Why in budget laptops gpu is bottelnecking

[Dhruv Ghayal]

Why in most budget gaming laptops, gpus are always paired with i7. I think pairing a quard core i5 with gtx 960m/1050 type of gpu is more effective in terms of lowering final MRP and thermals as most budget laptops has only one fan. If a company still want to sell laptops at higher price then they should put extra vram. 

[Damascus]

Eh, I'd take an i7 + 1050 2gb over an i5 +1050 4GB any day.  I7's matter a whole lot in new games.

[Pendragon]

8 minutes ago, Dhruv Ghayal said:

gpus are always paired with i7

no? 

 

5 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Eh, I'd take an i7 + 1050 2gb over an i5 +1050 4GB any day.  I7's matter a whole lot in new games.

id take the i5+1050ti though. 

[Damascus]

4 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

id take the i5+1050ti though. 

I'd still take the i7 laptop, I've been w/o hyperthreading and I fuggin hate it.  I'm the kind of guy who can easily have 3-4 cores worth of chrome tabs up while gaming

[kaiju_wars]

12 minutes ago, Damascus said:

I'd still take the i7 laptop, I've been w/o hyperthreading and I fuggin hate it.  I'm the kind of guy who can easily have 3-4 cores worth of chrome tabs up while gaming

My current laptop has an i5 with 960m 4GB.

Considering the closest competitor the 7559 at the time was an Asus laptop for about $150 more (this was around the time I bought my laptop), I'll gladly take an i5 say with a better GPU.

For the record, the Asus laptop was an i7 paired with a 960m of the 2GB variety.

[kaiju_wars]

26 minutes ago, Dhruv Ghayal said:

Why in most budget gaming laptops, gpus are always paired with i7. I think pairing a quard core i5 with gtx 960m/1050 type of gpu is more effective in terms of lowering final MRP and thermals as most budget laptops has only one fan. If a company still want to sell laptops at higher price then they should put extra vram. 

Look at the Dell Inspiron 7567 starts with an i5.

[Amaranth]

14 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Eh, I'd take an i7 + 1050 2gb over an i5 +1050 4GB any day.  I7's matter a whole lot in new games.

 

While it is true that more modern games are actually starting to take advantage of extra threads I doubt that the gain of going from an i5 to an i7 would be as significant as going from a 1050 to a 1050Ti.

 

Not only are you getting more vRAM, and some games will max out the 2Gb of RAM on the base 1050, but you will also have better performance in the majority of games since most do not take full advantage of the virtual threads offered by the i7.

 

And, honestly, I think that your general system RAM would be much more of an issue when having lots of tabs open while gaming as, unless they're all actively doing intensive things in the background, that's something that is going to go fast (I hate seeing 4Gb on modern machines, even low end ones, and would say that 8Gb is really the new minimum - or 6Gb if you have a configuration that would allow that).

 

[spartaman64]

in laptops many i5s are duo core so going i7 is not overkill as its the only 4 core option and laptop cpus are weaker than desktop ones

[Amaranth]

17 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

in laptops many i5s are duo core so going i7 is not overkill as its the only 4 core option and laptop cpus are weaker than desktop ones

Incorrect. There are plenty of Quad Core i5 mobile chips (the entire HQ series or the older MQ series comes to mind).

 

If you're looking at a laptop that will have a dual core then the i7 that would go into it will also likely be a dual core. The same is true in reverse - if you're dealing with a four core i7 the i5 is likely going to be four core as well.

 

I haven't seen any laptops that jump from offering a 'U' series ULV Dual Core i5 to a full Quad Core i7 HQ chip. Laptops are designed around processors that draw a certain TDP and you're not going to stick an 18w chip in a 45w system or a 45w chip in an 18w system.

 

Not all Mobile i5 CPUs are Dual Core and not all Mobile i7 CPUs are Quad core. In fact, with the ULV chips you're not even loosing Hyperthreading when you go with an i5 and the ULV i7 line just has more catche and a higher clock speed.

