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Threadripper

BuckGup
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So AMD is providing a very promising looking CPU lineup for a fraction of the cost Intel would charge. If we assume it performs as good as it's competition why can AMD charge significantly less? Is Intel extremely over pricing things or AMD making pennies for every dollar? Or both?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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both I believe. Intel on one hand doesnt want to go lower than in the past cause then they would admit overpricing their stuff. On the other hand AMD is seriously underpricing their stuff to get back into the game.

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1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

If we assume it performs as good as it's competition why can AMD charge significantly less?

The infinity fabric allows them to do that, because they don't have to use one big die, they just use 2 smaller ones instead. The larger the die the worse the yields, which increases the price. So the 16 core i9 does cost more than the 16 core Threadripper to manufacture ;)

3 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Intel extremely over pricing things or AMD making pennies for every dollar? Or both?

Intel is overpricing things because their CPUs perform better and AMD has extremely low prices so that they can appeal to a wider audience (more people can afford a $800 CPU, whereas very few people can afford a $1200+ CPU)

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Part of it has to do with brand reputation. Intel has always been seen as the top of the line so they can get away with charging more, plus lack of competition up until recently has also allowed them pretty much free reign.

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Intel has only one die for its CPUs and all RYZEN CPUs use CCX (4 cores on one module, fit multiple modules under IHS)

 

if a CCX fails replace it. Easy to make, even if 3/4 works then put it in a RYZEN 5/3

if a die fails on intels side, whole thing scrapped. 23/24 cores work at 2.5ghz? Scrapped. 

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138 is a good number.

 

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Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

The infinity fabric allows them to do that, because they don't have to use one big die, they just use 2 smaller ones instead. The larger the die the worse the yields, which increases the price. So the 16 core i9 does cost more than the 16 core Threadripper to manufacture ;)

Intel is overpricing things because their CPUs perform better and AMD has extremely low prices so that they can appeal to a wider audience (more people can afford a $800 CPU, whereas very few people can afford a $1200+ CPU)

So if it costs more to make the i9s and you can get similar performance by making more smaller ones on one chip why wouldn't you?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, themctipers said:

Intel has only one die for its CPUs and all RYZEN CPUs use CCX (4 cores on one module, fit multiple modules under IHS)

 

if a CCX fails replace it. Easy to make, even if 3/4 works then put it in a RYZEN 5/3

if a die fails on intels side, whole thing scrapped. 23/24 cores work at 2.5ghz? Scrapped. 

Any disadvantages to using a system like AMD over Intel? Besides massive CPUs

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Just now, BuckGup said:

Any disadvantages to using a system like AMD over Intel? Besides massive CPUs

Infinity fabric needs high bandwidth and now it's bottlenecking CCXs if you don't have fast enough ram since infinity fabric speed is tied with memory speeds. 

Ryzen 5 3600 stock | 2x16GB C13 3200MHz (AFR) | GTX 760 (Sold the VII)| ASUS Prime X570-P | 6TB WD Gold (128MB Cache, 2017)

Samsung 850 EVO 240 GB 

138 is a good number.

 

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It is the same thing as asking why Apple MacBook Air is so much more expensive than equivalent hardware Windows Notebooks, or why Nike and Adiddas cost so much more than ReBook or Umbro.

 

You pay for a brand name so you have bragging rights in a capitalist world.

Personal Desktop":

CPU: Intel Core i7 10700K @5ghz |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock Pro 4 |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z490UD ATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: RX 6900XT Sapphire Nitro+ |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.

Luna, the temporary Desktop:

CPU: AMD R9 7950XT  |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock 4 Pro |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Aorus Master |~| RAM: 32G Kingston HyperX |~| GPU: AMD Radeon RX 7900XTX (Reference) |~| PSU: Corsair HX1000 80+ Platinum |~| Windows Boot Drive: 2x 512GB (1TB total) Plextor SATA SSD (RAID0 volume) |~| Linux Boot Drive: 500GB Kingston A2000 |~| Storage: 4TB WD Black HDD |~| Case: Cooler Master Silencio S600 |~| Display 1 (leftmost): Eizo (unknown model) 1920x1080 IPS @ 60Hz|~| Display 2 (center): BenQ ZOWIE XL2540 1920x1080 TN @ 240Hz |~| Display 3 (rightmost): Wacom Cintiq Pro 24 3840x2160 IPS @ 60Hz 10-bit |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro (games / art) + Linux (distro: NixOS; programming and daily driver)
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Just now, themctipers said:

Infinity fabric needs high bandwidth and now it's bottlenecking CCXs if you don't have fast enough ram since infinity fabric speed is tied with memory speeds. 

Like 3200Mhz or we talking 4600Mhz?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 minute ago, themctipers said:

Intel has only one die for its CPUs and all RYZEN CPUs use CCX (4 cores on one module, fit multiple modules under IHS)

 

if a CCX fails replace it. Easy to make, even if 3/4 works then put it in a RYZEN 5/3

if a die fails on intels side, whole thing scrapped. 23/24 cores work at 2.5ghz? Scrapped. 

Just a small correction, but, 4 cores on a half-die, 8 cores on a single die, and then copy/pasting the die all over the package itself (and 80% of all their 8 core dies are fully functional). Also, if a core fails on intel's side, they just disable it and sell it as something lower. Where do you think all the i5s come from?

