New Workstation for Adobe-based Video Editing and 3D

[Shebbe]

Hey guys! New here

 

I'm working in a creative agency as Senior Editor / head of post-ish. We currently have an Apple based workflow but my days

and love for Apple hardware are completely lost. I want to switch back to Windows and plan to build a new workstation.

I've seen some of LTT's workstation upgrade videos and what not but it's still quite unclear for me as of what to really go for that would be futureproof but stable.

What would you recommend as of now? (Don't tempt me on upcoming hardware we need it pretty fast).

Is X99 still the way to go? Still confused about Intels line-up with X299 etc.

 

What do I do?

80% of my work consists of editing 5K RED footage in Premiere Pro.

The rest is After Effects stuff and occasionally Davinci Resolve. 

We plan to do more 3D too with C4D and Octane Renderer so CUDA is a must.

 

What do I need?

A fast stable Windows computer in a solid case. Water or air cooled cpu.

 

What do I think I want?

CPU: Probably Intel CPU but anyone know how Ryzen is doing for this type of work?
RAM: Minimum 32GB

GPU: 1x GTX 1080 Ti (multiple in the future for 3D gpu rendering so need enough power)

PSU: High watt high quality PSU

MOBO: Motherboard preferably with 10GBe if that exists and thunderbolt if possible. Enough space for 2 GPU's and extra cards like 10GBe port if not onboard.

STORAGE: 2x M2 or regular SSD. 1TB for OS. 1TB for Adobe cache etc.

CASE: Whichever suits my needs and isn't fancy with rgb-led etc.

 

Budget

Unlimited. But keep it within my requirements ofcourse.

 

I think that's about it. I'd love to hear if there's any peeps running a new workstation already, what their config is and how well it's doing.

 

Cheers,

Shebbe

 

[Princess Luna]

Adobe does prefer faster cores than an absurd amount of cores, not quite sure how much intense your workflow should be, the i7 8700k equals the Ryzen 7 1800x in multi-tasking and multi-thread which already is a lot... but being this a professional solution you might need extra juice of an i9 7900x which is basically a polished i7 6950x (x99's highest end chip) for cheaper.

[Shebbe]

Thanks @Princess Cadence

That would be X299 then correct? What would you recommend then for motherboard.

I personally always have used Asus and always been very happy with them.

[RoryDash]

X99 or X299 is your best bet imho, I use Adobe Premiere, Autodesk 3DS Max and After Effects quite a lot in my job & own personal work. X99 has been a fantastic platform for these work loads, [5820k one of the best CPU's ever created] with a GTX 1080. Asus make fantastic boards for both X99 and X299

[TheNaitsyrk]

28 minutes ago, Shebbe said:

Thanks @Princess Cadence

That would be X299 then correct? What would you recommend then for motherboard.

I personally always have used Asus and always been very happy with them.

I'd go for Threadripper to be fair. It does the job for sure.

X99 is dead, no more CPUs are going to be released for it so futureproofness is dead.

Intel X299 is good but overpriced and Threadripper can pretty much keep up easily.

 

I had X99 6800K and I switched to Ryzen. Thank God I did.

 

I use Ryzen 1800X and I work with Blender rendering, 3D modelling in 3DS MAX Studio, C++ programming in Unreal Engine 4 and C# in Unity. SFML and OpenGL programming works fine too in CodeBlocks. I also render videos for YouTube with Sony Vegas 14 and this system has never failed me. X99 was okay but this is faster and better for less than that system with guaranteed support until 2020 since new CPUs will be coming out for it, just like for Ryzen.

 

I was working with Adobe After Effects as well, and it worked just as well as it did with Sony Vegas. I no longer use it though because there's no need for me to use it any more.

 

This mobo is like Rampage for Intel but it's for Threadripper. Meets all of your requirements: https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/ROG-ZENITH-EXTREME/

 

For the CPU I suggest the 12 core, I think 1920X? or 16 core 1950X. Both are really good.

 

Intel X299 is okay too I suppose, so you can go either way and that wouldn't be a bad choice. It's just a matter of getting more for less.

