PC Perspective accused of violating journalistic ethics *Update 2 with PCPer reply*

[Senzelian]

21 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You can live in your nihilist world if you want - but I prefer not to.

Nice standards.

[Hecate91]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Holy shit, that guy sure loves sucking his own dick. How anything can think anything good about him is truly astonishing. 

 

Good to see that Adored finally came to his senses and started acting like an adult. If only he had done this to begin with... But then he couldn't make money by causing drama which he loves doing oh so much. 

 

I really dislike his tone though. He is "putting the video on private for now"? That sounds like a threat to post it again if PCPer does something he does not like even though the issues were resolved. 

All of AdoredTV's twitter threats makes them seem unprofessional,immature,and full of themselves arrogant. Yet no one is questioning AdoredTV's ethics of spreading misinformation  also while using the video itself as a threat by taking it down and re-uploading it,not to mention their clear bias for AMD,to the point you'd think they're being paid by AMD.

One of AdoredTV's Twitter posts states " Let me be clear once again. DO NOT attack PC Perspective. Civility is what puts you ahead of the rest." He tweets this after he removed the video and some of his fans who can't act like adults either already posted slandering comments all over PCper's twitter and most of their recent Youtube vids.

 

I get that some clickbait is needed to generate views on Youtube,however the degree of extreme clickbait titles, brand bias, and narrative spinning they use is astonishing to me why people credit him over PCper who has been been used as a source by other channels such as Gamers Nexus,who is one of the most honest tech Youtubers around. AdoredTV also promised to do a video on the RX560 rebrand downgrade,which still hasn't come because he'd have to say anything negative of AMD.

[dalekphalm]

13 minutes ago, Hecate91 said:

All of AdoredTV's twitter threats makes them seem unprofessional,immature,and full of themselves arrogant. Yet no one is questioning AdoredTV's ethics of spreading misinformation  also while using the video itself as a threat by taking it down and re-uploading it,not to mention their clear bias for AMD,to the point you'd think they're being paid by AMD.

One of AdoredTV's Twitter posts states " Let me be clear once again. DO NOT attack PC Perspective. Civility is what puts you ahead of the rest." He tweets this after he removed the video and his fans who can't act like adults either already posted slandering comments all over PCper's twitter and most of their recent Youtube vids.

 

I get that some clickbait is needed to generate views on Youtube,however the degree of extreme clickbait titles, brand bias, and narrative spinning they use is astonishing to me why people credit him over PCper who has been been used as a source by other channels such as Gamers Nexus,which is one of the most honest tech Youtubers around. AdoredTV also promised to do a video on the RX560 rebrand downgrade,which still hasn't come because he'd have to say anything negative of AMD.

In this particular case, what misinformation is he spreading? To be fair: There's no proof that Intel paid for the Review itself. Nor is there any proof that this affected the outcome of the review.

 

A quality brand, such as PCPer, can still commit unethical actions - likely due to ignorance or accident.

[acbluflame]

A bit surprised by some vets here that normally have upstanding and thoughtful posts.

23 hours ago, LAwLz said:

3) Adored is one of the worst tech-youtubers I can think of. The guy is extremely biased and has built his entire channel based on causing drama between him and other reviewers, and sucking AMD's dick. This is not the first time he accused/implies that reviewers are biased. I legitimately don't know if I should laugh or cry at the people who think he is a valid source of information. He is the Keemstar of the tech world.

4) Adored is throwing rocks in his glass house. He did not even attempt to talk to PCPer before attacking them and siccing his rabid fanboys on them. Wanna talk about ethics? Maybe you should make sure you aren't an unethical fucktard before accusing others.

 

 

What should Adored have done? He should have contacted PCPer in a calm and nice manner, asking them to put in disclaimers in their review. That way the issue could have been corrected without causing a bunch of drama.

