[RUMOUR] AMD's Zen CPU rumoured to compete with high end intel for $300

[That Norwegian Guy]

1 hour ago, Space Reptile said:

I tempt to not ignore/block/ban people until they get hostile or are just plain assholes , give everyone a fair chance

I agree. Just saying, after a few years of rolling my eyes at one person though I get fed up. I don't want my eyes to get stuck back there 

 

And misinformation is my #1 least tolerated posting pattern on LTT, just ahead of militant fanboyism.

[Prysin]

2 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

I can. Care to explain what your standard of proof is, because it certainly wouldn't hold up to any decent logician.

i would be bloody careful asking a question like that given your track record. I think @MageTank would agree

[MageTank]

Just now, Prysin said:

i would be bloody careful asking a question like that given your track record. I think @MageTank would agree

I've already shown this entire forum Patrick's half-handed attempts at "logical arguments". To go any further would be inhumane at this point. He still thinks he "wins" every single time he speaks to me, but he always limps away with empty excuses as to why he can't produce any of the information I ask for. All of his sources are hearsay, and would never hold up in a court of law. Notice how he still pulls numbers out of thin air, and can't produce any source (as per usual when it comes to him)? 

 

I've sufficiently proved him wrong. He knows this, but will never admit it. The entire forum knows it, and its why he is no longer taken seriously. If he wants to start rebuilding that ego of his, he needs to take a hit for once, and admit he is wrong. Either way, he will know in a few months when Kaby releases, and I force him to digest that information in front of an audience.

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

I've already shown this entire forum Patrick's half-handed attempts at "logical arguments". To go any further would be inhumane at this point. He still thinks he "wins" every single time he speaks to me, but he always limps away with empty excuses as to why he can't produce any of the information I ask for. All of his sources are hearsay, and would never hold up in a court of law. Notice how he still pulls numbers out of thin air, and can't produce any source (as per usual when it comes to him)? 

 

I've sufficiently proved him wrong. He knows this, but will never admit it. The entire forum knows it, and its why he is no longer taken seriously. If he wants to start rebuilding that ego of his, he needs to take a hit for once, and admit he is wrong. Either way, he will know in a few months when Kaby releases, and I force him to digest that information in front of an audience.

i'm still waiting for GT4e to kick the ass of a 950

[MageTank]

3 minutes ago, Prysin said:

i'm still waiting for GT4e to kick the ass of a 950

Or for the Iris Pro 6200 to beat the GTX 750 Ti? Or for Jim Keller to join Intel? Dresdenboy might not have been inaccurate in his 6 years of AMD leaks, but Patrick has yet to be accurate in ANY of his Intel leaks, lol. 

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

Or for the Iris Pro 6200 to beat the GTX 750 Ti? Or for Jim Keller to join Intel? Dresdenboy might not have been inaccurate in his 6 years of AMD leaks, but Patrick has yet to be accurate in ANY of his Intel leaks, lol. 

Heck, the 6200 doesnt even beat the XBOX or PS4 (which he also claimed it would)

[Joshe343]

I have no doubt in my mind that AMD will compete with current mid-range Intel CPU's but they won't come near anything Intel has on the higher-end of the spectrum. Especially not for $300.

[MageTank]

Just now, Prysin said:

Heck, the 6200 doesnt even beat the XBOX or PS4 (which he also claimed it would)

My brother has the Dell XPS 13 with the Iris Pro 540, which is basically the same GPU (Skylake GT3e vs Broadwell GT3e) and that thing struggles to hold 60fps in Overwatch without dipping hard. In real AAA titles, you might as well give up. 

[Prysin]

Just now, MageTank said:

My brother has the Dell XPS 13 with the Iris Pro 540, which is basically the same GPU (Skylake GT3e vs Broadwell GT3e) and that thing struggles to hold 60fps in Overwatch without dipping hard. In real AAA titles, you might as well give up. 

i know.

 

The only hope i got for iGPS is the next ZEN high end A10 or A12... those will have the power to match a 950.

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

i know.

 

The only hope i got for iGPS is the next ZEN high end A10 or A12... those will have the power to match a 950.

Combine AMD's powerful APU's with the possibility of having SMT, and it paints a very pretty picture for future laptops. Imagine having a 4c/8t SKU with an iGPU that is as powerful as the GTX 950. You have yourself a very nice gaming APU that will handle most MOBA's and competitive shooters with ease.

