windows on arm Qualcomm, Microsoft announce Snapdragon 835 PCs with gigabit LTE

[captain_to_fire]

Source 1: Ars Technica

Source 2: Channel9

 

 

At Computex, Qualcomm and Microsoft together announced ARM based Snapdragon 835 powered  PCs running full Windows 10. OEMs PCs such as ASUS, Lenovo, and HP are the first announced manufactures who will build these ARMed based power system. We know that Windows 10 for ARM will have the ability to run x86 32 and 64-bit architecture Win32 programs. This is done via Microsoft WOW technology (an emulation layer, allowing near identical performance as native app)

 

 

More details: https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2017/P4171?ocid=player

 

-- Above was added by GoodBytes to meet Tech News Posting Guidelines.

-- Original post:

 

Quote

Qualcomm's Snapdragon ARM-based systems-on-chips are mainstays of the smartphone world, but the company is now positioning them as more than just smartphone processors: in conjunction with Microsoft and the new Windows 10 for ARM processors, Qualcomm is now pitching the chips as components of a new PC platform that brings together the best of the PC and the smartphone.

The Snapdragon 835 chip, incorporating Qualcomm's latest X16 LTE modem, forms the basis of the Snapdragon Mobile PC Platform. Qualcomm claims that using the Snapdragon platform will offer a combination of the PC form factor and breadth of software, with features that are standard in smartphones: on-the-go connectivity, light weight, silent operation, long battery life, and no fan.

Qualcomm says that PCs built using the new chips will offer up to 50 percent more battery life than x86 systems, with four- to five-times longer standby times. They'll take the Connected Standby capability already found in some Windows PCs—this allows the system to do things like sync mail and receive notifications even when "sleeping"—and make it better, thanks to their LTE connectivity.

 

With a Snapdragon inside your PC, you'll no longer need Wi-Fi to fetch your latest e-mail and catch up on Twitter. Instead, you'll be able to get online wherever there's cellular connectivity. The X16 modem supports up to gigabit LTE connections, too. So as long as your network operator is cooperative and has embraced the cutting edge, this mobile connection will be fast, too.

 

So good for Microsoft. But it begs the question, if full Windows 10 can run x86/64 apps on an ARM tablet, what is Windows 10S for? I just hope that X16 LTE modem supports 1800, 2100, and 700 MHz bands. I can see this going well unlike the dreaded Windows RT whose application support is a ghost town.

Edited May 31, 2017 by GoodBytes
Fix formatting, and brough the news post to Tech News guidelines

[Qub3d]

OK, I know I jumped the gun on Windows 10s, but this seems like a literal resurrection of WinRT. Maybe they think the unified Windows Platform apps are numerous enough to support it this time?

 

1 hour ago, hey_yo_ said:

if full Windows 10 can run x86/64 apps on an ARM tablet, what is Windows 10S for?

I don't think it can, at least not efficiently. The 10S push is to encourage developers to publish their app, or at least a version of it, on the windows store, which requires packaging an app in their new unified system.

[captain_to_fire]

15 minutes ago, Qub3d said:

OK, I know I jumped the gun on Windows 10s, but this seems like a literal resurrection of WinRT. Maybe they think the unified Windows Platform apps are numerous enough to support it this time?

No wonder they've successfully wooed Apple and Spotify to port their apps to the Windows Store. Microsoft knows that roughly only ten people use their Groove Music service, many of which use Spotify, and a lot of PC users also own an iPhone and sync contents via iTunes.

 

I'm not holding my breath that this will suddenly cause developers to port all of their apps to the Windows Store. I mean, Creative Cloud and AutoCAD on the Windows Store? Not a chance.

 

[Qub3d]

5 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I'm not holding my breath that this will suddenly cause developers to port all of their apps to the Windows Store. I mean, Creative Cloud and AutoCAD on the Windows Store? Not a chance.

 

True. Then again, these users will usually be willing to pay for the full edition and hardware. I doubt a CAD engineer is really the target market for an ARM PC anyway.

[goodtofufriday]

Maybe now we can do something with the vast amount of unwanted Surface RT tablets.