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Just now, BuckGup said:

So if it costs more to make the i9s and you can get similar performance by making more smaller ones on one chip why wouldn't you?

Because a single die performs better and Intel doesn't have a version of the Infinity Fabric

1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

Any disadvantages to using a system like AMD over Intel? Besides massive CPUs

The biggest problem is latency, this design vastly increases latency between cores in different CCXs. You also have multiple IMCs, which means that memory speeds will be crap. And you don't have a single L3 cache

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Just now, Princess Cadence said:

It is the same thing as asking why Apple MacBook Air is so much more expensive than equivalent hardware Windows Notebooks, or why Nike and Adiddas cost so much more than ReBook or Umbro.

 

You pay for a brand name so you have bragging rights in a capitalist world.

I will agree apple is expensive but there are more ways to justify it then clothing. I have never understood stupidly expensive clothing

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, BuckGup said:

Like 3200Mhz or we talking 4600Mhz?

If you run 2133mhz ram the infinity fabric will run at 2133

 

if you run 2400 ram the fabric will run at 2400

 

and so on. 

 

At about 3200mhz IIRC it closes the gap with Intel a lot and it isn't the main bottleneck anymore. 

Ryzen 5 3600 stock | 2x16GB C13 3200MHz (AFR) | GTX 760 (Sold the VII)| ASUS Prime X570-P | 6TB WD Gold (128MB Cache, 2017)

Samsung 850 EVO 240 GB 

138 is a good number.

 

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Just now, themctipers said:

If you run 2133mhz ram the infinity fabric will run at 2133

 

if you run 2400 ram the fabric will run at 2400

 

and so on. 

 

At about 3200mhz IIRC it closes the gap with Intel a lot and it isn't the main bottleneck anymore. 

I mean who runs 2133mhz DDR4 though? We have some pretty fast memory now days

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 minute ago, TheRandomness said:

Where do you think all the i5s come from?

Actually i5s have all cores enabled :P They are quad core CPUs

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Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

Actually i5s have all cores enabled :P They are quad core CPUs

Oops. Well, if an i7 isn't stable with hyperthreading or the clocks, then they disable hyperthreading/downclock it and sell it as an (locked) i5 :P

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2 minutes ago, TheRandomness said:

Just a small correction, but, 4 cores on a half-die, 8 cores on a single die, and then copy/pasting the die all over the package itself (and 80% of all their 8 core dies are fully functional). Also, if a core fails on intel's side, they just disable it and sell it as something lower. Where do you think all the i5s come from?

LTT fucked up and now I have to rewrite this. 

 

Failed i7 -> i3

failed i5 -> celeron or pentium. 

 

i5 / i7s are made separately. 

 

 

At least that's what I remember a while back (haswell)

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138 is a good number.

 

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1 minute ago, themctipers said:

If you run 2133mhz ram the infinity fabric will run at 2133

 

if you run 2400 ram the fabric will run at 2400

AFAIK, the infinity fabric runs at half the speed of the memory so if you run 2133 it runs at 1066, if you run 2400 it runs at 1200 ;)

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K | Motherboard: AsRock X99 Extreme4 | Graphics Card: Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 Gaming | RAM: 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws4 2133MHz | Storage: 1 x Samsung 860 EVO 1TB | 1 x WD Green 2TB | 1 x WD Blue 500GB | PSU: Corsair RM750x | Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro (White) | Cooling: Arctic Freezer i32

 

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Just now, BuckGup said:

I will agree apple is expensive but there are more ways to justify it then clothing. I have never understood stupidly expensive clothing

Yes, obviously this ain't the "only" reason why Intel has higher prices than AMD but sure is part of it, we can not deny in our capitalism way of life nowadays owning expensive shit to show off to other people is pretty much ALL the companies and governments wants from people, the whole "have to show off" mantra is what keeps the economy alive.

 

If every one would settle for just having something functional without adding luxuries of a specific brand, economy would die like it did on Soviet Union, being able to feel good about owning something exclusive is the very essence of today's market.

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1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

I mean who runs 2133mhz DDR4 though? We have some pretty fast memory now days

I run 1066 pls help

 

 

compatibility, cost, and anything higher not working. Well that's what it was in March. Right now I think everyone can run 2400mhz or higher. 

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138 is a good number.

 

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2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

AFAIK, the infinity fabric runs at half the speed of the memory so if you run 2133 it runs at 1066, if you run 2400 it runs at 1200 ;)

Don't you mean the normal speed of memory? :P There's a reason it's labelled DDR4-2133 and not DDR4-2133MHz.

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6 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I mean who runs 2133mhz DDR4 though?

I do because my motherboard only supports 2133mhz? :/

 

Intel does not take nearly as much advantage from ram frequency as AMD any ways, I have never felt slowed down because of my ram on my i7 7700 tbh.

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Luna, the temporary Desktop:

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1 minute ago, TheRandomness said:

Don't you mean the normal speed of memory? :P There's a reason it's labelled DDR4-2133 and not DDR4-2133MHz.

481927462be9.jpg

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K | Motherboard: AsRock X99 Extreme4 | Graphics Card: Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 Gaming | RAM: 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws4 2133MHz | Storage: 1 x Samsung 860 EVO 1TB | 1 x WD Green 2TB | 1 x WD Blue 500GB | PSU: Corsair RM750x | Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro (White) | Cooling: Arctic Freezer i32

 

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2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

481927462be9.jpg

So we could potentially see great perf bumps from really fast memory?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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