 

I know I've said SMT isn't magic, but it does help with minimum framerates quite a bit in certain titles. Oh, and DDR4 will also be a boon when it comes to memory bandwidth for these things. If they let us overclock the ram as much as we can on Intel SKU's, I can see APU's doing a nice job this time around.

[Carclis]

15 hours ago, TheRandomness said:

You're like a person out of the WCCFTech comments section. You appear on every controversial thread and slam your viewpoint into everyone's face. 

Zen will have tremendous performance. It will make AMD great again.

[Prysin]

3 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Combine AMD's powerful APU's with the possibility of having SMT, and it paints a very pretty picture for future laptops. Imagine having a 4c/8t SKU with an iGPU that is as powerful as the GTX 950. You have yourself a very nice gaming APU that will handle most MOBA's and competitive shooters with ease.

 

I know I've said SMT isn't magic, but it does help with minimum framerates quite a bit in certain titles. Oh, and DDR4 will also be a boon when it comes to memory bandwidth for these things. If they let us overclock the ram as much as we can on Intel SKU's, I can see APU's doing a nice job this time around.

sadly, given the direction of laptops, any such product will be totally ruined by the moronic quest for thinner devices. It would require a lot of cooling, but it would be put in a piece of shit plastic and metal box with a heatsink the size of a dime being blown on by a asthmatic fan.

[MageTank]

Just now, Prysin said:

sadly, given the direction of laptops, any such product will be totally ruined by the moronic quest for thinner devices. It would require a lot of cooling, but it would be put in a piece of shit plastic and metal box with a heatsink the size of a dime being blown on by a asthmatic fan.

Would depend on the TDP of the entire package. You don't need super high clock speeds. If it matches Haswell IPC, give me a 3ghz 4c/8t SKU with a decent iGPU, and it will be more than enough. I game on a 2c/4t Broadwell i5 with a GT940m in it. That things all-core boost is only 2.7ghz, and plays my games just fine. Would be nice to see laptop manufacturers using more aggressive thermal compounds. I put CLU on my brothers XPS13 (bare die) and dropped his temps by 13C under XTU load. I have a buddy with the Skullcanyon NUC (all-core boost of 3.2ghz, iris pro 580) and he put CLU on that thing, and not only did he negate the throttling everyone else had with that thing, he was able to overclock on top of it with XTU. 

 

I understand why they don't do it though. It makes it extremely difficult for the user to service it themselves once you do that. You get even a speck of CLU on a gold contact on the board, and you are basically done for. It does not play well with other circuitry. 

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

Would depend on the TDP of the entire package. You don't need super high clock speeds. If it matches Haswell IPC, give me a 3ghz 4c/8t SKU with a decent iGPU, and it will be more than enough. I game on a 2c/4t Broadwell i5 with a GT940m in it. That things all-core boost is only 2.7ghz, and plays my games just fine. Would be nice to see laptop manufacturers using more aggressive thermal compounds. I put CLU on my brothers XPS13 (bare die) and dropped his temps by 13C under XTU load. I have a buddy with the Skullcanyon NUC (all-core boost of 3.2ghz, iris pro 580) and he put CLU on that thing, and not only did he negate the throttling everyone else had with that thing, he was able to overclock on top of it with XTU. 

 

I understand why they don't do it though. It makes it extremely difficult for the user to service it themselves once you do that. You get even a speck of CLU on a gold contact on the board, and you are basically done for. It does not play well with other circuitry. 

honestly, iv'e seen proof of laptops with ULV i5s throttling under 4k streaming.... which shouldnt be that taxing.

[Dash Lambda]

The lowest I'd ever hope for them to price a modern 8-core is $500, and that's a BIG hope.

Speculation like this is unproductive and harmful, because if people expect an unrealistic price they will gawk at a good one. I hope AMD gets Zen out soon before unfounded rumors like this do too much damage.

[Sreno1]

So is the only benefit of Kabylake better pricing and higher clock speeds?

[Prysin]

58 minutes ago, Sreno1 said:

So is the only benefit of Kabylake better pricing and higher clock speeds?

better pricing?
no, opposite. ALL kabylake parts will be 10-15$ more expensive then their Skylake counterparts.

 

As an example

a Skylake i7 6700k MSRP is 352$

Kaby lake i7 7700k MSRP is 362$

 

there won't be better pricing. Kaby lake will be more expensive for similar products.