[HKZeroFive]

Mixed bag. Adobe Premiere and After Effects prefer the single-threaded performance of Intel processors but Cinema 4D rendering excels on the basis of "more cores". I'd say that if you're looking for a good medium between the two, get a Intel i9-7900X (especially if you want Thunderbolt 3 which isn't available on X399).

 

When you said you had an "unlimited" budget, I'm going to assume $3K is within reasonable parameters. The motherboard has a 10GbE controller and support for Thunderbolt 3, hence the price tag:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel - Core i9-7900X 3.3GHz 10-Core Processor  ($962.75 @ OutletPC) 
CPU Cooler: Corsair - H115i 104.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($129.99 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: ASRock - Fatal1ty X299 Professional Gaming i9 ATX LGA2066 Motherboard  ($377.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($299.44 @ Newegg Marketplace) 
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($159.99 @ B&H) 
Storage: Western Digital - Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($45.69 @ OutletPC) 
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB AMP Edition Video Card  ($739.99 @ Amazon) 
Case: Fractal Design - Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case  ($79.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: BitFenix - Whisper M 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Total: $2874.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-20 07:26 EDT-0400

[Shebbe]

2 hours ago, HKZeroFive said:

When you said you had an "unlimited" budget, I'm going to assume $3K is within reasonable parameters. The motherboard has a 10GbE controller and support for Thunderbolt 3, hence the price tag:

Pretty hefty price tag indeed. I always thought Asrock was one of the cheaper options you could get but it seems this featureset is pretty neat.

Is it okay to have M2 slots between your pci-e slots? What about temps? Nice that there are 3 of them though.

2 hours ago, HKZeroFive said:

Power Supply: BitFenix - Whisper M 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

How much Watt do I need for 2x GTX 1080 Ti? I might get a second one later.

 

2 hours ago, HKZeroFive said:

CPU: Intel - Core i9-7900X 3.3GHz 10-Core Processor  ($962.75 @ OutletPC) 

Are there any higher options worthwhile price/perf ratio?

I see a (crazy overpriced probably) Intel Core i9-7980XE. Any thoughts on that compared to Threadripper 1950X?

[HKZeroFive]

16 minutes ago, Shebbe said:

Pretty hefty price tag indeed. I always thought Asrock was one of the cheaper options you could get but it seems this featureset is pretty neat.

Is it okay to have M2 slots between your pci-e slots? What about temps? Nice that there are 3 of them though.

Putting them near the GPU doesn't exactly help but temps should be fine as long as you don't starve them of airflow. And yes, ASRock is probably one of the better motherboard manufacturers nowadays...

16 minutes ago, Shebbe said:

How much Watt do I need for 2x GTX 1080 Ti? I might get a second one later.

With a i9-7900X and two GTX 1080Ti, I'd recommend a 1000W power supply such as the Corsair HX1000i or the Seasonic PRIME Titanium.

16 minutes ago, Shebbe said:

Are there any higher options worthwhile price/perf ratio?

I see a (crazy overpriced probably) Intel Core i9-7980XE. Any thoughts on that compared to Threadripper 1950X?

From a performance standpoint, the i9-7980XE would be the fastest (read: best) processor you could get for rendering in Cinema 4D... but in applications such as Premiere and After Effects, more CPU cores doesn't bring that much benefit and single core performance reigns supreme. At that point, I would just get the TR 1950X and save yourself $1K with only a minimal performance loss in comparison, although you would lose TB3 if that's big deal for you.

 

Judging from your extensive range of workloads, the i9-7900X would probably be your sweetspot. Going higher in the Intel Core i9 lineup would lead to diminishing returns and going to Threadripper would mean lesser performance in Adobe applications where single-threaded performance is king.

[Shebbe]

11 minutes ago, HKZeroFive said:

Judging from your extensive range of workloads, the i9-7900X would probably be your sweetspot. Going higher in the Intel Core i9 lineup would lead to diminishing returns and going to Threadripper would mean lesser performance in Adobe applications where single-threaded performance is king.

