Star Citizen Single-Player Delayed Indefinitely

[Misanthrope]

4 minutes ago, Terodius said:

I was satisfied with the product I got for every campaign I backed (that's 13) and everybody else I know...

Sorry to cut you off right here, but I don't care about anecdotal evidence.

[Juanitology]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Sorry to cut you off right here, but I don't care about anecdotal evidence.

Anecdotal evidence? lol what are you a lawyer?

[Misanthrope]

3 minutes ago, Terodius said:

Anecdotal evidence? lol what are you a lawyer?

Not sure if it's used as a legal term I use it when it comes to statistics: I care about statistics not your specific experiences. Any specific experience is meaningless statistically and is dismissed as an argument when discussing things: if I say "I have these studies showing that x happened" it's meaningless for you to say "But X didn't happen to me!" (or in your case, a measly 13 projects out of thousands that have been made and/or are currently available) since you are not presenting a study, you're presenting your very narrow perspective that's also afected by things like confirmation bias.

[Doobeedoo]

Well it will come when is ready and be as good as it can be so.

I'm interested in multiplayer too and can't wait to see it once it releases.

[Juanitology]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

 I care about statistics not your specific experiences.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kickstarter+statistics

[Misanthrope]

3 minutes ago, Terodius said:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kickstarter+statistics

Results:

 

Less Than a Third of Crowdfunding Campaigns Reach Their Goals

 

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/269663

 

Quote

Overwhelmingly, crowdfunding campaigns do not meet their fundraising goals. Between 69 and 89 percent of projects -- depending on the platform -- fail to reach their targets, according to a new report.

 

It's not a "gamble" it's a crap shoot, a shot in the dark if you consider than many more projects come everyday the chances of you picking a winner today are even less.

[The Benjamins]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Not sure if it's used as a legal term I use it when it comes to statistics: I care about statistics not your specific experiences. Any specific experience is meaningless statistically and is dismissed as an argument when discussing things: if I say "I have these studies showing that x happened" it's meaningless for you to say "But X didn't happen to me!" (or in your case, a measly 13 projects out of thousands that have been made and/or are currently available) since you are not presenting a study, you're presenting your very narrow perspective that's also afected by things like confirmation bias.

People need to learn that backing/kickstarting like sites are investment platforms, It is up to the investor to determine if it is worth the risk. It is a very simple concept but people act like its a pre-order platform.

[Juanitology]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Results:

 

Less Than a Third of Crowdfunding Campaigns Reach Their Goals

 

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/269663

 

 

It's not a "gamble" it's a crap shoot, a shot in the dark if you consider than many more projects come everyday the chances of you picking a winner today are even less.

Just for clarification, what that means is that they don't raise enough money, not that they don't fulfill the promises they make after they reach their funding goal. 

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, The Benjamins said:

People need to learn that backing/kickstarting like sites are investment platforms, It is up to the investor to determine if it is worth the risk. It is a very simple concept but people act like its a pre-order platform.

Incorrect: Investment platforms legally entitle you to a return on your investment if the project/company/whatever succeed. Crowd funding entitle you to fuck all, not even the product they give you a finished product out of their own good will but nothing forces them to do so you just give them free money no strings attached.

[Juanitology]

The platform itself (kickstarter/indiegogo) only facilitates contact and collection of money between the project manager and the backers, they have nothing to do with the project itself. It's up to us backers to do our research and look into the project properly, not just their marketing video, and then make our decision on whether we think this project is likely to succeed or not. I've seen projects I loved but didn't back because I didn't think they would succeed. 

[PlayStation 2]

Who's ready for No Man's Sky Redux?

[Bouzoo]

41 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

-snip-

For most people, it's about supporting a project they believe in, not trying just to get something in return imo. 

While we're at legit investors, many people/companies/banks that have invested hundreds of times get burn from time to time. Same how some people bought Apple/MS shares in the 70s/80s. They might have easily gone down. It's the same thing when you think about it. It's a risk.

[Misanthrope]

Right and actual investments are risks but you do have both legal recourse and cut of the profits. 

 

If someone approaches me and says "I want to share with you a business idea I have" and I'm interested why should I agree if he says "No I don't want to share my returns with you, give me the money as a gift and I'll give you something in return if I both succeed and feel like it" most people would laugh on your face and leave. 

 

Yet you're legitimizing this exact scams under the name of nerdy obsessions. That's ridiculous, the entire concept of giving people something for nothing its fucking bullshit. 

[The Benjamins]

10 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Incorrect: Investment platforms legally entitle you to a return on your investment if the project/company/whatever succeed. Crowd funding entitle you to fuck all, not even the product they give you a finished product out of their own good will but nothing forces them to do so you just give them free money no strings attached.

they are legally obligated to obey the agreement. and how is it not a investment, you pay money to help them developed a product and in successful you get what was agreed upon.

