apu "Raven Ridge" APU more details leaked

[N1ght_F1nger]

A little more detail on the Vega + Ryzen APU

 

Articular here:

https://www.techpowerup.com/236312/zen-meeting-vega-in-amd-raven-ridge-apu-confirmed

 

Something interesting that was confirmed was:

Quote

"The "Zen" CCX talks to the "Vega" graphics core using Infinity Fabric"

 

Will be interesting to see the performance and heat this will output, might be a little beast for the price....

Edited August 22, 2017 by N1ght_F1nger
Quote used

[sazrocks]

Infinity fabric as a CPU-GPU interconnect sounds interesting. Speaking of that, how does an intel CPU communicate with its iGPU? Also make sure to include quotes so this thread doesn't get moved/locked.

[themctipers]

you need a quote 

 

 

if they have 15w parts, yay! 

[N1ght_F1nger]

3 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

Infinity fabric as a CPU-GPU interconnect sounds interesting. Speaking of that, how does an intel CPU communicate with its iGPU? Also make sure to include quotes so this thread doesn't get moved/locked.

Done quote added.

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, themctipers said:

you need a quote 

 

 

if they have 15w parts, yay! 

15W=a lower TDP than that of my A8 4555m.....which is bloody awful due to AMD's Turbo Core fucking up its under-full-load clock speed (a Phenom II P920 plays games better....and that was the worst Phenom II X4 ever made).

[themctipers]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

15W=a lower TDP than that of my A8 4555m.....which is bloody awful due to AMD's Turbo Core fucking up its under-full-load clock speed (a Phenom II P920 plays games better....and that was the worst Phenom II X4 ever made).

yes

i want that. i want a ultrabook, more specifically a ultrabook that is thick, uses 15w, and has a shit ton of battery

[Dabombinable]

1 minute ago, themctipers said:

yes

i want that. i want a ultrabook, more specifically a ultrabook that is thick, uses 15w, and has a shit ton of battery

Well its Ryzen not Bulldozer/Trinity/Piledriver so we should get that from Raven Ridge.

[themctipers]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Well its Ryzen not Bulldozer/Trinity/Piledriver so we should get that from Raven Ridge.

give me a ultrabook that is thick yet has a stupid amount of battery life. 

[Dabombinable]

Just now, themctipers said:

give me a ultrabook that is thick yet has a stupid amount of battery life. 

That wouldn't be an ultrabook then .  So you basically want one of those old 4KG+ behemoths with a Raven ridge APU (2 and a half hours battery life with an 82W desktop Pentium 4 Ht 3,2GHz was insane)?

[themctipers]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

That wouldn't be an ultrabook then .  So you basically want one of those old 4KG+ behemoths with a Raven ridge APU (2 and a half hours battery life with an 82W desktop Pentium 4 Ht 3,2GHz was insane)?

i call it an ultrabook because it still fits what the ultrabook is to me

good battery life while being thin and light i guess

 

it will be thin, like

you'll be able to stack 2 USB ports on top of each other, which is still thin IMO

 

i want a laptop with some good battery life, closest thing to it is a ultrabook. dont give me 1080ti performance, i want BATTERY LIFE with a DECENT CPU

[Prysin]

3 hours ago, N1ght_F1nger said:

A little more detail on the Vega + Ryzen APU

 

Articular here:

https://www.techpowerup.com/236312/zen-meeting-vega-in-amd-raven-ridge-apu-confirmed

 

Something interesting that was confirmed was:

 

Will be interesting to see the performance and heat this will output, might be a little beast for the price....

Nothing new here really. We knew this was going to be the case when Infinity Fabric was first introduced. It was the only logical conclusion anyone with any amount of intellectual integrity could come to given how the APU platforms are designed.

 

APUs with HBM or HMC was always a pipe-dream. 

