Canada Health Care vs USA - Explain?

[Clanscorpia]

11 hours ago, JokerProduction said:

 

As others have said wait times are insane once you get past the GP level of healthcare.  Need a CT 6month wait minimum, Consult with a specialist 4months...  Go to the emergency room with something like a broken arm expect to be waiting 6hours on a good night.

 

When I broke my wrist and elbow I was in the hospital for 8 hours, and I had to come back because the idiot doctor forgot I told him my wrist was in pain and I couldnt move it, and even after I made them take an Xray, they still said it wasnt broken at all, and then I get a call with them telling me my scaphoid bone was broken and I needed to go back so I could get it immobilized. Then I paid 40 dollars for a brace I wore for a week before I got my cast, with a ridiculous week long wait which should have been 2-3 days. The doctors even sat in the ER while I waited an hour for my xrays which were literally on the screen. They really dont care and are extremely lazy in ERs here. When I had a severe case of poison ivy on my face it took them 6 hours to spend 5 minutes trying to tell me it was sunscreen (I knew it was poison ivy, I touched it that day), and gave me prednizone. During that time my face and neck could have swollen shut, but it wasnt immediately life treating so I had to wait a ridiculous amount of time. All around here the non life threatening care here is total crap, and I would much rather pay 20 dollars to get my care faster. 

[dalekphalm]

12 hours ago, JokerProduction said:

 

 

Most of those things are not covered in canada either.  Drugs are not free(unless they are administered by a nurse/doctor in the hospital) Prescriptions are just as expensive here hence why we still have health insurance companies, You will get billed for the ambulance ride,  Medical Equipment is outrageously expensive,  Work wants a doctors note? that will be another 85$, special forms filled out? 200$.  Dental is not even considered healthcare and is privatized up here and is so costly that some people can take a trip to the states to have the dental work and end it up being cheaper even with having to pay for the travel.

 

As others have said wait times are insane once you get past the GP level of healthcare.  Need a CT 6month wait minimum, Consult with a specialist 4months...  Go to the emergency room with something like a broken arm expect to be waiting 6hours on a good night.

 

The Canadian system sucks for those that need more care than a GP can provide but are not in an immediate life threatening situation.

 

 

So, as others have pointed out, each province is responsible for their own system, and what they choose to cover, varies.

 

Note: I live in Ontario, so I will be discussion the Ontario healthcare system specifically, and what is covered by OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan).

 

1. Prescription Drugs: The cost of the drugs themselves are quite low compared to the US, because Ontario uses group buying power to lower the costs. Other provinces do the same.

 

Additionally, if you are under 25, almost all prescription medication is now free (there's a specific list of what's covered, and it's a lot of stuff).

 

2. Ambulance: Ambulances cost $45 for Ontario residents. Out of province residents may pay more, but their own provincial healthcare will reimburse them. Non-residents will pay a lot, so... ya know... get travel insurance.

 

3. Medical equipment is quite expensive, but rarely do you need to buy your own.

 

4. Doctors Note: Usually $20-$30 in Ontario. Also: If your employer requires a doctors note? Fuck them, especially if it's for a cold or the flu. Some doctors offices are now sending the bill for the doctors note directly to the employer, because it encourages bad practices (such as forcing someone with a cold to go to a doctor, and expose everyone else in the waiting room to said cold).

 

5. Special forms - depends on the form.

 

6. Dental is not covered - and yes, that's definitely something that can be improved.

 

7. As you said, these wait times are for non-life threatening conditions. If you have cancer? You'll get a CT (or whatever other medical tests) within a few days or a week or so, and get treatment soon after.

 

It's a trade off, certainly.

 

Now, you can always buy private health insurance, to cover things like medical equipment, in-home care, dental, prescription drugs, etc. Many employers will provide coverage for free or for a very minimal fee.

 

For example: My insurance provided by my employer - I pay $5/pay for it, and I have unlimited, full coverage dental. As in, there is no cap. It goes off of the previous year price list, but prices generally only increase $1-2 per procedure every year (and sometimes not at all).

 

Obviously not everyone has as kickass complimentary insurance as I do. But the base system in Ontario is pretty damn good.

 

There's certainly room for improvement, but the US system needs way more improvement, unless you're rich.

[AshleyAshes]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

4. Doctors Note: Usually $20-$30 in Ontario. Also: If your employer requires a doctors note? Fuck them, especially if it's for a cold or the flu. Some doctors offices are now sending the bill for the doctors note directly to the employer, because it encourages bad practices (such as forcing someone with a cold to go to a doctor, and expose everyone else in the waiting room to said cold)

Actually, with the changes in the labor code in Ontario that took effect on Jan 1st, employers may no longer request doctors notes.

[Thermosman]

Single-payer healthcare FTW!

[dalekphalm]

16 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Actually, with the changes in the labor code in Ontario that took effect on Jan 1st, employers may no longer request doctors notes.

Oh Sick! I didn't even know that.

[AshleyAshes]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

Oh Sick! I didn't even know that.

You also got two PAID sick days if your employer didn't already offer those.