[spartaman64]

2 minutes ago, Amaranth said:

Incorrect. There are plenty of Quad Core i5 mobile chips (the entire HQ series or the older MQ series comes to mind).

 

If you're looking at a laptop that will have a dual core then the i7 that would go into it will also likely be a dual core. The same is true in reverse - if you're dealing with a four core i7 the i5 is likely going to be four core as well.

 

I haven't seen any laptops that jump from offering a 'U' series ULV Dual Core i5 to a full Quad Core i7 HQ chip. Laptops are designed around processors that draw a certain TDP and you're not going to stick an 18w chip in a 45w system or a 45w chip in an 18w system.

 

Not all Mobile i5 CPUs are Dual Core and not all Mobile i7 CPUs are Quad core. In fact, with the ULV chips you're not even loosing Hyperthreading when you go with an i5 and the ULV i7 line just has more catche and a higher clock speed.

which is exactly why just looking at the i7 and i5 tag is completely unreliable. just because the laptop says it has an i7 doesnt mean it is overkill there are dual core i7s

[ArduinoBen]

i7 sounds flashy.

[ArduinoBen]

1 hour ago, Damascus said:

3-4 cores worth of chrome tabs up while gaming

your Spoilt dude.  I can only have csgo running all by itself at lowest setting 720p and barley edge 45 fps max.....

[Amaranth]

On 8/9/2017 at 2:40 AM, spartaman64 said:

which is exactly why just looking at the i7 and i5 tag is completely unreliable. just because the laptop says it has an i7 doesnt mean it is overkill 

The i5 and i7 tags are useful if you pay attention to the series of chips that you're looking at but only if you don't go in with false preconceptions of what that means.

 

Although I am confused why you said that an i7 was the only Quad Core option.

[Imglidinhere]

1 hour ago, kaiju_wars said:

My current laptop has an i5 with 960m 4GB.

Considering the closest competitor the 7559 at the time was an Asus laptop for about $150 more (this was around the time I bought my laptop), I'll gladly take an i5 say with a better GPU.

For the record, the Asus laptop was an i7 paired with a 960m of the 2GB variety.

You and I share the same laptop. I'm thankful that the 960M has 4GB because it actually lets me enjoy Fallout 4 with Ultra-level Textures. I regularly see it push beyond 2GB in games in any case. So yes, having an i5 with a GPU that has more Vram is more beneficial than the alternative.

[System Error Message]

This doesnt have much to do with the CPU. A lot of graphical games push a lot of triangles to render and the limitation of the GPU is just the triangles, pixels and any compute work the GPU has to do when rendering. In openGL however the CPU frequency matters as you have 1 core always telling the GPU to update but for directx and vulkan the CPU does less work especially for vulkan. You could pair an i3 with a gtx 1080 ti or vega with vulkan and it would still be the GPU bottlenecking.

 

CPUs can move data very fast, even an ARM based one can move gigabytes of data from one memory to another as a lot of routers are ARM based and some capable of multi gigabit software NAT, what bottlenecks the CPU in graphics other than openGL is if the CPU is used to calculate 3D data and camera angles as well. 99% of games use the CPU to calculate the 3D portion and then send it to the GPU each time however many games arent as intensive either but this is usually how graphics programming courses roll.

 

So even in a PC with loads of GPUs like the case of the 16k gaming video, All GPUs have a limit of how many triangles, pixels and graphical elements they can push. Even on a high end setup the limit may be high but it is still there.

 

The reason why multi threading matters now is because programmers are starting to use threads finally. I've been using threads for many years now and i can tell you from experience that you dont need an i7 for better performance compared to an i5 as i've had my apps run very well on single core ARM CPUs but the i7 hides bad coding better than an i5 and there are few good coders. However the i7 can improve performance when 2 seperate softwares run together but thats more to do with cpu pipelining in having less clocks not doing anything in the CPU core. Its useful but not entirely necessary as async multi threaded software can run on single threaded CPUs with the same performance.

