Kaspersky Labs files anti-competitive complaints against Microsoft for Windows Defender

[sazrocks]

How is Microsoft competing with them? It's not like Microsoft gets anything from you using Windows defender.

[SubTract]

Honestly the fact that an internet security company is complaining about updates coming to fast is pathetic. Especially when those updates include security patches.
To me this is just another thing to add to the list of why people shouldn't use kaspersky.
 

[AresKrieger]

1 hour ago, Dabombinable said:

I myself can't even update Windows 7 past SP1, because no matter what update packs are installed, it takes over 24 hours to check for them, only to tell me that the failed. And that is across 3 different computers, with 4 entirely different versions of Windows 7 tried on them. 

You can fix your issue if you want all you have to do is manually download update KB3135445 and install it

[Guest Darth Revan]

1 hour ago, Dabombinable said:

I myself can't even update Windows 7 past SP1, because no matter what update packs are installed, it takes over 24 hours to check for them, only to tell me that the failed. And that is across 3 different computers, with 4 entirely different versions of Windows 7 tried on them. 

I had the exact same problem myself on totally different machines. I tried multiple times and every single time it checked for updates for hours and either it kept checking or it downloaded a few updates then it give up. So eventually I gave up.

@AresKrieger I tried that update. Did nothing whatsoever.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Darth Revan

[captain_to_fire]

Windows Defender is good but not as good as the likes of Kaspersky and Bitdefender especially in catching zero-day malware and stopping ransomware. But the thing is, Windows Defender is free.

https://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/avc_factsheet2016_09.pdf

 

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

You can fix your issue if you want all you have to do is manually download update KB3135445 and install it

That does nothing. On 1x Australian copy of Windows 7 Pro 64bit SP1, 2x US Windows 7 Pro 64bit SP1, and 1x Windows 7 Home 64bit, Windows updates just don't work-regarless of the internet connection and hardware. My grandmother's copy of Windows 7 Home 32bit is the only one without any update issues.

[AresKrieger]

5 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

That does nothing. On 1x Australian copy of Windows 7 Pro 64bit SP1, 2x US Windows 7 Pro 64bit SP1, and 1x Windows 7 Home 64bit, Windows updates just don't work-regarless of the internet connection and hardware. My grandmother's copy of Windows 7 Home 32bit is the only one without any update issues.

Huh, well it was worth a shot to give you the advice as it worked on my 3 systems that ran into the issue, though I had to disable the windows updater run the file I downloaded from MS's site then turn updates back on and restart, but it was on "special" ultimate edition copies

 

Oh well too bad I couldn't help.

[Delicieuxz]

There are a lot of anti-competitive tactics being employed in Windows 10. Windows 10 is basically forceware, that tries to override a lot of what an individual may want, to produce the setup that generates the greatest usage of Microsoft products, and the most data collection for Microsoft.

 

Windows 10 is a lot less of an OS for people than previous Windows versions were, and is much more of a deliberate data-harvesting environment that uses OS features to get people to do things that produces data. The difference in the intention of the software has become inverted, from being for the sake of being good for the customer, to being for the sake of catering to Microsoft. And that changes a whole lot about how the OS operates, how enjoyable it is to use, and how convenient it is to use.

 

I hope that many more companies file anti-competitive lawsuits against Microsoft, and that there also be class-action lawsuits against Microsoft. They are not only deserved, but they are needed to bring Microsoft back into line.

 

However, Microsoft has banked their future profit forecasts on their data collection, and the expectation that they can indiscriminately take what they want from people, and so successful lawsuits against Microsoft would send the company reeling - which it probably already is, internally, due to the uptake of Windows 10 and acceptance of Microsoft's data collection not going the way Microsoft anticipated.

[Dabombinable]

7 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Huh, well it was worth a shot to give you the advice as it worked on my 3 systems that ran into the issue, though I had to disable the windows updater run the file I downloaded from MS's site then turn updates back on and restart, but it was on "special" ultimate edition copies

 

Oh well too bad I couldn't help.

I've pretty much not noticing any differernt between an updated copy of Windows 7, and one without updates. Except my laptops don't have all 4GB of their RAM used up, and all 4 cores every single time they update (Windows update uses an abonrmal amount of resources-even games classed as intensive don't load it as much).

[Hawx]

7 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

There are a lot of anti-competitive tactics being employed in Windows 10. Windows 10 is basically forceware, that tries to override everything an individual may want to produce the setup that generates the greatest usage of Microsoft products, and the most data collection for Microsoft. It's less of an OS for people, and more of a data-harvesting environment, that uses semi-attractive features to get people to do things that produces data.

TIL WIndows 10 can physically force me to click on "Edge" instead of "Chrome". I'm really unsure how you manage to come up with this stuff. There's very little difference in normal computing routine between W7, W8 and W10. Going from 8.1 to 10 just feels like the same windows with a reskin.

