iMac Pro Review – a PC Guy’s Perspective

[arnavvr]

5 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

You PC users and your temps. 80s is perfectly fine. Even 90s are good too. Most MacBooks I've owned get into the 100s and run well.

And the GPUs die. Apple has had multiple recalls for MacBook GPUs. They just get too damn hot. If they stopped worrying about not having any vents on the bottom, they could actually make some decent performing laptops.

[Nicnac]

36 minutes ago, Razor512 said:

It only took DRAM price fixing, and GPU price gouging at the retail store level to make the Mac seem competitively priced

 

 

haha kinda true but still, I believe even if corrected for once "normal" prices it would still be a competitive product (plus a little apple tax ya know...)

[Razor512]

35 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Besides, what's to upgrade? By the time the CPU gets too slow for most people to want an upgrade, you can't really upgrade it without buying a new system. And from where I worked, few people outside Mechanical Engineering need powerful graphics cards. Maybe a new hard drive could work, but most of the stuff at my company can be stored on the network and accessed from any computer on the network.

 

When it comes to smaller upgrades, they are useful for situations when there is a bottleneck in just 1 area. For example, If you have a core i9 based PC and a gtx 1080ti, but then a year or so layer, a video card maker makes a major breakthrough and and gets another similar performance boost like with the move from the 900 series to the 10000 series. Someone using davinci resolve where some of the effects are GPU limited, even with the fastest cards, you get delays due to a card like the 1080ti not being fast enough, then you will upgrade to a new videocard once you get the chance, as that can significantly speed up your workflow.

 

If you run a company would you give up hundreds of hours of productivity over the life of the system from a worker that you are paying $60+ an hour, because you only replace systems every 3 years and thus are unwilling to spend $400-500 on a new videocard?

 

From a business perspective, if a bottleneck to productivity and work output is caused by a hardware bottleneck that can fixed at minimal cost, then it is bad business to not take advantage of it.

[mrchow19910319]

12 hours ago, abazigal said:

 

the most objective opinion about apple in this forum. 

 

 

[mrchow19910319]

13 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

You PC users and your temps. 80s is perfectly fine. Even 90s are good too. Most MacBooks I've owned get into the 100s and run well.

let's not start a fight shall we? 

Spoiler

 

previously and currently owned apple product: 

 

ipod nano

iphone 4,5,6,SE

mac mini x2

macbook pro 2012 non retina

macbook pro 2017

 

 

[captain_to_fire]

I already posted this on Floatplane but I think it's important everyone knows well as Linus' clarification as to why Apple is using AMD Radeon GPUs instead of NVIDIA: Apple's own pro applications like Final Cut Pro X works better with Radeon GPUs. Don't even think for one moment that Apple is using Ryzen CPUs anytime soon because they lack two things that makes Apple's OS and applications do great:

• dedicated Quick Sync core for video encoding
• Thunderbolt 3

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mrchow19910319 said:

let's not start a fight shall we? 

  Hide contents

 

previously and currently owned apple product: 

 

ipod nano

iphone 4,5,6,SE

mac mini x2

macbook pro 2012 non retina

macbook pro 2017

 

 

I'm just saying if it doesn't thermal throttle no problems here.

 

1 hour ago, hey_yo_ said:

I already posted this on Floatplane but I think it's important everyone knows well as Linus' clarification as to why Apple is using AMD Radeon GPUs instead of NVIDIA: Apple's own pro applications like Final Cut Pro X works better with Radeon GPUs. Don't even think for one moment that Apple is using Ryzen CPUs anytime soon because they lack two things that makes Apple's OS and applications do great:

• dedicated Quick Sync core for video encoding
• Thunderbolt 3

They have a contract with Intel for the time being. With the price they are at i'm comfortable with sticking to Intel. Definitely big with Thunderbolt there since Apple was the main early adopter. One of the main reasons Apple adopted Intel in the first place was an employee managed to make OS X work on a pentium, maybe if he got it to work on a Athlon things would be different?

[captain_to_fire]

3 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

They have a contract with Intel for the time being. With the price they are at i'm comfortable with sticking to Intel. Definitely big with Thunderbolt there since Apple was the main early adopter. One of the main reasons Apple adopted Intel in the first place was an employee managed to make OS X work on a pentium, maybe if he got it to work on a Athlon things would be different?

Back when Steve Jobs was alive, Apple was actually considering AMD during the time they're ready to dump the PowerPC but Steve Jobs is more satisfied with Intel's road map and I think AMD can't keep up with Intel's demand so they've secretly made Mac OS X universal binary as demonstrated in a WWDC 2005 keynote where Jobs was using an iMac with Pentium 4 inside (poor choice of a processor) and a universal binary Mac OS X Tiger. 

Can the current macOS High Sierra run on a Ryzen processor (I cannot link the video here as it's a Hackintosh)? Yes it can as both Intel and AMD share the same x86/64 architecture but Apple's own applications like iMovie and FCP X are slow on a Ryzen processor because of the lack of Quick Sync. However, Intel is planning to open source TB3 just like what they did with USB 1 so I won't be surprised if in the next year or two, Apple will start selling Macs with Ryzen inside. Just imagine the possibilities with a Mac mini with Ryzen 2 + mobile Vega graphics as that could be a budget gaming PC (with Windows on Bootcamp) as long as Apple adds a better cooling solution than the iMac Pro.