[Prysin]

25 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Well its Ryzen not Bulldozer/Trinity/Piledriver so we should get that from Raven Ridge.

nop. Heat density of VEGA will mean that it wont be a great performer outside of higher end models. Lower end Ultrabooks will have too weak cooling. Throttling/low base clocks will plague this generation for a while.

 

Same reason why we aint seeing "Full 1080" gaming laptops taking off. Just not enough cooling for the 14/16nm density.

 

AMD GPUs, and APUs uses ultra dense "GPU style" liberaries to improve performance (innovation first seen in Carrizo). This provides an improvemen in GPU and APU workloads, but hamper CPU clocks due to the high heat density within the die. It is part of the reason we havent seen Bristol Ridge hit desktop until now. Simply put, they needed a new power efficient node just to make their 28nm design work. Now we are talking an even bigger GPU, which is shown to be just as power hungry as teh Hawaii and Tonga based Kaveri/Carrizo based APUs.

 

We need to wait until Raven Ridges successor/perhaps desktop Raven Ridge, to see full potential. Even high end laptops is going to strongly favor a "dGPU" solution over unleashing the full APU power. dGPU will cost the same cooling wise (bigger heatpipes, more fans etc), but will deliver far more performance.

 

 

[Prysin]

26 minutes ago, themctipers said:

i call it an ultrabook because it still fits what the ultrabook is to me

good battery life while being thin and light i guess

 

it will be thin, like

you'll be able to stack 2 USB ports on top of each other, which is still thin IMO

 

i want a laptop with some good battery life, closest thing to it is a ultrabook. dont give me 1080ti performance, i want BATTERY LIFE with a DECENT CPU

Theoretically, if you built a laptop like the HP Spectre just 4mm thicker, you could fit a enormous boost in cooling if you went with larger diameter fans. 

 

ATM cooling is holding back batteries too. They cannot be too large or else they get issues with cooling them during charging and heavy usage. Charging and heavy usage on a bigger high density battery could lead to fire hazards or at best exponentially longer charge times (say hello to 6 hours charging for 8 hours use, compared to 1h45m for 5h+ today)

[themctipers]

Just now, Prysin said:

Theoretically, if you built a laptop like the HP Spectre just 4mm thicker, you could fit a enormous boost in cooling if you went with larger diameter fans. 

 

ATM cooling is holding back batteries too. They cannot be too large or else they get issues with cooling them during charging and heavy usage. Charging and heavy usage on a bigger high density battery could lead to fire hazards or at best exponentially longer charge times (say hello to 6 hours charging for 8 hours use, compared to 1h45m for 5h+ today)

either have it be less dense (the laptop id have would be thicker than most laptops now yet not be too thick, you could have a better battery life with not as dense batteries i guess)

or do what smartphones have been doing: quick charge from low percentage to until 40 or so, then slowly charge up to 90, then charge even slower. 

[Dackzy]

37 minutes ago, themctipers said:

i call it an ultrabook because it still fits what the ultrabook is to me

good battery life while being thin and light i guess

 

it will be thin, like

you'll be able to stack 2 USB ports on top of each other, which is still thin IMO

 

i want a laptop with some good battery life, closest thing to it is a ultrabook. dont give me 1080ti performance, i want BATTERY LIFE with a DECENT CPU

Basically just get a business laptop. Most are 7+ hours in battery life even the ones with HQ CPUs.

 

On topic,  I don't really see this working out that well for them. The lower power ones will be shitty and the high end ones would require cooling close to if not the same as laptops with a dGPU. 

[themctipers]

Just now, Dackzy said:

Basically just get a business laptop. Most are 7+ hours in battery life even the ones with HQ CPUs.

 

On topic,  I don't really see this working out that well for them. The lower power ones will be shitty and the high end ones would require close to if not the same as laptops with a dGPU. 

am in canada, for $1000 you can get a TN or IPS 768p laptop for the same price as you can get a 1080p IPS laptop in the consumer world

 

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

Basically just get a business laptop. Most are 7+ hours in battery life even the ones with HQ CPUs.