[captain_to_fire]

40 minutes ago, Qub3d said:

True. Then again, these users will usually be willing to pay for the full edition and hardware. I doubt a CAD engineer is really the target market for an ARM PC anyway.

Which is why Windows 10S doesn't offer any sort of practicality. I have a few ideas as to the target audience of the Windows 10 on ARM PCs;

1. Sales agents/sales representatives (thanks to the LTE-A modem)
2. Businessmen (relying on Exchange and Office)
3. College students (that only rely on Office 365)
4. Fine arts and design students (assuming the ARM tablet has a stylus)
5. People who have extra cash to spend

I think the Windows 10 on ARM could sell better than Windows 10S devices.

36 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

Maybe now we can do something with the vast amount of unwanted Surface RT tablets.

Put them in a recycling center and extract all the precious metals in it. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by hey_yo_

[GoodBytes]

You can see on the pictures the large amount of free space with the Snapdragon SoC over Intel.

This is obviously done in such a way to minimize production cost, as we can see from our smartphones internal boards being MUCH smaller.

Just wanted to mention something interesting.

[captain_to_fire]

15 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

You can see on the pictures the large amount of free space with the Snapdragon SoC over Intel.

This is obviously done in such a way to minimize production cost, as we can see from our smartphones internal boards being MUCH smaller.

Just wanted to mention something interesting.

OEMs could use that extra free space to cram in more Lithium-Ion batteries.

 

56 minutes ago, Qub3d said:

True. Then again, these users will usually be willing to pay for the full edition and hardware. I doubt a CAD engineer is really the target market for an ARM PC anyway.

I'm curious what will happen to Windows Store apps like Gears of War which demands x64 processor (at least an i5-3470 or FX-6300) and a graphics card with at least 2GB VRAM when launched in an ARM environment. Is something like an Adreno 540 GPU and octa-core Kyro CPU inside the Snapdragon 835 SoC be able to even at 720p low settings?

[Drak3]

51 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Which is why Windows 10S doesn't offer any sort of practicality

For consumers it doesn't. For IT management, it can.

[captain_to_fire]

Just now, Drak3 said:

For consumers it doesn't. For IT management, it can.

Most of the features of Windows 10S like controlling which applications to run is already available in the Pro and Enterprise versions of Windows 10 via Group Policy. 

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Qub3d said:

OK, I know I jumped the gun on Windows 10s, but this seems like a literal resurrection of WinRT. Maybe they think the unified Windows Platform apps are numerous enough to support it this time?

Windows RT was poor decision after poor decisions. The only thing in common Windows 10 on ARM and Windows RT is that it runs on an ARM CPU. That is all.

• You can download, install and run any software you want under Windows 10 for ARM
• Support Win32 programs compiled for x86 architecture (32 and 64-bit)
• You have the desktop (not just for Office)
• You can run UWP apps (obviously)

 

1 hour ago, Qub3d said:

I don't think it can, at least not efficiently. The 10S push is to encourage developers to publish their app, or at least a version of it, on the windows store, which requires packaging an app in their new unified system.

Windows 10 S was designed for schools and students. All it is, is Windows 10 Pro with:

• Locked to App Store only (on any WIn10: Start > Settings > Apps > Apps & Feature > Installing app, change drop down field: "Allow app from anywhere" to "Allow apps from the Store only". Remember, that you can run any apps in the Store. For example, F.lux was recently added to the Store. They can install and run it, despite being a Win32 packaged as UWP app, and not a native UWP app. iTunes is coming, Spotify is already there. Microsoft sees that  there is a market for students who they prefer a safe and secure environment. They don't want to deal with malware, viruses, ransomware, and computer problems. They probably have another PC for that. They just want security for their school system, so that everything is up and running properly.
   
• A wizard for teacher to configure limitations, pre-installed apps, joining a domain, and few other things (wireless settings for example) which they put on a USB flash drive, and all they get to do, is plug it to a new Windows 10 S system, turn it on, and Windows 10 S will import the settings, configure everything, and ready to go for school environment. The teacher can pull out the Flash drive, go to another new Win10S powered PC and repeat. Many schools

[Sniperfox47]

42 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows RT was poor decision after poor decisions. The only thing in common Windows 10 on ARM and Windows RT is that it runs on an ARM CPU. That is all.

