Windows 10 now runs on ARM, MS demos Photoshop running on Snapdragon 820

[porina]

8 minutes ago, CtrlAltELITE said:

If intel would be forced to open the licence to x86 up then we could see the likes of ARM coming to the table with something powerful. But for obvious reasons Intel will never let that happen. Unless AMD can bring anything meaningful in the future we are going to see a serious stifling of innovation in the high end CPU market.

Would ARM, or anyone else, want to go x86? Seriously, many have tried in the past. Transmeta, Cyrix, Via to name a few who dabbled in x86. Where are they now? x86's strengths are in relatively higher end areas like laptops and desktops, and they are a declining market. Lower power architectures like ARM are taking over from the bottom up. I'm not saying Intel are going away any time soon, but that's who you'd have to compete against. Even without licence concerns, it is no easy task to even catch up. Maybe there are niche areas, but again, don't hold your breath.

[PocketNerd]

22 minutes ago, CtrlAltELITE said:

Unless AMD can bring anything meaningful in the future we are going to see a serious stifling of innovation in the high end CPU market.

 

Fun Fact: They already do... Using an FX-8350 at work and it's pretty close to the 6700k that's opposite of me in the office.

[LAwLz]

9 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

Fun Fact: They already do... Using an FX-8350 at work and it's pretty close to the 6700k that's opposite of me in the office.

Minesweeper and Facebook doesn't count buddy.

The 6700K crushes the 8350.

[vanished]

13 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

 

Fun Fact: They already do... Using an FX-8350 at work and it's pretty close to the 6700k that's opposite of me in the office.

and I got by on an i3.  Doesn't mean that's the same performance

[CtrlAltELITE]

11 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Minesweeper and Facebook doesn't count buddy.

The 6700K crushes the 8350.

The 6100 crushes the 8350 for most purposes...

 

Sorry too sound entirely dismissive of their offerings but when you operate a 5 year update cycle in a tech industry you are not going to get anywhere. I really do hope zen is all it claims to be but they need to not only release a new up to date chip but keep their flagships updated at a similar rate to their competitors or they will stagnate.

 

As for the x86 argument. It only takes 1 large court to recognise them as a monopoly and demand that Intel drop the x86 patent and that will open the door, personally I can see the EU courts doing it as they always have a boner for tech monopolies. With the door open personally I can see the likes of ARM developing a x86 core, maybe not a good one at first but with the legal barrier broken I could see someone moving into it in the immediate future.

 

Although ultimately I agree with @Porina, x86 is an old and dying standard, it will be interesting to see what the more distant future is going to bring, especially with the recent revelation of a full fat windows OS being developed for an ARM based system. Hell I've played some of the games developed native to the Nvidia Shield (fanboy, I know ) and it's amazing the graphics that can be extracted from such low power ARM/Tegra based arcitecture.

[AlexGoesHigh]

8 minutes ago, CtrlAltELITE said:

The 6100 crushes the 8350 for most purposes...

 

Sorry too sound entirely dismissive of their offerings but when you operate a 5 year update cycle in a tech industry you are not going to get anywhere. I really do hope zen is all it claims to be but they need to not only release a new up to date chip but keep their flagships updated at a similar rate to their competitors or they will stagnate.

 

As for the x86 argument. It only takes 1 large court to recognise them as a monopoly and demand that Intel drop the x86 patent and that will open the door, personally I can see the EU courts doing it as they always have a boner for tech monopolies. With the door open personally I can see the likes of ARM developing a x86 core, maybe not a good one at first but with the legal barrier broken I could see someone moving into it in the immediate future.

 

Although ultimately I agree with @Porina, x86 is an old and dying standard, it will be interesting to see what the more distant future is going to bring, especially with the recent revelation of a full fat windows OS being developed for an ARM based system. Hell I've played some of the games developed native to the Nvidia Shield (fanboy, I know ) and it's amazing the graphics that can be extracted from such low power ARM/Tegra based arcitecture.

Just to correct you a bit on the second paragraph. ARM (the company) doesn't make chips, they design then and license their technology to anyone that can pay, it's the main reason why there's a lot of ARM chips manufacturers like Qualcomm, Samsung, Mediatek and many more and even Intel just recently but it seems they only did it so they could use their fabs to make chips for others.

 

If x86 goes to being open to license to anyone ARM most likely won't buy a license but some of the companies i mention would, even some would have the money ready on the same day the announcement would be made

[CtrlAltELITE]

7 minutes ago, AlexGoesHigh said:

Just to correct you a bit on the second paragraph. ARM (the company) doesn't make chips, they design then and license their technology to anyone that can pay, it's the main reason why there's a lot of ARM chips manufacturers like Qualcomm, Samsung, Mediatek and many more and even Intel just recently but it seems they only did it so they could use their fabs to make chips for others.

 

If x86 goes to being open to license to anyone ARM most likely won't buy a license but some of the companies i mention would, even some would have the money ready on the same day the announcement would be made

 

Oh sorry, my missunderstanding wasn't with the ARM/Qualcomm etc situation it was with how x86 worked , I was under impression the core would have to be designed around it. Thats why i used the term 'core' rather than CPU

[PocketNerd]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Minesweeper and Facebook doesn't count buddy.

The 6700K crushes the 8350.

How about compiling UE4 code and games, does that count?

[vanished]

10 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

How about compiling UE4 code and games, does that count?

I assume that's able to use all 8 "cores" then, in which case I'm not surprised it comes close.  Should be about 9/11^ths the performance.  That said, most things most people do cant' do that, and only have 4 or fewer highly CPU intensive threads.  In that situation, the i7 should dominate due to much higher single-threaded performance.

