Modular Graphics Cards

[manikyath]

13 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

 

The topic of the thread is flawed and won't happen so I won't comment there.

 

However what you have said above is very true. The problem is there are Nvdia sheep.

 

The 1050Ti is a piece of shit when compared to the RX470

 

They are the same price (excluding special sales) and the 470 wipes the floor with it in terms of performance

 

However the 1050Ti has had less time on the market yet has DOUBLE the market share of the 470. You/I/We the consumers do this to ourselves and it is our own fault. We don't buy enough of the competitions offering even when they kill Nvidia at the same price point. Therefore Nvidia are like lol just feed em shit they lap it up.

as an nvidia guy (primarily out of habit) i wont deny the existance of sheep

 

that said, there's more innovation beyond just performance, on both sides. where the R9 295x2 is a hilareous furnace, it is now getting cut painfully close by CF RX 480's, which come in at a chilling ~200 watts less TDP

 

EDIT: i totally wrote SLI RX480's, i admit i failed, and changed that to crossfire before anyone noticed

[H0R53]

4 minutes ago, manikyath said:

its the guys that briefly held the speed record for single GPU before getting beaten out by a newer card, they had to actually dremel their titan X in half after the VRMs on the board itself caught fire.

They wouldn't have to do that if the GPU core was on a socket and the memory chips were slottable instead of on ball grid arrays.

[manikyath]

2 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

They wouldn't have to do that if the GPU core was on a socket and the memory chips were slottable instead of on ball grid arrays.

but.. look at the video, that's the amount of soldering they needed to tap the VRMs trough, you simply cant put that trough a socket and expect it to work reliably

EDIT: for reference, about half way trough the video is where the on-board VRMs catch fire and they go for the slice.

[H0R53]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

but.. look at the video, that's the amount of soldering they needed to tap the VRMs trough, you simply cant put that trough a socket and expect it to work reliably

We did it with CPUs. Remember how everything used to be slotted on the motherboard, like CPU cache, the southbridge, etc? Now it's all on the CPU. Stop trying to shrink the die and shrink everything else.

[M.A.P]

Why did Google Aura fail? Due to it's modularity same with modular GPUs they'll fail as people just don't want those things and want everything ready made. They don't care about price they feel that modularity is too complicated or they'll fill up with many parts to take away and put back on and many other reasons. To be simple people don't like modularity it is a dream for tech-savvys as it is interesting and we feel that modularity is revolutionary. It sounds cool to have modularity and it really is but majority of the people just want things ready made so why companies will make modular products when they suffer with loss if they do that?

[tom_w141]

5 minutes ago, manikyath said:

as an nvidia guy (primarily out of habit) i wont deny the existance of sheep

 

that said, there's more innovation beyond just performance, on both sides. where the R9 295x2 is a hilareous furnace, it is now getting cut painfully close by SLI RX 480's, which come in at a chilling ~200 watts less TDP

Believe me i'm not saying its wrong to buy green. I have a 1070 and love it  but that is primarily because this time around AMD didn't have a card aimed at my market sector so the choice was made for me. If there was say an RX 490 that was just as good at a lower price or better at the same price then I may have had that theoretical 490. My point was the people that just blindly buy without weighing up each sides offering are killing competition in the industry. I expanded upon my previous post a bit to explain this but it was an edit so you may not have seen it. 

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, H0R53 said:

We did it with CPUs. Remember how everything used to be slotted on the motherboard, like CPU cache, the southbridge, etc? Now it's all on the CPU. Stop trying to shrink the die and shrink everything else.

remember how everything used to run at 133MHz? well.. i suggest you go look up how far electric signals can travel at 3 GHz

[H0R53]

Just now, manikyath said:

remember how everything used to run at 133MHz? well.. i suggets you go look up how far electric signals can travel at 3 GHz

Is there something wrong with 133mhz? My X5460 build had a 133mhz base FSB for most of the components and can still run Fallout 4 on High.