18 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Oh sorry, I forgot that he made one or two videos where he said some slightly negative things about AMD GPUs. You know, that video he made between ranting about how Nvidia are ruining the entire industry and how all other reviewers except him don't understand how to benchmark the glorious AMD GPUs. Clearly only he with his extreme cherry picking skills knows how to present "real" evidence of how good AMD are.

 

You can be an extremely biased fanboy and still say some negative things about the company you deep-throat on a regular basis.

 

 

Credit where credit is due. Adored made the right thing in taking the video down for now. Sadly, the damage might already be done.

I also think it's weird/scummy that he only posted it to his patrons. He should have put up a video on his channel so that everyone could see it.

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Holy shit, that guy sure loves sucking his own dick. How anything can think anything good about him is truly astonishing. 

 

Good to see that Adored finally came to his senses and started acting like an adult. If only he had done this to begin with... But then he couldn't make money by causing drama which he loves doing oh so much. 

 

I really dislike his tone though. He is "putting the video on private for now"? That sounds like a threat to post it again if PCPer does something he does not like even though the issues were resolved. 

 

I haven't heard of AdoredTV before this topic, but you really do seem have a chip on your shoulder.  You appear to be caught up in a continuous flow of ad-hominem diarrhoea that's unbecoming of an "adult".  Why don't you post about it some more.

 

Frankly, this situation seems fairly cut and dried with a few side quirks IMO.

1. Conflict of interest - Allyn Malventano produces a review of the Intel Optane drive.  Intel pays Shrout Research (that employs Allyn Malventano) to produce a white paper on the aforementioned drive - alarm bells should be ringing regardless of the outcome of the paper.  Systematically, this should have been nipped in the butt before any writing took place.
2. Publicised - AdoredTV shines light on the glaring omission of any disclaimer of point 1.
3. Morality - AdoredTV should have given PCPer a chance to rectify this on the off-chance this was an honest mistake.  Indeed, he may have posted the video knowing full-well that he should have contacted PCPer beforehand -  there could have been an ulterior motive, but this is tin-foil hat territory hearsay at best.  He recognised/admitted his mistake, and hid the damning video during talks, so I'm willing to say he had the better of intentions here.
4. Hindsight - the lack of disclaimer could either be:
   • an honest fault or oversight;
   • lack of integrity or thought-out journalistic processes within PCPer
5. Clawback of integrity - PCPer has since stuck a disclaimer on the last page of an eleven page article.  I would've missed it to be honest.  Morally, I would've expected them to be confident or willing to show that they made an honest mistake and place this at the start of the first article, i.e. go above and beyond normal practices.  They have instead actioned the bare minimum to cover their ass, and as such I lean towards the latter bullet point in point 5.
6. Aftermath - if/when PCPer decides to create PR about this, I'd be willing to draw a line depending on its sincerity.

 

[Derangel]

3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

So the Disclaimer is finally up on the review.

 

Unfortunately, it's at the very bottom, where I suspect that many people will not even see it. But hey, at least it's there. Ideally it would be the first thing you read at the start of the review.

 

To me, this is an acceptable compromise between the two parties. Note: I said acceptable. It's not the ideal outcome, which is impossible (can't travel back in time: ideal outcome is that Allyn would have recused himself as per conflict of interest, and another PCPer employee would test the product and write the review).

 

Hopefully in the future, PCPer takes disclaimers more seriously, and also potential conflicts of interest, and proactively works to avoid situations like this.

 

All in all, I'm satisfied with the outcome, though there was a lot of drama bullshit (on both sides) that went with it.

I wouldn't call it acceptable. They are still neglecting to mention that Allyn, the reviewer, wrote the whitepaper. That is a huge point for them to ignore. Making that disclaimer and not mentioning Allyn's personal involvement makes it seem like they're trying to hide that fact.

