Civil War in a University course

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

So there's this war between in the instructor (not a professor yet, Graduate student) of one of my computing courses and the students since the first week of the semester. This course is required for cooperative education and our degree so people are a bit touchy when it comes to who's teaching. One Friday, frustrations hit a critical point after the midterm results (48% average) was released and there was a verbal battle back and forth between the instructor and several students for half of the class. This morning, we were all given emails saying the class on Monday was cancelled because of this behaviour and that future office hours have all been cancelled for the rest of the term. Is an instructor even allowed to pull a stunt off like this? I do acknowledge that the stuff said by the students involved that day were a bit out of line and rude. But an instructor is supposed to show a level of professionalism regardless of what happens aren't they? Especially when we're talking about a University course. The Computing Science student union is currently discussing the issue with the department. What should I expect to come out of all of this? There's only a month or so left in the term.

[AshleyAshes]

Why are you asking us?  Doesn't your school have an ombudsmen who's express job is to answer these questions and assist you with this?

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

57 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Why are you asking us?  Doesn't your school have an ombudsmen who's express job is to answer these questions and assist you with this?

Just want to know if anyone had similar circumstances before and what the outcome ended up being. Also want to know how to protect myself because as much as I want to fight this head on, I still have a degree to complete and it's not worth it for me to further put my own future in question than it already is.

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

So there's this war between in the instructor (not a professor yet, Graduate student) of one of my computing courses and the students since the first week of the semester. This course is required for cooperative education and our degree so people are a bit touchy when it comes to who's teaching. One Friday, frustrations hit a critical point after the midterm results (48% average) was released and there was a verbal battle back and forth between the instructor and several students for half of the class. This morning, we were all given emails saying the class on Monday was cancelled because of this behaviour and that future office hours have all been cancelled for the rest of the term. Is an instructor even allowed to pull a stunt off like this? I do acknowledge that the stuff said by the students involved that day were a bit out of line and rude. But an instructor is supposed to show a level of professionalism regardless of what happens aren't they? Especially when we're talking about a University course. The Computing Science student union is currently discussing the issue with the department. What should I expect to come out of all of this? There's only a month or so left in the term.

Go to the dean of the college and get a the lazy fuck fired. If one of my professors pulled this shit, thats what I would do. My sister had an issue with a professor once, the Dean found the professor in the wrong and fired the fucker halfway thru the semester. My sister ended up failing the course as the professor sucked and the Dean really couldnt do anything with the grades at that point. I think they found a new professor to teach the course. 

 

Id also advise you to write a review on ratemyprofessor.com so you can warn other students about this professor so they dont take the course with them. 

[2FA]

That sounds like almost the entirety of my school's physics department lol. Not a single good professor though one is easy on the grading so there is at least that.

[Seamonster420]

Every University is a little bit different but at the one I attended, not having office hours or otherwise being available to your students for a certain number of hours a week was grounds for loss of tenure.

[AshleyAshes]

7 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Just want to know if anyone had similar circumstances before and what the outcome ended up being. Also want to know how to protect myself because as much as I want to fight this head on, I still have a degree to complete and it's not worth it for me to further put my own future in question than it already is.

Go.  To.  The.  Ombudsmen.

[LAwLz]

Not sure about how it is in the US, but here in Sweden we got a letter for each course which described what the course was about, and what knowledge was needed to pass. Lectures were provided but optional. Since you knew what the course required you to know in order to pass, anyone who failed only had themselves to blame.

 

The biggest difference I found between high school and university was that it's not the teacher's job to make sure you pass. It's your own job and responsibility. Don't like the teacher's/professor's method of teaching? Then you are responsible for finding another way of learning what is outline in the "course letter". Did you not get a list of books and/or other course material to read? If you did, did everyone who got below 48% read all that material and understood it well enough to answer questions related to the material in the book, but perhaps not explicitly stated?

 

I don't know what the students or the teacher argued about, but the 48% average is not enough evidence by itself to say the teacher did anything wrong. Especially not if it's fairly new students who are used to the cakewalk that is high school, or the cakewalk that are the introduction courses.

But again, nobody on this forum except you will know what actually happened so you can't expect us to give good answers. Just ask someone at your school who isn't a student directly involved.

 

In my experience, a lot of students think teachers are there to make sure you pass the tests, but that's just a bad excuse for shifting responsibility to away from you and on to someone else.

At university, the teacher's job is to tell you what you need to know, give suggestions and guidance on how to acquire that knowledge, then set up ways for you to demonstrate what you know, and judge how knowledgeable you are. It is your job to actually learn and demonstrate that knowledge.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Not sure about how it is in the US, but here in Sweden we got a letter for each course which described what the course was about, and what knowledge was needed to pass. Lectures were provided but optional. Since you knew what the course required you to know in order to pass, anyone who failed only had themselves to blame.