[manikyath]

Just now, H0R53 said:

Is there something wrong with 133mhz? My X5460 build had a 133mhz base FSB for most of the components and can still run Fallout 4 on High.

but base FSB isnt "everything", and isnt even close in performance to what's available now.

 

you're essentially talking against your own argument now. you want people to innovate, and for that go back to the kind of performance we had 10 years ago

[App4that]

5 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

We did it with CPUs. Remember how everything used to be slotted on the motherboard, like CPU cache, the southbridge, etc? Now it's all on the CPU. Stop trying to shrink the die and shrink everything else.

How do you shrink everything else if it's in a socket and slot? That ball grid aray is why you can buy those cards at the cost you can. HBM2 will reduce the size of cards, that's how you shrink cards. 

[Damascus]

15 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

However the 1050Ti has had less time on the market yet has DOUBLE the market share of the 470. You/I/We the consumers do this to ourselves and it is our own fault. We don't buy enough of the competitions offering even when they kill Nvidia at the same price point. Therefore Nvidia are like lol just feed em shit they lap it up.

I have a GTX 1050 ti...  I WANTED an RX 470 or 480.  They didn't come in a small enough footprint to fit in my case.  AMD needs to create products  or they won't be purchased.  They might be doing well this gen but it took AMD how many years to refresh CPU's?  5? 6?  A massive amount of market share was lost to intel and Nvidia due to AMD not be part of the economy for so long.  Don't get upset that Nvidia dominates when AMD did jack all for so long...  I want AMD to win, even buying AMD stocks but don't  bitch about how badly Nvidia is beating AMD.

 

16 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Because of greed and capitalism. Take the drug/pharmaceutical industry as an example. They make lots off people who need the stuff, who have no choice but to put up with obscene prices. But when the companies put to question they cite costs and employment as a necessity for the high price. Although you know its BS. It isn't nearly as bad in the graphics card industry as there is healthy competition among AIBs. It will turn real ugly if say, AMD wasn't around.

You can buy a GPU for $150 (1050 ti) that outperforms a GPU 2 gen back (770) that launched for $400.

 

The $249 GTX 1060 beats both last gens gtx 980 ($549) and 3 gens ago top dog, the GTX 690 ($999!)

 

The R&D going into each gen of cards costs more than many people will earn in a hundred lifetimes and even still it gets better every gen.  These are not obscene prices

 

In terms of AMD vs Nvidia, I can't really comment.  I can show that Nvidia is willing to compete with themselves - the 1080 ti ($700) on par with the $1200 titan.

[manikyath]

Just now, Damascus said:

I have a GTX 1050 ti...  I WANTED an RX 470 or 480.  They didn't come in a small enough footprint to fit in my case.  AMD needs to create products  or they won't be purchased.  They might be doing well this gen but it took AMD how many years to refresh CPU's?  5? 6?  A massive amount of market share was lost to intel and Nvidia due to AMD not be part of the economy for so long.  Don't get upset that Nvidia dominates when AMD did jack all for so long...  I want AMD to win, even buying AMD stocks but don't  bitch about how badly Nvidia is beating AMD.

i'm actually waiting in anticipation hoping there'll be an RX550 thats passively cooled.. i really dont want my GT640 anymore, and i just need *A* GPU.

[H0R53]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

but base FSB isnt "everything", and isnt even close in performance to what's available now.

 

you're essentially talking against your own argument now. you want people to innovate, and for that go back to the kind of performance we had 10 years ago

I'm not saying to go that far back, but to innovate you must make compromises. You can't do everything at once. If modularity was long-lived enough that people saw the benefit we'd all be holding modular phones, but because the human race is a lazy ass and doesn't care to learn about the world we live in or the things we use we don't have nice things like modular cell phones.