[dalekphalm]

10 minutes ago, Derangel said:

I wouldn't call it acceptable. They are still neglecting to mention that Allyn, the reviewer, wrote the whitepaper. That is a huge point for them to ignore. Making that disclaimer and not mentioning Allyn's personal involvement makes it seem like they're trying to hide that fact.

Hmm - you know, you're right.

 

It definitely still feels unethical to me that they aren't clear that Allyn wrote the white paper - a commissioned and paid for work by Intel.

[cj09beira]

its seems to me like part of the confusion here might be people not that a white paper is a marketing tool made with the intent to sell your product and show it in the best light possible.

3 hours ago, Hecate91 said:

All of AdoredTV's twitter threats makes them seem unprofessional,immature,and full of themselves arrogant. Yet no one is questioning AdoredTV's ethics of spreading misinformation  also while using the video itself as a threat by taking it down and re-uploading it,not to mention their clear bias for AMD,to the point you'd think they're being paid by AMD.

One of AdoredTV's Twitter posts states " Let me be clear once again. DO NOT attack PC Perspective. Civility is what puts you ahead of the rest." He tweets this after he removed the video and some of his fans who can't act like adults either already posted slandering comments all over PCper's twitter and most of their recent Youtube vids.

 

I get that some clickbait is needed to generate views on Youtube,however the degree of extreme clickbait titles, brand bias, and narrative spinning they use is astonishing to me why people credit him over PCper who has been been used as a source by other channels such as Gamers Nexus,who is one of the most honest tech Youtubers around. AdoredTV also promised to do a video on the RX560 rebrand downgrade,which still hasn't come because he'd have to say anything negative of AMD.

go back a few pages there is already a post showing you at least 5 video mad by him very critical of amd, does he prefer amd to nvidea 100%, does he avoid talking about their problems and errors, no he doesn't.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, acbluflame said:

I haven't heard of AdoredTV before this topic, but you really do seem have a chip on your shoulder.  You appear to be caught up in a continuous flow of ad-hominem diarrhoea that's unbecoming of an "adult".  Why don't you post about it some more.

Oh yeah I absolutely hate AdoredTV. I genuinely think the world would be a better place if his channel got shut down. He is the tech equivalence of KeemStar.

Anyway, not a fan that you cut out the parts of my posts where I criticized PCPer and only quoted the ones where I criticize Adored. You didn't quote the parts where I gave credit to Adored either. That's not a very nice thing to do because it makes my posts seem very one sided.

 

I actually agree with almost everything you said in your post, and if you go through my other posts you will see that I have said similar things as well.

 

It was bad of PCPer to not disclose it. It's good that they have corrected it (although they really should put it on the first page rather than the last).

It was bad of Adored to attack them before contacting them. It's good that the video is no longer up.

[acbluflame]

9 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Oh yeah I absolutely hate AdoredTV. I genuinely think the world would be a better place if his channel got shut down. He is the tech equivalence of KeemStar.

Anyway, not a fan that you cut out the parts of my posts where I criticized PCPer and only quoted the ones where I criticize Adored. You didn't quote the parts where I gave credit to Adored either. That's not a very nice thing to do because it makes my posts seem very one sided.

 

I actually agree with almost everything you said in your post, and if you go through my other posts you will see that I have said similar things as well.

 

It was bad of PCPer to not disclose it. It's good that they have corrected it (although they really should put it on the first page rather than the last).

It was bad of Adored to attack them before contacting them. It's good that the video is no longer up.

This is getting a bit meta, but you have three posts in this discussion, therefore three quotes.  I've only cut points 1 & 2 from your first post because I focussed on AdoredTV and your apparent dislike for him/them.  Nothing else has been touched.  I never cut the 'credit' portion of the second post - you'll see that it is there in the quote, so that's false.  Other than that, the rest of your content is filled with AdoredTV.  Remember that this topic is regarding PCPer's mistake, however you chose to spend your time (and draw attention) commenting on this chap (and now I'm doing it, heaven forbid).