Thank you for sharing your expertise! Adobe software is definitely our main realm. I also don't know if more cores would benefit GPU rendering (Octane).

Intel it is then!

Is it worth anything going for 12 core 9720X instead?

Price 10-core €950,- // 12-core €1150,-

[HKZeroFive]

38 minutes ago, Shebbe said:

Thank you for sharing your expertise! Adobe software is definitely our main realm. I also don't know if more cores would benefit GPU rendering (Octane).

Intel it is then!

Is it worth anything going for 12 core 9720X instead?

Price 10-core €950,- // 12-core €1150,-

You might see an increase in performance when it comes to multithreaded tasks, but I don't think it's worth the extra 200 euros since you'll receive diminishing returns with those core counts.

[Princess Luna]

Just came to give my opinion that HKZero build is very solid, even if I also personally only shop Asus motherboards there is nothing wrong with that AsRock one, I'd stick to the i9 7900x as well as he has mention.

 

The i9 is superior to Threadripper for your specific workload as well so even if AMD has good pricing stick to HKZero's suggestion.

 

The 1080 Ti will do wonders at Cuda Acceleration as well, get any EXCEPT MSi Aero (is awfully cheaply made and has most issues and problems of all, aside being extremely ugly) and you should have a more than capable high end workstation for your needs.

[Shebbe]

Thanks @Princess Cadence.

I'll consider the Asrock mobo.

For the 1080 Ti I'll probably go for the MSI Gaming X version. I personally have the normal 1080 Gaming X and quite happy so far.

 

 

[Princess Luna]

14 minutes ago, Shebbe said:

.

Not a particular fan of MSi products being honest... but whatever pleases your taste [:

[Shebbe]

Hey guys, 

 

Did some thinking and research. This still worries me for what Intel is offering eventhough it's faster in single-core performance.

 

AMD TR, 64 lanes: 4 x PCIe 3.0 x16 (x16, x16/x16, x16/x8/x16, x16/x8/x16/x8)
INTEL i9, 44 lanes: If you install CPU with 44 lanes, PCIE1/PCIE2/PCIE3/PCIE5 will run at x16/x8/x16/x0 or x8/x8/x16/x8

 

If Intel would have had 48 lanes on their cpu's it would make a lot more sense I guess but this is just weird. I think they could've easily pull off 

4 extra lanes to get 3 pcie ports running x16. 

This is quite a limitation in GPU and other card expansions. Or am I understanding something wrong here?

I don't know how much lanes stuff like a thunderbolt card or m2 raid cards would occupy how are x0 slots being handled.

Through another path or something? I know lanes has to do with data bandwidth but I'm not an expert on these things.

 

Deal is, I definitely plan on getting 2 GPU's and possibly some other pci-e cards maybe even a third GPU in the future.

Also, ditch that thunderbolt requirement. As long as I have 10Gbe on the board it's fine.

 

Any thoughts or clarification on that from you guys?

Thanks for the help so far!

[Shebbe]

bump.

[brob]

On 10/27/2017 at 6:41 AM, Shebbe said:

Hey guys, 

 

Did some thinking and research. This still worries me for what Intel is offering eventhough it's faster in single-core performance.

 

AMD TR, 64 lanes: 4 x PCIe 3.0 x16 (x16, x16/x16, x16/x8/x16, x16/x8/x16/x8)
INTEL i9, 44 lanes: If you install CPU with 44 lanes, PCIE1/PCIE2/PCIE3/PCIE5 will run at x16/x8/x16/x0 or x8/x8/x16/x8

 

If Intel would have had 48 lanes on their cpu's it would make a lot more sense I guess but this is just weird. I think they could've easily pull off 

4 extra lanes to get 3 pcie ports running x16. 

This is quite a limitation in GPU and other card expansions. Or am I understanding something wrong here?

I don't know how much lanes stuff like a thunderbolt card or m2 raid cards would occupy how are x0 slots being handled.

Through another path or something? I know lanes has to do with data bandwidth but I'm not an expert on these things.