 

The biggest difference I found between high school and university was that it's not the teacher's job to make sure you pass. It's your own job and responsibility. Don't like the teacher's/professor's method of teaching? Then you are responsible for finding another way of learning what is outline in the "course letter". Did you not get a list of books and/or other course material to read? If you did, did everyone who got below 48% read all that material and understood it well enough to answer questions related to the material in the book, but perhaps not explicitly stated?

 

I don't know what the students or the teacher argued about, but the 48% average is not enough evidence by itself to say the teacher did anything wrong. Especially not if it's fairly new students who are used to the cakewalk that is high school, or the cakewalk that are the introduction courses.

But again, nobody on this forum except you will know what actually happened so you can't expect us to give good answers. Just ask someone at your school who isn't a student directly involved.

 

In my experience, a lot of students think teachers are there to make sure you pass the tests, but that's just a bad excuse for shifting responsibility to away from you and on to someone else.

At university, the teacher's job is to tell you what you need to know, give suggestions and guidance on how to acquire that knowledge, then set up ways for you to demonstrate what you know, and judge how knowledgeable you are. It is your job to actually learn and demonstrate that knowledge.

Here in the US we have a syllabus which gives similar info. Tells us about the course, contact info for the process as well as office hours and location. Gives us objectives of course and a course schedule. While its your job to make sure you pass the course, some professors suck ass at their jobs and curve grades as a result. Depending on the type of class, you might be in a situation where you HAVE to go to lectures, because your grade depends on attendance. OR in online classes lectures can be posted online or they may just tell you to read the book.  

 

The thing is, professors have to be contactable, if done by email they have to respond within 24 hours. They also have to have office hours. Some do it a set times some require you to make an appointment. If a professor does not do their job, then you go to the Dean to complain. You also have an option to do a course survey at the end of the semester, these are put online so students can read them and decided on a professor. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

-snip-

They first asked about if the average was worrying and if it was going to be scaled. The answer was no and they proceeded to challenge the format of the exam because it was 15 pages of short answer questions, for a 50 minute exam. This was a software development course so I guess I was expecting some application type questions. But there weren't any. All of the questions were asking specifics.

 

And it's not just the midterm that people had issues with. It's the instructor's attitude. Anytime there's a problem, the instructor will not accept responsibility. And when the person does, it's at the last minute. The PowerPoint slides used have animated text that overlaps with existing text and there have been times where text is the same colour as the background. The instructor blames it on the campus computers and I expect no one would buy excuses like that. When we first started doing assignments, we originally had to use Eclipse Helios for Android development. Yea, Helios. And we kept telling the instructor that it does not work well in Windows 10 or newer versions of OSX and just kept saying it's our problem. Only until 4 days before the assignment was due did the instructor admit defeat and allowed the use of Eclipse Neon (as it should've been from day one) with no sort of extension. Effectively wasting a week and a half of our time.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

13 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Go to the dean of the college and get a the lazy fuck fired. If one of my professors pulled this shit, thats what I would do. My sister had an issue with a professor once, the Dean found the professor in the wrong and fired the fucker halfway thru the semester. My sister ended up failing the course as the professor sucked and the Dean really couldnt do anything with the grades at that point. I think they found a new professor to teach the course. 

 

Id also advise you to write a review on ratemyprofessor.com so you can warn other students about this professor so they dont take the course with them. 

The directors heard about the class and office hour cancellations yesterday night so they immediately arranged a meeting with the students today.

 

The problem with the ratemyprof idea is that... this person isn't a professor. It's a current graduate student so it's not going to affect the person in the long term. It wasn't like the instructor was going to get a tenure here anyways. So I guess that's why there's a lack of care on the instructor's side.

[TacticlTwinkie]

I would definitely go talk to the dean or the head of the department that your class falls into. They would at least look into the situation and could take administrative action if necessary. If you stay silent, nothing will get done.

[divito]

Seems like this case is a mix of an overwhelmed graduate instructor and some entitled students.

As LAwLz deftly pointed out, once you hit college/university, you're paying for your education, and professors/lecturers/instructors are only there to guide you through your assignments (if there are any), your midterms/exams, and help clear up the information they're lecturing on or that you're studying in your course material.

The hand-holding that generally happens in high school disappears, and you have to work for your marks. Fortunately, at plenty of institutions, just raising a fuss about an assignment/professor usually doesn't result in much change, cause at the end of the day, you need to be responsible for the work.