[Misanthrope]

2 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

For most people, it's about supporting a project they believe in, not trying to get something in return imo. 

While we're at legit investors, many people/companies/banks that have invested hundreds of times get burn from time to time. Same how some people bought Apple/MS shares in the 70s/80s. They might have easily gone down. It's the same thing when you think about it. It's a risk.

Investors can support projects they believe in and risk their money to help a vision come to fruition. But as a society we recognize that said trust should be rewarded with a cut of the profits. 

 

There's nothing stopping a crowd funding campaign to offer a small percentage of profits or a handful of shares on the company. Not even very substantial but something that says "thank you for believing in us"  instead  of the current "fuck you nerd go wear this t-shirt while I get rich thanks to your money" 

[Misanthrope]

5 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

they are legally obligated to obey the agreement. and how is it not a investment, you pay money to help them developed a product and in successful you get what was agreed upon.

We just recently got legal precedent but not nearly sufficient to call that a certainty: it's an unregulated money donation not a legally binding obligation. 

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

We just recently got legal precedent but not nearly sufficient to call that a certainty: it's an unregulated money donation not a legally binding obligation. 

Can you link a source, It defiantly shouldn't be considered a donation. 

[Juanitology]

8 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

There's nothing stopping a crowd funding campaign to offer a small percentage of profits or a handful of shares on the company. Not even very substantial but something that says "thank you for believing in us"  instead  of the current "fuck you nerd go wear this t-shirt while I get rich thanks to your money" 

They're giving you a product you want at or close to cost price, that's the reward. You're free to not participate in the system if you don't like it

[Misanthrope]

12 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

Can you link a source, It defiantly shouldn't be considered a donation. 

Until very recently no company was allowed to have actual investors it was considered a sort of charity. Recently (as recently as may 2016 I believe) the JOBS act in the US has opened the door to something called equity crowdfunding (meaning there is some returns for the investments) where small businesses with very relaxed requirements can have crowdfunding investors for up to one million bucks:

 

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/252315

 

Before that kickstarter, indiegogo, etc. Explicity stated in their terms of service that they do not mediate disputes between backers and companies at all.

[Misanthrope]

28 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

they are legally obligated to obey the agreement. and how is it not a investment, you pay money to help them developed a product and in successful you get what was agreed upon.

Where is the agreement? Did you signed? Or just kickstarter? Cause they say it's not an agreement and that they won't mediate at all on their terms and conditions and on their faq

 

Quote

What do backers get in return?

Backers that support a project on Kickstarter get an inside look at the creative process, and help that project come to life. They also get to choose from a variety of unique rewards offered by the project creator. Rewards vary from project to project, but often include a copy of what is being produced (CD, DVD, book, etc.) or an experience unique to the project.

 

Project creators keep 100% ownership of their work, and Kickstarter cannot be used to offer equity, financial returns, or to solicit loans.

https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics?ref=footer

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer  (Read #6)

[Juanitology]

I think it'd be cool if kickstarter had the option for projects to offer equity to backers on higher level pledges, but that could probably get very messy legally speaking.

[elkenrod]

40 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Who's ready for No Man's Sky Redux?

 

The way this can be avoided is to "release it when it's ready".

 

The problem is that this is going to take several more years.  All the while, you're going to have people arguing on forums about whether the game is a "SCAM" or not.  I'm allergic to hyperbole, and there's a lot of if coming both advocates of the game, and its critics.

 

Fortunately for Chris Roberts and company, I don't think the money is ever going to run out.  They can release new demos and reinvigorate the public's excitement for the game "indefinitely".  I think there are only two real threats to this game.  First, is adhering to a hard release date.  Second, another developer showing up and offering similar content along with a hard release date.  Some people might think that "Star Citizen is in the class of its own, there's nothing else like it".  Be assured that other companies have taken note of what's been going on surrounding the hype and money this game has generated.  One or two of them might look to make a move and capitalize on this new template.

[The Benjamins]

5 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Where is the agreement? Did you signed? Or just kickstarter? Cause they say it's not an agreement and that they won't mediate at all on their terms and conditions and on their faq

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics?ref=footer

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer  (Read #6)

I never said kickstarter is responsible.

Quote

Project creators keep 100% ownership of their work, and Kickstarter cannot be used to offer equity, financial returns, or to solicit loans.

I never said investors would get any of that. but if they are successful they should be obligated to give you the reward tied to your investment.

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, The Benjamins said:

I never said kickstarter is responsible.

I never said investors would get any of that. but if they are successful they should be obligated to give you the reward tied to your investment.

An investor is very different than someone who just gives money. Investor implies a legally binding contract with responsabilities for the receptors of said investment.

 

Why do you think this sites go out of their ways to call the people donating money "backers"? I honestly can't tell if you just don't realize and use the term colloquially but this has been explained thoroughly I consider this asked and answered.

[Jacklando]

I bought one of the ships  last year and forgot about it lol