 

Staying on topic, I've used Kaspersky for around 6 years and I do notice they take around 1 month to release a compatibility patch for a new windows release. Usually you're still protected, but some functionality breaks in the process. 

 

Specifically, the anniversary update broke KIS's remote management tools, safe money (application sandbox when using a banking site), and a couple parts of the interface.

[Delicieuxz]

1 hour ago, Hawx said:

TIL WIndows 10 can physically force me to click on "Edge" instead of "Chrome". I'm really unsure how you manage to come up with this stuff.

Actually, you just came up with that.

[Hawx]

27 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

That tries to override everything an individual may want to produce the setup that generates the greatest usage of Microsoft products, and the most data collection for Microsoft.

 

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

Actually, you just came up with that. It's amazing how people trying to fanboy the shit out of something can parade so much stupidity and think it's a comment on anyone other than themselves.

W10 hasn't tried to force me to use any application I didn't want to use. In general my computing activity is identical to W8. You're attempting to say otherwise.

 

So, do tell me how W10 is constantly trying to "override everything" I want to do? 

[Delicieuxz]

Double-post glitch.

[Delicieuxz]

15 minutes ago, Hawx said:

W10 hasn't tried to force me to use any application I didn't want to use. In general my computing activity is identical to W8. You're attempting to say otherwise.

 

So, do tell me how W10 is constantly trying to "override everything" I want to do? 

Resetting file associations, preventing the installation of certain programs, forced updates and update-times, lack of ability to permanently disable Windows Defender in Home edition, automatically removing some programs after updates, and various anti-competitive measures such as the one mentioned in this thread's OP are some pretty notable ways in which Microsoft makes Windows 10 attempt to override people's own interests and preferences.

 

Quote

TIL WIndows 10 can physically force me to click on "Edge" instead of "Chrome".

Also, Windows 10 does actually try to force people to use Edge instead of Chrome, by disallowing Chrome to be set as the default app for various browser-based functions, such as opening offline URLs (unless that changed with the Anniversary Update, though I wouldn't bet on it).

[zMeul]

7 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Saying what changed between released updates, security fixes and so on seems logical, but between previews? Not really, because things are constantly changing.

 

Yup, there are a lot of problems showing up, camera, sound and the list goes on, but as an insider, you accepted all of those. Those bugs getting released to all users is terrible, and they're doing this. I have a laptop with radeon graphics that I can't really remove a bugged driver that is delivered by Windows Update, even when disabling driver updates, rolling back to a functional one Windows update reinstalls it everytime. How didn't they fixed it yet? Have no idea.

they're not preview builds, they are development build

that's what the whole idea behind the insider program was, for people to help (outsource) developing and testing of Windows 10, that's why the sacked the entire beta testing division

[Sidiox]

I do very strongly agree that Windows should warn against possible incompatibilities before upgrading and defer an upgrade if something is detected. My windows 10 install keeps trying to upgrade but crashes because of an asus driver which I need. It's really pissing me off 

[jagdtigger]

4 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Resetting file associations, preventing the installation of certain programs, forced updates and update-times, lack of ability to permanently disable Windows Defender in Home edition, automatically removing some programs after updates, and various anti-competitive measures such as the one mentioned in this thread's OP are some pretty notable ways in which Microsoft makes Windows 10 attempt to override people's own interests and preferences.

 

Also, Windows 10 does actually try to force people to use Edge instead of Chrome, by disallowing Chrome to be set as the default app for various browser-based functions, such as opening offline URLs (unless that changed with the Anniversary Update, though I wouldn't bet on it).

You can quickly solve the defender problem, boot live linux and delete the defender folder(the same can be done with cortana and the modern shitty apps).

[Ryujin2003]

16 hours ago, Arty said:

NOT updating windows is probably more of a risk the not updating the anti virus....

TBH, your not gonna a virus if your not clicking stupidly on the internet....

Dude,  just get a MacBook,  they can't get viruses...

 

But seriously,  you're probably right.  leaving known W10 vulnerabilities on your PC is way worse than anything else,  especially if you're antivirus and AntiMalware aren't going to protect you from these things.

[Sauron]

It seems like a reasonable complaint - sure, there's the insider program, but it may still not give them enough time. The windows defender competition is actually a direct consequence of this, Microsoft has a clear advantage when it comes to having builds early.

 

Another thing about the insider program is that while it does provide middle of the road builds it doesn't provide retail builds much in advance compared to the "normal" schedule. There may or may not be merit to Kaspersky's claims, it's hard to say without detailed analysis of their business and Microsoft's release patterns.

15 hours ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

A security team is complaining about fast updates?

 

Bitch please

They're complaining about not getting the updates early, or more specifically not at the same time as the Windows Defender team. Secondly, not all updates are about security, and they may introduce new features that could open the door on new vulnerabilities.