 

1 minute ago, Damascus said:

I have a GTX 1050 ti...  I WANTED an RX 470 or 480.  They didn't come in a small enough footprint to fit in my case.  AMD needs to create products  or they won't be purchased.  They might be doing well this gen but it took AMD how many years to refresh CPU's?  5? 6?  A massive amount of market share was lost to intel and Nvidia due to AMD not be part of the economy for so long.  Don't get upset that Nvidia dominates when AMD did jack all for so long...  I want AMD to win, even buying AMD stocks but don't  bitch about how badly Nvidia is beating AMD.

 

You can buy a GPU for $150 (1050 ti) that outperforms a GPU 2 gen back (770) that launched for $400.

 

The $249 GTX 1060 beats both last gens gtx 980 ($549) and 3 gens ago top dog, the GTX 690 ($999!)

 

The R&D going into each gen of cards costs more than many people will earn in a hundred lifetimes and even still it gets better every gen.  THESE ARE NOT OBSCENE PRICES

 

In terms of AMD vs Nvidia, I can't really comment.  I can show that Nvidia is willing to compete with themselves - the 1080 ti ($700) on par with the $1200 titan.

I have a 1050ti SSC 4GB as well as some other GPUs, they are all nVidia.

Obscene prices are $800 for a GTX 1080ti Founder's. If it was $400 or $500 I could get one but $800? Shit I'd have to skip rent for a month.

[Damascus]

Just now, manikyath said:

i'm actually waiting in anticipation hoping there'll be an RX550 thats passively cooled.. i really dont want my GT640 anymore, and i just need *A* GPU.

You'll probably get one, Palit (bless thier scientists souls) have been pumping out passive cooled and ultra slim GPUs - that 11070 actually made me legitimately happy  slot 

[manikyath]

Just now, H0R53 said:

but to innovate you must make compromises.

and we have decided that to innovate speeds, we must compromise swapping out VRAM sizes, which not even AIB partenrs bother with anymore (its a thing they can do, but it's not worth it.)

[App4that]

1 minute ago, H0R53 said:

I'm not saying to go that far back, but to innovate you must make compromises. You can't do everything at once. If modularity was long-lived enough that people saw the benefit we'd all be holding modular phones, but because the human race is a lazy ass and doesn't care to learn about the world we live in or the things we use we don't have nice things like modular cell phones.

 

I have a 1050ti SSC 4GB as well as some other GPUs, they are all nVidia.

Obscene prices are $800 for a GTX 1080ti Founder's. If it was $400 or $500 I could get one but $800? Shit I'd have to skip rent for a month.

700 bucks for a 1080ti here, not sure where you're shopping. The 1080ti's performance is due to the die shrink. All about those transistors. 

 

For now. 

[H0R53]

Just now, App4that said:

700 bucks for a 1080ti here, not sure where you're shopping. The 1080ti's performance is due to the die shrink. All about those transistors. 

 

For now. 

The die is small enough, we're hitting the silicon limit. Now make everything else smaller, the smaller it is the less power it uses...three 8-pins...jeez

[Damascus]

1 minute ago, H0R53 said:

I have a 1050ti SSC 4GB as well as some other GPUs, they are all nVidia.

Obscene prices are $800 for a GTX 1080ti Founder's. If it was $400 or $500 I could get one but $800? Shit I'd have to skip rent for a month.

I was aiming that comment more the person I responded to.  Also, I'm kinda in agreement that it costs a lot to get a 1080 ti - its for people who are spending thousands on a system already.  You and I aren't the target audience, guys with a $300-$500 budget get a 1070 or 1080.  Both cards can max out (or come close to maxing out) 1440p and the 1080 comes close to max 4k.  This is like saying that a porcshe is too expensive because it costs more than you earn in a year.  (not throwing shade lol, its same for me)

[manikyath]

2 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

The die is small enough, we're hitting the silicon limit. Now make everything else smaller, the smaller it is the less power it uses...three 8-pins...jeez

and.. sockets would somehow pose a better performance benefit?

[TheGhzGuy]

2 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

The die is small enough, we're hitting the silicon limit. Now make everything else smaller, the smaller it is the less power it uses...three 8-pins...jeez

And now we'll have to start using a different material.