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

You also got two PAID sick days if your employer didn't already offer those.

Oh I get tons of paid sick days, so that's not really a concern for me. But that's good to know for especially retail and fast food workers.

[mr moose]

Come to Australia, even though it's only rated in the top 3 health systems I rate it number one.  Low income (healthcare card)  or ambulance members ($100 yearly fee) do not pay for ambulance Nationwide and no restrictions.    Hospital;s do not cost a cent,  drugs administered do not cost a cent,  Healthcare card recipients (low income) only pay $6.50 for prescription drugs.  Most doctors bulk bill (meaning no cost to patient) and for those who don't the patient gets $37.50 cash back from medicare. For specialists the cash back is $80.  and most scans, tests and day procedures (scopies) are free for the patient.

 

I can see my doctor, get a colonoscopy, have blood tests and a ctscan, back to my GP then into hospital for a procedure and it will cost me nothing.  After the procedure (like when I had my knee operated on) I had free physio until I was able to use it normally again. 

 

 

How much does it cost in tax?

Your average single person with no family has to earn more than $30K before they have to pay the levy which is 2%.  The average family income has to be above $40K.  It works out significantly cheaper than private health insurance but it covers everything. 

[MadyTehWolfie]

19 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

This isn't really a thing in Canada despite what a many American's would believe.  However there is a reality that those who are brain dead or otherwise have no meaningful hope of recovery can have funding for life support withdrawn.  Now, before you react to to this, the United States has these too but they go under a different name; "Insurance Companies".  I mean, seriously, do you think that private healthcare insurers are going to keep forking out the money for years and years on end to keep you as little more than the world's most expensive house plant because your family can't accept the inevitability of death?

Difference between Canada and the USA is you have the option to pay out of pocket to keep them on life support. In Canada nope government controls that. The above things like wait times ect are true. Reason why you people come to the USA. World < USA. Nough said.

[AshleyAshes]

4 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Difference between Canada and the USA is you have the option to pay out of pocket to keep them on life support. In Canada nope government controls that.

No, you can pay for private long term life support in Canada.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, AshleyAshes said:

No, you can pay for private long term life support in Canada.

Indeed, the only time the government (more specifically, doctors who petition) can step in and "pull the plug", is when that person is using OHIP. They are free to transfer the patient to private care, if they can afford to do it.

 

Just like in the US - the only difference being that it's the Canadian Government paying the bill, rather than an insurance company.

[AshleyAshes]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

Indeed, the only time the government (more specifically, doctors who petition) can step in and "pull the plug", is when that person is using OHIP. They are free to transfer the patient to private care, if they can afford to do it.

Though stories are few and far between.  First, obviously, there's the costs.  Even the United States doesn't actually have a lot of cases of individuals who suffer brain death but their bodies are physically stable enough to keep on life support indefinitely.  Organ failure most frequently comes in the following months.  And not to mention how many people, even if there was no cost, want to keep a family member as a vegetable.  I sure don't, my will has clear instructions to cease life support if meaningful recovery is improbable.

[Volbet]

Ambulance riees aren't free in Canada?

Man, the last time I was unlucky enough to have to ride an ambulance I got reimbursed the cost public transportation by the ambulance provider, since I had to go back to the place the ambulance had taken me from.

 

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Volbet said:

Ambulance riees aren't free in Canada?

Man, the last time I was unlucky enough to have to ride an ambulance I got reimbursed the cost public transportation by the ambulance provider, since I had to go back to the place the ambulance had taken me from.

 

Generally, no. Though the cost is HIGHLY subsidized (varies per province apparently), but it only costs $45 in Ontario, and you can be damn sure it costs the government a hell of a lot more than $45 to send an ambulance, and 2 (or 3) paramedics out to rescue someone.

[Volbet]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Generally, no. Though the cost is HIGHLY subsidized (varies per province apparently), but it only costs $45 in Ontario, and you can be damn sure it costs the government a hell of a lot more than $45 to send an ambulance, and 2 (or 3) paramedics out to rescue someone.

I just find it kinda odd that an ambulance ride can be charged to the patient, since the patient is rarely in a position where they can consent to a legal agreement.

If a person is unconscious can they really be held responsible for the cost of an ambulance ride?

 

Or is a charge only applied in situations where there is an obvious alternative to calling an ambulance?

[AshleyAshes]

1 minute ago, Volbet said:

I just find it kinda odd that an ambulance ride can be charged to the patient, since the patient is rarely in a position where they can consent to a legal agreement.

But... You're not unsettled by having people perform medical procedures upon those same people without their consent...?

 

3 minutes ago, Volbet said:

Or is a charge only applied in situations where there is an obvious alternative to calling an ambulance?

The opposite!  Most provinces will charge an alternate higher fee if it was deemed that transportation was not medically necessary.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Volbet said:

I just find it kinda odd that an ambulance ride can be charged to the patient, since the patient is rarely in a position where they can consent to a legal agreement.

If a person is unconscious can they really be held responsible for the cost of an ambulance ride?