Normally you post down-to-earth and accurate posts without any of the fluff nonsense, so I was a bit surprised, but ultimately glad we are in agreement.

 

Regardless, think we've exhausted this line of discussion.  I'm still holding my breath that a consistently high-standard publication like PCPer will comment on this.

[5minutelurker]

59 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Oh yeah I absolutely hate AdoredTV. I genuinely think the world would be a better place if his channel got shut down. He is the tech equivalence of KeemStar.

Now I'm curious. What did he do to piss you off? It's not like he doxxed anyone so I don't see how he's as bad as Keemstar. Yeah he rides AMD's dick, but name someone who doesn't ride Intel's or nVidia's. So long as there's balance across the whole spectrum of tech news, who cares if he leans red or blue? Would you rather he give the veneer of impartiality, acting like he has no bias whatsoever and what he says is objectively fact?

[LAwLz]

9 minutes ago, 5minutelurker said:

What did he do to piss you off?

Cherry pick and misinterpret things.

Does wild speculations which his viewers seem to think are facts which then gets repeated over and over.

His entire channel is focused on creating drama. Not just between reviewers (this is not the first time he talks about how other reviewers are bad) but also all his videos about how Intel and Nvidia are horrible companies all the time (which are often based on the first two issues I have with him).

 

11 minutes ago, 5minutelurker said:

Yeah he rides AMD's dick, but name someone who doesn't ride Intel's or nVidia's.

I genuinely don't think most reviewers are Intel and Nvidia biased. It is simply the case that Nvidia and Intel often make better products than AMD. Which isn't exactly a surprise when you look at things such as R&D budgets.

 

12 minutes ago, 5minutelurker said:

So long as there's balance across the whole spectrum of tech news, who cares if he leans red or blue?

That is completely the wrong way of looking at things. Like I already said, I don't think there is some conspiracy where reviewers are trying to make AMD look bad while simultaneously making Nvidia and Intel look good. But even if that was the case, you don't create "balance" by going to the other extreme.

I know this is a crazy idea these days but you don't create a good and healthy environment by fighting one extreme with another. You don't create "balance" by going "oh they posted a positive review so therefore I must post a negative one!". Also, who is to say that there needs to be "balance"? Maybe one side is objectively more correct than the other one.

 

18 minutes ago, 5minutelurker said:

Would you rather he give the veneer of impartiality, acting like he has no bias whatsoever and what he says is objectively fact?

Well people already seem to think he is unbiased, judging by several replies in this thread. I am not sure if that's laughable or depressing. So it seems like he already comes off as impartial to some people. Not sure if I should blame his viewers or him for that though.

[5minutelurker]

I see where you're coming from, but is giving a dissenting opinion really 'creating drama'? Intel and nVidia aren't horrible companies, they just have a long history of anticompetitive shit, like pretty much any top business. It happens all the time. Foxconn's in trouble right now for bribing Apple to use their chips rather than Intel's. I'm not saying it's good, but you don't get to the top through hard work alone. There were times when the positions of Intel/nVidia and AMD were completely reversed. Given what we know about these companies and what's in their best interests, his speculations seem pretty grounded, especially from a business perspective.
 

I don’t think people think he’s unbiased. I'm biased, you're biased, people reviewing tech are biased. However, I think tech journalism is biased towards Intel and Nvidia precisely because they're currently putting out the better products. Nothing wrong with that. The better product deserves more more coverage. If you want unbiased, then you'd have to give an inferior product equal screen time to a superior one. 

 

The 'market' of tech journalism is self-correcting. If the combined weight of 10 million subbed channels say 'Intel's great', and one dissenting channel with 60k subs says 'no they're not', the market leans heavily in Intel's favour. No conspiracy here. Having that dissenting view encourages discussion without forcing equal outcome solutions like 50/50 screen time on every review.

