however, as someone who's been in the IT consulting industry for 10+ years, 5 of which were spent selling laptops, desktops, and other ... questionable consumer products, hear me out.

 

Dell started out decently in the late 90's / early 2000's to compete with Gateway, HP, and other manufacturers, and they were actually pretty solid machines for the price, at least on the desktop side. Then something happened between all the executives trading stocks, trying to maximize profits over such a short time between 2006-2012 ish that they stopped making quality products. Michael Dell bought out the share holders (yes, all of them) and took Dell private again in 2012 because he wasn't going to see greedy money hoarders drive his company into the ground.

 

Since 2012, Dell has released many quality laptop and desktop systems in both their consumer and business lineup, however, you indeed do need to know what you're buying as some of their models indeed suffer from what I call "best performance we could get into a piece of shit that cost us $200 to make" syndrome. All manufacturers have products like this by the way - not just Dell. That being said, Michael Dell has been able to turn things around and allow Dell to purchase EMC and VMware, two major enterprise providers of storage servers and virtualization products.

6 hours ago, ket_maniac said:

--SNIP-- Do they think the average user is an Idiot?

Like any manufacturer, yes, to a certain point. If you can market a product or service to someone who makes a purchasing decision without doing their research, you can sell literally anything. Try hard enough and you can even sell a bag of poop to the right person, and I'm not talking about those online websites that will send bags of petrified poop to your friends as a joke. This applies to any industry, from consumer electronics to healthcare and lifestyle products (MLM / pyramid schemes, anyone?) to used (or new) automobiles.

Of course, a manufacturer would never call any of their users idiots, but if they can sell you a phone with a profit margin of $250 and low specs instead of one with a profit margin of say $100 and better specs, of course they'll do it. They make more money up front, and you'll have to replace the phone sooner, which will make them even more money.

 

4 hours ago, ket_maniac said:

On linus' forums? For real my man? Linus has always been a performance guy and I think he is quite cool. Yes, there have been moments when I have disagreed with him but he is quite fine and his results are believable compared to some others.

Honestly, I too have never really had an issue with Linus' sponsored videos or the fact that lots of stuff is clearly sponsored by Intel since it's usually disclosed. The problem I have is with the benchmarking utilities that Intel uses to claim their results - almost all of them say they've been optimized for performance on an Intel CPU in the fine print. This creates biased test results, since no shit you're going to see higher numbers on a test optimized to run on certain hardware. Benchmarking creators need to optimize their testing for both AMD and Intel if they want me to take any of their results seriously, or straight up don't optimize their testing for either platform and leave it at that. Otherwise you're comparing apple's with orange's when you see AMD vs. Intel results side-by-side.

[Guest DeWat4]

To all of the 'Dell doesn't care about AMD' comments, lets not forget they're the ONLY MAJOR VENDOR with a Threadripper prebuilt.  

 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3197759/computers/amd-threadripper-exclusive-only-alienwares-area-51-will-have-it-in-2017.html

[ket_maniac]

2 hours ago, DeWat4 said:

To all of the 'Dell doesn't care about AMD' comments, lets not forget they're the ONLY MAJOR VENDOR with a Threadripper prebuilt.  

 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3197759/computers/amd-threadripper-exclusive-only-alienwares-area-51-will-have-it-in-2017.html

As if we all need a Threadripper prebuilt in our backpacks instead of decent laptops at 1/5th the price.

[ket_maniac]

4 hours ago, ZM Fong said:

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for the new Ryzen performance mobile CPUs to compete with Intel H 45W CPUs

Performance models haven't been released yet and OEMs are not utilizing AMD's configurable TDP at all. So right now, AMD's U series are competing with Intel's  U series only.

[Guest DeWat4]

23 hours ago, ket_maniac said:

As if we all need a Threadripper prebuilt in our backpacks instead of decent laptops at 1/5th the price.

Alienware has sales all the time on their laptops. I checked the pricing earlier and you can get a 15R3 with a 1070 for $1799 w/ their $200 off code, compared to a Clevo with the same specs for $1629.  IMO the Alienware is still the better deal; it has better build quality, it looks nicer, and it gets waaaayyyy better battery life. Dell's customer service is also leaps and bounds above Clevos.  

 

You also get full Thunderbolt 3, which is not found on the Clevo. You also have the option for the Alienware Graphics Amp, which is shown to be better than the Razer Core, and it only costs $200.

 

I'm not sure where you're finding evidence for your narrative about Alienware laptops being 5X higher in price than alternatives and not being good, but I'd be more than happy to take a look at what you find.  

[Imglidinhere]

On 3/6/2018 at 1:52 PM, ket_maniac said:

Dell’s Latest AMD Inspiron Laptops Are Crippled Compared With Intel Versions, just so they can keep licking Master Intel's boots

 

I hope this gets to Linus' eyes and all the other people in the industry, because BS like this is what keeps competition away and forces us to buy at higher prices and 5% generation improvements and dual core i5 laptops up until this year when Intel got kicked in their faces as well as bu*ts by Ryzen.

And just when AMD are trying to bring all the Ryzen goodness to laptops which is where the bulk of market share and revenue lies, Dell is once again showing it to all of us that anti-competitive and strategies like this is needed to keep Intel on top and increase sales. 

I have nothing to say. The article says it all.  And Ryzen Mobile is sure as hell not costlier than an i5. I hope people take notice of this stuff and bring it to the notice of one and all. It looks like history is trying to repeat itself and I kind of smell foul play here.

It's not Dell, it's Intel doing this. Look at their anti-competitive practices in the past regarding the older Opteron CPUs, which were substantially faster than anything Intel could muster until Core 2 was mainstream. It's absurd. Don't hate Dell, it's NOT their fault. Do your research before hating please.

[ket_maniac]

16 hours ago, DeWat4 said:

Alienware has sales all the time on their laptops. I checked the pricing earlier and you can get a 15R3 with a 1070 for $1799 w/ their $200 off code, compared to a Clevo with the same specs for $1629.  IMO the Alienware is still the better deal; it has better build quality, it looks nicer, and it gets waaaayyyy better battery life. Dell's customer service is also leaps and bounds above Clevos.  

 

You also get full Thunderbolt 3, which is not found on the Clevo. You also have the option for the Alienware Graphics Amp, which is shown to be better than the Razer Core, and it only costs $200.

 

I'm not sure where you're finding evidence for your narrative about Alienware laptops being 5X higher in price than alternatives and not being good, but I'd be more than happy to take a look at what you find.  

I don't know where you find me talking about Alienware laptops or their price considering the fact that you brought up the Area 51(a desktop) in the first place. The original post was about Dell's worthless new Ryzen laptops, not their desktops or their Alienware laptops.