[Razor512]

1 hour ago, hey_yo_ said:

I already posted this on Floatplane but I think it's important everyone knows well as Linus' clarification as to why Apple is using AMD Radeon GPUs instead of NVIDIA: Apple's own pro applications like Final Cut Pro X works better with Radeon GPUs. Don't even think for one moment that Apple is using Ryzen CPUs anytime soon because they lack two things that makes Apple's OS and applications do great:

• dedicated Quick Sync core for video encoding
• Thunderbolt 3

 

Why can't apple do a custom threadripper system where they focus on a smaller number of PCI express slots, and more on storage options

 

4 m.2slots, 2 PCI express X16 slots (wired for x16) 1 x4 slot and and the remaining lanes dedicated to other IO as well as a bunch of SATA ports and built in RAID controllers.

Then instead of pushing thunderbolt 3 accessories, they can instead push for accessories that can be installed within a full sized ATX case?

 

A full sized ATX case would also allow apple to give the system adequate cooling and open the door to potential overclocking.

 

For a pro system, they could work on implementing a RAID 0+1 setup out of 1TB Samsung 960 pro SSDs, and then a RAID 1 with 2, 2TB Samsung 850 evo SSDs, and then followed by a RAID 5 of 3x 8TB WD red hard drives.

 

That can be paired with 2 GTX 1880ti cards in SLI to make for a good mac system that is focused on self contained video editing.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

-snip-

The programmer put his story online somewhere about the switch. Probably a factor of convenience (he was was already running it on a pentium and was asked to further develop it) and better availability. You can run a hackintosh system with AMD for some time now, even a s754 can run 10.5 pretty well, but there is a bit more setup required (not that Apple can't do it of course). I just don't see Apple switching for the next 4-5 years or so.

Also I think this has been the first time a Mac Mini has been slated as a "budget gaming pc" :). Its a lovely thought because the form factor is really nice and slim. It would make an absolute solid HTPC as well. We are definitely going to see more Vega devices from Apple - i'm especially excited about the MacBook Pros getting Vega.
 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Razor512 said:

 

Why can't apple do a custom threadripper system where they focus on a smaller number of PCI express slots, and more on storage options

 

4 m.2slots, 2 PCI express X16 slots (wired for x16) 1 x4 slot and and the remaining lanes dedicated to other IO as well as a bunch of SATA ports and built in RAID controllers.

Then instead of pushing thunderbolt 3 accessories, they can instead push for accessories that can be installed within a full sized ATX case?

 

A full sized ATX case would also allow apple to give the system adequate cooling and open the door to potential overclocking.

 

For a pro system, they could work on implementing a RAID 0+1 setup out of 1TB Samsung 960 pro SSDs, and then a RAID 1 with 2, 2TB Samsung 850 evo SSDs, and then followed by a RAID 5 of 3x 8TB WD red hard drives.

 

That can be paired with 2 GTX 1880ti cards in SLI to make for a good mac system that is focused on self contained video editing.

Apple products aren't for the enthusiast market. The iMac Pro does have adequate cooling, and overclocking has never been a priority for Apple as its very locked down (and should continue to do so). For what they are meant to do, most Macs are fine as they are.

 

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, Razor512 said:

 

Why can't apple do a custom threadripper system where they focus on a smaller number of PCI express slots, and more on storage options

 

4 m.2slots, 2 PCI express X16 slots (wired for x16) 1 x4 slot and and the remaining lanes dedicated to other IO as well as a bunch of SATA ports and built in RAID controllers.

Then instead of pushing thunderbolt 3 accessories, they can instead push for accessories that can be installed within a full sized ATX case?

 

A full sized ATX case would also allow apple to give the system adequate cooling and open the door to potential overclocking.

 

For a pro system, they could work on implementing a RAID 0+1 setup out of 1TB Samsung 960 pro SSDs, and then a RAID 1 with 2, 2TB Samsung 850 evo SSDs, and then followed by a RAID 5 of 3x 8TB WD red hard drives.

 

That can be paired with 2 GTX 1880ti cards in SLI to make for a good mac system that is focused on self contained video editing.

I think the threadripper CPU is more of a prosumer thing which sits in between a gaming CPU and an enterprise CPU. It would have been better if you said what's stopping Apple from using AMD Epyc which is a direct competitor of Intel's Xeon. Rumor has it that Apple is killing the trash can 2013 Mac Pro design in favor of a modular one. I would love to see a Mac Pro that is liquid cooled. I think the choice of RAID0 for the 2 NVMe SSDs on the 2017 iMac Pro is a bad one when it comes to reliability alone. I don't think Apple is going to use NVIDIA GPUs anytime soon. Years ago however, the Mac Pro was actually modular, uses an ATX case and some parts can be upgraded like graphics cards, storage and memory.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090930222001/http://www.apple.com/macpro/design.html#expansion

2 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Also I think this has been the first time a Mac Mini has been slated as a "budget gaming pc" :). Its a lovely thought because the form factor is really nice and slim. It would make an absolute solid HTPC as well. We are definitely going to see more Vega devices from Apple - i'm especially excited about the MacBook Pros getting Vega.