 

I think people like him for two reasons: one, he goes into detail about the issues of products that get blanket praise. The press for Coffee Lake has been very positive, while Ryzen’s was ‘great, just not for gaming’. I usually watch Digital Foundry. They, like everyone else made the 8700K look like some unstoppable beast that shreds i9s. However, Adored gave another prospective to them which, while not a dealbreaker to me, is something I don't think anyone else has looked at.

 

Two, he backs up his points with primary sources. Take what you said about R&D. I used to think that’s where Intel and nVidia had the advantage over AMD. Hire the best engineers to make the best products to earn the most money to hire the best engineers. But his previous video has a video (primary source) of Jensen Huang, nVidia CEO, admitting nVidia sells GPUs to gamers to fund R&D for AI and cars.

 

I also think it would be counterproductive for him to 'go soft' on Intel or nVidia. He didn't get to where he is by toeing the line. Besides attacks on other YTs, which I don't know too much about as I don't use Twitter, I honestly think if he behaved the way you suggested, he'd lose popularity instantly and be seen as just another tech channel. 

Imagine he starts using weasel words like 'nVidia's great, but...' It just sounds like more praise. He'd get drowned out by the big boys like Digital Foundry saying almost the exact same thing, so why visit him? Sure, he could be more cordial, more gentlemanly when criticising other YTers, but when you're calling somebody out or telling them they're wrong, there's only so much you can sugar coat. It's going to be uncomfortable. I don't think a good and healthy environment is one where everyone agrees and anyone who disputes the narrative is creating drama.

[mr moose]

4 hours ago, 5minutelurker said:

. Besides attacks on other YTs, which I don't know too much about as I don't use Twitter, I honestly think if he behaved the way you suggested, he'd lose popularity instantly and be seen as just another tech channel.

He has lost it (or never really had to begin with),  comparing adored's subs to any of the other channels, it is clear his style and/or substance is not very popular.  Being able to find 60K subs being controversial shouldn't be too hard, it is youtube after all.  And we are talking about a guy who created a video shit slamming a journalist over what could easily have been a simple lapse of judgment, then claiming to be the white night of consumers when his hypocrisy is revealed.    The same standards that we judge and hold him to we should hold everyone to, which means if we are going  to assume he is doing this honestly for fear of not being respected then you must also afford pcper the same assumption until proven otherwise, that is that pcper is being honest for fear of not being respected and that the lack of disclaimer was therefore an honest mistake.

 

 

[Humbug]

To be honest I have been a big fan of pcper for a long time. They are very knowledgeable, each of their staffers is an expert in a different area. Their reviews are in depth, their testing methodology digs very deep, and their podcasts are great. They don't try to dumb stuff down too much.

 

Having said that, I have had my own reservations about them over the years. Hear me out through to the end of this post... For example.

 

In 2014-2015 Assasin's creed unity came out. Huge controversy over poor optimization on pc, lots of people experience graphical glitches on PC, being another title with sub-optimized nvidia gameworks effects etc.

 

I saw pcper talking the game's graphics up while promoting Nvidia's game bundle. Click below and just listen for the next 5 mins.

 

A few days later they cover Assasin's creed unity in their podcast. Click below and listen for the next 15 mins. They defend the games performance, compare it to the original crysis, say they experienced no glitches, defend the game's scale, say it's cutting edge, people are too entitled etc.

 

Above doesn't seem to be a problem. Until, the next day they uploaded a video which showed they were being paid by nvidia to promote the game. See below. Suddenly the conflict of interest in their previous few days comments and articles became clear. Click right through to the youtube page if you have any doubts about the sponsorship.

 

 

 

[mr moose]

49 minutes ago, Humbug said:

To be honest I have been a big fan of pcper for a long time. They are very knowledgeable, each of their staffers is an expert in a different area. Their reviews are in depth, their testing methodology digs very deep, and their podcasts are great. They don't try to dumb stuff down too much.

 

Having said that, I have had my own reservations about them over the years. Hear me out through to the end of this post... For example.