Also, questioning the format or structure for an assignment/exam is odd. If you follow directions, and learn your material, there shouldn't be issues; and if you have questions, respectfully trying to get some time with the professor is normal procedure. For the students that whine that what's in an assignment/exam wasn't part of a lecture or something, that's a weak excuse. The entire point isn't to have everything handed to you for memorization; it's about studying, problem solving, extending your knowledge, being proactive, and asking questions that go beyond the pages of a text book. 

Given that you said the directors have already scheduled a meeting, I'm curious to see how they're going to handle it. Keep us updated!

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 minute ago, divito said:

Seems like this case is a mix of an overwhelmed graduate instructor and some entitled students.

As LAwLz deftly pointed out, once you hit college/university, you're paying for your education, and professors/lecturers/instructors are only there to guide you through your assignments (if there are any), your midterms/exams, and help clear up the information they're lecturing on or that you're studying in your course material.

The hand-holding that generally happens in high school disappears, and you have to work for your marks. Fortunately, at plenty of institutions, just raising a fuss about an assignment/professor usually doesn't result in much change, cause at the end of the day, you need to be responsible for the work.

Also, questioning the format or structure for an assignment/exam is odd. If you follow directions, and learn your material, there shouldn't be issues; and if you have questions, respectfully trying to get some time with the professor is normal procedure. For the students that whine that what's in an assignment/exam wasn't part of a lecture or something, that's a weak excuse. The entire point isn't to have everything handed to you for memorization; it's about studying, problem solving, extending your knowledge, being proactive, and asking questions that go beyond the pages of a text book. 

Given that you said the directors have already scheduled a meeting, I'm curious to see how they're going to handle it. Keep us updated!

The main issue with the exam was it was 15 pages of short answer questions (literally listed out steps of development methods and expanding on them)... for a 50 minute midterm. No one is expecting our hands to be held throughout the course. We're in second year. If we've survived first year, we understand that concept.

[PlayStation 2]

Looking at how the instructor was really pissy, I would try getting something done about it.

That is, if your university cares.

[HarryNyquist]

26 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

It's a current graduate student so it's not going to affect the person in the long term.

I'm betting it will. That will get around the department pretty fast, and when he goes asking for references for other jobs he'd better have some damn good ones outside that department. This isn't going to go well for him at all.

[straight_stewie]

16 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

So there's this war between in the instructor (not a professor yet, Graduate student) of one of my computing courses and the students since the first week of the semester. This course is required for cooperative education and our degree so people are a bit touchy when it comes to who's teaching. One Friday, frustrations hit a critical point after the midterm results (48% average) was released and there was a verbal battle back and forth between the instructor and several students for half of the class. This morning, we were all given emails saying the class on Monday was cancelled because of this behaviour and that future office hours have all been cancelled for the rest of the term. Is an instructor even allowed to pull a stunt off like this? I do acknowledge that the stuff said by the students involved that day were a bit out of line and rude. But an instructor is supposed to show a level of professionalism regardless of what happens aren't they? Especially when we're talking about a University course. The Computing Science student union is currently discussing the issue with the department. What should I expect to come out of all of this? There's only a month or so left in the term.

Well, to me the answer is: both are wrong. Any students who caused an issue should be subject to academic or criminal discipline, depending on the severity of the conflict and if any threats were made. The instructor should also be subject to temporary or permanent discipline, depending on why he/she carried out these actions. If your university is worth anything, then there were other avenues that both the students and the instructor should have taken to resolve any issues.

Without knowing exactly, step by step, what happened between the teacher, the atmosphere he/she created, what the students yelled at the teacher, how the students participated in class, what the teacher yelled back... It's impossible for me to say what the outcome should be.

I can however say this with certainty: This should have never happened. The students are in college, and the teacher is a professional. Both parties should have acted as adults and used the appropriate avenues for arbitration, if arbitration was indeed necessary.

P.S: Instructors often don't design courses. It's highly likely that he/she has little to no say in how the course is laid out, what tests/homeworks look like, or how grading is done.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 minute ago, straight_stewie said:

Well, to me the answer is: both are wrong. Any students who caused an issue should be subject to academic or criminal discipline, depending on the severity of the conflict and if any threats were made. The instructor should also be subject to temporary or permanent discipline, depending on why he/she carried out these actions. If your university is worth anything, then there were other avenues that both the students and the instructor should have taken to resolve any issues.

Without know exactly, step by step, what happened between the teacher, the atmosphere he/she created, what the students yelled at the teacher, how the students participated in class, what the teacher yelled back... It's impossible for me to say what the outcome should be.

I can however say this with certainty: This should have never happened. The students are in college, and the teacher is a professional. Both parties should have acted as adults.

