7740X's overclockabilty reviewed

[Drak3]

Just now, Fonzie92 said:

Keep on believing and spewing misinformation on this forum about how all x299 platforms are "high end" and all can oc the same. 

19 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

The lowest end X299 will start to feel the pain once you get into subambient, and subzero overclocking

I never claimed that low end X299 will OC exactly as well as high end X299. I actually stated that once one gets into extreme overclocking with extreme cooling, low end X299 boards will have some issues.

 

I said that a low end X299 board will have the same OC capability as a Z270 board of similar price.

 

And the exact reason, which you fail to acknowledge, is because low end enthusiast X boards are higher quality than low end Z boards. That is why they're more expensive than low end Z270 boards.

[MageTank]

7 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

They will also continue the "dumb trend" of selling a great more CPUs then our community seems likely to admit .  Honestly, Intel is going to be just fine regardless of how much we speculate on how much they are hurting themselves.  The logic that many of us use to justify our reasoning doesn't usually play out in real life.  I think our uncommon passion for this stuff skews reality a bit.  

 

 

Umm, those were your words.  See below.

 

I was simply pointing out that the enthusiast level stuff was never native to the Kaby Lake chip to begin with, therefore it wasn't excluded.  

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, and my own words are still true. The 7700k is not an enthusiast CPU. It's only features were made available to nearly every other consumer CPU (aside from maybe TSX which is broken, and VT-d) on it's platform. The 7740X on the other hand, is on an enthusiast platform that offers far more features ( additional PCIe lanes, quad channel memory, CPU raid, etc) and none of them are available to it. It's essentially the same CPU, on a different platform, with none of the features said platform offers.

 

I am not speculating that it won't sell well. You will never find a post in which I said that was the case. I said it will potentially hurt their normal consumer lineup, because who would buy a consumer i7, if you can just buy the "enthusiast" i7 with a better upgrade path? Ryzen is already hurting Intel's smaller lineup by offering real unlocked CPU's and better thread counts for a fraction of the price. Intel's last bastion of defense in the consumer lineup, was the amazingly fast i7's. Now that is being moved to the enthusiast platform, which makes Intel's consumer platform look even less enticing overall. Whether or not this turns out to be true is to be seen, but it's how I feel based on the logic above.

 

Believe me, I wouldn't be complaining about a 4c CPU on the enthusiast platform, if it wasn't for the sheer lack of enthusiast features for those CPU's. It not only makes it more difficult on the board partners, who have to figure out a way to shut off entire channels and potentially change the way their M.2 ports are wired, it also adds an entire layer of confusion for the consumer. 

 

That's it. I hope that the 7740X has a weak IMC just for being on the enthusiast platform. That'll teach you people to play god.

 

Except for @done12many2's, I need his to be good for other reasons.

[done12many2]

9 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Yes, and my own words are still true. The 7700k is not an enthusiast CPU. It's only features were made available to nearly every other consumer CPU (aside from maybe TSX which is broken, and VT-d) on it's platform. The 7740X on the other hand, is on an enthusiast platform that offers far more features ( additional PCIe lanes, quad channel memory, CPU raid, etc) and none of them are available to it. It's essentially the same CPU, on a different platform, with none of the features said platform offers.

 

We're saying the same thing. 

 

The only real difference being that I don't see it as too much of an issue. No biggie. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I am not speculating that it won't sell well. You will never find a post in which I said that was the case. I said it will potentially hurt their normal consumer lineup, because who would buy a consumer i7, if you can just buy the "enthusiast" i7 with a better upgrade path? Ryzen is already hurting Intel's smaller lineup by offering real unlocked CPU's and better thread counts for a fraction of the price. Intel's last bastion of defense in the consumer lineup, was the amazingly fast i7's. Now that is being moved to the enthusiast platform, which makes Intel's consumer platform look even less enticing overall. Whether or not this turns out to be true is to be seen, but it's how I feel based on the logic above.

 

Just to clarify, when you say "consumer", you are talking about mainstream, right? 