[MageTank]

1 hour ago, Sreno1 said:

So is the only benefit of Kabylake better pricing and higher clock speeds?

Better chipset features, such as native thunderbolt 3, Intel Optane, USB 3.1 Gen2, and HDCP 2.2 support. There are also rumors of Kaby's IHS being soldered to the die, which should help with thermals. This is unconfirmed, but if true, would be a pretty nice boon for overclockers and ITX enthusiasts, as less heat is a good thing. Some people pay upwards of $50 to get a delid, and this will serve the same purpose.

 

As for the higher clock speeds, the leaks that we have seen, show that yes, the base clock speeds have improved, but the manual overclocks have not really changed. They still hit the same limitations in clock speed that we've seen with the last several generation CPU's. That being said, we only have a few samples, so we can't extrapolate perfectly accurate data from that. Time will tell once they are officially released, and binned by overclockers.

 

In the desktop world, Kaby is not impressive at all. Where it will likely shine, is the mobile markets, where TDP is the biggest limitation. Achieving higher clock speeds at the same power envelope is great for mobile SKU's, as it essentially translates to free performance. Mostly due to the fact that the vast majority of mobile SKU's prevent overclocking of any kind (only boost settings, and even then, fairly limited at that). Expect zero (not even 1%) difference in IPC when comparing Kaby to Skylake. Nothing has changed in that regard to warrant an increase in IPC. See my argument with Patrick above for evidence to support that claim. 

[Sreno1]

28 minutes ago, MageTank said:

...

How do they plan on getting people to buy a glorified 6700k for $350?

[MageTank]

7 minutes ago, Sreno1 said:

How do they plan on getting people to buy a glorified 6700k for $350?

It won't appeal to people that already own Skylake SKU's (unless you are upgrading from an i3 or i5 to an i7). If you already own a 6700k, you will likely not be buying a 7700k unless you are @Lays and find one binned at 5.1ghz, and need that extra 100mhz to stick it to the man on hwbot. 

 

If however, you don't already have Skylake, and are looking for a platform upgrade, Kaby is not a bad choice. It has everything Skylake has to offer, while also adding in better native chipset features (listed in my previous post). Not only that, but even if you are not an overclocking enthusiast, it's stock clock speeds have been boosted quite a bit on their lower SKU's to make it a great budget option. The rumor regarding the soldered IHS, if true, will also be nice, even if it comes with a slight price premium. As mentioned before, people will pay third party sources upwards of $50 to delid their chips for them. Even DIY delids come at a price, with CLU costing $10-$15 a tube (depending on location and website) not to mention the other materials if you plan on doing it right (Acetone to clean substrate and glue crust, clear coat nail polish to cover gold contacts as a safety precaution, vice/razor blade/delid tool to actually perform the delid, etc). Having the IHS be soldered by default not only saves the user money in the end, but also removes the risk of them damaging their chip in the process of a delid while providing similar thermal benefits of a delid. 

 

At the end of the day, it depends on what is available at the time, and at the right price. If you live near a Microcenter, you can get a 6700k right now (until December 4th) for $260. This will be a better deal compared to a 7700k period. However, once Kaby releases, and the price difference between the two is say, only $20, the 7700k might be the better option at that given point in time, due to the features and potential thermal improvements overall. Sometimes, it's not always black and white, and the time of day (and price during that time) changes which option is better. 

[Doobeedoo]

Yeah, right, sure it will be priced as such. Maybe 3 times like that potentially. Wouldn't make sense otherwise if it's performance is up to par, price will be close too.

[Mr.Meerkat]

Oh gawd, what did I just read? The world's longest flame war?  

 

7 hours ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

And misinformation is my #1 least tolerated posting pattern on LTT, just ahead of militant fanboyism.

Hmmmm...do I really hate misinformed people more than Intel and Nvidia Fanboys? Hard to say really  

[patrickjp93]

5 hours ago, Prysin said:

Heck, the 6200 doesnt even beat the XBOX or PS4 (which he also claimed it would)

Never claimed that.

[Prysin]

2 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Never claimed that.

good morning patrick.

maybe i am wrong, but i am fairly sure it was you who claimed it. But who cares about being right or wrong, right?

[VerticalDiscussions]

29 minutes ago, Prysin said:

-snip-

Cant have something universally true while being false :D.

 

Like when i go to the bathroom, close the door, and do stuff. Cant be wrong about that, or else ill mistake a bedroom for the bathroom!