P.S: Instructors often don't design courses. It's highly likely that he/she has little to no say in how the course is laid out, what tests/homeworks look like, or how grading is done.

I agree. While no threats were issued by either side. One of the students was being out of line and rude by basically not allowing the instructor to speak and just generally yelling about what they said. I can't say much here about the atmosphere because it would end up being a book.

 

With regards to design of the course. Instructors here basically have full control on how they wish to organise assessments and assignments. They don't have control over what is covered in the course. But they have full control on how it's delivered, how it'll be assessed, and how much will be assessed at a time.

[WMGroomAK]

46 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

The answer was no and they proceeded to challenge the format of the exam because it was 15 pages of short answer questions, for a 50 minute exam.

While I can understand the frustration with these kind of test results, the key issue of the testing comes down to two factors.  First, was the information presented in the exam something that has already been covered under course material and second, is 3 minutes a reasonable amount of time to read and provide a short answer for each question.  Some upper division classes I took for my degree program were about an hour long and we were expected to provide about 15 to 20 pages of written chemical formulas, diagrams and explanations.  These were tests where I saw people exiting the classroom in tears after completion, however, that does not mean they were wrong.  

 

How the whole issue of the test results and course in general being handled on the other hand is something where there obviously have been missteps by both parties.  In a case like this, I would say that petitioning the Dean of the college/program that you are in for some sort of mediation is the best path forward.  This way both sides can present their issues and look for a reasonable path forward, whether it be curved grading, a separate assignment/instructor or waiving the class in the next semester...  

[AnonymousGuy]

Where the fuck is this Grad student's advisor  to straighten him out?  

 

Also, it's your responsibility to play GPA defense.  I would have dropped this clusterfuck class in a heartbeat or reallocate resources to other courses knowing I'm going to retake this one with someone else.  Sometimes you just get fucked over with a shit course and you have to deal with it. 

[Donut417]

21 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Sometimes you just get fucked over with a shit course and you have to deal with it. 

Thats how my staffing organizations class is going for me. When many class averages are 60 to 70%. You know your getting fucked over. 

[AnonymousGuy]

4 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Thats how my staffing organizations class is going for me. When many class averages are 60 to 70%. You know your getting fucked over. 

I had classes where the high score on a midterm was in the 20's (oh hey you have 5 minutes to design an Op Amp at the transistor level).  Fortunately the professor wasn't a cunt and curved everyone up.

 

There was a physics 101 prof who didn't curve at all and gave the same tests as my prof who did curve.  I felt bad for those poor fuckers.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I had classes where the high score on a midterm was in the 20's (oh hey you have 5 minutes to design an Op Amp at the transistor level).  Fortunately the professor wasn't a cunt and curved everyone up.

 

There was a physics 101 prof who didn't curve at all and gave the same tests as my prof who did curve.  I felt bad for those poor fuckers.

EMU looks at that though. So if a professor has too many failing students then they might start looking at the professor funny. BUT professors cant make things too easy either. I like classes that have a challenge, but I actually learn something. I have learn nothing out of my staffing class, other than the professor is a cunt. 

[WMGroomAK]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

EMU looks at that though. So if a professor has too many failing students then they might start looking at the professor funny. BUT professors cant make things too easy either. I like classes that have a challenge, but I actually learn something. I have learn nothing out of my staffing class, other than the professor is a cunt. 

Funny deal is, the Math Department t my local university has set the Calc I bar so high that they routinely fail 40 to 50% of their students and on average, most of the students have to take it 3 to 4 times to actually pass the class.  It'e especially funny when several of the students have taken the exact same class as an online course through a sister university and have had no problems passing it with an 80% or higher average.  Best I can figure is that the department is using it as a way to raise their tuition and student numbers to justify budgets since Calc I is required for most degree programs.

[Donut417]

Just now, WMGroomAK said:

Funny deal is, the Math Department t my local university has set the Calc I bar so high that they routinely fail 40 to 50% of their students and on average, most of the students have to take it 3 to 4 times to actually pass the class.  It'e especially funny when several of the students have taken the exact same class as an online course through a sister university and have had no problems passing it with an 80% or higher average.  Best I can figure is that the department is using it as a way to raise their tuition and student numbers to justify budgets since Calc I is required for most degree programs.

This is the reason I took accounting at a Local Community college rather than my university. Because passing it a Eastern is nearly impossible with the current professors. Im all for higher standards. But the fact that 40 to 50% dont pass a class has to look bad on the professor as that means they are not getting the knowledge out to the students. Sure some students do take the class seriously. But, if you have to take it 3-4 times that means there is an issue with how its being taught.