[Damascus]

4 hours ago, ArduinoBen said:

your Spoilt dude.  I can only have csgo running all by itself at lowest setting 720p and barley edge 45 fps max.....

Lol, go to college.  Gives me an excuse to spend waaay too much on my pc If all I did was game I doubt I'd need/want my current setup.

[Colexd]

Not really, they usually pair it with the i5 with an option of going i7 for a higher price.

[kaiju_wars]

3 hours ago, Colexd said:

Not really, they usually pair it with the i5 with an option of going i7 for a higher price.

Now they do, before Skylake though, there really wasn't an option for i5s cause Intel only made dual core ones up until the 6300HQ.

 

And he has a point.  During Skylake, really only Dell used the new fancy quad core mobile i5s.

This gen, you have Acer, Dell, HP, and Asus using it on the low end.
But most manufacturers are still only focusing on the i7s.  If you want anything more powerful than a 1050 Ti, you have to go with an i7.  
It would be nice to see a 1060 mobile or mobile RX 480 paired with a mobile i5 though.

[Mira Yurizaki]

9 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

It would be nice to see a 1060 mobile or mobile RX 480 paired with a mobile i5 though.

Alienware does this. But then you're spending an extra $200 for the brand.

[kaiju_wars]

3 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Alienware does this. But then you're spending an extra $200 for the brand.

So Dell does do it, on their "performance" line.

I'm talking about on the budget end, like with Inspirons.

Honestly, if you could get the current Inspiron 7000 gaming with as I said (i5 and 480 or 1060), it would be best budget gaming laptop, IMO.

But I've given it to Acer this gen, cause their competitor is the same price for the same specs, and it has an IPS panel.  Not the shit TN Dell went with.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Just now, kaiju_wars said:

So Dell does do it, on their "performance" line.

I'm talking about on the budget end, like with Inspirons.

Honestly, if you could get the current Inspiron 7000 gaming with as I said (i5 and 480 or 1060), it would be best budget gaming laptop, IMO.

But I've given it to Acer this gen, cause their competitor is the same price for the same specs, and it has an IPS panel.  Not the shit TN Dell went with.

Dell added the option finally for $50 more.

 

However I still give Dell a recommendation for one other thing: the 15 7567 has amazing battery life. Most tests I've seen average around 9.5 hours on the web site browsing test. I've yet to find anyone else come close to it for the same price and specs. Sure, "hur dur why would you want battery life on a gaming laptop." Because I like using my laptop as a mobile device, not a desktop replacement.

[Colexd]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

Dell added the option finally for $50 more.

 

However I still give Dell a recommendation for one other thing: the 15 7567 has amazing battery life. Most tests I've seen average around 9.5 hours on the web site browsing test. I've yet to find anyone else come close to it for the same price and specs. Sure, "hur dur why would you want battery life on a gaming laptop." Because I like using my laptop as a mobile device, not a desktop replacement.

Yeah, I have it and i can attest to that.

[kaiju_wars]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Dell added the option finally for $50 more.

 

However I still give Dell a recommendation for one other thing: the 15 7567 has amazing battery life. Most tests I've seen average around 9.5 hours on the web site browsing test. I've yet to find anyone else come close to it for the same price and specs. Sure, "hur dur why would you want battery life on a gaming laptop." Because I like using my laptop as a mobile device, not a desktop replacement.

That's one of the many reasons I went with the 7559.

It's just that, I really hate TN panels

Now it's a good TN panel, I don't have an issue, such as that one Dell G-Sync monitor (that I want so bad).  But when it's pretty crap like what Dell used on their laptop, especially for the price, no.

I know it's a budget gaming laptop, but a TN panel is no excuse.  Especially when it's predecessor had the same relative specs for it's generation, and it used an IPS display.

 

(Also honestly, it shouldn't be an option, IMO, it should be standard).

[Mira Yurizaki]

4 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

(Also honestly, it shouldn't be an option, IMO, it should be standard).

Well I won't argue that. But hey, at least it's there now.

[BWLServers]

EDIT: Don't look here I'm a peasant