 

Deal is, I definitely plan on getting 2 GPU's and possibly some other pci-e cards maybe even a third GPU in the future.

Also, ditch that thunderbolt requirement. As long as I have 10Gbe on the board it's fine.

 

Any thoughts or clarification on that from you guys?

Thanks for the help so far!

Don't get overly worried about PCIe lanes. In fact an X299 system has more PCIe 3.0 lane than a X399 build. The allocation of lanes is all that differs. X299 has up to 44 lanes on the cpu and 24 on the chipset. X399 has 60 on the cpu and only 4 on the chipset. 

 

In a rendering situation running the gpu x16 is not necessary. Even intensive games are not able to saturate that much bandwidth. Add to this the fact that fast storage is an important component of a high performance workstation and the Intel lane allocation starts to make sense. See the Octane section of https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Titan-X-Performance-PCI-E-3-0-x8-vs-x16-851/ for some hard data.

 

If you haven't seen these articles, they may help you decide on an optimal cpu choice. I have not found a single article that provides data on both the i9-7940X and any Threadripper cpu. But the data in https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Premiere-Pro-CC-2017-1-2-CPU-Performance-Core-i7-8700K-i5-8600K-i3-8350K-1047/ and https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Premiere-Pro-CC-2017-1-2-CPU-Comparison-Skylake-X-vs-Threadripper-1012/ should allow for interpolating relative performance.

 

For what it's worth, I would suggest something along the lines of 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i9-7940X 3.1GHz 14-Core Processor  ($1440.67 @ B&H) 
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($151.79 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: Asus - ROG RAMPAGE VI EXTREME EATX LGA2066 Motherboard  ($649.99 @ B&H) 
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($873.59 @ Newegg Marketplace) 
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 2TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($1204.99 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB FTW3 HYBRID GAMING Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($849.99 @ B&H) 
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB FTW3 HYBRID GAMING Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($849.99 @ B&H) 
Case: Phanteks - Enthoo Series Primo Aluminum ATX Full Tower Case  ($249.98 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA T2 1600W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($429.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $6700.98
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-30 16:24 EDT-0400

 

 

[Shebbe]

Aah, thanks @brob it's much more clear now ;).

 

Glad to see I'd be able to stick with Intel too.

 

14 hours ago, brob said:

Motherboard: Asus - ROG RAMPAGE VI EXTREME EATX LGA2066 Motherboard  ($649.99 @ B&H) 

Any particular reason to recommend this over the previously mentioned:

On 10/20/2017 at 1:27 PM, HKZeroFive said:

Motherboard: ASRock - Fatal1ty X299 Professional Gaming i9 ATX LGA2066 Motherboard  ($377.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

The ASRock has 10GBe onboard and is cheaper. (EDIT: Asus has it to it seems, sorry about that, still curious on the choice though)

 

14 hours ago, brob said:

Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA T2 1600W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($429.99 @ Amazon) 

Did you pick the 1600W for the headroom for possible 3rd GPU? What would be minimum for that?

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by Shebbe

[brob]

3 hours ago, Shebbe said:

Aah, thanks @brob it's much more clear now ;).

 

Glad to see I'd be able to stick with Intel too.

 

Any particular reason to recommend this over the previously mentioned:

The ASRock has 10GBe onboard and is cheaper. (EDIT: Asus has it to it seems, sorry about that, still curious on the choice though)

 

Did you pick the 1600W for the headroom for possible 3rd GPU? What would be minimum for that?

 

 

 

I like Asus motherboards in general. They are generally excellent quality with many useful features. Fan control in particular is very good.

 

But I selected the Rampage VI Extreme particularly because the PCIe x16 slots are spaced to allow for up to four double-width gpu. The ASRock motherboard, while having the same number of x16 slots has them spaced such that only three double-width gpu can be installed.

 

1600W will comfortably handle a 3rd gpu. Even a fourth along with upgrades to memory and storage. Allowing for other upgrades, the minimum for 3 gpu would be around 1300W.