 

I view both mainstream and extreme as consumer lines. 

 

I guess time will tell on the rest. 

 

9 minutes ago, MageTank said:

That's it. I hope that the 7740X has a weak IMC just for being on the enthusiast platform. 

 

Except for @done12many2's, I need his to be good for other reasons.

 

Haha, always check the fine print. 

 

I'm am interested in seeing how the memory performance is with the new 7740X. I don't expect the x299 variant to differ much from the z270. 

 

I'm going with the Apex provided it's available at launch. I'll pick up a 4 x 8 set of TZ 3600 c16 for use with the 7900X in quad or the 7740X in dual. 

 

I do plan to fill those DIMM2 slots too.

[MageTank]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

We're saying the same thing. 

 

The only real difference being that I don't see it as too much of an issue. No biggie. 

 

 

 

Just to clarify, when you say "consumer", you are talking about mainstream, right? 

 

I view both mainstream and extreme as consumer lines. 

 

I guess time will tell on the rest. 

 

 

Haha, always check the fine print. 

 

I'm am interested in seeing how the memory performance is with the new 7740X. I don't expect the x299 variant to differ much from the z270. 

 

I'm going with the Apex provided it's available at launch. I'll pick up a 4 x 8 set of TZ 3600 c16 for use with the 7900X in quad or the 7740X in dual. 

 

I do plan to fill those DIMM2 slots too.

It will be interesting to see how the DIMM's are wired. If they are going to allow you to still use all 4 DIMM's on the Apex, while in dual channel mode, it might make for a very interesting setup for memory overclocking enthusiasts. That would mean potentially 64GB of extremely high speed memory. Then again, it begs the question of whether or not the 2 slots to the left side of the CPU are mapped out as well as the ones on the right. I wish we had confirmation for how the DIMM's worked for these dual-channel only CPU's. If they have to physically shut down the DIMM's you can use, I'd be extremely disappointed. Nothing I hate more than paying for specific features on a motherboard, and being physically unable to use them. 

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, MageTank said:

It will be interesting to see how the DIMM's are wired. If they are going to allow you to still use all 4 DIMM's on the Apex, while in dual channel mode, it might make for a very interesting setup for memory overclocking enthusiasts. That would mean potentially 64GB of extremely high speed memory. Then again, it begs the question of whether or not the 2 slots to the left side of the CPU are mapped out as well as the ones on the right. I wish we had confirmation for how the DIMM's worked for these dual-channel only CPU's. If they have to physically shut down the DIMM's you can use, I'd be extremely disappointed. Nothing I hate more than paying for specific features on a motherboard, and being physically unable to use them. 

There was a twitter post from HardwareCanucks mentioning the memory configurations are silly for the 7740X and the MB, from the sounds of it not all memory slots work with those CPUs.

[MageTank]

Just now, leadeater said:

There was a twitter post from HardwareCanucks mentioning the memory configurations are silly for the 7740X and the MB, from the sounds of it not all memory slots work with those CPUs.

That would be my worst nightmare x.x

 

Imagine having a DIMM slot die, or never truly knowing if a slot shipped dead, because you used one of those CPU's for a long time, and the product fell outside of warranty. I knew as soon as they segmented the channel count on these CPU's, that board partners were going to be driven insane trying to wire these things. In theory, it would be possible to create some sort of "context switch" (for lack of a better term) to change how the channels function on a BIOS level depending on the CPU installed, but that would take up valuable trace space, and would likely be far more effort than what it's worth. 

 

I also have a fear that there will be physical M.2 slots that are simply shut off when using one of these CPU's, due to the finite amount of wiring they can do. With X299's copious amounts of PCIe lanes on the bigger CPU's, it would make sense to have them wired in a way to use the CPU's PCIe lanes (and not the DMI) so on a CPU that lacks the lanes, these ports might not even work. Again, I hope this is not the case, as it will once again place a vast amount of confusion on the consumer, and even more stress on the board partners. People can defend the existence of these CPU's all they want, but for me, I can only see a massive influx of forum posts arising from the headaches that are these CPU's. This is one of those moments where I truly hope I am wrong.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

There was a twitter post from HardwareCanucks mentioning the memory configurations are silly for the 7740X and the MB, from the sounds of it not all memory slots work with those CPUs.