 

Or is a charge only applied in situations where there is an obvious alternative to calling an ambulance?

Considering that there are low income programs that will waive or cover the ambulance fee, I don't really think it's too much of a concern.

 

If you cannot afford it, there are legal ways to not have to pay it.

 

And even if you do make decent money, you can arrange a "payment plan", or payment deferrals... not that one would really need to do so over $45. Either you're poor enough to not worry about the bill, or you can afford $45.

 

Here's a huge list of people who are exempted from the $45 fee:

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/publications/ohip/amb.aspx

 

Quote

the person receives benefits under the Ontario Works Act, the Ontario Disability Support Program Act or the Family Benefits Act;
the person receives provincial social assistance (general welfare assistance or family benefits);
the person is being transferred from one hospital or health care facility to another for insured, medically necessary treatment;
the person is receiving certain home care services approved for this exemption;
the person is living in one of the following facilities licensed or approved by the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care :
long-term care home
home for special care
home or residence for psychiatric patients

 

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, AshleyAshes said:

But... You're not unsettled by having people perform medical procedures upon those same people without their consent...?

 

The opposite!  Most provinces will charge an alternate higher fee if it was deemed that transportation was not medically necessary.

Indeed, @Volbet if a physician deemed the ambulance medically unnecessary, you have to pay $240 in Ontario.

 

And even that is still likely a subsidized cost.

[Volbet]

16 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

But... You're not unsettled by having people perform medical procedures upon those same people without their consent...?

How did you deduce my opinions and rational on that topic from anything I've said so far?

Ultimately, my opinion on that topic is completely irrelevant since it's not what was I was commenting on.

 

16 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

The opposite!  Most provinces will charge an alternate higher fee if it was deemed that transportation was not medically necessary.

Which is pretty much what I said.

 

[MadyTehWolfie]

41 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Though stories are few and far between.  First, obviously, there's the costs.  Even the United States doesn't actually have a lot of cases of individuals who suffer brain death but their bodies are physically stable enough to keep on life support indefinitely.  Organ failure most frequently comes in the following months.  And not to mention how many people, even if there was no cost, want to keep a family member as a vegetable.  I sure don't, my will has clear instructions to cease life support if meaningful recovery is improbable.

Wasnt talking about should someone keep them in life support just that they have a choice in if they wanted to pay for it. Rich people have spent more on lesser things. 

[AshleyAshes]

8 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Wasnt talking about should someone keep them in life support just that they have a choice in if they wanted to pay for it. Rich people have spent more on lesser things. 

I said exactly that.  That Canadians have the choice to pay for life support.  Your reading comprehension issues are your own problem, not mine.

[killcomic]

19 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Even $20 to visit the doctor seems insane to me, as a Canadian. I can go to any number of walk-in health clinics, and see a doctor within a few hours, with no appointment (often within as little as 20 minute wait), for zero out of pocket costs.

In Australia, there was a prime minister that tried to introduce a $5 co-payment to see a GP.

That's the reason he's now a FORMER prime minister.

[AshleyAshes]

6 minutes ago, killcomic said:

In Australia, there was a prime minister that tried to introduce a $5 co-payment to see a GP.

That's the reason he's now a FORMER prime minister.

Yeah, we see this in any country with single payer healthcare systems.  I think it's funny because while in America you have clear and numerous individuals on either side of the healthcare debate.  And those Americans who oppose single payer healthcare will usually cite all the 'problems' in nations with single payer healthcare. ...Meanwhile, in any country with single payer healthcare, if anyone tried to tear down those systems the electorate would burn the necessary government buildings to the ground.  You fill find nothing more than a tiny, insignificant minority of individuals who would oppose single payer healthcare in any country where they have it.  Oh sure, people will have lots of issues with the exact execution of those single payer systems but there's near zero momentum to dismantle those systems.  ...Meanwhile a surprisingly sizable portion of Americans, think that our single payer systems are some version of hell and that we dream of escaping it.  It's kinda funny.

[killcomic]

7 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Yeah, we see this in any country with single payer healthcare systems.  I think it's funny because while in America you have clear and numerous individuals on either side of the healthcare debate.  And those Americans who oppose single payer healthcare will usually cite all the 'problems' in nations with single payer healthcare. ...Meanwhile, in any country with single payer healthcare, if anyone tried to tear down those systems the electorate would burn the necessary government buildings to the ground.  You fill find nothing more than a tiny, insignificant minority of individuals who would oppose single payer healthcare in any country where they have it.  Oh sure, people will have lots of issues with the exact execution of those single payer systems but there's near zero momentum to dismantle those systems.  ...Meanwhile a surprisingly sizable portion of Americans, think that our single payer systems are some version of hell and that we dream of escaping it.  It's kinda funny.

Over 50 years of cold war propaganda will do that to a country.

Then again, if Americans were really unhappy with their system, they would do something about it.

[AshleyAshes]

1 minute ago, killcomic said:

Then again, if Americans were really unhappy with their system, they would do something about it.

I just find it funny how pre-occupied some of them are with wanting to do something about our systems.