 

In 2014-2015 Assasin's creed unity came out. Huge controversy over poor optimization on pc, lots of people experience graphical glitches on PC, being another title with sub-optimized nvidia gameworks effects etc.

 

I saw pcper talking the games graphics up while promoting Nvidia's game bundle. Click below and just listen for the next 5 mins.

 

A few days later they cover Assasin's creed unity in their podcast. Click below and listen for the next 15 mins. They defend the games performance, compare it to the original crysis, say they experienced no glitches, defend the game's scale, say it's cutting edge, people are too entitled etc.

 

Above doesn't seem to be much of a problem. Until, the next day they uploaded a video which showed they were being paid by nvidia to promote the game. See below. Suddenly the conflict of interest in their previous few days comments and articles became clear. Click right through to the youtube page if you have any doubts about the sponsorship.

 

 

 

 

TBH, I'm not really buying it.  They were quite honest, out in a lot (and I mean a lot) of qualifiers, they didn't shit can AMD and Walrath's even wearing an AMD shirt in one of them.  The streaming video was clearly labeled as sponsored stream with giveaways. 

 

I think this is an area of contention were we could easily dismiss any journalist we want and form our own realities.

[Taf the Ghost]

Follow up video:

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/7tdm7k/pcpers_response_to_the_recent_ethical_concerns/

 

The r/Hardware thread.

[Humbug]

45 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

TBH, I'm not really buying it.  They were quite honest, out in a lot (and I mean a lot) of qualifiers, they didn't shit can AMD and Walrath's even wearing an AMD shirt in one of them.  The streaming video was clearly labeled as sponsored stream with giveaways. 

 

I think this is an area of contention were we could easily dismiss any journalist we want and form our own realities.

I have no problem with them accepting money from Nvidia to stream the game. As you said that was disclosed. No issues...

 

My problem is as I mentioned in my previous post; in the previous days they were talking up the game, it's game-works effects and downplaying it's issues pretending to be impartial during their podcasts, pretending that they were a neutral 3rd party. Which you certainly are not if you a part of the game's paid promotional campaign. There was no disclosure on those videos even though they knew they were working behind the scenes with Nvidia on paid content.

 

My post had nothing to do with AMD. For example I remember them crapping on AMD for the terrible stock coolers on Hawai, which is supposed to be a premium product. I 100% agree with that criticism. AMD messed up, and pcper called them out.

[mr moose]

On 1/28/2018 at 1:54 AM, Humbug said:

I have no problem with them accepting money from Nvidia to stream the game. As you said that was disclosed. No issues...

 

My problem is as I mentioned in my previous post; in the surrounding days they were talking up the game and downplaying it's issues pretending to be impartial during their podcasts, pretending that they were a neutral 3rd party. Which you certainly are not if you a part of the game's promotional campaign.

 

My post had nothing to do with AMD.

 

I know what you meant,  I was just saying it didn't  seem pro nvidia, yes they were defending the game.   A lot of references to the game dev and enough qualifications that they understood there was controversy surrounding gameworks.   Just saying if it was nvidia sponsored content in the game discussions then why would he be wearing an AMD shirt? why would he specifically saying:  AMD being 15-20% slower right now and that it's a gameworks title,  not even relevant, we're not getting into that debate.  Because they were specifically addressing how crap the game was performance wise regardless of all that yet how good all the graphics could be assuming there was hardware out their capable of running it.

 

To me none of this sounds like they are promoting anything, just being realistic about the game and the fact it needs top end hardware.

 

 

The question is did they lie? did they hide any truths?  If not and the content wasn't sponsored then why would we assume it was?   I think their statements and arguments were suitably qualified.  Can we assume because AMD has sponsored LTT that anything Linus reviews from AMD is unethical unless he discloses said sponsorship? 