Personally I consider the Mac mini as the perfect HTPC especially if a lot of your content is on iTunes and a good reason not to buy the Apple TV 4K. 

[Shutter]

They should try “SMC fan control” to rev up the fans to prevent thermal throttling. I’ve used it with my macs for years to kick the fans up and keep my system from over heating while I transcode footage in a tent in the summer.  

 

SMC Fan Control

 

Hows about testing that out and giving us an update on thermal throttling.

[Shutter]

15 hours ago, Nicnac said:

haha kinda true but still, I believe even if corrected for once "normal" prices it would still be a competitive product (plus a little apple tax ya know...)

Ya know most of the time Apple is competitively priced when I hey release a product. The problem is they don’t drop prices at the same rate PC component makers do.  Also, few people buy macs for the hardware.  We tolerate the hardware to get access to the operating system. I used to mock Apple like crazy.  Then I was forced to buy one to work in the film industry.  Once I got a hang of it I started to love it. I love that it’s more stable than any pc I’ve built. I love that it’s based on Unix. I love that python comes preloaded. I love that I can send and recieve text messages from my computer.   For a daily driver I’m all in on Mac now.  But luckily I also built a personal personal computer. I use it for games/VR and a home file server.  One day when Mac gets back PCI-e slots, I can use one machine for both, using boot camp.

[Nicnac]

12 hours ago, Shutter said:

Ya know most of the time Apple is competitively priced when I hey release a product. The problem is they don’t drop prices at the same rate PC component makers do.  Also, few people buy macs for the hardware.  We tolerate the hardware to get access to the operating system. I used to mock Apple like crazy.  Then I was forced to buy one to work in the film industry.  Once I got a hang of it I started to love it. I love that it’s more stable than any pc I’ve built. I love that it’s based on Unix. I love that python comes preloaded. I love that I can send and recieve text messages from my computer.   For a daily driver I’m all in on Mac now.  But luckily I also built a personal personal computer. I use it for games/VR and a home file server.  One day when Mac gets back PCI-e slots, I can use one machine for both, using boot camp.

amen brother. Been using my mbp for 6 years now and it's still going strong. Good OS can make up for a lot of hardware limitations. I used to get slow downs on my mbp but somehow they fixed performance in el capitan. Dunno why but it's so much faster suddenly and still feels like new.

[kirashi]

On 1/30/2018 at 1:08 AM, aiu2 said:

Look at this biuld

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

Link goes to an empty PCPartPicker list...

20 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

I'm just saying if it doesn't thermal throttle no problems here.

Um, but they do thermal throttle...? I have yet to use a single thin-and-light laptop using an HQ SKU CPU that doesn't thermal throttle under 100% load after 20+ minutes when running in ambient room temps around 20 Celsius. Not arguing they can fix this at the moment - it's a hot CPU running at maximum load in a really confined space, so I expect it to throttle a bit, but it's still a problem that we need to address if we ever want to surpass the ~5GHz temperature bottleneck for CPUs running under normal cooling conditions.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Um, but they do thermal throttle...? I have yet to use a single thin-and-light laptop using an HQ SKU CPU that doesn't thermal throttle under 100% load after 20+ minutes when running in ambient room temps around 20 Celsius. Not arguing they can fix this at the moment - it's a hot CPU running at maximum load in a really confined space, so I expect it to throttle a bit, but it's still a problem that we need to address if we ever want to surpass the ~5GHz temperature bottleneck for CPUs running under normal cooling conditions.

I've never noticed thermal throttling. Macs are more about form factor than sheer power anyway. If you need 5GHz in a laptop or quite beefy power then Apple isn't quite for you.

[mrchow19910319]

On 31/01/2018 at 5:08 PM, Shutter said:

Ya know most of the time Apple is competitively priced when I hey release a product. The problem is they don’t drop prices at the same rate PC component makers do.  Also, few people buy macs for the hardware.  We tolerate the hardware to get access to the operating system. I used to mock Apple like crazy.  Then I was forced to buy one to work in the film industry.  Once I got a hang of it I started to love it. I love that it’s more stable than any pc I’ve built. I love that it’s based on Unix. I love that python comes preloaded. I love that I can send and recieve text messages from my computer.   For a daily driver I’m all in on Mac now.  But luckily I also built a personal personal computer. I use it for games/VR and a home file server.  One day when Mac gets back PCI-e slots, I can use one machine for both, using boot camp.

yeah,. you wouldn't believe the amount of people post on r/apple that start with sth like this: 

 

:"used to hate apple cos everything they make is too expensive, now look at me-- (1 mbp, 2beats, 2 magic tracpad, 2 apple keyboard, one imac)"

[mrchow19910319]

I think Linus's title : "A PC GUY's perspective" is just as annoying as "IM A MAC PERSON AND A APPLE FANBOY". 

 

If you can give out un-biased review like this one, don't name yourself so others think that you are biased. 

 

 

[LienusLateTips]

Best video in a long time imho