[Damascus]

Just now, TheGhzGuy said:

And now we'll have to start using a different material.

YAY, GRAPHITE!

[App4that]

Just now, H0R53 said:

The die is small enough, we're hitting the silicon limit. Now make everything else smaller, the smaller it is the less power it uses...three 8-pins...jeez

No, not even close. We follow the cost effective limit. 

 

Quick analogy.

 

You have a controller with only 2 buttons. How complex can you make the games? You'll design the game to take advantage of the buttons being in both positions, right? You then have 4 possibilities of imput. Welcome to computer science. 

[tom_w141]

12 minutes ago, Damascus said:

I have a GTX 1050 ti...  I WANTED an RX 470 or 480.  They didn't come in a small enough footprint to fit in my case.  AMD needs to create products  or they won't be purchased.  They might be doing well this gen but it took AMD how many years to refresh CPU's?  5? 6?  A massive amount of market share was lost to intel and Nvidia due to AMD not be part of the economy for so long.  Don't get upset that Nvidia dominates when AMD did jack all for so long...  I want AMD to win, even buying AMD stocks but don't  bitch about how badly Nvidia is beating AMD.

 

You can buy a GPU for $150 (1050 ti) that outperforms a GPU 2 gen back (770) that launched for $400.

 

The $249 GTX 1060 beats both last gens gtx 980 ($549) and 3 gens ago top dog, the GTX 690 ($999!)

 

The R&D going into each gen of cards costs more than many people will earn in a hundred lifetimes and even still it gets better every gen.  

 

In terms of AMD vs Nvidia, I can't really comment.  I can show that Nvidia is willing to compete with themselves - the 1080 ti ($700) on par with the $1200 titan.

I'm slightly confused you agreed with my post then argued the contrary  However here is my counter:

 

AMD has not been out of the GPU market anywhere near as much as they were out of the CPU market. AMD have often been the first to innovate on the GPU front but still their stuff never sells aswell even when it outperforms. The reason it took so long to come back on the CPU front was a combination of a very bad architecture and the dirty dealing by Intel for OEMs to exclude AMD from products, which they eventually got caught out for (see the court case by googling). The fact that they came back so strongly on the CPU front at all is near miraculous! Also the tables used to be turned and AMD was top dog if you can remember that far back. Intel gained a monopoly and stopped innovating by pushing out quad core after quad core at high prices and high profit. If competition had remained then we sure as hell wouldn't be on quad cores still!

 

Anyway enough about CPUs thats a different story. My original point was AMD GPUs that outperform Nvidia ones at the same price point yet still don't sell - this shows a clear manufacturer bias when the facts don't stack up.

 

Lastly not a reply to me but you are a brave man bringing up the 1080Ti. Poor Poor Titan XP owners (big P)

 

Sucker punch 1: Launching a better performing card 6 months later (1080Ti) at half the price you paid.

 

Sucker Punch 2: Launching a new Titan Xp 3 months after that at the price you paid for your Titan XP which at the time was advertised as the pinnacle of the pascal architecture but turned out to be a lie and it was held back the whole time so they could release the real Titan Xp a year on.

 

Dick move Nividia....

 

 

[TheGhzGuy]

1 minute ago, Damascus said:

YAY, GRAPHITE!

CARBON NANOTUBE TRANSISTORS! -Keys, many times.

[H0R53]

Just now, manikyath said:

and.. sockets would somehow pose a better performance benefit?

We're getting off point now.

Modularity comes from wanting a specific thing when it doesn't readily exist - say I buy a modular GPU with 2GB of GDDR5 and a 1000mhz core for $100. Expensive for the performance, but I can readily keep upgrading the memory and the core until it's phased out by the company, like my motherboard. I had an i5 3330. Didn't have the performance I wanted. So I saved and got a Xeon E3 1240. I had 6GB of RAM. Needed more. Saved and got 8GB.