 

On 1/28/2018 at 1:46 AM, Taf the Ghost said:

Follow up video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/7tdm7k/pcpers_response_to_the_recent_ethical_concerns/

 

The r/Hardware thread.

That's a pretty fair response from Ryan IMHO,  It has taken me a while to read through it.  My position on the whole subject hasn't changed (people will still argue one way or the other because all this is up for personal interpretation). 

 

 

[Humbug]

13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I know what you meant,  I was just saying it didn't  seem pro nvidia, yes they were defending the game.   A lot of references to the game dev and enough qualifications that they understood there was controversy surrounding gameworks.   Just saying if it was nvidia sponsored content in the game discussions then why would he be wearing an AMD shirt? why would he specifically saying:  AMD being 15-20% slower right now and that it's a gameworks title,  not even relevant, we're not getting into that debate.  Because they were specifically addressing how crap the game was performance wise regardless of all that yet how good all the graphics could be assuming there was hardware out their capable of running it.

I am not saying the podcasts were sponsored content by Nvidia. I don't believe they were. But they did have a sponsored video of said product in the works. I.e. they engaged in a discussion about all the controversy surrounding the game without telling their viewers that they were stakeholders themselves. All they had to do was say

 

"we have an Nvidia sponsored livestream of assassin's creed unity in the works which will go live tomorrow, that's where we got our game codes from, we plan to stream it and give away some geforce cards as well. However this right here is not a sponsored video, this is our opinion of the game and it's graphical performance, just letting you know in the interest of full disclosure".

 

Then the viewer makes up their own mind based on the facts. No hidden info. My issue was not with the content of the podcasts.

 

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, Humbug said:

I am not saying the podcasts were sponsored content by Nvidia. I don't believe they were. But they did have a sponsored video of said product in the works. I.e. they engaged in a discussion about all the controversy surrounding the game without telling their viewers that they were stakeholders themselves. All they had to do was say

 

"we have an Nvidia sponsored livestream of assassin's creed unity in the works which will go live tomorrow, that's where we got our game codes from, we plan to stream it and give away some geforce cards as well. However this right here is not a sponsored video, this is our opinion of the game and it's graphical performance, just letting you know in the interest of full disclosure".

 

Then the viewer makes up their own mind based on the facts. No hidden info. My issue was not with the content of the podcasts.

 

 

I'm not too sure there is much to think about here.  It's not sponsored and they are not lying or slyly advertising/supporting anything,  For the most part they were actually doing more damage to nvidia (and nvidia themselves for that matter) by talking about how shit the game performs on Nvidia products.  

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

 

I'm not too sure there is much to think about here.  It's not sponsored and they are not lying or slyly advertising/supporting anything,  For the most part they were actually doing more damage to nvidia (and nvidia themselves for that matter) by talking about how shit the game performs on Nvidia products.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appearance_of_impropriety

 

There's a reason LTT marks all of their sponsored content and disclaims how they got "handy tech" stuff. This issue will always crop up in any review-based industry that doesn't pay for all of their products, however there are means to deal with it. No one normally notices how hard of a line Linus takes on certain things, unless you've had to deal with similarly related issues where under-the-table aspects can cause you problems.

 

Though I do note the humor in discussing this on LMG's forum, when LMG did a showcase sponsored spot for Optane, then basically ran a review with "and what's the point of this in the consumer space?". This happened after the X299 video. Media organizations that don't play specific issues upfront & front-facing will always have this problem, especially as it's very easy to fall into a lot of unethical traps in any media industry.

[mr moose]

36 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appearance_of_impropriety

 

There's a reason LTT marks all of their sponsored content and disclaims how they got "handy tech" stuff. This issue will always crop up in any review-based industry that doesn't pay for all of their products, however there are means to deal with it. No one normally notices how hard of a line Linus takes on certain things, unless you've had to deal with similarly related issues where under-the-table aspects can cause you problems.