• You can download, install and run any software you want under Windows 10 for ARM
• Support Win32 programs compiled for x86 architecture (32 and 64-bit)
• You have the desktop (not just for Office)
• You can run UWP apps (obviously)

Win32/Win64 Applications can also be compiled for ARM directly and offered for download outside the Windows store can't they? I thought they mentioned that in their "Developing for Windows 10 for ARM" talk.

 

So it shouldn't be too long before we start to see things like Chrome ported to ARM for better performance.

[randomhkkid]

20 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Win32/Win64 Applications can also be compiled for ARM directly and offered for download outside the Windows store can't they? I thought they mentioned that in their "Developing for Windows 10 for ARM" talk.

 

So it shouldn't be too long before we start to see things like Chrome ported to ARM for better performance.

I sure hope so! Pretty sure this was demonstrated by Adobe with Photoshop.

[GoodBytes]

29 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Win32/Win64 Applications can also be compiled for ARM directly and offered for download outside the Windows store can't they? I thought they mentioned that in their "Developing for Windows 10 for ARM" talk.

 

So it shouldn't be too long before we start to see things like Chrome ported to ARM for better performance.

Yes. A Win32 32 or 64-bit program compiled for ARM 32 or 64-bit, be downloaded and executed under Windows 10 for ARM.

 

[SansVarnic]

*Triggered*

[captain_to_fire]

49 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

*Triggered*

Why?

[Zodiark1593]

And all of a sudden, Intel went from being unchallenged in the high end desktop/workstation market to having to contend with AMD, and potential ARM competitors (if a future Snapdragon iteration comes with PCI-e). 

 

Though it remains to be seen as to how well emulation will function in regards to performance sensitive applications.

[captain_to_fire]

20 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

I assume it will also be a phone or phone sized device?

Nope. Just a tablet. 

[captain_to_fire]

24 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

And all of a sudden, Intel went from being unchallenged in the high end desktop/workstation market to having to contend with AMD, and potential ARM competitors (if a future Snapdragon iteration comes with PCI-e). 

 

Though it remains to be seen as to how well emulation will function in regards to performance sensitive applications.

Remember when Apple's own A10 Fusion scored higher than Intel's Xeon E5-2697 in Geekbench. Yeah, Intel should go back to their R&D labs. I don't think Ryzen is the only thing that should scare Intel at the moment. 

 

That emulation thing, I think it would be similar as to how a Linux distro runs inside Virtual Box. I don't think the Adreno 540 GPU can run a AAA title as smooth as a discrete desktop graphics card. It may have a similar performance with Intel Iris Pro but not the likes of AMD or NVIDIA.

[SansVarnic]

2 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

Why?

Just because.

 

 

/s

[79wjd]

43 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Remember when Apple's own A10 Fusion scored higher than Intel's Xeon E5-2697 in Geekbench. Yeah, Intel should go back to their R&D labs. I don't think Ryzen is the only thing that should scare Intel at the moment. 

 

That emulation thing, I think it would be similar as to how a Linux distro runs inside Virtual Box. I don't think the Adreno 540 GPU can run a AAA title as smooth as a discrete desktop graphics card. It may have a similar performance with Intel Iris Pro but not the likes of AMD or NVIDIA.

As I recall, Geekbench is a trash benchmark on x86. 

 

I think you might be overestimating the Adreno 540. I'd guess that it's not too far off from Kaby Lake's HD 630.

[captain_to_fire]

30 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

So it will be a shitty Surface Pro? 

I don't know. Probably not. I have my speculations but I'm not drawing conclusions until the ARM powered Windows 10 PCs came and review outlets start corroborating each other. 

22 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

As I recall, Geekbench is a trash benchmark on x86. 

 

I think you might be overestimating the Adreno 540. I'd guess that it's not too far off from Kaby Lake's HD 630.

Intel will still remain the dominant processor for the years to come but given the not so significant performance differences between Skylake & Kaby Lake, Intel should probably get back to their R&D labs. The market for Xeons isn't that big in comparison to the i-series for consumers (especially mobile computers) and that is where ARM could start to gnaw away Intel's user base.

 

The Ryzen APU's...probably not.