[PocketNerd]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I assume that's able to use all 8 "cores" then, in which case I'm not surprised it comes close.  Should be about 9/11^ths the performance.  That said, most things most people do cant' do that, and only have 4 or fewer highly CPU intensive threads.  In that situation, the i7 should dominate due to much higher single-threaded performance.

You'd be right in that it does use all cores, which ultimately brings the point of just because it doesn't work for your use-case doesn't mean it isn't useful for others. Also, most things people do that don't aren't going to be using or needing the full power of an i7 anyway.

I will agree with the single-core performance gap though, hoping Zen closes it for the sake of innovation and competition.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITEJET FUEL

I knew someone was going to make that joke as I wrote it but I decided to stand my ground and put in the numbers that made sense

[AlexGoesHigh]

1 minute ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITEJET FUEL

5/7

[RagnarokDel]

2 hours ago, CtrlAltELITE said:

Lol

I mean, assuming Zen's decent.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, PocketNerd said:

How about compiling UE4 code and games, does that count?

Even for that, which is a best case scenario for the 8350, the 6700K should still be faster.

 

A quick google and looking at some Linux compiling benchmark shows that the 8350 is about 10% slower. So "crushing" is not the right word (I thought the difference would be ~20%), but there is a pretty significant difference still.

[PocketNerd]

20 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Even for that, which is a best case scenario for the 8350, the 6700K should still be faster.

 

A quick google and looking at some Linux compiling benchmark shows that the 8350 is about 10% slower. So "crushing" is not the right word (I thought the difference would be ~20%), but there is a pretty significant difference still.

Oh I can agree with you there, i7 is still faster, the claim was that AMD didn't have anything competitive right now. And I'd argue that 10% is pretty damn competitive.

[Zodiark1593]

7 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

Buy AMD next time you get a PC.

Not counting unreleased products, there is currently no substitute if single thread performance is what you need, that is, unless one were willing to eat a heavy performance penalty. 

[RagnarokDel]

17 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Not counting unreleased products, there is currently no substitute if single thread performance is what you need, that is, unless one were willing to eat a heavy performance penalty. 

Right, I understand. I'm just saying we dont have anybody else then us to blame but ourselves if AMD goes under (doesnt look likely with recent numbers)

 

I was in the camp of snobbing AMD with Intel and Nvidia for years. I switched to red team for the 7990 and so far, I dont regret it. I'm waiting for Zen to come out for my new rig, hopefully we get something that competes with Intel enough. Everyone wins when there's competition, if that 8 C/16T delivers, you can bet your ass the 6900k is going to drop in price massively. I also love the fact that the Zen chips wont have onboard graphics for the overclockable ones.

[Zodiark1593]

4 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

Right, I understand. I'm just saying we dont have anybody else then us to blame but ourselves if AMD goes under (doesnt look likely with recent numbers)

 

I was in the camp of snobbing AMD with Intel and Nvidia for years. I switched to red team for the 7990 and so far, I dont regret it. I'm waiting for Zen to come out for my new rig, hopefully we get something that competes with Intel enough. Everyone wins when there's competition, if that 8 C/16T delivers, you can bet your ass the 6900k is going to drop in price massively.

Were it not for the fact that an application I was using required CUDA, it would be certain that an AMD card would reside within my system as well. Objectively, their cards are virtual equals to the green rivals. The same cannot be said for the CPU's though. 

 

Even if Zen is a hit, It is about a year and some change too late for me to consider an AMD platform though. I tend to keep my systems for a very long time (it's demise, or borderline uselessness) before ever upgrading. 

[alextulu]

On 12/8/2016 at 8:44 AM, Arri said:

ARM is making leaps and bounds in terms of performance while x86 has been stagnant

That's because right now ARM is slower than x86, and it's trying to catch up to it.

[alextulu]

This reminds me of that time, when Itanium processors were a thing, and then failed because emulating x86 programs on them was very slow.

[Belgarathian]

Lost it at Laser Tiger. Hahahahaha

[Mirkoskji]

I was eager to see new utrabook or tablet hardware to come with ARM CPUs. latest Snapdragon chips are near old amd a6-4400m in terms of raw performcances. It is strange I have not seen anything, even among chromebooks, with this kind of hardware. I mean, now we have Android nougat which supports split-screen multitask, large touchscreens are common in high end notebooks and power to performance ratio is awesome. Is there a way to efficently convert programs which are natively x86 to the new ARM architecture?

[bcredeur97]

why are the emulating x86/32bit when almost everything is 64 bit nowadays?

 

too hard on the CPU?

[Drak3]

12 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

why are the emulating x86/32bit when almost everything is 64 bit nowadays?

 

too hard on the CPU?

Most software is still either only 32bit, or comes in 32bit and 64bit flavors.

The only reason 64bit has become predominant in the consumer PC market as early as it did was because of growing RAM needs from Windows and some 32bit software made the additional addressable RAM a necessity.

The only reason it's becoming predominant in the smartphone market is the myth that the new phones are more capable due to it (they aren't if they have 4GB or less).

[bcredeur97]

18 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Most software is still either only 32bit, or comes in 32bit and 64bit flavors.

The only reason 64bit has become predominant in the consumer PC market as early as it did was because of growing RAM needs from Windows and some 32bit software made the additional addressable RAM a necessity.

The only reason it's becoming predominant in the smartphone market is the myth that the new phones are more capable due to it (they aren't if they have 4GB or less).

While I agree with you, if windows on ARM chips becomes a thing then the extra RAM may very well be needed as windows by itself uses a good bit compared to a mobile OS.. plus you know having it ready for the future isn't such a bad idea