Thoughts on a new F@H badge?

[RollTime]

I noticed an interesting quirk with the Folding badges: They're based on Points, not time invested. 

Here's a chart of PPD for various GPUS:

http://www.overclock.net/t/475163/gpu-projects-ppd-database

The Titan XP, with a PPD of over 1.5 million, could earn the "Bender"  badge in under 24 hours. 

Contrast that with me, running the chrome client on CPU and getting 6,000 PPD. 

Now, let me be clear- the current badge system is great. I realize that these fancy gpu owners have contributed a LOT more than I have to the F@H project, and they deserve the badges.

However, in terms of recognition for support, I believe there should be a badge for actual time spent folding. I'm not sure if there's a way to track this, but if there is, shouldn't those users who have spent many hours running on underpowered equipment get the same recognition as those with powerful GPUs? 

 

I'd love to hear all your thoughts on this.

[Oshino Shinobu]

Thing is, you can set F@H to basically use nothing, though that would still count as time folding. So getting a badge if you just use 1% of your GPU all the time becomes possible. 

[RollTime]

1 minute ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Thing is, you can set F@H to basically use nothing, though that would still count as time folding. So getting a badge if you just use 1% of your GPU all the time becomes possible. 

Good point. Not sure what to do about that.

[RollTime]

4 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Thing is, you can set F@H to basically use nothing, though that would still count as time folding. So getting a badge if you just use 1% of your GPU all the time becomes possible. 

Is there a way to track % of available resources used?

[dizmo]

If they contributed more, then they deserve it, as you've said.

TBH I don't think you should really be doing it just to get badges anyway

 

I don't think the badges should be the same, since you haven't put in the same amount of work.

Say I take 2 people to work with me. One finishes 4 rooms, the other one does half a wall. I don't really think the person who did half the wall should be rewarded the same award just because he was there for the same amount of time, do you?

[RollTime]

Just now, dizmo said:

If they contributed more, then they deserve it, as you've said.

TBH I don't think you should really be doing it just to get badges anyway

 

I don't think the badges should be the same, since you haven't put in the same amount of work.

Say I take 2 people to work with me. One finishes 4 rooms, the other one does half a wall. I don't really think the person who did half the wall should be rewarded the same award just because he was there for the same amount of time, do you?

I think that the badges are about getting recognized for your donation of resources and time. Getting them on this forum affects people's opinion of you, which means people with better equipment effectively get an advantage when posting.

 

That's a good comparison, but you make the other person sound almost lazy. I'm contributing 100% of my cpu resources on an old laptop I have. If someone can so easily outstrip me with a GPU and do more work, I doesn't necessarily mean they deserve more recognition than I do. When I see someone with Bender, I (and others) think they're experienced and knowledgeable. But if they left F@H running with high resource consumption for a day or so to get it, do they deserve that reputation more than someone who genuinely spent time to earn it.

 

To me, this type of badge is about equalizing the playing field- badges shouldn't be about your computer, they should be about the time and effort you spent to get it.

 

 

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, RollTime said:

I think that the badges are about getting recognized for your donation of resources and time. Getting them on this forum affects people's opinion of you, which means people with better equipment effectively get an advantage when posting.

 

That's a good comparison, but you make the other person sound almost lazy. I'm contributing 100% of my cpu resources on an old laptop I have. If someone can so easily outstrip me with a GPU and do more work, I doesn't necessarily mean they deserve more recognition than I do. When I see someone with Bender, I (and others) think they're experienced and knowledgeable. But if they left F@H running with high resource consumption for a day or so to get it, do they deserve that reputation more than someone who genuinely spent time to earn it.

 

To me, this type of badge is about equalizing the playing field- badges shouldn't be about your computer, they should be about the time and effort you spent to get it.

 

 

Haha, no it doesn't. Or it shouldn't. Those badges have nothing to do with the intelligence level of said user. Anyone can run these programs. You get no "advantage" when posting. What the hell kind of advantage would it give you anyway? You're not gaining anything from posting here that you're competing for.

 

Who said they're lazy? Maybe they just don't have the skill set (PC components, for comparison) to do as much as the other fellow.

IMO, yes, they do. They've done more. Plain and simple.

@Oshino Shinobu already pointed out that you can lower the % used. If that's not something that can be dealt with, you're SOL.

 

Now, I do think you should get something for contributing, but only if it were trackable, and something akin to a participation badge.

[NoxiousOdor]

I know having my folding badge has opened all kinds of doors for me. All of my posts are well regarded and always pined at the top of the page. Every week LMG sends me a check equivalent to the my content number and I even got a raise at work. I don't know what @dizmo is talking about but having the badge is a clear sign that I am far smarter than your average member of the forums. Over the next few months I plan on acquiring all the badges and then replacing Linus as head of LMG.

[Oshino Shinobu]

13 minutes ago, RollTime said:

do they deserve that reputation more than someone who genuinely spent time to earn it

Not sure how having a high powered GPU would make their contribution any less genuine. 

 

The whole point of F@H is resource contribution. The more powerful your hardware, the more you've contributed. While it's nice that you contribute with what you have, someone with more powerful hardware has ultimately contributed more than you have, even if they haven't been running it as long. 

 

To be honest, there's really no effort or actual time put into F@H. You set it up and let it run, it's not like you're actively solving equations or anything yourself, you've just left your computer running to do it. 

 

If we're talking simply time spent and effort, I could go out and buy a load of RaspberryPis, set them all up to run for one account and get 240 hours worth of time invested with 10 of them in a day. Basing it off resource contribution makes more sense really, as you've ultimately done more for the cause, doesn't matter how short of a time it took. 