 

On topic,  I don't really see this working out that well for them. The lower power ones will be shitty and the high end ones would require close to if not the same as laptops with a dGPU. 

yep. Cooling wise, the heat density is a nightmare. VEGA may not be a great choice. BUT!!!

 

Depending on the configuration, HBCC can save the performance and heat, if all higher end models is sold with a SPECIFIC amount of RAM forcefully enabled as "High Bandwidth Cache"... aka 20GB RAM model (2x8 GB Soldered/SODIMM + 1x4GB soldered?), 4GB being dedicated purely as GPU cache.

 

It could work. it would save power by reducing CPU fetch queues and reduce heat from onboard NVMe or SATA storage. It would however not really help in HUGE games... but it would give the laptop a MUCH better overall performance.

 

They could make mobile APU drivers that say prioritize 4GB "cache RAM" for the GPU first, then start eating up system RAM as needed.

 

then again, DRAM is expensive, so this would probably not happen.

[Prysin]

4 minutes ago, themctipers said:

am in canada, for $1000 you can get a TN or IPS 768p laptop for the same price as you can get a 1080p IPS laptop in the consumer world

 

Both me and Dackzy live in Europe... Do not come here talking about your canadian bargains

[themctipers]

Just now, Prysin said:

Both me and Dackzy live in Europe... Do not come here talking about your canadian bargains

ok

[Dackzy]

Just now, themctipers said:

am in canada, for $1000 you can get a TN or IPS 768p laptop for the same price as you can get a 1080p IPS laptop in the consumer world

 

Well yeah,  but they are also build world's better. It is kinda a trade off, would you like to have a machine with long battery life, great build quality and good cooling at the cost of easily 50% more or save 50% and loose something in those categories.

I am personally willing to pay the extra to get a laptop that is a tank. 

[themctipers]

Just now, Dackzy said:

Well yeah,  but they are also build world's better. It is kinda a trade off, would you like to have a machine with long battery life, great build quality and good cooling at the cost of easily 50% more or save 50% and loose something in those categories.

I am personally willing to pay the extra to get a laptop that is a tank. 

i am too, but im losing too much

im losing 4gb of ram, im losing 7200u for a either i3, pentium or a last gen i3, a ssd, and 1080p and IPS

its not worth it.

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, Prysin said:

yep. Cooling wise, the heat density is a nightmare. VEGA may not be a great choice. BUT!!!

 

Depending on the configuration, HBCC can save the performance and heat, if all higher end models is sold with a SPECIFIC amount of RAM forcefully enabled as "High Bandwidth Cache"... aka 20GB RAM model (2x8 GB Soldered/SODIMM + 1x4GB soldered?), 4GB being dedicated purely as GPU cache.

 

It could work. it would save power by reducing CPU fetch queues and reduce heat from onboard NVMe or SATA storage. It would however not really help in HUGE games... but it would give the laptop a MUCH better overall performance.

 

They could make mobile APU drivers that say prioritize 4GB "cache RAM" for the GPU first, then start eating up system RAM as needed.

 

then again, DRAM is expensive, so this would probably not happen.

That would actually be pretty interesting to see, but if we are going to see anything close to it, then it would only be in premium laptops 

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, themctipers said:

i am too, but im losing too much

im losing 4gb of ram, im losing 7200u for a either i3, pentium or a last gen i3, a ssd, and 1080p and IPS

its not worth it.

Well, if you generally add 50% to your premium laptop then you can get a business laptop with the same specs 

[themctipers]

Just now, Dackzy said:

Well, if you generally add 50% to your premium laptop then you can get a business laptop with the same specs 

not worth it at all. with thonkpad thats a 20% premium (but still too much for me) 

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, themctipers said:

not worth it at all. with thonkpad thats a 20% premium (but still too much for me) 

That basically comes down to what you do. I would happily pay the premium to get a laptop I know that is going to be able to go to hell and back. Mainly because I move it around a lot and I need a very reliable laptop.