 

Though I do note the humor in discussing this on LMG's forum, when LMG did a showcase sponsored spot for Optane, then basically ran a review with "and what's the point of this in the consumer space?". This happened after the X299 video. Media organizations that don't play specific issues upfront & front-facing will always have this problem, especially as it's very easy to fall into a lot of unethical traps in any media industry.

 

I don't doubt this area is a proverbial minefield for journalists (especially online nowadays with instant discussion, PR issues and marketing so things get out of hand really quick).   However, I am considerably older than most people here and have been seeing the same arguments used for decades and it really doesn't seem as bad as it used to be.  Tighter laws and the internet itself keeping things generally held to account maybe?  At the end of the day, I watch adored tv and his actions and reasoning and I am afraid regardless of whether pcper was legit or in the wrong, adored was way out of line, looking at the greater picture he took a tank to break up a school yard word fight.   And personally I think, ethics aside, the biggest issue I see today was outlined by Ryan when he said:

 

Quote

we are at the point now of viewers of your content reaching out to me with pictures of my house on Google Maps with my address, as well as my office. Obviously with the recent occurrences in the world, and as the father of a two year old, this is something we take exceedingly seriously.

Which is something that should be taken into consideration regardless of what/who they are addressing.  Because with people the way they are on the internet it is tantamount to reckless endangerment.    

[A_Mediocre_Kangaroo_Farmer]

On 1/26/2018 at 4:47 AM, Enderman said:

You think that reviewers not disclosing sponsorship is something new???!?

Did just discover yesterday what a computer is or something?

 

 

This is basically what I said when I was put on trial for mass murder, "Do you think that people killing loads of other people is something new???!?" and the judge just said "well he's got us there" and I walked.

[Carclis]

3 hours ago, Humbug said:

To be honest I have been a big fan of pcper for a long time. They are very knowledgeable, each of their staffers is an expert in a different area. Their reviews are in depth, their testing methodology digs very deep, and their podcasts are great. They don't try to dumb stuff down too much.

 

Having said that, I have had my own reservations about them over the years. Hear me out through to the end of this post... For example.

 

In 2014-2015 Assasin's creed unity came out. Huge controversy over poor optimization on pc, lots of people experience graphical glitches on PC, being another title with sub-optimized nvidia gameworks effects etc.

 

I saw pcper talking the game's graphics up while promoting Nvidia's game bundle. Click below and just listen for the next 5 mins.

 

A few days later they cover Assasin's creed unity in their podcast. Click below and listen for the next 15 mins. They defend the games performance, compare it to the original crysis, say they experienced no glitches, defend the game's scale, say it's cutting edge, people are too entitled etc.

 

Above doesn't seem to be much of a problem. Until, the next day they uploaded a video which showed they were being paid by nvidia to promote the game. See below. Suddenly the conflict of interest in their previous few days comments and articles became clear. Click right through to the youtube page if you have any doubts about the sponsorship.

I didn't know about that. I kinda saw them as a company that showcases tech and reviews it so that seems kinda out of line from them. I personally started to have doubts about them when I read their i9 7900X review because when I was doing research I noticed that they recycled all their performance numbers from the R7 1800X review. Whilst I think doing this is always a bad idea I was even more disappointed to see such a lazy approach to a platform that was getting a new bios and platform updates every few weeks.

[Xanadu]

3 minutes ago, Carclis said:

I didn't know about that. I kinda saw them as a company that showcases tech and reviews it so that seems kinda out of line from them. I personally started to have doubts about them when I read their i9 7900X review because when I was doing research I noticed that they recycled all their performance numbers from the R7 1800X review. Whilst I think doing this is always a bad idea I was even more disappointed to see such a lazy approach to a platform that was getting a new bios and platform updates every few weeks.

You also have to consider that time is money and everyone is trying to get the most out of what time and resources they have. Corners get cut wherever possible unless money is no object. It's true in media just as it is in corporations and government.