 

When I was folding, I used two Titan Blacks, which are pretty good at compute tasks, so they will easily outperform your laptop's CPU. However, they also cost me nearly £2000, compared to an old laptop, I'd say using expensive hardware warrants an award more than what is essentially the thought of it. 

[dizmo]

17 minutes ago, WhisperingKnickers said:

I know having my folding badge has opened all kinds of doors for me. All of my posts are well regarded and always pined at the top of the page. Every week LMG sends me a check equivalent to the my content number and I even got a raise at work. I don't know what @dizmo is talking about but having the badge is a clear sign that I am far smarter than your average member of the forums. Over the next few months I plan on acquiring all the badges and then replacing Linus as head of LMG.

....if you'll put an end to those thumbnails and include a lot more technical data, you have my vote Supreme Commander! 

[RollTime]

55 minutes ago, WhisperingKnickers said:

I know having my folding badge has opened all kinds of doors for me. All of my posts are well regarded and always pined at the top of the page. Every week LMG sends me a check equivalent to the my content number and I even got a raise at work. I don't know what @dizmo is talking about but having the badge is a clear sign that I am far smarter than your average member of the forums. Over the next few months I plan on acquiring all the badges and then replacing Linus as head of LMG.

 

52 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Not sure how having a high powered GPU would make their contribution any less genuine. 

 

The whole point of F@H is resource contribution. The more powerful your hardware, the more you've contributed. While it's nice that you contribute with what you have, someone with more powerful hardware has ultimately contributed more than you have, even if they haven't been running it as long. 

 

To be honest, there's really no effort or actual time put into F@H. You set it up and let it run, it's not like you're actively solving equations or anything yourself, you've just left your computer running to do it. 

 

If we're talking simply time spent and effort, I could go out and buy a load of RaspberryPis, set them all up to run for one account and get 240 hours worth of time invested with 10 of them in a day. Basing it off resource contribution makes more sense really, as you've ultimately done more for the cause, doesn't matter how short of a time it took. 

 

When I was folding, I used two Titan Blacks, which are pretty good at compute tasks, so they will easily outperform your laptop's CPU. However, they also cost me nearly £2000, compared to an old laptop, I'd say using expensive hardware warrants an award more than what is essentially the thought of it. 

Fair enough.

[RollTime]

56 minutes ago, WhisperingKnickers said:

I know having my folding badge has opened all kinds of doors for me. All of my posts are well regarded and always pined at the top of the page. Every week LMG sends me a check equivalent to the my content number and I even got a raise at work. I don't know what @dizmo is talking about but having the badge is a clear sign that I am far smarter than your average member of the forums. Over the next few months I plan on acquiring all the badges and then replacing Linus as head of LMG.

...

[RollTime]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Haha, no it doesn't. Or it shouldn't. Those badges have nothing to do with the intelligence level of said user. Anyone can run these programs. You get no "advantage" when posting. What the hell kind of advantage would it give you anyway? You're not gaining anything from posting here that you're competing for.

 

Who said they're lazy? Maybe they just don't have the skill set (PC components, for comparison) to do as much as the other fellow.

IMO, yes, they do. They've done more. Plain and simple.

@Oshino Shinobu already pointed out that you can lower the % used. If that's not something that can be dealt with, you're SOL.

 

Now, I do think you should get something for contributing, but only if it were trackable, and something akin to a participation

I see where you're coming from.

[Ithanul]

I never really seen any forums (the ones I lurk around on) do badges based on time spent folding.

Most are either based on points or participating in folding events.

 

Myself, I like collecting badges.  But, my favorite badges are ones for events like FFW folding event and BOINC events like the Pentathlon.

 

Maybe the LTT forums can look into doing some events or joining some and have badges for those events.

[straight_stewie]

9 hours ago, dizmo said:

If they contributed more, then they deserve it, as you've said.

TBH I don't think you should really be doing it just to get badges anyway

Although, if I'm being honest, if Folding At Home deprecates the point system then it would most likely fall far down in my list of priorities.

[dizmo]

4 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

Although, if I'm being honest, if Folding At Home deprecates the point system then it would most likely fall far down in my list of priorities.

So you're not doing it to help the cause you're doing it for self gain. Got it

[straight_stewie]

8 hours ago, dizmo said:

So you're not doing it to help the cause you're doing it for self gain. Got it

You don't know me so I'll take that as a playful jab.

If you think about it, no one ever helps anyone solely to help other people. You help other people because it makes you feel good to do so. If helping other people had no effect on ones self, almost no one would ever do it. 

[Guest]

The minimum points (or WU for the first) for a badge are low enough that it's attainable by most. Let's not forget these badges are manually given out by forum staff. Adding a bunch more would add to their workload (time which is given voluntarily).

[SomethingDarkseid]

On 15/12/2017 at 6:29 PM, WhisperingKnickers said:

I know having my folding badge has opened all kinds of doors for me. All of my posts are well regarded and always pined at the top of the page. Every week LMG sends me a check equivalent to the my content number and I even got a raise at work. I don't know what @dizmo is talking about but having the badge is a clear sign that I am far smarter than your average member of the forums. Over the next few months I plan on acquiring all the badges and then replacing Linus as head of LMG.

 

[Tiberiusisgame]

Do you think the medical research Folding contributes to would prefer faster equipment to expedite a cure? I think they'd like a cure faster, which is why Badges track Work Units. 

 

Theres already a participation badge. It's green. Folding@Home requires what, completing 21 Work Units? You can get there. 

 

In addition to the cost of the GPUs, running that equipment at full speed for weeks or months has real financial implications. I pay ~$2.50USD per day to fold and it does 'not' replace my heating in the winter, so that's not an excuse.