Wait. So, with a quad channel wired board, using a dual channel CPU, not all 4 channels are usable? The DIMMs tied to two of the channels are completely disabled? Who could have guess?

 

Who?

 

WHO?

 

 

WWWHHHOOOOOOO?

 

6 minutes ago, MageTank said:

People can defend the existence of these CPU's all they want, but for me, I can only see a massive influx of forum posts arising from the headaches that are these CPU's.

I won't disagree with that entirely.

 

6 minutes ago, MageTank said:

This is one of those moments where I truly hope I am wrong.

As much as fun as playing devils advocate is, there's no argument I can make in support of general availability or the 7740X in its current form. Every realistic use case I envision for them ends up being someone that knows what they're doing running one of these part time.

[MageTank]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Wait. So, with a quad channel wired board, using a dual channel CPU, not all 4 channels are usable? The DIMMs tied to two of the channels are completely disabled? Who could have guess?

 

Who?

 

WHO?

 

 

WWWHHHOOOOOOO?

 

I won't disagree with that entirely.

 

As much as fun as playing devils advocate is, there's no argument I can make in support of general availability or the 7740X in its current form. Every realistic use case I envision for them ends up being someone that knows what they're doing running one of these part time.

The only way I can cope with it's existence, is if I pretend it's the rich man's G3258. So far, it's putting me at ease.

[done12many2]

I would imagine that 2 of the 4 DIMM slots will be disabled when running in dual channel. The z270 Apex is only a 2 lot board so I wouldn't expect the x299 Apex to support more then 2 DIMM slots when  configured in dual. 

 

As far as M.2 slots, the Apex has 2 DIMM2 slots which can support 2 x NVMe M.2 SSDs per slot. One slot pipes strait to the CPU lanes while the other slot is routed through the DMI. 

 

I don't expect M.2 configurations to be a big deal with Kaby Lake X, at least on Asus boards. 

 

The only thing I see truly impacted are the DIMM slots and some PCIe slots. 

[Drak3]

Just now, MageTank said:

The only way I can cope with it's existence, is if I pretend it's the rich man's G3258. So far, it's putting me at ease.

Well, it is still $50 cheaper than the hexacore.

I see it as being an idiot test for the masses, and uber niche product for the builders.

[RagnarokDel]

why pay $200 extra for a mobo to get an extra 100-200 mhz? lol

[MageTank]

Just now, RagnarokDel said:

why pay $200 extra for a mobo to get an extra 100-200 mhz? lol

Upgrade path would be the biggest boon. Still, one could argue that allowing us to use cheaper Xeons results in the same stopgap use scenario. I suppose another silver lining with forcing people to use more pricier unlocked chips, is that they can at least test the power delivery and BIOS quality on smaller chips in the mean time. Still, I don't see myself enjoying the existence of these CPU's. I know that some will, and are excited for it, it's just not my cup of tea. I see the fallout of these CPU's being far more trouble than what it's worth. Then again, Intel is known for being confusing with their nomenclature and product segmentation, so I suppose this is just par for the course. 

[Space Reptile]

On ‎18‎.‎06‎.‎2017 at 3:37 PM, YoloSwag said:

That's kinda impossible to ever happen. It's gonna be more impossible than a white raven

 

so its possible?

[YoloSwag]

5 hours ago, Space Reptile said:

- Snip -

 

so its possible?

Well to my defense, you didn't quote my whole post and therefore I will do so below -

On 6/18/2017 at 9:37 PM, YoloSwag said:

That's kinda impossible to ever happen. It's gonna be more impossible than a white raven (which does exist).

 

Well, depends on what you consider "expensive".

I did state it does exist  I'm just saying the chipset and all is gonna be expensive and more impossible to be cheap for the regular folks.